Erfworld: Book 2 discussion (spoilers)

[thinksnow]

I like the storylines but I guess I've gotten to the point where I'd like them more individually.

[Lightray]

New Erf comic

Back to the battleground, with Lady Sylvia. And a bit more about Carnymancy, although I'm not clear on what it's being implied that Jojo did there.

[One And Only Wanderers]

If this was Oots her declaration of invulnerability would indicate she was toast.....

[Yllaria]

With carnymancers being untrustworthy, I'm guessing that Jojo sold someone else out to help Sylvia. Well, from past events, he definitely sold out lots of people in the future. And it's been implied that he works for Charlie.

I'm very curious now.

[Lightray]

Jojo said he made a "trade". We know from the prequel story that Luckamancy basically trades one unit/side's rolls for someone else's... but that's Luckamancy, not Carnymancy. Carnymancy is aligned with the Fate axis, though, so maybe he traded her Fate for someone else's? Unaroyal seems to have gotten a bummer Fate, but doing that would have been contrary to Jojo's Duty, no matter how untrustworthy carnymancers are supposed to be.

[Yllaria]

Oh, boop. He could have shifted the death fate into the scroll that he's trying to pass on to our Lord Hampster.

[Chronos]

I don't think we're meant to understand what Jojo did, yet. It's meant to set up something else, that we'll see some time later.

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by Yllaria

Oh, boop. He could have shifted the death fate into the scroll that he's trying to pass on to our Lord Hampster.

I dunno. I have the sense that when Jojo had that encounter with Sylvia, it was a LONG time before anyone had plans about her becoming Lady Sylvia, Decrypted Warlord of Gobwin Knob.

I do think it's possible he was setting her up to be a sleeper agent for Charlie, to be triggered at some later time, as the opportunity presented itself.

[Yllaria]

Originally Posted by Chronos

I don't think we're meant to understand what Jojo did, yet. It's meant to set up something else, that we'll see some time later.

Oh, yes. I'm sure we're going to be teased for a for a long while before all becomes clear. And that's not a bad thing.

[One And Only Wanderers]

confirmation that the real Slately fell, also Parson claims no plan for this fight.

http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book...80%93-page-87/

[Lightray]

Parson not having a plan going in seems to be his standard operating procedure. He has contingencies ready, but never seems to have settled on one until he sees what the situation is.

I'm actually a little surprised it took this long to get back to that bat, though.

[One And Only Wanderers]

http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book...80%93-page-88/

wonder what Charlie will bring to the table.

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by One And Only Wanderers

http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book...80%93-page-88/

wonder what Charlie will bring to the table.

Shmuckers, first and foremost. Jetstone have until end of turn to designate an heir or cease to be.

But Jetstone have a prisoner and the information that Ossomer turned, both of which are valuable to Charlie, as is keeping Jetstone going. Presumably he'll pay quickly.

The real question will be what he does with his captive.

[One And Only Wanderers]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

Shmuckers, first and foremost. Jetstone have until end of turn to designate an heir or cease to be.

But Jetstone have a prisoner and the information that Ossomer turned, both of which are valuable to Charlie, as is keeping Jetstone going. Presumably he'll pay quickly.

The real question will be what he does with his captive.

Not quite, it was shown that Charlie was listening in to Bunny when Don was talking about Slately having fallen. Charlie knows that the side falls if he doesn't pay up, that puts him massively in the driving seat. He may well provide schmuckers to designate Tremennis heir, but he will want more than just the captured archon.

I assume he will want Parson (dead or alive?) and his mathamancy artifact

[Lightray]

New Erf
In which Charlie is mean to the dittohead, and reveals his plans for Parson.

Let's see, that's: Emperor Palpentine from Star Wars, maybe "V" from V for Vendetta, dunno some guy with moustache, Mr. Smith from the Matrix, dunno, Khan from Star Trek, Betelgeuse, and the Joker.

[hogarth]

Originally Posted by Lightray

maybe "V" from V for Vendetta

Doctor Doom

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by Lightray

New Erf
In which Charlie is mean to the dittohead, and reveals his plans for Parson.

Let's see, that's: Emperor Palpentine from Star Wars, maybe "V" from V for Vendetta, dunno some guy with moustache, Mr. Smith from the Matrix, dunno, Khan from Star Trek, Betelgeuse, and the Joker.

Shoulda made it Stewie Griffin in that last panel...

[Balance]

Originally Posted by Lightray

New Erf
In which Charlie is mean to the dittohead, and reveals his plans for Parson.

Let's see, that's: Emperor Palpentine from Star Wars, maybe "V" from V for Vendetta, dunno some guy with moustache, Mr. Smith from the Matrix, dunno, Khan from Star Trek, Betelgeuse, and the Joker.

