Why do uneducated Filipinos call white men Joe?

[loyaltubist]

I've been living in the Philippines for almost two years and people who have never seen white people before call white men Joe. I've heard this is because that it comes from G.I. Joe in World War II. But Vietnam vets tell me that Joe was what prostitutes called all their customers in Saigon and Manila.

Incidentally, black men are never called Joe. White people are considered Americans and vice versa. They have the idea that Barack Obama is the first non American president, not because of the rumor that he was born in Kenya, but rather that he is not white.

Someone needs to come to the Philippines (someone with more clout than me) to say that Americans come in all colors. Even Filipino.

[even sven]

The story I was told was that "Jo" was the reply soldiers would give when prostitutes asked for their names. Since this was a pretty common form of expressing Filipino-American friendship, pretty soon every guy became a "Jo."

The whole "Americans are white" thing is pretty universal. I knew an African-American volunteer in Cameroon who caused a near riot when she was placed with a host family who refused to believe she was not African. Eventually the family calmed down and decided she was just a very dark skinned white person, a notion they maintained during her entire stay despite her numerous explanations.

[Gary T]

I imagine that during WWII, in both Europe and the Pacific virtually all the American forces seen by the residents were white. I can see where "Joe" would be associated both with being an American soldier, sailor, or Marine and with being white.

[Mahaloth]

People can be quite ignorant about foreign countries. I mean, how many people from Rwanada would be shocked to learn how little Americans know about the Hutu and Tutsi tension?

I was definitely surprised, having lived in China and returned, how little people here in the USA know about foreign countries. I mean, people in China obviously don't know a lot about the US, but it is amazing to hear the things I've heard since I've returned.

Stuff I've heard from educated folk in the US. None of these statements were jokes or said out of cruelty:

- Was it difficult to tell your kids apart from one another? I mean, they look so similar to one another.

- Were you afraid you would be arrested if you said the wrong thing?

- Are their vaginas really sideways?*

- Why do they have slanty eyes?

- Konnichiwa! I lived in China, remember.

- Ching, ching, chong, chong, guk!**


* Really. From a guy you would normally call intelligent. He was not joking.

** This was from a person who was high, high up in the educational setting.

[boilercake]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

People can be quite ignorant about foreign countries. I mean, how many people from Rwanada would be shocked to learn how little Americans know about the Hutu and Tutsi tension?

I was definitely surprised, having lived in China and returned, how little people here in the USA know about foreign countries. I mean, people in China obviously don't know a lot about the US, but it is amazing to hear the things I've heard since I've returned.

Stuff I've heard from educated folk in the US. None of these statements were jokes or said out of cruelty:

- Was it difficult to tell your kids apart from one another? I mean, they look so similar to one another.

- Were you afraid you would be arrested if you said the wrong thing?

- Are their vaginas really sideways?*

- Why do they have slanty eyes?

- Konnichiwa! I lived in China, remember.

- Ching, ching, chong, chong, guk!**


* Really. From a guy you would normally call intelligent. He was not joking.

** This was from a person who was high, high up in the educational setting.

Pfft, I call BS, more or less an elitist meme imagined from the mythical ugly american. No "educated" person in the world thinks asian vaginas are slanted.

[bannerrefugee]

Originally Posted by boilercake

Pfft, I call BS, more or less an elitist meme imagined from the mythical ugly american. No "educated" person in the world thinks asian vaginas are slanted.

Obviously they don't have slanted vaginas, now sideways that is another matter.

[ShibbOleth]

What I find interesting with regards the OP is that the first Filipino family I really became acquainted with, all of their kids are named Joe. The son is Joe (Joseph), the oldest daughter is Josephine, the younger daughter is Jocelyn. I think that there might be a couple more, but those are the ones that I know. Can't recall if it's a George Foreman kind of thing or if they just went with a naming theme.

As for Mahaloth's assertion, sounds totally plausible to me, it's not hard to find some real morons out there - and I think anyone over the age of about six that would say most of those things is a moron or was very poorly raised.

