Picture putting the Hindenburg on rails. Now picture that derailing. That’s how my last date, some time ago now, went. I’ve gotten better but I’m still quite clueless. I figured I’d ask some smart people on Internet. Perhaps others can learn from each other as well.
On Wednesday, I’m going to a history museum with a woman. We’re quite similar in both being late 20s introverted law students. We’ve known each other for half a semester.
So, anything you learned in your dating that could be useful? I know the usual; Wash, dress well, offer to pay, be yourself, don’t worry too much, concentrate on just having fun with the other person.
The way I lower my stress about something is usually by learning about it. So my asking is as much about learning how to do it as it is about being able to relax.
I usually dress is black/navy slacks, dress shirts and black wingtips. I figure dressing up for the date would imply wearing a suit, which might come off too formal for a first date.
Nope, I thought assassination too. My first thought was, “It should be interesting to see how the poster is going to convince the mods that this is just a hypothetical.”
Don’t bother, I’ve alerted the mods to your dilemma, and they’ll probably fix it in the morning.
The outfit that you mention you usually wear, is that what you wear to classes as well? A trip to a history museum should be casual, and you should dress comfortably. I’d be inclined to wear sneakers, slacks, and a short-sleeved shirt.
Yes, that’s what I wear to classes. When I said “slacks” I meant “dress pants”. Picture Jim Halpert without a tie, dress-wise.
How I decided:
I figured that in the early stages, dinner and a movie are just about the worst options. A movie doesn’t allow you to talk. A dinner puts pressure to talk.
I noticed that when I’m eating with a friend, the discussion often stops and it doesn’t feel awkward. On a date though, especially a first one, that’s uncomfortable.
A museum allows you to start talking about a topic for however long you want and then stop. You can keep looking at the exhibits and if something springs to mind, you resume the conversation and stop it when it runs out.
Also, a museum is full of conversation topics.
A visit to a museum can last 30 minutes or 5 hours.
It’s also more cerebral than a lot of first date activities, which I think would suit us.
Okay. I had to look up Jim Halpert to know who you were talking about. If that’s what she usually sees you in, fine, I suppose. If you wanted to change up the look, I’d go for more casual rather than less, though.
Your reasons for selecting the museum seem a bit, how shall I put this – “calculated.”* Is this an activity that both of you would have enjoyed doing, even if there hadn’t been a date involved?
What time of day is the date set for? Is it at a time of day, where you could say “I’m hungry, can I buy you some lunch?” If you go for a meal after you’ve been through the museum, you’ve got a recent shared experience you can talk about. Or is it more of an evening thing? If you’ve both had dinner before you went, you could always suggest coffee and pie (assuming things are going well).
Museum is open from 10AM to 5PM. The precise hour of the date isn’t set. We’re both completely free that day.
You don’t need to use euphemisms. Use something blunter than “calculated” if you want, as long as it’s informative.
I liked going to that museum every other time I did.
I don’t really have anything blunter than “calculated.” There may be a better word to describe my sense that your selection process is unusually systematic, but my normal articulateness is failing me at the moment.
What’s your sense of her level of interest in this museum? Oh, and by the way, what exactly kind of a history museum is it? A natural history museum (dinosaur bones and fossils and whatnot)? A history of quilting museum?
I went on a very successful museum date last year (we got it on the moment we got back to her apartment from the museum).
From my own experience, therefore: smile (but not so much that you look like a corpse with rigor mortis); make - and boldly hold - eye contact; make physical contact - put a hand gently on her back or shoulder when you’re calling something to her attention - keep it there if she doesn’t flinch or pull away, and increase the frequency and extent if it’s clearly well received; talk knowledgeably and with enthusiasm when you can, but more importantly, IMO, mock the exhibits - try to see an exhibit from a different angle to the obvious, and riff on that; finally, take innocent speech bubble cards from the kid’s section and nearly wet yourself laughing while holding them next to exhibits to make inappropriately rude scenarios while your date takes photographs.
OK, the last one might be a bit specific. And is probably not recommended if things aren’t going that way. But try to make it a fun experience for her, rather than an academic or erudite one.
