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Old 06-27-2010, 01:01 PM
TubaDiva TubaDiva is offline
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Does predator urine really deter coyotes?

Don't let the weird title fool you -- this is a serious problem and I'm desperately looking for an answer.

A long backstory and I apologize but it's necessary.

I live in a wooded suburban area in an older subdivision. There's little pockets of fairly deep woods all around these houses -- there's woods behind most everybody's house here.

Over the years I've seen deer pop out of the woods across the street, for example. We've seen other woodland creatures including rabbits and woodchucks and etc. Seen a fox a time or two as well.

Now we have coyotes. We never had them before but now we do.

I've never seen them but my neighbor who works really early hours and is up in the wee small hours has observed them walking down the street.

Normally I wouldn't care -- I like nature just fine and I believe in live and let live -- but in the past month I've lost two cats to this predator.

I'm desperately trying to keep our remaining animals inside -- we also have small dogs -- but once a cat has been allowed to be outside it's hell on earth keeping them inside. My Faith cat sneaked out with the dogs when they went for their last walk of the evening and we didn't see her. She went off on some kittycat adventure and we didn't know she was outside. Around 2 in the morning I awakened to some howling and screaming outside and when I got out to check it out it was too late. When we called the roll of kittycats it was obvious what had happened.

People tell me that sprinkling predator urine -- wolf urine is mentioned most often -- will deter coyotes and keep them off your property. If this is true I'm prepared to make the entire lot smell like eau d'wolf. But I can't believe this actually works.

Anyone have any experience with this?

And yes, I really want to track the coyote(s) down and shoot them dead. But there would just be more, there's always more, dammit.

Last edited by TubaDiva; 06-27-2010 at 01:04 PM. Reason: fix typo.
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:06 PM
Baron Skinley Von Clipper Baron Skinley Von Clipper is offline
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What sort of effect would the scent of wolf urine have on the cats mental stability?
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:15 AM
TubaDiva TubaDiva is offline
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My cats are crazy to begin with.

Seriously, I don't know what effect if would have, if any. This would be another thing I'd like to know.

Anyone have any experience using this kind of product?
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:20 PM
crazyjoe crazyjoe is offline
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I looked into it once for deterrents in the garden. Your problem is going to be that i's not cheap stuff, and water washes it away. So you will be continually re-applying this stuff at quite the cost. This is what kept me away from buying it, so I have no actual experience with its effectiveness.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:31 PM
Phlosphr Phlosphr is offline
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It does not work Tuba, here are the reasons why.

I do not know the geographic region you live in, but I do know coyote behavior. If there is a pack in your woods, they are feeding on something, meaning there is a temporary food source that when it is gone, the pack will move on. Sadly, the neighborhood percentage of cats and small dogs will have been dramatically reduced once the pack deems it is time to move. This is a sad by-product of urban sprawl, new developments and decreasing habitat for the coyotes.

No amount of wolf or cougar urine will stop a coyote from coming into your lawn to chase a food source for their young. Wild coyotes where I am from in Colorado, routinely wander the foothills well within known predator territory. There are mountain lions, and bears and coyotes all sharing the same habitat. Yes, they may try to avoid eachother, but the cougars are the top of the food chain. Coyotes are a food source when deer are not prevalent.

Keep your critters inside for the summer, the pack will certainly move on soon.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:31 PM
Si Amigo Si Amigo is offline
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The coyotes around here (SW Michigan) have never seen a wolf, let alone know what thier urine smells like; so I question the validity of using preditor based smells if the prey is unfamilar with them. Perhaps they have seen them from peeking in on me while I watch the Nature channel, but other than that they have no reason to associate any animal (other than man) as a threat.

Last edited by Si Amigo; 06-28-2010 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:32 PM
Dennis3240 Dennis3240 is offline
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Have you tried human urine?? I've heard mixed reviews but I hear human male urine will be a slight deterent to some animals. Male urine is best supposedly because it has the highest concentration of testosterone which supposedly is the active"deterent". Not positive that will work but it would be free and easy to do just as long as the neighbors don't see.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:22 PM
TubaDiva TubaDiva is offline
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Thank you for all your responses.

I tend to suspect Phlosphr is correct and there's not much I can do except strive to keep all my small animals inside.

Should be mentioned that I haven't seen a chipmunk or a rabbit around here in quite a while -- and even squirrels are rare these days. All part of the coyote diet, no doubt, and they moved up to pets when they cleaned out those sources.

I also haven't seen a deer in quite a while neither. So this makes me think that coyotes are trolling the area looking for what they can find because there's nothing left in the woods.

Vigilance is our only defense.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:45 AM
hldyrhorses hldyrhorses is offline
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Wolf urine

Hi Sorry about you pets. We were losing ducks to coyotes recently. They finally had started to dig under our chain link fence so I started putting out wolf urine in small containers you can hang on the fence. If you just sprinkle it the rain dilutes it too quickly - I'm in WA. Anyway, it has worked for us. I have heard male human urine works also.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:06 PM
scrannel scrannel is offline
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See this post is a bit old, but thought I'd add my two cents:

In So. California we have plenty of "gentrified" coyotes walking our streets and killing our pets. First of all, yes, they will respond to wolf urine, it take hundreds if not thousands of years for an animal's built-in reaction to their most dangerous predators to be neutralized by removing that predator from the ecosystem. And yes, we have throw the balance off by killing wolves. But the fear of wolves remains.