[simple homer]

Originally Posted by boilercake

Pfft, I call BS, more or less an elitist meme imagined from the mythical ugly american. No "educated" person in the world thinks asian vaginas are slanted.

I live in China, and when I return home I hear questions similar to the ones that Mahaloth has received.

"ching chong" I have heard that one before

When I was growing up the joke was that an Asian vagina is sideways, and that the farther apart they spread their legs the tighter the vagina becomes.
Sadly, as an adult I have been asked about this also.

People have also asked me if Chinese people all look the same and how can I tell them apart.

As ShibbOleth wrote, there many morons out there.



I have also visited the Philippines many times, and I have heard "Hey Joe"
many times.
It is my understanding that it is just a leftover from the military days and "G.I.Joe".
Blacks can receive the "Hey Joe" also.
Many time I was asked questions such as "Where in America is Germany ? "
Many Filipinos seem to think that every foreigner is an American, or "kano".

[dragoncat]

I just came back from Thailand, and was surprised that:

1) a Thai person herself said "ching, chong," to me as if to indicate that she knew it was our stereotype that Asian languages sound that way.

2) in Thailand, you *can* be arrested for saying the wrong thing, namely insulting the King (or being perceived as doing so). I don't know how much it happens, but I didn't want to take the chance, so I just never spoke about the monarchy.

[ShibbOleth]

Originally Posted by dragoncat

I just came back from Thailand, and was surprised that:

1) a Thai person herself said "ching, chong," to me as if to indicate that she knew it was our stereotype that Asian languages sound that way.

2) in Thailand, you *can* be arrested for saying the wrong thing, namely insulting the King (or being perceived as doing so). I don't know how much it happens, but I didn't want to take the chance, so I just never spoke about the monarchy.

1. When I lived in Thailand, I worked in Chachoengsao province. Thais either find that name amusing or find it terribly amusing when we say the name of that place. I think it sounds "sing-songy" to them. IME, many Thais are easily amused, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

2. Thailand does have a lese majeste law that you'll hear some idiot, usually a drunken Brit, arrested for about 1-2 a year. The King normally (always?) pardons them. The stuff I can recall people getting arrested for was putting up defamatory placards or jumping up and down on an image of the King (which would also be on the money). I've never heard of anyone inadvertently insulting the King and getting arrested - you would typically have to make an all out effort. Some off the cuff remark that you didn't like his hairstyle or something wouldn't do it. Luckily there is not much to actually criticize him on, as far as I've been able to tell he's a very decent man. That's not to say you couldn't get your ass kicked for making a smart ass remark. Thais really love their current King (Bhumipol) and also Rama V (Chulalongkorn). These two seem to be the favorites and the ones you'll see photos or shrines in homes and businesses.

[jjimm]

I got called Joe in Vietnam in the early 90s, soon after it had opened up to tourism. Mainly south of the DMZ (north of it people called me "Ruski" and threw stones at me).

One guy near Da Nang in particular spoke in a wonderful American dialect that I presume had been picked up two decades before. I asked him if there was anything to eat and he said "Lunch? Oh, you want chow? Haul your ass to China Beach, some of the dudes down there they got chow, Joe."

[Hypnagogic Jerk]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

- Were you afraid you would be arrested if you said the wrong thing?

As China is not a democracy, that's not such a stupid question. I suppose it's more liberal today than it was 40 or so years ago, though.

- Why do they have slanty eyes?

I understand that "slanted" or "slanty" eyes is considered a racial insult in English, but the question of why Asians have eyes of a different form than Europeans is an interesting one. Not that you'd be able to answer it just by virtue of living there, though.

[Mahaloth]

Obviously, I should have said "sideways" vagina instead of slanted. I was probably thinking of "slanted" eyes.

Originally Posted by boilercake

Pfft, I call BS, more or less an elitist meme imagined from the mythical ugly american. No "educated" person in the world thinks asian vaginas are slanted.

