What does China want with Tibet anyway?

Factual Questions
1

This is probably a stupid question, but I don’t get why China would want to conquer Tibet in the first place.

I mean, there’s nothing there, is there? It’s a bunch of mountains and monks in funny hats and yaks, right? It’s not brimming with natural resources or fertile farmland, correct?

I know China is colonizing it with its own people, but I figured that was a cultural extermination thing - that they don’t really need the lebensraum, right? Because China is, you know, large. It doesn’t give it any geographic advantage like a warm water port or something. It wasn’t a military threat as far as I know.

So, why? Just because it’s there and they could and did, and now they won’t let it go? They want half of Everest? (Control of the mountain sources of their rivers, maybe?)

2

withdrawn

3

many regions are not “fertile” or otherwise particularly economically prosperous by Western standards before an advanced civilization shows up there to colonize. E.g. California used to be a desert. South Africa used to be also pretty arid and massively depopulated by “mfekane” wars. Manchuria was purely nomadic steppe for awhile before Chinese penetration. What is now Pacific North-west used to be populated by non agricultural peoples. Australia used to be populated by Australian aborigines…

Anyway, so chances are, the Chinese will figure it out. Even if we cannot necessarily predict the details accurately ahead of time.

4

My understanding is that historically, invading armies have enjoyed coming through Tibet. China views it as a region that has historically and legitimately been under Chinese domination, and it gives them a more defensible border.

5

Having recently been in Shanghai I can tell you that the Chinese feel that Tibet, much like Taiwan, is a part of China, so they aren’t conquering it but simply reclaiming what is rightfully theirs.

The Chinese government is very sensitive to the idea of a breakaway province and are apparently worried about sending the wrong message to the Taiwanese if they were to choose to leave Tibet.

And since Tibet it not in any position to kick China out I don’t see any reason for China to abandon it. They have been successfully ignoring the wishes of the Dalai Lama for many decades…

6

Think about it this way - would the US be willing to give up Death Valley, or some other place that doesn’t have many valuable natural resources, isn’t that good for agriculture, and doesn’t have any major strategic value militarily? I think virtually every American would say that Death Valley is an integral part of the country, lack of resources notwithstanding.

I think it is the same way for China - it is part of the Chinese identity.

7

Parts of California used to be a desert, and parts still are. Much of California was not a desert within the past thousands of years and was and is quite lush at all times.

8

The public reason that the PRC gave for “liberating” tibet was that it’s people were serfs oppressed by the monks.
“The Chinese government claims that most Tibetans were still serfs in 1951, and have proclaimed that the Tibetan government inhibited the development of Tibet during its self-rule from 1913 to 1959, and opposed any modernization efforts proposed by the Chinese government.[33]”

The real reason was almost certainly that India was newly independent (in 1947) and the PRC was afraid that sooner or later as India got stronger, Tibet would have fallen into the Indian sphere of influence as a protectorate or even asked to join India.

good article here:

9

Also consider that China wants to land a man on the Moon. A launch pad in the Himalayas would have a three mile headstart on anything we launched from Canaveral, so it wouldn’t take as much fuel.Yes, just kidding

10

China wants Tibet because, historically, Tibet has been a part of China since the 13th century. Tibet did assert some independence in the early 20th Century, but the PRC contends this was not true independence because the country was torn by civil war and preoccupied by an invasion by Japan at the time. From the Chinese point of view, “free Tibet” makes as much sense as “free Texas” does in the US.

11

Only according to the PRC. For a fair summary of both viewpoints see here:

12

Probably the main reason is that it is a strategic buffer region.

Also important is that China has a number of regions that are not entirely thrilled with being China. There is a strong feeling that if one region breaks away, it could possibly lead to others, and there is a fairly legitimate fear that this could lead to China’s historical nightmare- the dissolution of China as a whole into a group of independent states. China is not the pillar of strength and unity that it portrays itself. There is a great deal of probably well-founded fear that even a small event could easily break apart the country, which has a strong historical precedent.

