Can an employer force a salaried employee to work a full 40 hours?

[batsto]

Suppose you work a regular 40 hour week every week and get paid a set salary. But one day, there's a lot of traffic, or some other delay, and you get to work an hour late. Can the employer require you to make up that hour? And if so, does it have to be on the same day, or can they require you to work a 9 hour day some other day? I know I read an article about this a few years ago but I can't remember the details, and I'm having no luck on the New Jersey labor board website either.

[tdn]

Mine does. Although I'm salaried, I have to work 40 hours a week. If I don't, it comes out of my vacation/sick time.

[Leaffan]

The employer is paying you to work 40 hours, so you work 40 hours. Most salaried employees have flexible schedules and either written, or unwritten agreements with their boss regarding banked time, or make up time.

There's no single right answer here.

[KneadToKnow]

Originally Posted by Leaffan

There's no single right answer here.

Concur.

We'd need to start with the definition of "force." As in, chain you to your desk? Probably not. As in, dock your pay if you don't? Probably so.

[Whack-a-Mole]

Originally Posted by KneadToKnow

We'd need to start with the definition of "force." As in, chain you to your desk? Probably not. As in, dock your pay if you don't? Probably so.

This.

An employer cannot "force" you to do anything whatsoever (unless you are a member of the US military...better do what they say unless you want big trouble).

Neither does the employer "have" to keep you on as an employee.

The terms of your job are laid out. Take it or leave it as you like but if you accept then you are expected to fulfill those terms (as is the employer). The employer can of course re-jigger the terms anytime they want (with the caveat that sometimes contractual limitations from a union or other contract may limit their ability to change it at will) at which point you again can agree to the new terms or leave (in some cases you can collect unemployment even though you quit because the terms of your employment changed).

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Where it gets into a legal gray area (I think) is when someone like me, a salaried employee, is required to work 45-50 hours a week, with no extra compensation.

[pope_hentai]

as a salaried general manager for pizza hut, I had to put in 50 hrs a week. if my numbers were balancing well, they generally didn't say much if i didn't, but when sales were tight i'd hear about it.

[crazyjoe]

there are all sorts of regulations pertainign to this, and a lot of stuff is covered in the Fair Labor Standards Act, but suffice it to say that employers also have a lot of leeway. I do not beleive it is lawful to dock your pay if you are salaried, but there are plenty of other things they could do to make things not fun for you.

[Markxxx]

As others have said, it varies by state law but as a general rule, unless a state or federal law prohibits it, it is perfectly legal for them to do so.

For instance in Illinios, there is no state law regarding keeping a person on a beeper or cellphone. So it's legal for an employer to put a beeper on a person 24/7 days a week.

Of course the employer would have to have a justification for that. For instance a computer guy might need to make himself available, while a secretary to to the boss wouldn't need that.

The rules are much different for employees on wages and of course for those with union contracts. In some states certain professions also carry different rules, for instance in Illinois registered nurses have slightly different work weeks and rules.

The whole point of salary is to give and take, but some employers see it as a way to work unpaid overtime. Which in reality doesn't work as in practice it just makes the employees resentful and they slack off so they end result is they are physically at their desks but not working.

I did a time and motion study for a large hotel chain with managers based on observation, computer logs, keystroke loggers and telephone loggers and found managers were in the office about 45 hours a week but working around 30 hours a week, with the other 15 hours spent on personal games or personal phone calls etc.

The best thing to do since the OP said he/she was in NJ go to Wages and Hours and look around or shoot them an email.

The state labor boards are good at letting you know if you're being jerked around

Good luck

[boytyperanma]

In general if you're paid salary you are expected to complete a specific role. If say you were a manager for a retail store and showed up an hour late you still have to get everything on the table for that day done. Maybe you could work harder and get it done in less time, if not you'd be expected to stay another hour to get it done. You'd even be expected to work longer if that particular day had more then 8 hours of work for you to get done.

When I worked for Home Depot assistant managers had a required 55 hour week. During the summer they were expected to work even more to pick up the extra workload. I refused a salaried position for years because I could make more hourly.

[CookingWithGas]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

Where it gets into a legal gray area (I think) is when someone like me, a salaried employee, is required to work 45-50 hours a week, with no extra compensation.

If you are exempt, then there is no legal gray area. You work as many hours as your employer requires.

If you are non-exempt there are federal laws specifying what an employer has to do regarding pay and overtime, of which I am not sufficiently expert to comment on.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I worked for CSC, a large federal contractor. They adopted a timekeeping system called Full-Time Accounting. This meant that on any given day, you either worked one hour or more, or took the whole day as vacation or sick time. No combination of absence and working time allowed on the same day. There were a couple of weeks I only charged 30-35 hours. However, this is all at the manager's discretion. There were also weeks I charged 60 hours, so most managers will cut you some slack during slow times.