Palpatine, Doctor Doom, Dr. Gero (so sayeth Erf forums), Agent Smith, General Zod (Superman villain), Khan Noonien Singh, Betelgeuse, and the Joker.

[Gyrate]

And the king becomes a pawn, literally and figuratively.

[Chronos]

I'm not convinced Charlie wants Parson dead. He wants Jetstone to try to kill him, which is not necessarily the same thing. Especially not for a chessmaster like Charlie.

[Lightray]

Since we now know from Maggie that a thinkamancer can alter her appearance in a thinkagram, the visual sfx that Charlie uses in his thinkagrams sort of lend credence to the fan theory that Charlie is from Stupidworld too, just like Parson.

[oft wears hats]

Originally Posted by Lightray

Since we now know from Maggie that a thinkamancer can alter her appearance in a thinkagram, the visual sfx that Charlie uses in his thinkagrams sort of lend credence to the fan theory that Charlie is from Stupidworld too, just like Parson.

I don't understand how you reached that conclusion. Can't Charlie just be a gifted thinkamancer, or one who's powers are being augmented by the Arkendish?

[Lightray]

Because Charlie's thinkagrams are guised in allusions to Stupidworld, our world. Even when there's no one else in the thinkagram for whom those allusions would be meaningful. Maggie has said she can alter her appearance in a thinkagram (when she's not running & falling on her face). Charlie must be able to do so, too.

So it seems likely that Charlie is deliberately choosing his appearance, and that deliberate choice makes it likely that his appearance is meaningful -- and known -- to Charlie. Plus, that sort of joke where he's secretly showing how clever he is, is right in line with what else we've seen from Charlie. His joke on the Slately ditto is the same sort of thing: he's mocking someone else to show his own superiority.

[oft wears hats]

That's a good point, but Erfworld is loaded to references to Stupidworld. Ansom performed DDR Fighting, Jack made an Erflife blimp veil, not to mention all the pop culture references living in the Magic Kingdom. It's possible that Charlie's picking those appearances because he's really from Stupidworld, but given all the other unrelated references we've seen, he could simply be following the same patterns as the rest of Erfworld.

[kaylasdad99]

Is the character's name actually Betelgeuse? I always thought it was Beetlejuice.

Anyway, I know which spelling I have to put into Google images to get a picture of Michael Keaton on the first page of results.

[oft wears hats]

If I recall correctly, his name is Betelgeuse, and he just uses the beetle + juice charade to explain his name to Lydia.

[Balance]

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99

Is the character's name actually Betelgeuse? I always thought it was Beetlejuice.

Yes, hence Adam's initial mispronunciation--he read it as something like "Bay-tel-gise", and Barbara had to correct him. (Of course, this is also the guy who thought they'd received a copy of Handbook for the Recently Diseased, so perhaps it's not dispositive.)

[Chronos]

It's also possible that Charlie isn't actually from Stupidworld, but nonetheless still has knowledge of us. As he himself says, this conversation will go much quicker if we just assume he knows everything, without worrying about how.

Personally, my hypothesis is that the Titans brought Parson in as a beta-tester, and Charlie is an internal alpha-tester. They're both trying deliberately to break the world, so that the Titans can see how to fix it.

[oft wears hats]

Book 2, Page 90 is up.

SPOILER:

I'm getting annoyed with the agonizingly slow story progress due to the multiple threads that keep getting juggled. Still, it was nice to see the more tactical side of Jojo, though his dialogue almost felt out of character.

[Lightray]

That dialogue felt like he should have twirled his moustaches.

[Chronos]

Meanwhile, in the text update, we learn something new about the nature of Erf: Jillian makes up a fake name for a nonexistent caster, but that fake name still somehow manages to fit the pattern of Erfworld names being Earth references. Did Jillian know that "Kiln Kenny" would be a suitable name for a Dirtamancer who makes ceramics? Did she know why it would be a suitable name? And how do new units get their names, anyway? Are they named by those who pop them, or do their names just arrive with them, automatically labeled with their stats?

[The Hamster King]

Originally Posted by oft wears hats

I'm getting annoyed with the agonizingly slow story progress due to the multiple threads that keep getting juggled.

Yeah. Parson started running down that damn tunnel in May 2011. It's really hard to sustain a sense of urgency when it takes 30 strips (a third of Book 2!) for him to cover 50 yards.

[Lightray]

Originally Posted by Chronos

And how do new units get their names, anyway? Are they named by those who pop them, or do their names just arrive with them, automatically labeled with their stats?

We've seen that Wanda knew her name immediately on being popped. And Jillian could have met a Kiln Kenny who was a dirtamancer at some point in tim, and just appropriated the name for her ruse.