Coyotes generally fear large dogs, but when they hunt in packs they will take German Shepherds no problem.

A way to deter coyote incursion on your property is to go after them with a vengeance when they decide to visit. Throw rocks, scream, swing an aluminum baseball bat. Incredibly effective, especially if they must climb a chain link fence to get into your yard. They will remember you.

Using wolf urine can cause unexpected side effects. When I would take our dogs out in the morning, if there were rabbits on the lawn, we knew coyotes were not around. We've had a lot of coyotes in the past year plus and rabbits have been scarce. About a week after going to wolf urine... it's rabbit fiesta time on our lawn! Now... what urine keeps away rabbits..?

Last edited by scrannel; 04-23-2012 at 01:09 PM.
  #11  
Old 04-23-2012, 01:28 PM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is online now
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Coyotes are highly intelligent and are quite capable of overcoming an instinctive fear if the risk vs reward assessment looks good to them. If I had to guess I would say whether even freshly applied wolf urine would deter them would depend on how hungry they were and whether they knew from previous experience that there was prey to be had in that location.

If it was me, I would build a coyote-proof outdoor cat run, possibly against the house so the cats could get indoors through a window or cat door. Something out of cyclone fencing with a wire roof and either a concrete floor or a buried L of heavy wire fencing to keep the 'yotes from digging under. If you google it you'll get lots of ideas.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:39 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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The effectiveness of predator urine is disputed, and I have also heard that it is not obtained in a humane manner.

"To make it possible to collect their urine, animals like wolves, foxes, bobats and deer are held in cruel, cramped conditions. Often fur farms will collect and sell urine as a side business."

As a side note, I sometimes make an effort to walk my Labrador near young trees in my yard that are susceptible to deer browsing, in hopes that she will pee around them and discourage the deer. I have no evidence that this works.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:51 PM
Tomcatlyons Tomcatlyons is offline
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does human urine deter coyotes

This is a reply to also interest me. I've heard this theory just awhile ago. I have a small cat sanctuary including a few bengals. I built a security fence on top of the existing chain link fence which works great. Only problem was, one of my male bengals had a amazing skill of escape. He studied the fence which is 8 ft high in places and all he did was jump straight up to the tip of the 45 deg angle post and position himself and launch. He was gone.

Being he was only 16 mo old and no exp in the outside world and ventured right into a bad situation with coyotes. The rest is history even though he made his way back to my front yard to my amazement. He died a few minutes later because of violent injuries to his abdoman. It was a emotional time. I didn't have the resources to set up an electical wire at the time. The rest of my cats don't make an escape because they are unable to.

Like the gentleman that lost his cat in the woods that night. I feel like him. All I want to do is kill coyotes. I'm in the desert so the coyotes use the washes for there main stream. There really thick down here and doesn't matter how many you kill. There's more behind them.

I feel bad for others with small pets also. Here I live in a city and pay taxes but, it's against city regs to build a wall not higher than 5 ft or fence higher than 6 ft. around your property, but it's ok if coyotes climbs your fence to abduct a pet and eat it. and you can't shoot it. Of coure I improvise, but it's the principle. If you live outside city limits you can shoot as many as you want, but, then, snakes, cougars, bobcats and the like are more to contend with. Guess it depends on how important your pets are to you. Build the best fence you can and play a tape or cd of sound effects of a cougar snarling or bobcats growling at 15 min intervals during the night with speakrs well positioned outside with low volume of close actual decibals. My neighbors don't complain because they also have small pets. It works pretty good. It's a lot of work, but that's another story.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:22 AM
scrannel scrannel is offline
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First of all, if it's true that this urine is collected in inhumane ways, I will stop using it.

I am in Malibu, have lived with coyotes here since 1989. Each area is different, I'm sure, but they do seem to travel through my area in nearly predictable periods. I majored in geology with emphasis in vertebrate paleontology. The wolf was (and IS) the most important predator in North America. Without the wolf the ecosystem is way out of kilter. The wolf survived the North American extinctions (that the sabre tooth cats did not).

Coyotes fear wolves. But, coyotes, working in packs, are very dangerous. And, although native Americans modeled the Trickster after coyote because of his cunning and ruthlessness, they are not perfect predators. When I first moved to my current location, we never even saw a coyote for the first few years. But, we did see a lot of bob cats. I was told that bob cats go after coyote young. But? Then, suddenly, coyotes appear and bob cats vanished.

We've had a number of cats here and they were brought up at our first home in the hills near Malibu. NONE were ever killed by coyotes. And they traveled a lot. We currently have a Maine Coon Cat who frequently ranges deep into the Santa Monica Mountains, and thus far, always comes home (five years now). After we moved to our new home -- before we got the Maine Coon -- we lost two house cats to coyotes. So...? Maybe some cats are just smart?

