The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > General Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:10 PM
Gary "Wombat" Robson Gary "Wombat" Robson is offline
Vombatus Moderatus
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,444
Why are the stars on the Republican elephant upside-down?

I was working on an ad design for one of my customers today. She's a Republican candidate running a post-primary "thank you" ad in my newspaper. She wanted a little Republican elephant logo in the corner of the ad. I grabbed the official logo, dropped it in the ad, put some stars down the side, and noticed something didn't look right.

The stars in the elephant logo are pointing down, not up like in the U.S. flag and all of my symbol fonts.

I did some Google searching for an answer and all I can find is claptrap about GW Bush changing the logo in 2000 to be a Satanic symbol. Nothing in Snopes. Nothing in Wikipedia. I searched the official GOP website and couldn't find anything, but all of the images in the GOP Store are, indeed, with stars pointing downward. The more I look, the more curious I get.

Does anyone know why the stars are flipped?

I posted this in GQ because I don't want a debate about Republicans being Satanists and I don't want to talk about the 2010 election - I'm looking for a factual answer to a logo design question. If you want to talk about whether Bush is the anti-Christ, please do it in GD, not in this thread!
__________________
Everything in moderation!
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:32 PM
Squink Squink is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Hardly a definitive answer, but I tried flipping them on your image, and the result lacked pizazz. With the rest all being somewhat dull smooth curves, that little bit of starry instability lifts the thing from being a humdrum symbol to something that might actually catch the eye.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:42 PM
Gary "Wombat" Robson Gary "Wombat" Robson is offline
Vombatus Moderatus
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,444
So far my favorite answer of what I've seen is that they're not flipped; they're leaning 36 degrees to the right.

Of course, they'd look the same if they were leaning 36 degrees to the left...
__________________
Everything in moderation!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:45 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: At the Diogenes Club
Posts: 47,876
Upside down or even slightly askew is not unusual in U.S. graphic arts; see the 1861 Ft. Sumter flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._flag_1861.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:40 PM
Superhal Superhal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
If Bush did it, it was obviously because of his dyslexia.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-22-2010, 03:08 AM
njtt njtt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Obviously it is because Republicans hate America (but don't want to be too obvious about it).
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-22-2010, 04:49 AM
naita naita is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Why they did that, I can't say, but I expect people just liked it better that way.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:32 AM
Rigamarole Rigamarole is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
The downward-pointing pentagram really is a Satanic symbol (well, more accurately the Sigil of Baphomet - the Republican logo lacks the goat head drawn inside of it). What's interesting is that some schools have actually banned pentagrams for having perceived associations with Satanism (later challenged on First Amendment grounds, of course). I wonder if those bans included Republican elephant logos?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-22-2010, 04:13 PM
Nars Glinley Nars Glinley is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
They're oriented from the position of the rider.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-22-2010, 04:23 PM
Giles Giles is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newcastle NSW
Posts: 11,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nars Glinley View Post
They're oriented from the position of the rider.
So the rider is upside down?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-22-2010, 04:53 PM
Wile E Wile E is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigamarole View Post
The downward-pointing pentagram really is a Satanic symbol (well, more accurately the Sigil of Baphomet - the Republican logo lacks the goat head drawn inside of it). What's interesting is that some schools have actually banned pentagrams for having perceived associations with Satanism (later challenged on First Amendment grounds, of course). I wonder if those bans included Republican elephant logos?
They were going to go with a goat but they wanted something bigger than a donkey.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-22-2010, 04:56 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Howdy
Posts: 14,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squink View Post
Hardly a definitive answer, but I tried flipping them on your image, and the result lacked pizazz. With the rest all being somewhat dull smooth curves, that little bit of starry instability lifts the thing from being a humdrum symbol to something that might actually catch the eye.
This would be my guess. Because of the round shape above them, they flow better in that orientation.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:00 PM
Dahnlor Dahnlor is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
The star on the Medal of Honor is also inverted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:11 PM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
Voodoo Adult (Slight Return)
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posts: 24,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahnlor View Post
The star on the Medal of Honor is also inverted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor
But that has a pretty obvious mechanical advantage.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:13 PM
Mr. Moto Mr. Moto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 12,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneadToKnow View Post
But that has a pretty obvious mechanical advantage.
One completely ignored with the Silver and Bronze Stars, right?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:24 PM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
Voodoo Adult (Slight Return)
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posts: 24,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moto View Post
One completely ignored with the Silver and Bronze Stars, right?
Evidently. Perhaps since the Medal of Honor is "the highest military decoration awarded by the United States government," they wanted to make sure it stayed attached.

Silver Star

Bronze Star

Last edited by KneadToKnow; 06-22-2010 at 05:25 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-05-2011, 07:44 AM
Skullso_OStars Skullso_OStars is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
The unside down stars is signifying the flag is upside down and is used a symbol of dire distress or duress. ITs not Satanic like a lot of people are thinking. The satanic symbol has two circles around it to show the separation of God.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-05-2011, 07:58 AM
zut zut is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 3,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary "Wombat" Robson View Post
...but all of the images in the GOP Store are, indeed, with stars pointing downward.
Weirdly, that's not true.