[hogarth]

Originally Posted by The Hamster King

Yeah. Parson started running down that damn tunnel in May 2011. It's really hard to sustain a sense of urgency when it takes 30 strips (a third of Book 2!) for him to cover 50 yards.

I keep thinking "When are Itchy and Scratchy going to get to the fireworks factory?"

[Lightray]

New Text Erf that actually has some good info on captives' upkeep and Turn order and such. And I wouldn't have thought you could do that with dwagons so easily, or else why don't more Sides besides Gobwin Knob field dwagons?

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by Lightray

New Text Erf that actually has some good info on captives' upkeep and Turn order and such. And I wouldn't have thought you could do that with dwagons so easily, or else why don't more Sides besides Gobwin Knob field dwagons?

I suspect the fact that the dwagon "has just eaten three High Elves" may have facilitated the matter.

I might have thought that normally you'd either need the Arkenhammer to make using dwagons a practical matter, but Jillian had expected it to already be a Haffaton mount so clearly other sides ARE using them. Maybe certain cities pop different mounts, and most of the ones we've seen have popped other things (gwiffons and so forth).

[Balance]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

I might have thought that normally you'd either need the Arkenhammer to make using dwagons a practical matter, but Jillian had expected it to already be a Haffaton mount so clearly other sides ARE using them. Maybe certain cities pop different mounts, and most of the ones we've seen have popped other things (gwiffons and so forth).

Well, it's already established that you can tame feral non-speaking units. Vinny tamed a feral bat at one point; it could be that this is a general ability, not a special thing for Transylvitians and bats, although his familiarity with the bats may have helped. It could be as simple as offering the feral critter "rations". If it accepts, you've effectively "paid" its upkeep, and it joins your side. That's essentially what Jillian did in this update. It might be classified as "natural Hippiemancy". If so, the fact that Haffaton has a powerful Hippiemancer might result in them having an unusually high proportion of tamed units.

The Arkenhammer, on the other hand, seems to automatically tame all dwagons. Additionally, it apparently gives your side the ability to pop dwagons, as the Arkendish gives Charlescomm the ability to pop archons.

[Lightray]

New Erf

In related news, Monty Python's Lancelot is still on the horizon running madly and should arrive in-shot any moment now. Any moment. Still running. Any moment now.

[Chronos]

Text update

So, it appears that Charlie wants Jillian to escape-- There's no way he'd turn down deals from both sides unless he had some ulterior motive. But why? Is he getting worried about the Thousand-Pounders getting too big for their britches, too? Or is he trying to prove something?

And I think we can safely assume that the presence of the feral dwagon was somehow his doing, too. It just stretches coincidence too far otherwise, especially given that Fate is supposed to be punishing Jillian for choosing the very hard way.

[Lightray]

That Archon called Haffaton and offered to recapture Jillian for them (for a price). Haffaton refused. Jillian wouldn't reveal that she was a Faq unit, because she didn't want Charlie to know anything more about Faq. And Charlie does not appear to have been involved at all in the call (we know he lets his Archons have some field autonomy by following Charlie's Rules).

Charlie obviously is spying on Haffaton; that's why the Archons were there. But he's not using Jillian as a catspaw, and there's no reason to think he had anything to do with that dwagon.

[Chronos]

I just generally assume that Charlie has something to do with everything.

[by-tor]

New comic is up. The plot is threatening to think about moving forward.

I don't see why Parson needs lessons in the reality of war. Didn't he get that in book 1?

[Lightray]

Sheesh, this plotline is thudding along with all the speed of a car with square tires.

I suspect that Parson is going to step through into a garrison aflame, just as Slately switches capitols (and burns up), stranding all of Parson's casters in the Magic Kingdom.

[thinksnow]

I suspect Parson is going to step through just as the bombardment hits.
After that, I got nothing.

[One And Only Wanderers]

New Erf

http://www.erfworld.com/2012/10/book...80%93-page-92/

Guess who is still not thru the portal!

[Lightray]

Text Update

Guess Wanda really did play around with other types of Casting...

Oh, and the last comic didn't have Parson go through the portal, either. But we all expected that, didn't we?

[Lightray]

At long last... there is a new comic up. Wherein Parson does not go through the portal, of course.

Still more shoes to drop, apparently. Although I think we've been through the inventory of several Payless stores by this point. Whatever. Anyway, that's probably Charlie with the "one last thing", and looks like if/when Parson goes through, the Casters might not.

[One And Only Wanderers]

interesting tet update. Is Judy from Earth? is the nice man she let go Charlie?

[thinksnow]

New comic up. Looks like the Carny (Carnie...Carney?) is trying to get Parson through the gate now, right around the time the whole thing will come down on his head (that's my prediction and I'm sticking to it.)

[thinksnow]

He's at the gate! Even has a drumroll from the crowd.