We are allowed to kill coyotes here. But... you can't shoot them. The preferred deterrent method is pellet gun, which also leaves a lasting impression. But, to repeat myself, the most effective method I've tried is going after any coyote intruder like you are going to rip their livers out. As the link on predator urine above says: “Carry a big stick, make a lot of noise. These are the things that are going to stop the attacks.”

Last edited by scrannel; 04-24-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:32 AM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Predators are aliens, usually invisible from some kind of cloaking device. How on earth do you collect their urine?

Also, I'd wonder if your neighbor actually saw coyotes walking down the street and not some dogs. Coyotes are generally very cautious and avoid open spaces. Not that all coyotes are alike and behave the same either, just something to wonder about.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:53 AM
FasterThanMeerkats FasterThanMeerkats is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Also, I'd wonder if your neighbor actually saw coyotes walking down the street and not some dogs. Coyotes are generally very cautious and avoid open spaces. Not that all coyotes are alike and behave the same either, just something to wonder about.
Actually, one evening last year I was out on a front porch in a suburban neighborhood of Charlotte and saw two coyotes trotting up the middle of the street easy as you please. It was pretty cool. (And yes, I grew up in rural TN, so I do know what they look like )
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:27 AM
scrannel scrannel is offline
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In southern Ca? You're joking, right? They are often in the streets. It's a serious issue out here:

http://sagehen.ucnrs.org/Documents/v...ife/coyote.pdf

And, I presume you all read about that young Canadian Folk singer who was killed by coyotes?

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-10-29/e...?_s=PM:SHOWBIZ

Look, let's be frank: if you want to blame anyone for coyotes being out of control, aim at the beef industry in the United States. The destruction of the wolf population is all about keeping the world safe for hamburgers. The reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone has created an amazing return to a natural balance, including -- believe it or not -- improved tree growth.

http://www.capitalpress.com/newslett...-wolves-010212

Last edited by scrannel; 04-24-2012 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:50 AM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasterThanMeerkats View Post
Actually, one evening last year I was out on a front porch in a suburban neighborhood of Charlotte and saw two coyotes trotting up the middle of the street easy as you please. It was pretty cool. (And yes, I grew up in rural TN, so I do know what they look like )
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Originally Posted by scrannel View Post
In southern Ca? You're joking, right? They are often in the streets. It's a serious issue out here:
I thought I'd hear about coyotes in the open as soon as I wrote that. Around here it's very rare to see a live coyote without binoculars. Most of the time there isn't confirmation of coyotes, just pets and feral cats disappearing. The animal control guys used to track their infilitration from the number of dead coyotes on the highway, but evolution seems to have eliminated the 'crossing the highway at night gene' from the local population. People don't fear attacks on themselves from coyotes around here, but they don't want their pets disappearing, and their is a fear that if they get hungry enough, the coyotes might attack children.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:12 PM
colonial colonial is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Amigo View Post
The coyotes around here (SW Michigan) have never seen a wolf, let alone know what thier urine smells like; so I question the validity of using preditor based smells if the prey is unfamilar with them. Perhaps they have seen them from peeking in on me while I watch the Nature channel, but other than that they have no reason to associate any animal (other than man) as a threat.
Genetic instinct can instill fear absent personal experience.

A friend of mine who lives in the country was having problems with deer feeding
off his landscaping.

In the next county over there is a private zoo of dozens to maybe 100s of big cats--
tigers, leopards, etc.

My friend was able to obtain a pickup truck bed full of tiger shit, which he carted
and shovelled all over his property and guess what?-- no deer!

There have never been any tigers in the Americas, nor any big cats of any kind
in this area probably for 200 years.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:24 PM
Gary Robson Gary Robson is offline
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A few points:

1) I live in an area that has plenty of coyotes, overlapping mountain lion territories, and the occasional wolf. There are established wolf pack territories within about 20 miles of here. Our native coyotes encounter wolf/cougar urine on a regular basis. They coyotes are obviously wary of them (a single coyote is no match for a mountain lion or wolf), but won't leave the area.

2) As colonial mentioned, this approach does work with prey animals. There's a waiting list for mountain lion scat from the local nature center, as it keeps the deer away.

3) Shooting the coyotes is not the answer. I have read some interesting studies about that. When counties offer bounties for dead coyotes, the females go into heat more often and have larger litters. Setting up bounties will often increase the coyote population in an area.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:59 AM
scrannel scrannel is offline
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Worth a read:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...-Slinkers.html
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:04 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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Originally Posted by Phlosphr View Post
I do not know the geographic region you live in, but I do know coyote behavior. If there is a pack in your woods, they are feeding on something, meaning there is a temporary food source that when it is gone, the pack will move on. Sadly, the neighborhood percentage of cats and small dogs will have been dramatically reduced once the pack deems it is time to move. This is a sad by-product of urban sprawl, new developments and decreasing habitat for the coyotes.
Urban sprawl is increasing coyote habitat. The range of the coyote has greatly increased since European settlement of North America. There is now plentiful year round food in places where previously there was not.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:07 PM
cynyc cynyc is offline
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Yeah, TD, stop encroaching on the coyotes. Move! :-)

Maybe some kind of trip wire or electronic detector that will set of all kinds of sounds and flashing lights or banging cans and pots or something?

Then of course your neighbors will be your predators.