The thing that I’m learning just recently, in my divorced-and-still-naive-about-dating life, is that it’s OK to be blatant with the object of your affections as to what you want. Unless you behave like a total dick, the worst that can happen is a bit of awkwardness, and if you’re single and want to be with someone, potential awkwardness is surely a small price to pay for the possible results. Took me a while to get there…
(BTW I applied the learning in the above paragraph to the girl you PMed me about, and yup, it worked - my new-found decisiveness with her, and a blatant “I make no apologies for my desires” attitude over the last week has pushed her into a situation where she last night confessed her feelings for me. Now I have to work out what to do with that information…)
I’m not sure what advice can be provided beyond the obvious. I do agree, though, that you might be dressing up a bit too much for the venue, unless you have specific reason to this this date wants you in casual business attire. I would absolutely NOT wear sneakers on a first date ever ever ever, but dial it down a little bit; try good jeans and your best jean-appropriate shirt.
jjimm’s advice is all well said, too. Now, you’re probably thinking, well, it’s easier said than done, and that’s true. The truth is that when it comes to dating - as anything else - practice makes perfect. If you’re having trouble finding the balance between showing a woman you’re attracted to her and being creepy, it’s just a lack of practice. Just play on her reactions as best you can.
The key thing is to make it clear that you find her romantically interesting without being creepy or a jerk. Do not go too far one way or the other. Establishing that, just play it natural; ask her to lunch if appropriate, ask her to coffee afterwards if appropriate. If she’s introverted she may appreciate you taking the lead on suggesting activities as long as you don’t go too fast.
Speaking for all women for a second - we notice your shoes and your fingernails (well, all your grooming). The clothes are also noticed, but you get more leeway on those (unless you’re wearing something completely inappropriate or idiotic).
The biggest tip to keep things moving along is LISTEN TO HER. Ask her questions, listen to the answer, ask another question based on what she just said - “So, where are you from?” “Butthole, Missouri.” “Oh - have you been in Wherever long now?” and keep going from there. Don’t worry about asking stupid questions; it is understood that in the beginning you won’t likely be having deep, philosophical, wildly entertaining conversations; you’ll be having uncomfortable, stilted, getting-to-know-you conversations, and that’s okay.
Last but not least, don’t be afraid to ask for another date afterwards, or get in touch with her afterwards and say you had a good time and you’d like to see her again. You don’t need to chase her or smother her, but if you like her and want to see her again, simply tell her that.
Kayland, yes, I tend to be unusually systematic when something matters to me. It’s sometimes advantageous, sometimes (like dating) not.
Here’s the list of exhibitions: science behind human thought, the 7 sins, the province’s territories, the evolution of the province’s society from the late 18th century to now and the first nations.
She seemed enthusiastic and said she hadn’t been there in a while (she’s from out of town). As we were on the phone, I can’t be all that sure.
Thanks Jjimm for the info. I’m curious about the precise way you were blatant with the woman in question. Did I misunderstand or did you not sleep in the same bed? Maybe it’s just me, but if I went on dates with a woman and we slept in the same bed, I’d presume interest on her part.
The line between showing of interest and creepy is something that’s holding me back. I know I’m bad at following the subtler social rules and reading signals so I tend to hang back for fear of being too pushy/forward. I have a similar problem with eye contact: When I know someone, especially a woman I’m attracted to, I can have eye contact all day. But when I make eye contact with a female stranger, I can’t maintain it because I figure eye contact with a male stranger might be seen as threatening.
Physical contact is a big barrier. I’m quite wary of touching someone (even non-sexually) when that person doesn’t want to. So I’d need some kind of confirmation, but such confirmations are seldom made explicit.
Cat Whisperer has some good advice. It may take a bit of effort at the beginning, but usually, you’ll both soon find some common ground. Don’t forget to suggest some refreshment afterward. This can take the conversation from your shared experience at the museum to a more personal level.
And is probably not recommended if things aren’t going that way. But try to make it a fun experience for her, rather than an academic or erudite one.