"Parking for Republicans Only"sign with stars upright.
"wee"publican bib with stars upright.

I suppose these aren'y official, so your question remains, but apparently whoever runs the GOP store isn't all that concerned about star orientation.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-05-2011, 08:18 AM
boytyperanma boytyperanma is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullso_OStars View Post
The unside down stars is signifying the flag is upside down and is used a symbol of dire distress or duress. ITs not Satanic like a lot of people are thinking. The satanic symbol has two circles around it to show the separation of God.
Raising zombies from the dead isn't satanic?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-05-2011, 09:12 AM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 26,544
The OP's Wikipedia link to the logo image no longer works.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-05-2011, 09:29 AM
Ca3799 Ca3799 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
naita

Why they did that, I can't say, but I expect people just liked it better that way.


I saw what you did there.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-05-2011, 09:30 AM
Ca3799 Ca3799 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Is anyone else having trouble with "quote"? It disappears when I start to type.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:14 AM
Babale Babale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca3799 View Post
naita

Why they did that, I can't say, but I expect people just liked it better that way.


I saw what you did there.
Istanbul song, right?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:20 AM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 26,544
Yes
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:37 AM
naita naita is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Also an honest answer to the OP.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-05-2011, 04:32 PM
Gary "Wombat" Robson Gary "Wombat" Robson is offline
Vombatus Moderatus
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
The OP's Wikipedia link to the logo image no longer works.
It looked like this.

I see they've updated the Wikipedia page to use a newer logo since I wrote that OP last year.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-05-2011, 09:27 PM
FatBaldGuy FatBaldGuy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SLC, USA
Posts: 4,052
Whatever the reason for the upside down stars, it definitely predates George Bush.

From here:
Quote:
A recent flap about the Republican National Committee defending its trademark for the logo led The Muser to the U.S. Trademark Applications and Registrations Retrieval database for Trademark No. 1908397. It appears that the current trademark registration was filed in 1993, and registered in 1995. The application cites a first use date in 1969 and includes the rule booklet from the 1972 Republican Convention, complete with upside-down logo stars.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-05-2011, 09:30 PM
ExTank ExTank is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Creve Coeur, MO
Posts: 5,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by njtt View Post
Obviously it is because Republicans hate America (but don't want to be too obvious about it).
I say some Democrat did it during the Nixon administration, and someone finally noticed.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:21 PM
BigT BigT is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary "Wombat" Robson View Post
It looked like this.

I see they've updated the Wikipedia page to use a newer logo since I wrote that OP last year.
The stars in it still point down, though.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-05-2011, 11:16 PM
Gary "Wombat" Robson Gary "Wombat" Robson is offline
Vombatus Moderatus
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
The stars in it still point down, though.
Aye. That they do.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-05-2011, 11:40 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner, VA, USA
Posts: 9,689
They don't point down. They are rotated 72 degrees counterclockwise.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-06-2011, 06:46 AM
Ficer67 Ficer67 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
The stars on the GOP Elephant are dancing around like politicians!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:14 AM
Mijin Mijin is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Well, what's in the down position of a clock face? The number 6.

So...6...6....and I dunno, if you flip the "p", it looks a bit like a 6. Maybe the elephant sits on it to bend it to the right shape?

Is anyone surprised?

Last edited by Mijin; 07-06-2011 at 07:15 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-06-2011, 09:09 AM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
Voodoo Adult (Slight Return)
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posts: 24,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookingWithGas View Post
They don't point down. They are rotated 72 degrees counterclockwise.
I was going to quibble over the left/right nature of "counterclockwise," but I think given how the word "conservative" now means "reactionary," you've got it exactly right.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-06-2011, 10:38 AM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner, VA, USA
Posts: 9,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneadToKnow View Post
I was going to quibble over the left/right nature of "counterclockwise," but I think given how the word "conservative" now means "reactionary," you've got it exactly right.
I guess you could also say that they tilt 72 degrees to the right
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-06-2011, 04:39 PM
Gary "Wombat" Robson Gary "Wombat" Robson is offline
Vombatus Moderatus
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,444
[moderating]
As much as I hate to moderate my own thread, zombie though it may be, everyone needs to remember that this is GQ, and we don't allow political jabs here. Please stick to the question.
[/moderating]
__________________
Everything in moderation!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-06-2011, 05:10 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 54,520
Quote:
They don't point down. They are rotated 72 degrees counterclockwise.
Was the math error a deliberate joke?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:58 PM
Gary "Wombat" Robson Gary "Wombat" Robson is offline
Vombatus Moderatus
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Was the math error a deliberate joke?
I took it as a joke, since rotating a 5-pointed star 72 degrees leaves it looking the same.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-06-2011, 08:01 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner, VA, USA
Posts: 9,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Was the math error a deliberate joke?
Uh, no

36.5 degrees
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-06-2011, 08:36 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner, VA, USA
Posts: 9,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookingWithGas View Post
Uh, no

36.5 degrees
It's just not my day. 36 degrees.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-06-2011, 09:00 PM
chacoguy chacoguy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookingWithGas View Post
It's just not my day. 36 degrees.
Now THAT'S Funny!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.