No wild boar as well?

Here to help.

I GOT IT! TUBA!
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and I've told them all." ~~ I said that

Last edited by cynyc; 04-27-2012 at 03:09 PM.
  #24  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:32 AM
scrannel scrannel is offline
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Urban sprawl is increasing coyote habitat. The range of the coyote has greatly increased since European settlement of North America. There is now plentiful year round food in places where previously there was not.
This is only partially the case. I grew up in Vermont and never even heard of coyotes except in bad westerns. Now, they are present. Again, if you remove the top predator from the ecosystem, you change everything from the top down. Removing the wolf -- because of its interference with our food products -- is what has caused the coyote population to expand.

The Bureau of Land Management is, essentially, in the pocket of the beef industry and -- unless they get their hands slapped -- will do anything for that industry. Cattle and sheep are incredibly destructive to the range, they are not natural and never have been natural, to North America. Yet the wolf, horse and Bison which once -- naturally -- flourished here, are declared a danger to the ecosystem. I was brought up as a hunter, but I'm also a trained scientist, and the intellectual gymnastics the BLM goes through to justify their policies are truly disgraceful.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:28 PM
Trijem777 Trijem777 is offline
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Urine or Ur out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis3240 View Post
Have you tried human urine?? I've heard mixed reviews but I hear human male urine will be a slight deterent to some animals. Male urine is best supposedly because it has the highest concentration of testosterone which supposedly is the active"deterent". Not positive that will work but it would be free and easy to do just as long as the neighbors don't see.
I've done this around my house and i think it helps. You don't have to go out and pee, fearful of some snoopy neighbor catching you.
Stay in the privacy of your own house or garage... get a Bottle or jug or some sort of Seal-able container to urinate into, then ladle or pour it into a spray bottle. Take said spray bottle around the yard and spray to your hearts content!
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:47 AM
LMarie LMarie is offline
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It won't hurt to give predator urine a try, but don't forget to take other steps as well like not leaving pet food outside, securing your trash and remaining vigilant.

Unfortunately, coyotes are everywhere. I used to live in a fairly populated city and would often see them around dusk. One night, I had several of them howling on my front lawn at around 2a. When I called animal control, they informed me that there wasn't anything that could be done and that they get reports of them all the time and at all hours. The officer that I spoke with told me that she's personally seen one at 3 in the afternoon walking down a fairly busy street. She was off duty and picking her daughter up from school, but said that the coyote could have cared less about the foot and car traffic all around.

When I looked into their habits further, I found out that they are literally everywhere in the U.S. even in busy places like Manhattan and Los Angeles. They usually sleep during the day and are often right beneath our noses in parks and fields, but go unnoticed as they curl up like a cat does and sleep in burrows or tunnels until the sun begins to set. They hunt at night, but if they don't get enough to eat, they will continue hunting into the daytime hours until they are fed. Some hunt alone and some hunt in packs. They are also on the prowl more during the spring and early summer, which is when they usually have pups to feed.

Coyotes will also snatch an animal sitting right next to a human, so be aware of this even when you're outside guarding your pets. There are a ton of YouTube videos showing their behavior, which is basically to shadow people or animals until they strike. A lone coyote will even attempt an attack on a large dog. They approach from behind and initially act as though they're playing with the animal until they can get the right angle. This really worries me about animals that are left outside on a chain and can't fully maneuver or run away.

The good thing is that animals, even cats, can fight a lone coyote off. Not only have I seen it on video, but I think one of my cats had a coyote encounter and survived. The bites on his hind area were consistent with coyote bites and the vet said that they definitely weren't from another cat. He almost lost a tail in the fight and the surgery cost me a lot, but he survived. At that time, I didn't know coyotes were in the area, but after I learned that they were a lot of my cat's behavior was explained. He's super-duper alert outside and will viciously attack any animal that steps foot in his territory (even large dogs). Before the incident, he just wanted to play when he encountered possums, squirrels, rats, dogs, etc., but since then he turns into a little monster when another animal is around.

He's also no dummy and will run the moment he feels he can't win. Before I knew about the coyotes, a couple of times I'd come home after dark and would find him stuck on the roof (he climbed up and couldn't get down) or perched on top of a fence refusing to come down for hours and acting very guarded. Can't prove it, but after discovering coyotes in the neighborhood, I attributed that behavior to avoiding encounters. My girl cat, on the other hand, is another story. I don't know if she's fearless or just oblivious to danger, but she's so nonchalant about other humans and animals being nearby that I have to keep a very close watch on her. My boy, however, isn't letting anyone or anything within a 10-foot radius of him without a fight.

In some of the videos on YouTube, you can see people walking down the street without a clue that a coyote is closely shadowing their every move particularly when people are walking their pets. A few months ago, I read a story where a man was sitting on his front porch with his cat when a coyote came out of nowhere and snatched the cat. At around that same time, a couple was out walking their two dogs when a coyote came out of nowhere and snatched one of the dogs. And, of course, sadly, there are always reports of coyotes snatching children out of yards and from playgrounds even while caretakers are nearby. They usually survive as coyotes can be fought off by an adult, but a toddler was killed by one a couple of years ago when her mom went inside for a quick minute not realizing a coyote was lurking. Neighbors felt horrible as they'd seen the coyote in the neighborhood for days before, but didn't work to alert everyone of their presence. Had the mom known, I'm sure she wouldn't have taken her eyes off of her daughter for even a second.