Culturally, China is still smarting from the days when it was the center of world, the all-under-heaven. Pretty much every state in east Asia used to send tributes to China. In my opinion, China feels like it has lost it’s rightful place in the world. But there is a sort of feeling that pride can be restored when Taiwan returns to the motherland. But losing land would be a terrible humiliation.

As for everyday people, they get told all kind of stuff. Now and then my students bring up Tibet, and it’s amazing. They were shocked to learn that Tibetans are not universally grateful that China has brought them culture and civilization (and TVs) and brought them out of barbarism. I’ve personally seen TV shows that are all about Tibet being so thankful for being a part of China- people believe this stuff. They believe the Dalai Lama is a bloodthirsty monster, probably a puppet of the CIA, who personally coordinates any violent dissent in Tibet. He gets called a “mass murderer” a lot by my students. When I went to Tibet, my student told me that I would probably get robbed, since Tibetans are armed thieves. They also warned me not to touch anyone, because they believe Tibetans only bathe once a year. In my experience, there is a lot of ignorance of the subject.

Usual disclaimers- I am not a China expert, most of my experiences are from small-town Sichuan, China is a huge country and different people have different views, etc.

I’d also say that a key book to understanding China politically is China, the Fragile Superpower. Written by former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State and UC San Diego professor Susan Shirk, it’s a sober and detailed examination of how nationalism, pride and resentment work on a political level in China. Of the hundred or so books on China I’ve read, this is the most revealing.

This is a…version of the truth. While the Mongols did briefly rule over both Tibet and China, that’s not really equivalent to China ruling Tibet. Some would argue that is like saying Burma is part of India because the British colonized both of them.

In any case, Tibet has a MUCH longer history as an independent state and the events of the 1950s had next to nothing to do with history.

13

Water.

Much of the water for southern China rivers and agriculture there depends on the water starting as icemelt in the Himalayan mountains & the Tibetian plateau. Some 40% of the world’s population depends on this water source, including much of China. And drinkable water is becoming much scarcer in the world. To Chinas leaders, the idea of someone else controlling the water for their people and their agriculture is not acceptable.

14

Where are you teaching? You give a very good explanation of why the government wants Tibet.

From my experience, the reasons the average Chinese person wants Tibet to be part of China have already been expounded by other users.

15

I’ve been out in sunny Sichuan for the last two years.

16

Some of China’s tradational desire for control of Tibet may have been strengthened during the Soviet Era when the USSR and China each claimed the other was indulging in hegemony. Each defined hegemony in terms of the other, as best I could tell. Given China’s history, especially in the 19th and 20th century, their concerns were understandable. In that sense, Tibet would be seen as a target for foreign occupation, to be used as a means of control, or just a stepping for invasion. This is of course, an my view from the outside, based on other outsiders views. But I think it provides some basis for China’s contemporary justifications.

17

How do your students reconcile Tibetans supposedly having been brought out of barbarism with the help of China, yet still being armed thieves who never bathe? Do they even try to reconcile it, or do they just not think about Tibet much so they don’t see the contradiction?

18

I agree with the defensable border argument (among others). One has to only look at the war in the 60s between India and China to see how the mountains played a vital war on when the war would be fought and how.

In the Bangladesh Independence War it’s notable that India waited till the mountain passes had been frozen over before it launched into helping Bangladesh full force. (Yes, Pakistan attacked it in the West before then, but the bulk of force waited till it was assured China could not bring land forces over the mountains).

Also is the precident for breakaway of other regions, though with Kosovo, we have already established that precident about halfway regardless

19

I’m Chinese and the view I’ve got from my parents have always been that it’s a national pride thing. Tibet should belong to China and Taiwan should belong to China because it would be good for the country and the people. No explanation of how it would be good, just a vague idea of nationalism and pride

And btw, they are not some Communist-loving socialists. My grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought on the side of the Nationalists that fled to Taiwan. They had land taken by the Communists when they left. For some reason, that never bothered my parents. They support the Unification of Taiwan and China (eventually) and consider Tibet to be part of China

20

What do they think about Outer Mongolia and the Russian far east?