I know it's hard to believe, but I was asked this once by an average man over the age of 55 and by a young woman who was bout 28 at the time. While I consider their inquiry stupid, they would be considered "educated" in the sense I mean it. More than one university degree(both with at least Masters).

I was shocked, as well.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Hypnagogic Jerk

I understand that "slanted" or "slanty" eyes is considered a racial insult in English, but the question of why Asians have eyes of a different form than Europeans is an interesting one. Not that you'd be able to answer it just by virtue of living there, though.

As a teacher, I accept it if kids ask about "slanty" or "slanted" eyes. I usually just politely tell them that "slanty" is kind of a weird way to say it and some people might be offended. Then, I tell them that it is OK to wonder about differences between races and ask them why our eyes aren't shaped like that.


More than any of the other comments I've heard, I can't believe any educated people would think you can't tell Asian people from one another, like they all really do look exactly the same.

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

- Ching, ching, chong, chong, guk!**

Well, obviously that's culturally insensitive. But how is it ignorant?

More than any of the other comments I've heard, I can't believe any educated people would think you can't tell Asian people from one another, like they all really do look exactly the same.

I understand that there are some scientific studies that show that people of one race often do find it difficult to distinguish unknown people from another race. This was in the context of white witnesses of crimes being very bad at telling apart black people.

[Shot From Guns]

Originally Posted by loyaltubist

Incidentally, black men are never called Joe. White people are considered Americans and vice versa.

Something I learned when I was studying abroad in Japan: 外人 gaijin (a slangy and potentially offensive term for a foreigner, short for 外人 gaikokujin) is almost exclusively applied to white foreigners.

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

More than any of the other comments I've heard, I can't believe any educated people would think you can't tell Asian people from one another, like they all really do look exactly the same.

Different ethnic groups have different distinguishing features. So, to completely make some crap up, say that people whose ancestors come from Region A all have similar noses but varying ears, but people from Region B all have similar ears but varying noses. So to an A who's only used to seeing other A's, all B's look similar, because their "distinguishing feature" is pretty consistent across individuals. But the reverse is true for a B.

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by Shot From Guns

Something I learned when I was studying abroad in Japan: 外人 gaijin (a slangy and potentially offensive term for a foreigner, short for 外人 gaikokujin) is almost exclusively applied to white foreigners.

Several years ago I followed a blog by an English teacher in Japan who was a big black man, and he called himself Gaijin all the time. Can't remember if he ever noted being called that by someone else, although I imagine there's few Japanese who'd be that impolite.

[dragoncat]

Different ethnic groups have different distinguishing features. So, to completely make some crap up, say that people whose ancestors come from Region A all have similar noses but varying ears, but people from Region B all have similar ears but varying noses. So to an A who's only used to seeing other A's, all B's look similar, because their "distinguishing feature" is pretty consistent across individuals. But the reverse is true for a B.

Conversely ... I used to teach an article written by a Chinese man who had moved to the United States. He had been here for some time -- how long, I'm not sure, but probably months -- before he realized that people used hair color to distinguish others. It just wasn't in his repertoire of distinguishing features.

(My apologies, but I can't remember the source or author, so you'll just have to take my word for it unless someone else out there knows it.)

[Bear_Nenno]

"Joe" is still a common term for an American soldier. The term is still used by American soldiers. "Joe bar" is still used to refer to bars where the majority of patronage is American Servicemen. Many (Majority) Americans visiting the Phillipines are American soldiers, probably visiting in-laws or just looking for easy ass. I once heard a statistic on a documentary that something like 90+ percent of Phillipines who immigrate to the United States do so as spouses of US Servicemen. It is no surprise at all that they would call white people "Joe" over there.

And to continue the Hijack about ignorance in other countries:

Today I was told by a very polite Bahamian that she does not like America and will not be going there anymore! She will stick to Panama and New York.

[TurboNuke]

It's pretty disappointing that it's assumed to be racist when white people claim that other races look alike.

A few months ago on NPR I heard of a study that discovered that facial recognition is a learned ability.