I live in the desert now and while I haven't seen one here yet, I know they're here. My cats still go outside, but only in the daytime (I actually stopped letting them enjoy summer evenings after discovering coyotes were in my old neighborhood). I know the pain of trying to keep indoor/outdoor cats inside and I know it's a risk allowing them outside, but it's life. I just try to be as cautious as possible and pray a lot!

If you try predator urine and it works, please remember to let us know.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:02 PM
purplehorseshoe purplehorseshoe is offline
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NOTE: zombie thread, Tuba asked the question three years ago. (On the dot ... what's up with that?)
  #28  
Old 06-27-2013, 12:15 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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RE: this article...coyotes have been spotted trying to swim across Long Island Sound?

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Old 06-27-2013, 01:34 PM
Troppus Troppus is offline
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My malamute and two Australian Shepards were laying beside me as I worked in the garden and a coyote snatched a beagle pup from under my feet and ran at 9 in the morning. The urine of my big dogs did not dissuade the pack. The presence of me or my big dogs didn't stop the pack. Coyotes are fast, they are clever, they are opportunistic and fill the apex predator role well.

Your pack will move on when it runs out of things to eat, and bear in mind that someone in your neighborhood may be feeding them. A poster here used to share video of feeding coyotes, foxes, coons and opossums. Best plan is to write letters to the editor or ask a local naturalist or reporter to do an educational piece on how to keep your pets safe, rabies, don't feed the wildlife etc. Make sure that everyone knows to keep the pets and pet food indoors, trash locked up, and not to feed the coyotes.
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:43 PM
LMarie LMarie is offline
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Sorry about your dog, Troppus. That must've been very hard to deal with seeing as you were so near.

You are right that people feeding them is also a problem. More education is needed in order for people to realize the danger they're attracting to a neighborhood by doing so.

I also wanted to add that they'll eat most anything including fallen fruit from nearby trees and insects, so it's important to keep gardens as clean as possible.
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:07 PM
Troppus Troppus is offline
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The pup was a stray which wandered in just a few days before and I hadn't had much time to grow attached to her. I'm going to include a description for educational purposes but I'll spoiler it. Do not read if you will be bothered by learning about the death of a pet. This is a gruesome story I'm only telling in order to discourage anyone from feeding or encouraging coyotes. They have a niche, but as opportunists of the highest order, they need no help from humans in order to thrive and breed.

SPOILER:
My garden was fenced and the big dogs were sitting and laying within a few feet of me, pup underfoot. The coyote trotted through the open gate and while I was registering the fact that the scruffy German Shepard trotting right towards me was actually a coyote, she darted in and grabbed the 9 pound pup by the middle of her spine and ran while shaking it. I heard her neck or back snap and the pup died instantly. The coyote scooted under a fence via a scraped out hole I hadn't even noticed and ran into the weeds. The big dogs gave chase but wasted valuable time trying to squeeze under the hole the coyote used to escape then had to give up and run out the open gate and never caught up to her. The pup never made a sound. If I hadn't seen the attack happen I would have assumed she disappeared into thin air. I imagine the coyote had been watching us for quite awhile before my work brought me and the pup close enough to her escape route. I knew coyotes were living on my farm as they'd killed a couple fawns, but the sight of the coyote just casually trotting up to me while holding eye contact really threw me. It looked all the world like a friendly mutt coming up to introduce itself. I was young, quick, and strong but only had seconds to react before it was on the pup and running and my lunge for it was a lame and foolish attempt to intervene. I felt terrible years after it happened. Still do.
  #32  
Old 06-27-2013, 02:17 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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I'm surprised your big dogs didn't react in a territorial manner to scare the coyote away.
  #33  
Old 06-27-2013, 02:29 PM
Troppus Troppus is offline
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Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
I'm surprised your big dogs didn't react in a territorial manner to scare the coyote away.
The presence of the coyotes was such a constant that I suppose the smell wasn't a new one. And the dogs stayed exhausted from running the coyotes all night. We see coyotes day and night around here, and most keep their distance from people and large dogs. I think my dogs were as smug as I was that no single coyote would dare approach us alone in the middle of the day.
  #34  
Old 06-27-2013, 06:08 PM
LMarie LMarie is offline
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Originally Posted by Troppus View Post
The pup was a stray which wandered in just a few days before and I hadn't had much time to grow attached to her. I'm going to include a description for educational purposes but I'll spoiler it. Do not read if you will be bothered by learning about the death of a pet. This is a gruesome story I'm only telling in order to discourage anyone from feeding or encouraging coyotes. They have a niche, but as opportunists of the highest order, they need no help from humans in order to thrive and breed.
Actually, reading the spoiler actually made me feel a wee bit better. Doesn't sound like the pup suffered or even had time to register what was happening. I know that doesn't make it any easier for you to have witnessed, but still.