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by CookingWithGas

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I worked for CSC, a large federal contractor.

Consulting firms like CSC or the Big-4 where I work tend to be a little different from what most people consider to be "regular" salaried jobs. All that really matters is that you bill enough client hours each period to meet your targets. For the most part, as a manager, I can (and do) come in late, leave early, take 4 hour lunches, work from home run errands during the day or whatever the heck else I feel like. Problem is if I'm doing that, I'm not billing time or actively seeking additional oportunities to bill time or help the higher ups sell work.

The flip side of that is when I'm on a project, I may work 15 hour days, travel across the country, work weekends and get called away from vacations.

The point is that a lot of professionals don't punch a clock and no one stands over us tapping their watch. We are expected to manage our own time and complete our client projects. My general rule as a manager is I don't really care where people are as long as they can do their work and they can respond to me within about 15 minutes via phone/email/txt.

Heck, I'd say 90% of my day is spent waiting for other people to finish tasks.

The down side to that is with everyone running around crazy, sometimes it's hard to get everyone together to get stuff done. Sometimes I need to get ahold of people and I don't know if they are on vacation, at a client, or just working from home.

[Dallas Jones]

Well New Jersey is an "at will" hiring and firing state. This means that they can just fire you for no particular reason, as long as they aren't firing you for an illegal reason. So unless you are part of a barganing unit (union) with a contract that spells all this out I wouldn't push it too far.

From here: http://research.lawyers.com/New-Jers...ew-Jersey.html

"In New Jersey, employees are presumed to be "at will." At-will employees may be terminated for any reason, so long as it's not illegal. Generally, employees who work under an employment contract can only be terminated for reasons specified in the contract. In New Jersey, if an employer shows express proof that an employee is employed at-will, even an implied contract will not overcome the presumption of at-will employment. "

[TriPolar]

The various posts incorporate all of it:
1. You have a contract with your employer
2. The contract may be explicit, as in a written contract
3. State and Federal law assumes a contract if there is no explicit contract
4. If an explicit contract conflicts with the State or Federal assumed contract, the State or Federal law determines which is appropriate.
5. If you don't have an explicit contract, with explicit terms for work hours and termination, they can fire you for working less than 40 hours.

Remember though, employers often create an explicit contract through written policies. If their policy allows less than 40 hour work weeks, they can't change the policy today and fire you for working 35 hours last week. But they may be able to fire you today just because they want to. Which is why you shouldn't complain if they want you to work 40 hours.

[Neptunian Slug]

Just depends on your employer. In my first job at my company, I was salaried but absolutely had to make up time that I had missed. They didn't count my time as if I were clocking in and out but they would known if I had been really late one day.

In my current job, I work about 60-70 hours a week the last two weeks of the month. This week I would be surprised if I worked 35. In fact today I strolled in at 9:30. But my heavy lifting was done last Friday. If I hadn't shown up to work today, I doubt anyone would have even noticed unless there was a client or media iniquiry.

[crazyjoe]

Originally Posted by CookingWithGas

If you are exempt, then there is no legal gray area. You work as many hours as your employer requires.

If you are non-exempt there are federal laws specifying what an employer has to do regarding pay and overtime, of which I am not sufficiently expert to comment on.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I worked for CSC, a large federal contractor. They adopted a timekeeping system called Full-Time Accounting. This meant that on any given day, you either worked one hour or more, or took the whole day as vacation or sick time. No combination of absence and working time allowed on the same day. There were a couple of weeks I only charged 30-35 hours. However, this is all at the manager's discretion. There were also weeks I charged 60 hours, so most managers will cut you some slack during slow times.

How about that? I used to work for CSC too, in their Healthcare division. The thing is, they got busted in a class action lawsuit for classifying certain employees as exempt when they really weren't according to the law. Lots of companies did and probably still do this. If your manager tells you to only put 40 hours on your timesheet, even though you worked more, that's a good indication of something shady.

I got a whopping 800 dollar settlement check for the 3 years that I worked there.

[LouisB]

My understanding was that I, as a salaried employee had no contract and no minimum or maximum hours to work in a given time; in fact, the actual number worked had best be very near and preferably well over the minimum----I might get by with working thirty or thirty-five hours one week but if I were smart, I'd work forty-five to fifty the following week.

[Ring]

Salaried isn't the key word here. The big difference is whether your exempt or non-exempt.

If you're non-exempt the employer must pay you overtime if ,for any reason, you work extra hours and can insist you work the full 40 hrs.

Exempt (Professional) is expected to get the work done no matter what it takes and the employer better be very careful about getting tough on taking occasional time off.