Basically, you learn to differentiate faces by viewing the faces that are around you. So a white person that was only exposed to white faces would have a hard time distguishing between asian faces. It's a learned ability so once you are exposed to other faces you learn to distinguish between them.

[TurboNuke]

So I went looking for cites and all I can find is studies saying that people don't recognize the faces of people they feel are socially inferior. I swear I heard the other thing on NPR.

[even sven]

I've heard "all you white people look the same" so often that it no longer surprises me. People in China and Cameroon regularly get me mixed up with people who (to me) look nothing like me at all.

I'll be the first to admit that it took me a while to get used to recognizing people in China. Sure, my friends are easy because I know their personality so well. But my students are pretty much all around 5'2, thin, with long wavy black hair, brown eyes and a fondness for pink sweaters. Yeah, chances are I probably won't recognize them on the street.

I think most Americans are used to using race, hair and eye color and height to identify people. We generally don't focus on facial structure and exact skin tones. So yeah, it does take a while to get used to finding new ways of recognizing people.

Anyway, it'd always crack me up in Cameroon when people would give descriptions like "Oh, you know, Bouba, the black guy." To me, everyone counted as "black." But to a Cameroonian you'd get that description by being oh-so-slightly blacker than everyone else.

Meanwhile my Chinese students are all freaking out about their skin tone, wanting it to be as white as possible. Many of them consider skin tone to be the most important aspect of beauty, and the saying is that "white skin covers one thousand flaws." As a white foreigner, I have pretty much no awareness of skin tone and think it'd be pretty strange to compare skin tones with someone of my own race in the same general range. So when I look out on my classroom I see a sea of girls who have pretty much the same mid-toned skin. But when they look they see this complicated hierarchy based on (to me) really subtle variations of skin tones. They can tell you exactly who has a good skin color and a bad one and where they fit in. They notice when I come in with even the slightest tan from walking around a bit in the sun. Whereas I'd be hard pressed to describe someone's skin color beyond their race and "light, olive, tanned, dark."

So yeah, other people really notice stuff we don't.

[simple homer]

Originally Posted by even sven

I'll be the first to admit that it took me a while to get used to recognizing people in China. Sure, my friends are easy because I know their personality so well. But my students are pretty much all around 5'2, thin, with long wavy black hair, brown eyes and a fondness for pink sweaters. Yeah, chances are I probably won't recognize them on the street.

I am about as white bread as a person can be, and I always recognize my students in China anywhere I might be. I find it odd that you would not recognize your students on the street.
I see such a large variation in Chinese people that I have never confused one for another or not recognized a face.

Of course, generalizations or stupid questions are not limited to western people.
The Chinese have asked me many questions that have made me rolled my eyes.
The one seemingly common belief here in China is that all western movies and TV are based on reality. It is difficult to convince them that not everything they see in American movies and TV is real.

Actually that has been a common problem in every country that I have visited. Many people ignorantly think that they understand or know everything about America because they have watched American movies and TV. They just cannot accept that most movies and TV are not reality.

[even sven]

Originally Posted by simple homer

I am about as white bread as a person can be, and I always recognize my students in China anywhere I might be. I find it odd that you would not recognize your students on the street.
I see such a large variation in Chinese people that I have never confused one for another or not recognized a face.

Well, either you are a better man than me, are better at recognizing people than me, have fewer students than me, or live in a more cosmopolitan place with a wider variety of people. All of these are quite likely.

[lshaw]

Originally Posted by even sven

The whole "Americans are white" thing is pretty universal.

Yeah, seriously. I made a trip out to Taiwan for the Chinese New Year, and I ran into the son of a family friend there. He's around my age, and I was telling him that one of my American friends recently moved to the country to learn Mandarin. His response:

"Do you mean he's an Asian American or a real American?"