Going to check on my cats now.
  #35  
Old 06-27-2013, 08:01 PM
Gary Robson Gary Robson is offline
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Originally Posted by Troppus View Post
Coyotes are fast, they are clever, they are opportunistic and fill the apex predator role well.
You've gained a very different view of coyotes than I have. Around here, they are quite a few notches down from the apex predator role (following wolves, grizzlies, mountain lions, black bears, possibly wolverines, and obviously humans). They are most definitely fast, clever, and opportunistic, but they can't afford to get cocky, as some of the critters on the rungs above them kill them just for entertainment. The coyotes around here don't show themselves much. Even predators that arguable share the same spot in the ecosystem (bobcats, red foxes, lynxes...) will kill a coyote if they can.

Okay, I know it's not really for entertainment. The big guys just don't want to share their territory with competing predators.
  #36  
Old 06-27-2013, 08:21 PM
Troppus Troppus is offline
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Originally Posted by Gary "Wombat" Robson View Post
You've gained a very different view of coyotes than I have. Around here, they are quite a few notches down from the apex predator role (following wolves, grizzlies, mountain lions, black bears, possibly wolverines, and obviously humans). They are most definitely fast, clever, and opportunistic, but they can't afford to get cocky, as some of the critters on the rungs above them kill them just for entertainment. The coyotes around here don't show themselves much. Even predators that arguable share the same spot in the ecosystem (bobcats, red foxes, lynxes...) will kill a coyote if they can.

Okay, I know it's not really for entertainment. The big guys just don't want to share their territory with competing predators.
I'm in the Appalachians, where the mountain lions are mere legend, grizzlies don't exist, and humans swing between hunter and hippies with little moderate common sense. It's darn hard to kill something which looks like a skinny, hungry dog, because we all love dogs, don't we? And though the black bears are enjoying a boom year, but they don't bother with the coyotes because black bears are trash can masters while coyotes forage under bird feeders like sorry, furry chickens. They'll eat anything, especially cats. We're about to have a turf war with the mangy opportunistic predators. They are coming into their glory days.

No, seriously, 200+ years of farmers with shotguns and a Biblical predjudice against predatory animals have left a huge hole for coyotes to fill. They aren't even scrawny anymore. They are bold, they are plump, they bear shiny coats, strong teeth and a wiley sense of traffic. The feral cat population is padding their numbers. This animal loving vegetarian and wildlife advocate is preparing to shoot to kill, not to protect my outdoor pets (I know better) and not because I think that shooting the coyotes I see will have any real impact on the population (I know that killing the hunting Alphas will trigger the entire pack to ovulate and breed) but because I intend to cull those coyotes which have learned how to make a living off human ignorance and arrogance. We're not always in charge here.
  #37  
Old 08-09-2017, 05:11 AM
KimTerrified KimTerrified is offline
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WOW- Fishers?

Anyone know anything about Fishers? I found this blog and really hope someone can give me some information.
I live in upstate NY - WAYY out in the country. One neighbor who is rarely home, completely covered by woods except about a 2 acre span of my land that I try to keep mowed. We have a second lot that leads to a corn field. When I first moved here we had beautiful deer, a few possum, lots of coyotes calls at night, but never was I really worried. I figured I'd always 'see' or 'hear' any danger and although I was cautious, have never had any problem. Had a cat who used to refuse to come in at night, out all day hunting, would come in about 2-3 am. No problem. I was worried but hearing him holler all night was worse.

Since all this - coyote calls have stopped - used to hear about 30 in the next lot. They were so loud I could hear them over my TV. I only see a few deer now and then eating off my crabapple tree. No rabbits anymore - no possum - my newest cat, the other died a natural death - is very naive, loves to hunt, brought here after my mother passed on, is a small town cat used to visit all the neighbors around town, but now, we have a whole new scene. He's been out and about for almost a year. Unbelievably so he's made it home every day, and I try to get him in by 7-8 at night. He loves to go out in the early morning to do his hunting and I have let him go. However, the other morning, he was out, I had gone back to bed with my window opened and heard............... little growling, snarling, little bit, but it woke me up.. a little more and I got up out of bed.Looked out my window and against a flower box near my house is my cat with a fisher in front of him! I was TERRIFIED! Only through research did I know what this was... I had heard they were around, but stupid me, never though one would get this close to my house.. (cabin). Screaming, hollering, my cat just stood there without a clue what this thing was, and only with this Fisher making advances did my cat start to raise his back. My screaming wasn't working. NO reaction from the fisher at all. But I started pounding on the wood, raising holy *** and he backed off. I ran from my window to the front door ONLY to find out, my cat followed the Fisher! Terrified I kept calling the cat. I was pacing back and forth not knowing what to do and kept going back to the front door to call him, when he came around the corner. (My cat).. but still wouldn't come in. Looking around and around, he didn't have a clue the danger, but the fisher had left or was lurking someplace out of sight. I grabbed the cat and threw him inside.

I did more research the rest of the morning, call my local Environmental Forestry ranger all without any answers. Came to the only conclusion that besides keeping my now very upset cat inside, he's not hollered one time to go back out.. I think he finally 'gets it'.. he's very quiet now and is definitely on guard. It has completely changed his personality. One encounter did this and he wasn't even struck by this animal. But one question I Have is I bought Wolf Urine, But will Wolf Urine ATTRACT other's wolves looking for a mate? We have very very few wolves here, none that I have even seen, but I know others have, however will it keep fishers away?

