Army Engineer Troops Used in Combat?

[ralph124c]

As I understand it, Army Engineering troops are vital-they build roads, bridges, water systems, and make it possible for an army in the field to survive. Given their importance, they are not used in combat..but in case of urgent need, they are trained (basic combat training).
Have engineering battalions ever been pressed into service as combat troops? How did they perform?

[Snnipe 70E]

My brother was in the Army Core of engineers during Vietman. He started in an open area. They built the base. At first there were no other troups in the area so if attacked they had to fight. After the base was partly built he did have to go out on some night patrols.

[Nametag]

Combat engineers are a separate MOS from other military engineers. They specialize in field operations to advance the mission(s) of fighting units, including bridging, fortification, demolition, etc. In the U.S. Army, they are also trained as rifle infantry, and sometimes act in that capacity. Combat engineers often advance under fire to destroy enemy fortifications and other obstacles, and they perform very well. D-Day might have failed without sappers clearing the way; it was bloody enough as it was.

Military historians of the non-Wikipedia variety are welcome to contradict any of the above, but I think I've got it right.

[AK84]

Old British Indian Army saying, 'sappers first in harms way".

[KarlGauss]

They did splendidly, old boy! By Jove, even Stanley Baker won a VC!

[Ranchoth]

Originally Posted by KarlGauss

They did splendidly, old boy! By Jove, even Stanley Baker won a VC!

Hey, he told us he came here to build a bridge.

[MichaelEmouse]

Originally Posted by Nametag

Combat engineers are a separate MOS from other military engineers. They specialize in field operations to advance the mission(s) of fighting units, including bridging, fortification, demolition, etc. In the U.S. Army, they are also trained as rifle infantry, and sometimes act in that capacity. Combat engineers often advance under fire to destroy enemy fortifications and other obstacles, and they perform very well. D-Day might have failed without sappers clearing the way; it was bloody enough as it was.

Military historians of the non-Wikipedia variety are welcome to contradict any of the above, but I think I've got it right.

Same thing for combat engineers in Canada. I was in such a unit and we were trained to conduct patrols and road blocks, use machineguns, grenades, recoiless rifles and other combat-related tasks just like the infantry, artillery and armor.

Pure engineers though, I expect resemble the medical and logistics corps. They know how to operate the basic assault rifle and (hopefully) not get lost in the woods.

[madmonk28]

My great uncle was a combat engineer with the 29th Infrantry when the landed at D day. He got shot on D day and during the battle of the Bulge, so he must have pissed someone off.

[Chefguy]

Same thing for U.S. Navy Seabees and Civil Engineering Corps. Our job was to construct forward bases for the Marines and to defend what we built. We were trained in defensive combat as well as how to conduct patrols, and in ambush tactics. Every Seabee battalion carries a full complement of light and heavy weapons, and is organized into a typical fighting unit with rifle and weapons platoons. Every "home port" period was spent in both military and technical training, as well as project planning for upcoming deployments.

[Oakminster]

The Seabees got a John Wayne movie, so they had to be pretty tough.

[Tripler]

Same thing for US Air Force RED HORSE Squadrons. The Air Force doesn't have offensive infantry (in the classic sense) and is usually bound to an airfield. But, RED HORSE does go outside the wire to build roads, campsites, radar sites, wells, etc. to project mission capabilities and is trained in self/site defense. Any forward demolition or explosives work is done by EOD, although the HORSE does do some explosive operations for quarry work.

Tripler
- Prior 819 RED HORSE.

[carnivorousplant]

Originally Posted by Oakminster

The Seabees got a John Wayne movie, so they had to be pretty tough.

Yes, but that film doesn't end well for the Duke.

[Dallas Jones]

Originally Posted by Snnipe 70E

My brother was in the Army Core of engineers during Vietman.

Oh, jeez, I just have to fix this. It's Army Corps of Engineers.

Carry on.

[Loach]

I'm a Combat Engineer. Engineers are always in the thick of it. We are considered Combat Arms just like Infantry.