[loyaltubist]

Some comments from the original poster:
1. There are no U.S. troops permanently stationed in the Philippines anymore outside diplomatic installations (Embassy and U.S. Consulate-General).
2. White people are often charged double or triple what others are charged. I live here and earn about the same as locals (I earn in a month what I used to earn in a day.)
3. The Philippines calls itself the third largest English-speaking country in the world. Yet 99% of the population speaks another language as a mother tongue. Pronunciations and definitions often get mixed up.
4. I like what the first respondent said about Joe being what prostitute customers answered when asked their name. I heard that when I lived in Vietnam.
5. The Filipino culture is more like the Spanish than the American culture. But even that's a little messed up, since no one speaks Spanish.

Some definitions:
ACCEPT - - means "offer" (We accept delivery.)
SURPLUS - - used (many countries send the vehicles that are not allowed because of their age here, such as Korea and Singapore)
FIXER - - a shyster

Pronunciations:
DELICACY - - del LICK ass see
CONTRIBUTE - - CONN trib butte
CHOCOLATE - - CHOKE coal late

[Shot From Guns]

Originally Posted by TurboNuke

It's pretty disappointing that it's assumed to be racist when white people claim that other races look alike.

Well, it still kind of is. Because while people of a race may look alike to someone who hasen't ever been exposed to many people of that race, they don't actually look alike; they just have difference distinguishing features. I guess I'd say "People of Ethnicity X all look alike" is racist but "I have trouble telling people of Ethnicity X apart" is just being honest.

[choie]

Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno

Today I was told by a very polite Bahamian that she does not like America and will not be going there anymore! She will stick to Panama and New York.

In fairness, many in the U.S. don't consider New York to be part of 'real' America either.

[hogarth]

Originally Posted by Shot From Guns

Well, it still kind of is. Because while people of a race may look alike to someone who hasen't ever been exposed to many people of that race, they don't actually look alike; they just have difference distinguishing features. I guess I'd say "People of Ethnicity X all look alike" is racist but "I have trouble telling people of Ethnicity X apart" is just being honest.

The master speaks.
And then speaks some more.

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by Shot From Guns

Something I learned when I was studying abroad in Japan: 外人 gaijin (a slangy and potentially offensive term for a foreigner, short for 外人 gaikokujin) is almost exclusively applied to white foreigners.

It depends on what's expedient at the time. For example if a newspaper is reporting the number of foreigners then they'll lump everyone together as 外国人regardless of race or nationality. But if someone were reporting how someone else looked and they said something like "gaijin/gaikokujin poi" they'd be referring to a white westerner almost certainly.

Originally Posted by Bosstone

Can't remember if he ever noted being called that by someone else, although I imagine there's few Japanese who'd be that impolite.

Many Japanese don't consider it impolite, just a statement of fact, so they'll use it all the time.

[Shot From Guns]

Originally Posted by Isamu

It depends on what's expedient at the time. For example if a newspaper is reporting the number of foreigners then they'll lump everyone together as 外国人regardless of race or nationality.

I'm talking about gaijin, not gaikokujin. It's the former that IME is applied pretty exclusively to white foreigners.

Many Japanese don't consider it impolite, just a statement of fact, so they'll use it all the time.

Again, gaijin vs. gaikokujin. The former is the term that's potentially offensive (and I know it made at least some Japanese I knew uncomfortable).

[Nava]

Originally Posted by simple homer

The one seemingly common belief here in China is that all western movies and TV are based on reality. It is difficult to convince them that not everything they see in American movies and TV is real.

Actually that has been a common problem in every country that I have visited. Many people ignorantly think that they understand or know everything about America because they have watched American movies and TV. They just cannot accept that most movies and TV are not reality.

That happens with every country you name; the Greek had to start playing and dancing the theme song of "Zorba the Greek" in restaurants and parties because tourists were convinced that it was more authentic than the real traditional songs. People tend to believe the made-up stuff and disbelieve the realistic parts, even. Heck, one of my classmates (MSc in translation, in the UK, very international group) asked us whether the hats worn by some people in Pan's Labyrinth are real... and at least she asked! (Yes, the Guardia Civil does wear those patent-leather tricorns, although they're mostly ceremonial right now).