WHO has information about these fishers? Especially so close to my house? He was right outside my window.

OMG. HELP!
  #38  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:11 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Man, I knew Carrie faked her death!
  #39  
Old 08-09-2017, 08:40 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is offline
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Does Predator urine really deter coyotes?

Of course!

It's green and glows in the dark!
  #40  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:09 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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I would think that a fisher-cat would be big enough that, while a coyote probably could kill one, it'd be risky for the coyote, and that it'd prefer to go after easier prey.

Wait, are we talking about the cat, or the weasel, when we say "fisher"? I thought the former, but now that I'm looking online, I'm seeing info on the latter.
  #41  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:29 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrannel View Post
About a week after going to wolf urine... it's rabbit fiesta time on our lawn! Now... what urine keeps away rabbits..?
I've had some success using coyote urine in my garden for that...

It will not, however, deter a snapping turtle from coming into your garden and eating all your lettuce and other greens.
  #42  
Old 08-09-2017, 10:15 AM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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The problem with using predator urine is it might deter the prey animals ... but it also might attract the predators from whence the urine came from ... coyote urine attracts coyotes, puma urine attracts pumas etc etc etc ... that's why they sell urine at trapper supply stores ... sprinkle a little wolf urine in front of a #3-1/2 foot hold trap and presto, you'll catch a wolf !!!
  #43  
Old 08-09-2017, 10:28 AM
Flyer Flyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
The problem with using predator urine is it might deter the prey animals ... but it also might attract the predators from whence the urine came from ... coyote urine attracts coyotes, puma urine attracts pumas etc etc etc ... that's why they sell urine at trapper supply stores ... sprinkle a little wolf urine in front of a #3-1/2 foot hold trap and presto, you'll catch a wolf !!!
Are you speaking from personal experience? If so, how did you get free?
  #44  
Old 08-09-2017, 10:33 AM
puddleglum puddleglum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimTerrified View Post
Anyone know anything about Fishers? I found this blog and really hope someone can give me some information.
I live in upstate NY - WAYY out in the country. One neighbor who is rarely home, completely covered by woods except about a 2 acre span of my land that I try to keep mowed. We have a second lot that leads to a corn field. When I first moved here we had beautiful deer, a few possum, lots of coyotes calls at night, but never was I really worried. I figured I'd always 'see' or 'hear' any danger and although I was cautious, have never had any problem. Had a cat who used to refuse to come in at night, out all day hunting, would come in about 2-3 am. No problem. I was worried but hearing him holler all night was worse.

Since all this - coyote calls have stopped - used to hear about 30 in the next lot. They were so loud I could hear them over my TV. I only see a few deer now and then eating off my crabapple tree. No rabbits anymore - no possum - my newest cat, the other died a natural death - is very naive, loves to hunt, brought here after my mother passed on, is a small town cat used to visit all the neighbors around town, but now, we have a whole new scene. He's been out and about for almost a year. Unbelievably so he's made it home every day, and I try to get him in by 7-8 at night. He loves to go out in the early morning to do his hunting and I have let him go. However, the other morning, he was out, I had gone back to bed with my window opened and heard............... little growling, snarling, little bit, but it woke me up.. a little more and I got up out of bed.Looked out my window and against a flower box near my house is my cat with a fisher in front of him! I was TERRIFIED! Only through research did I know what this was... I had heard they were around, but stupid me, never though one would get this close to my house.. (cabin). Screaming, hollering, my cat just stood there without a clue what this thing was, and only with this Fisher making advances did my cat start to raise his back. My screaming wasn't working. NO reaction from the fisher at all. But I started pounding on the wood, raising holy *** and he backed off. I ran from my window to the front door ONLY to find out, my cat followed the Fisher! Terrified I kept calling the cat. I was pacing back and forth not knowing what to do and kept going back to the front door to call him, when he came around the corner. (My cat).. but still wouldn't come in. Looking around and around, he didn't have a clue the danger, but the fisher had left or was lurking someplace out of sight. I grabbed the cat and threw him inside.

I did more research the rest of the morning, call my local Environmental Forestry ranger all without any answers. Came to the only conclusion that besides keeping my now very upset cat inside, he's not hollered one time to go back out.. I think he finally 'gets it'.. he's very quiet now and is definitely on guard. It has completely changed his personality. One encounter did this and he wasn't even struck by this animal. But one question I Have is I bought Wolf Urine, But will Wolf Urine ATTRACT other's wolves looking for a mate? We have very very few wolves here, none that I have even seen, but I know others have, however will it keep fishers away?

WHO has information about these fishers? Especially so close to my house? He was right outside my window.