[Snnipe 70E]

Originally Posted by ghardester

Oh, jeez, I just have to fix this. It's Army Corps of Engineers.

Carry on.

OK now it is my turn to say DA

[Fubaya]

My Grandfather was a Seabee in WWII building airstrips in the Pacific island hoppping campaigns and saw a lot of action. Although he died the year I was born, I've seen the photos, letters and heard a few third-hand stories and it sounded pretty rough. Their motto is "We Build, We Fight."

[Alessan]

There is also the difference between Combat Engineers and infantry/engineering units several militaries possess, like Assault Pioneers or Sappers (depending oin the army). These are elite infantry units who undergo engineering training; basically, Combat Engineers will build you a bridge, Assault Pioneers will blow up an enemy bridge.

[Loach]

MOS 21b.

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by Fubaya

My Grandfather was a Seabee in WWII building airstrips in the Pacific island hoppping campaigns and saw a lot of action. Although he died the year I was born, I've seen the photos, letters and heard a few third-hand stories and it sounded pretty rough. Their motto is "We Build, We Fight."

Construimus, Batuimus officially. Hats off to your gramps: those guys were truly in the thick of things on those stinking islands.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Loach

I'm a Combat Engineer. Engineers are always in the thick of it. We are considered Combat Arms just like Infantry.

"First In, Last Out"

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

"First In, Last Out"

And the Seabees greet them going both ways.

[Paul in Qatar]

I am (or was) an Infantryman. Engineers are just about as neat as the Infantry.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Chefguy

And the Seabees greet them going both ways.

There was a story in the book Can Do! that the Marines made an amphibious assault on an island in the Pacific.
Unknown to them, the day before, a group of Seabees put ashore to see if an airfield could be built there.
Anyway as the story goes, as the ramps drop on the landing craft, the first thing the Marines see is a Seabee leaning against a palm tree. The Seabee says "The Seabees are always happy to greet the Marines."
What made this doubly funny was that the average age in the Seabees was quite a few years older than the Marines, since Seabees were recruited from various trades. They were the old men in combat during WWII. My father was a JG in the Seabees in his 30s.
I make no claim as to the truth of this story, just repeating what I read.

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by Rick

There was a story in the book Can Do! that the Marines made an amphibious assault on an island in the Pacific.
Unknown to them, the day before, a group of Seabees put ashore to see if an airfield could be built there.
Anyway as the story goes, as the ramps drop on the landing craft, the first thing the Marines see is a Seabee leaning against a palm tree. The Seabee says "The Seabees are always happy to greet the Marines."
What made this doubly funny was that the average age in the Seabees was quite a few years older than the Marines, since Seabees were recruited from various trades. They were the old men in combat during WWII. My father was a JG in the Seabees in his 30s.
I make no claim as to the truth of this story, just repeating what I read.

Another story has them making a functioning machine gun in the Aleutian Campaign using, in part, pieces from a washing machine.

[Cheshire Human]

Originally Posted by AK84

Old British Indian Army saying, 'sappers first in harms way".

Unofficial US Army combat engineer's motto: First we dig 'em, then we die in 'em

(that's the holes in the ground, trenches and other such fortifications)

[msmith537]

Don't combat engineers also drive these things?

[Spiny Norman]

Shayna presented me with a somewhat obscure book - First across the Rhine describing the history of the 291st Engineer Combat Battalion in WWII. Quite a distinguished unit, and - as the title obviously gives away - the first engineers to construct a bridge across the Rhine. (The one famously taken more-or-less intact didn't last long.)

However, during the Battle of the Bulge, parts of this unit found itself facing the lead elements of no less a foe than the Kampfgruppe Peiper - and while they couldn't take on an enemy like that in pitched battle, their roadblocks, minefields and demolition work frustrated the advance for long enough that reinforcements were brought up.

(In the same battle, 291st patrols were also the first to make contact with survivors of the infamous Malmedy massacre.)