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by Shot From Guns

I'm talking about gaijin, not gaikokujin. It's the former that IME is applied pretty exclusively to white foreigners.

Well I don't think that's true anymore, if it ever was. I see and hear gaijin used for 'whites' and 'non-whites' alike. Less so for economic boom 'asians', but there you have it - in those cases it's more important to specify country (such as Taiwan or China). In any case, it's a clumsy term that persists despite it's uselessness as a descriptor. So when most Japanese people hear gaijin it just means "not-Japanese, probably white but possibly black or asian". If you subject it to absolute scrutiny in how it is used, it just means 'not Japanese'.

Originally Posted by Shot From Guns

Again, gaijin vs. gaikokujin. The former is the term that's potentially offensive (and I know it made at least some Japanese I knew uncomfortable).

Yes, let me say it again, since 外人was the only term used in your original post, I was referring to 外人 - many Japanese people don't think it's offensive. Really.

[Quercus]

And what's up with Americans calling everyone "Guy"? Even if your name is Jacque, not Guy.

Originally Posted by even sven

The whole "Americans are white" thing is pretty universal. I knew an African-American volunteer in Cameroon who caused a near riot when she was placed with a host family who refused to believe she was not African. Eventually the family calmed down and decided she was just a very dark skinned white person, a notion they maintained during her entire stay despite her numerous explanations.

Reminds me of a bit in Little Big Man (the book, doubt it's in the movie). The protaganist is talking to a former slave who wants to run away to join the Indians, and reminds him that to the Indians, the former slave is a white man (just a dark-skinned one).

Originally Posted by Nava

That happens with every country you name; the Greek had to start playing and dancing the theme song of "Zorba the Greek" in restaurants and parties because tourists were convinced that it was more authentic than the real traditional songs.

Yup. Here's a song about it: http://www.robbieoconnell.com/songbo...not_Irish.html

[Kyla]

Originally Posted by lshaw

Yeah, seriously. I made a trip out to Taiwan for the Chinese New Year, and I ran into the son of a family friend there. He's around my age, and I was telling him that one of my American friends recently moved to the country to learn Mandarin. His response:

"Do you mean he's an Asian American or a real American?"

When I first moved to Bulgaria, I lived with a host family in a small village (pop. 700) for three months. About a year later, I went back to visit. In the meantime, my host family had had another host daughter, who had since also gone on to live in another town. I hadn't met her, but I knew she was Korean-American.

Anyway, on this visit, my host mom asked me what kind of people live in America. (Okay, maybe she had wondered this before, but my Bulgarian had improved a lot over the year so now we could talk about stuff much better.) I told her "oh, white and black and Asian...like Jane, you know?" My host mom said "Jane isn't American, she's Korean!" We then proceeded to have a short argument about whether or not Jane could be American, which I settled by saying that to be a Peace Corps Volunteer, you have to be American, and therefore it didn't matter where Jane's parents were from, she was American.

I think it kind of blew my host mom's mind. And a Chinese-American volunteer I knew could not convince her Bulgarian colleagues that she was American, didn't speak Chinese, had never been to China, and didn't really know a whole heck of a lot about life in China. Trying to be polite, they asked her many questions about her homeland....China.

Of course, Bulgaria is a place where people of Turkish descent have been living in the country for generations and generations - but they're still Turkish. (Which once led to one of my students being confused about why I wasn't allowed to vote in an election. If the Turks can vote, how come Americans can't vote too?)

[[Undecided] Adrian]

Originally Posted by Gary T

I imagine that during WWII, in both Europe and the Pacific virtually all the American forces seen by the residents were white.

I think most for Germans, at least in the US-occupied areas, GIs were the first black people they saw after WW2. I've heard several such stories, from my grandmother among others - the first black people, and soldiers giving out candy.

There still is a German pastry with white and black sugar coating called Amerikaner. Wiki doesn't support that story, but I think it's neat