OMG. HELP!
A New Hampshire Fish and Wildlife study of the stomach content of 1,000 fishers only found one with cat hair. This would indicate that fisher predation of cats is extremely rare and your cat has little to worry about from the fisher. If there are squirrels in your neighborhood that is what fishers prefer to eat. Coyotes are a much bigger danger to cats and cats make up about 10% of a coyote's diet.
Wolves are not a problem in New York as only one has been found there in the last 25 years.
  #45  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:24 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
Are you speaking from personal experience? If so, how did you get free?
Some eco-freak greenies happened by ... "Oh the poor majestic beast, we have to set him free" ... they sure were surprised when I turned and bit them ... but lesson learned, one territory mark beware ... any wolf worth his hide is going to piss on everything ... Speaking of which, are we going to replace the carpet in here someday?

Last edited by watchwolf49; 08-09-2017 at 03:27 PM. Reason: "Majestic beast" my ass ...
  #46  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:26 PM
rat avatar rat avatar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Robson View Post
You've gained a very different view of coyotes than I have. Around here, they are quite a few notches down from the apex predator role (following wolves, grizzlies, mountain lions, black bears, possibly wolverines, and obviously humans). They are most definitely fast, clever, and opportunistic, but they can't afford to get cocky, as some of the critters on the rungs above them kill them just for entertainment. The coyotes around here don't show themselves much. Even predators that arguable share the same spot in the ecosystem (bobcats, red foxes, lynxes...) will kill a coyote if they can.

Okay, I know it's not really for entertainment. The big guys just don't want to share their territory with competing predators.

A resident coyote pack will actively try to steal a black bears cub, as documented by a couple of random stories here.

http://www.kulr8.com/story/35636540/...bear-vs-coyote

http://www.latimes.com/socal/la-cana...602-story.html

But even in the case of grey wolves, competition seems to be the main control on coyote population, and while the numbers did drop in Yellowstone for example that drop in population was only about 1/3 and not total evacuation.

Cougars may sometimes kill a coyote just as a coyote may kill a bobcat from time to time but these are occasional occurrences and not a hard rule. But crazy enough I have actually watch a badger and a coyote hunting together, and the coyote actually groomed the badger after they had both caught several squeekies (ground squirrels) working together.

I shoot a lot of nature photography, and unfortunately most of it is wide angle time lapse so I didn't have the right camera to take pictures but I have seen coyotes hanging out waiting for their chance on a kill, or in times/areas of less food rushing up to try and steal food from other larger predators. And when bellies are empty obviously the competition and tensions rise.

But most related to the OP, I live deep in the city of Seattle, and I have routinely seen coyotes walking directly next to a dog park at night. They are smart enough to be nocturnal in the deep city, but they seemed to be more interested in the high number of rats as a food source than carrying about epic amounts of dog/(wolf) urine.

My understanding may be incorrect, but it seems that the coyotes that are in very urban areas seem to be in pairs or solo. I assume that they do not have strongly defended territories and I doubt that detecting another predators markings does anything but alert them to needing to keep their guard up.

I can understand the difficulty in trying to keep a former outside cat indoors, but the average lifespan of an feral cat in a group is ~5 years, and only a couple when solo.
Compared to almost 20 for indoor pets, the numbers show how great the risk is. But relating to coyotes night time is the highest risk if you are in an urban area.
  #47  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:46 PM
GusNSpot GusNSpot is offline
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Several years ago when we lived across the street from a State Park I put a lot of different foods out at night and used a trail camera to see who came buy. I posted many of them here at the SDMB. Coyotes were common visitors plus many more things/critters.

We had 7-9 cats at the time and we would put them up at night. Most folks did around there, even those with big dogs.

Biggest problem was hawks & owls getting kittens in the day time. Had to be careful there.

Several times we had on of our cats sitting 10 feet from a fox or two that was at the food place just about 20 feet from our front door watching them eat.

Sometimes we had 5 different animals eating at the same time. A lot of times the coyotes would wait back in the woods until some other group would finish.

No neighbors had less then 3 acres and no one was across the street at all, State Park.

Only comments was about dogs that got into a chicken pen or, "Did you get to see the black mountain lion so & so got on his trail camera?"

A few black bear sightings but there were not that many around that park.

So, feeding all the critters did not raise or lower coyote populations that anyone could tell, people were not silly about trash and pets out at night. No campers were ever attacked. A few fell off the cliffs but critters had nothing to do with that as far as I know.

YMMV
  #48  
Old 08-09-2017, 07:51 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Quote:
Quoth rat avatar:

But crazy enough I have actually watch a badger and a coyote hunting together, and the coyote actually groomed the badger after they had both caught several squeekies (ground squirrels) working together.
Please tell me you caught that on camera, because that's awesome.
  #49  
Old 08-10-2017, 10:27 PM
TSBG TSBG is offline
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Coyotes where I live are so damn confident that they lollygag around in the daytime near schools. This is urban LA county. Fuckers won't even run away when you yell at them any more. They are very, very confident around humans and our pets, aka prey. I would happily shoot them all but that's not so safe with all the people to catch stray bullets.

Never heard anyone trying predator urine as a deterrent, but even if it worked there are a lot of people with a lot of small pets and it would take quite a lot of captive wolf piss to make LA County safe for cats and small dogs.
  #50  
Old 08-10-2017, 11:08 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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That, and there are already a lot of wolves around and peeing in any place with humans. Do you really think that coyotes can tell from the smell that the wolves in question like humans and have floppy ears?
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