[CookingWithGas]

Originally Posted by msmith537

Consulting firms like CSC or the Big-4 where I work tend to be a little different from what most people consider to be "regular" salaried jobs. All that really matters is that you bill enough client hours each period to meet your targets.

True enough, although the point I was really trying to make is that the employer can legally require you to work >40, and they can allow you to work less as well. CSC had to change some of their accounting rules for billing customers; if you were on a T&M contract and worked five days but less than 40 hours, they adjusted your rate so they still billed the same amount. Same for >40. All this was apparently with the blessing of the government, although may have been negotiated differently on specific contracts.

Originally Posted by crazyjoe

If your manager tells you to only put 40 hours on your timesheet, even though you worked more, that's a good indication of something shady.

That would be in violation of company policy, among other things.

[crazyjoe]

Well, what "company policy" is and what your manager tells you to do can be 2 separate things...I suppose they could always fire you for not following policy, even if they tell you another thing through management.

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

Originally Posted by batsto

Suppose you work a regular 40 hour week every week and get paid a set salary. But one day, there's a lot of traffic, or some other delay, and you get to work an hour late. Can the employer require you to make up that hour? And if so, does it have to be on the same day, or can they require you to work a 9 hour day some other day? I know I read an article about this a few years ago but I can't remember the details, and I'm having no luck on the New Jersey labor board website either.

I suspect you have in mind the 2004 DOL clarification on the FLSA exemption rules and the (then) new salary test with respect to exempt employees. Here are some pertinent links:

http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...employees.html
http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...1_changes.html
http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...definition.htm

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/complian...ofessional.htm
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/complian...17g_salary.pdf

(The first set of links are from the Texas Workforce Commission, providing guidance on the federal regulations; it was the first thing I found and should be generally applicable. The second set are from the U.S. Dept of Labor. You could probably find some more pertaining to your state by googling something like "New Jersey Department of Labor overtime" or "New Jersey Wage and Hour Division".)

Note that it is not illegal to require you to make your missed time, but if they do so, you are not paid a salary but rather a wage denominated in pay periods rather than the usual hourly figure. Because the overtime exemptions require the payment of a true salary, an employee who was expected to make up a shortage hours despite working for a "salary" would also be entitled to time-and-a-half overtime pay.

[kunilou]

Gnerally, if you read the job description for a true "manager" (i.e., exempt employee), you'll see that the job is defined as completing projects, rather than specific tasks. Usually, buried under all those projects is a line like "plus whatever tasks management deems necessary." Also, on most performance review forms there's a category like "assists other employees as needed."

So, even if you get every item on your to-do list checked off in 30 hours or so, management can simply says that a) you haven't been assigned enough to do and dump more work on you and/or b) you're going home early instead of pitching in where needed.

In other words, work expands to fill the available time.

[Chefguy]

I worked in management positions for many years. Generally speaking, my boss in any of those jobs would never question time missed at the office, as long as it was not a habit. One boss even told me that she considered those in management positions to be able to take up to four hours per week away from the job without explanation.

[BigT]

My mom's a parapro in the public school system and is salaried. They don't force her to work, but she does get docked. Being late only means she doesn't get paid for the jobs that are time sensitive in the morning. But leaving early, even only an hour, get her docked a half day. And, of course, they can fire her, except nobody really wants her job. (That's a pretty bad job in a market like this.)

[Mesquite-oh]

I am an exempt salaried guy and the way we work it is that I am expected to get all of my work done no matter what time it takes. I am also expected to work 8 hours each working day at the office and if I don't, I need to make it up by the end of the monthly pay period. Likewise, if I work at the office more than 8 hours, I can take that time off sometime during the month. As long as my official time-sheet balance ends up being zero at the end of the pay period.

My employers say that even though I am salaried, I got to keep an offical time sheet and the accountants get pissed off if my hours are not at zero because of some sort of occasional audit they have to go through.

Keep in mind these are offical office hours, most of the managers where I work do a lot of work at home. Not that we are forced or even expected to work at home, but they give us all the tools necessary to do it almost as a favor so we are not stuck at the office all day.

[batsto]

I appreciate all the answers---a lot of these seem to fall into the category of 'how things actually work at my job', as opposed to whether or not that's the way they're supposed to work. (For the record, this is purely hypothetical---I'm an exempt employee, and things work like you'd expect here: most weeks I'm over 40 hours, but occassionally things do happen that cause me to be late or leave early. No one has actually insisted that make up the time, but I was just curious about the legality should it come up some day.)

It does strike me as ridiculous to make someone stay and make up a missing hour if all the work that needs doing is actually done, since you're paying me the same either way. Especially given that the week before, you probably got more than 40 hours out of me.