Per the short article in the link was this incident rape or not?
Haunted by the morning after - At a high school party in 2001, I drunkenly went off with a guy. I’m still coming to grips with what happened next
It 's a lot of drunken stupidity, but I’m having a tough time characterizing it as rape.
Hazy, reconstructed memories… An hazy, possibly unpleasant experience that needs to be purged… Positive reinforcement from family and close associates…
No way could I characterize this as rape, without knowing more and relying on her hazy drunken recollections less, especially after she’s been viewing them thru a filter for so long.
Not enough info to go with her say-so.
I am a rape victim (several times, actually) and I do not believe this quantifies as rape.
Let the debate commence…
I wouldn’t consider it rape, just a bad first experience with sex. The booze just became an excuse over time.
If a person is unconscious when someone has sex with them its rape, regardless of what the person said when they were still conscious.
Whether it would stand up in a court of law is another thing, but I dont see why the starting assumption should be that her memory is inaccurate.
Otara
Uh, maybe because she says over and over in the article that her memory of certain things is either not there at all or hazy?
Plus, we know for a fact that people’s memories,in general, can be inaccurate.
Can be, not ‘usually are’.
Otara
Eh, not to say that the guy isn’t a bastard, but it seems likely that he was pretty drunk too. It’s decently likely that he wasn’t clear-headed enough to think, “Gee, she’s sort of not too in to this.” It also seems likely that they would have gone through with it regardless of whether she had blacked out or not.
Really the question isn’t about conscious/unconscious, but whether a person can be considered to be consenting while truly wasted. And for that one, while the answer is that they probably can’t, to some extent it’s that sort of risk like jumping out a plane or taking your parents car four-wheeling that young’uns are going after when they get drunk. Nobody actually thinks it will be them who gets hurt, and so they keep doing it. In a situation with lots of horny young teens, drunk out of their minds, you’re going to see lots of bad things happen. You can blame the alcohol, blame the aggressor, but presuming that the girl wasn’t plied with liquor, didn’t have anything slipped into her drink, had experience with drinking and knew her own tolerance, to a large extent it’s her fault as well. She got really drunk, cuddled up to a handsome young man she had a crush on, lied to him that she’s wet herself so that he’d continue to find her attractive, and didn’t protest greatly when he started to undress her. If that guy is pretty well wasted himself, what happens next is pretty well set in stone. I’m happy enough to say that everyone was in the bad and leave it as over with.
Nope. A girl/woman who did something she regrets deeply - yes. A senior high schooler who was so inexcusably stupid about sex still can’t put all the blame into a rape bubble and not take some responsibility for her own drunken dumbness.
The only way I could see this not being rape is if the guy was himself not in control of his actions due to drunkeness. If we take the story as offered, the girl was drunk even before the guy took her off into the woods, and was definitely passing in and out when the guy sought permission. If he were sober, I’d be pretty sure he’d know that she was not in any condition to consent, and thus was taking advantage of her drunkenness.
And, I believe, from a legal standpoint, even a drunk person can rape another drunk person, in the same sense that drunk drivers are still considered responsible for their actions despite the loss of judgment.
I am somewhat alarmed that so many people don’t at least see how likely it is to be rape. I’m pretty sure some of you have been wasted enough that someone could have taken advantage of you.
It’s iffy to me. Assuming her memory is accurate, she did say “We’re not having sex”, then went on to say (or nod, I guess) “yes” when he asked if she still wanted him to make her come. I can easily see him taking that as consent, especially if he’d been drinking too. She’s certainly free to have regrets and it sounds like there was impaired judgement all around, but that’s not the same as rape.
The “taking advantage” part is the problem. Two drunk kids at a beer bash. She approaches him and solicits him to “help her come”. Goes into the woods with him and does not protest when he takes her pants off, and only when he finally starts unbuckling his pants expresses that he didn’t mean “sex” he asks her is she still wants to come and she say “yes”, and then she passes out. She wakes up later and discovers she has had intercourse. I’m really having trouble (like her parents did) considering this to be rape.
Which raises the question if they were both drunk did they both commit rape?
I see it as in a big gray area. The drunken guy might have quite wrong, but incarceration wasn’t called for.
The girl had problems both before and after the incident. Don’t know how much the “rape” contributed to her problems; focusing on it might have been more detrimental than the act itself.
(Fully expect to get castigated as anti-feminist now.)
Something that struck me about this story is that both she and her parents seem willing to explain suicidal feelings and depression on the rape when she freely admits to being “selectively bulimic” prior to the rape. She already had problems, don’t try and blame them on this experience.
As for the rape itself, the boy needed to stop when she said “we’re not having sex” but she also needed to be a lot clearer when he subsequently asked if she still wanted him to make her come. It was bad communication combined with perceived peer pressure, teenage brainlessness, and alcohol.
“I want you to make me come”
“Do you still want me to make you come?”
“Yes”
No, this case isnt rape. Drunk stupid girls need to stop using rape as an excuse for their own mistakes. Rape is a vile crime, one that is being clouded by ever rising numbers of not only false rape accusations, but of girls mumbling rape where none exists to salve their own guilt.
Somebody on this board once posted the story of a young girl raped by multiple men at a frat party, while he watched unable to stop them. That was rape, horrifying and disgraceful. A drunk horny teenager throwing herself at another teenager and then being upset that her first time wasnt in a dreamy bed of roses with Brad Pitt, that just cheapens the pain that the girl at the frat party went through.
All IMHO
She got drunk, she did something stupid and now she wants to blame anybody but herself. I’m not seeing rape in there at all.
If we’re talking about high-school or college-fresh people, isn’t the simple fact of them drinking booze a felony/misdemeanor ? Not that I’d condemn them for “underage” drinking (not at all), but if you sink to the stupid level of “having sex with a drunk person = rape”, won’t you just first logically quote the first breaking of the law ?
Stories like this crack me up. “Sure, I was so drunk I pissed myself and blacked out for parts of the night, but I remember exactly what happened right before we had sex”. Yeah, sure. How convenient for the author that “things got hazy” immediately after refusing consent for sex, but a little bit before intercourse actually began.
Because people who are drunk enough to piss themselves, black out (hello?), and pass out in the woods are well known for their photographic memory of that night.