I’ve seen many cites which claim that there is no law requiring a person to get a social security number. Of course you would need one to work or to pay taxes. But is there a legitimate way that a person could legally never get an SSN?
Suppose a child’s parents never get an SNN for the child and doesn’t claim the child as an exemption. The child’s parents are wealthy and sets up a trust for the child so it never has to work for income.
When the child grows up, could it function normally in society without the SSN? What rights or privileges would it have to give up by not having one?
I don’t think he could get a bank account and he would have taxes to pay on the income from the trust. Outside of remaining outside the US and never paying taxes (but if the trust were inside the US, I guess the IRS would simply attach the trust), I don’t see how you could do it.
But maybe it is legal to simply file accurate tax returns and pay what is due and ignore their demands for a SS number.
Could you get around it with an EIN number? You don’t really need a bank account. You could use someone else’s and just make deposits and withdrawals though an ATM.
The best way to answer this is to see what you need a SS# for.
OK you couldn’t get a job, but the OP says the person would be independenly wealthy.
You wouldn’t need a bank account as you could use an account and use their ATMs to withdraw and deposit.
You couldn’t get a credit card, but you could use pre-paid cards.
You couldn’t get a driver’s license. Or could you? In Illinois you have to have a social security number to get one. The only way around it is to present a military service record form the US Federal government. I am assuming you need a social security number to get that.
So without a state ID or driver’s license you’d have no real ID and you’d be denied many things based on that.
I don’t know, plenty of people with alternative tax ID numbers who are able to get driver’s licenses, bank accounts, credit, file taxes/get refunds, etc…
I think somewhere back in the 80s Cecil wrote a column about the SSN, and he mentioned something about the problem that it isn’t very safe because it’s officially only for Social Security, but practically has become an all-purpose unique identifiying number, so theft and falsification are a problem. (A secure, unique ID from one national database instead of 50 different procedures for each state encounters problems from the mindset of certain Americans).
So I wonder if you are required by law (in each state?) to have a SSN to get a bank account, drivers license etc., or if it’s just written in the normal rules to make identification easiest, and if you didn’t have a SSN, but wanted a license / bank account, etc, you could successfully argue that the institution would have to offer you an alternative way to prove your identity.
In Canada, you can go through life without a Social Security Number?
But, the question becomes: Can go through life in Canada without a Social Insurance Number?
I would say any answer that applies to the Social Security Number in the US applies equally to the Social Insurance Number in Canada.
You would have to hire a driver or take public transportation. Don’t remember if a passport required a SSN. Money passed down could simply be in the form of hard assets such as gold or currency kept in bank boxes. It would not be in the form of a trust so the IRS would never know.
I happily lived without one until I was 18. Of course, I turned 18 decades ago, laws and requirements have change considerably since then.
Railroad workers have an alternative retirement system, and I believe they can use their number for that in place of the SS#.
I also recall hearing that the Amish are allowed to opt out of the social security system entirely - which means I have a lot of neighbors living down the road from me that lack one. But I don’t know if that’s the truth or not. Interesting question.
In Illinois to get a state ID or driver’s license you have to have ID from four different groups.
One of these groups “Group C” says you have to have a social security card. The only substitution you can make is to use a US military record. Now I assume that to get into the military you have to have a SS# which in effect means, no SS# no DL or state ID, at least in IL.
Can you open a bank account without an SS#? The Patriot Act requies you to “prove” your identity, but does not specifically mention SS#, but it gives banks leeway. This means if you can’t convince them you ARE who you are they can deny you.
It is possible to open a bank account but you’re going to jump thru a lot of hurdles to get it. I read a couple of things from people online that say they have done this. Funny enough three of them reported that after doing this, within a month their SS# was ON the account anyway. Somehow the bank got it and attached the number.
Other people have said, the IRS has frozen accounts without SS# till they can prove they are who they are and the money is being taxed correctly.
(Since the above examples are from an “Off the Grid” Lifestyle forum I can’t say they’re accurate, but it does bring up intersting points)
The problem is the State ID. For instance, I noticed on AT&T to open a phone service, you don’t need a SS#, but if you refuse or can’t provide one you cannot open the service via phone or online. You have to physically go in and present a photo ID. The site says that the only acceptable forms of photo ID are: State issued ID, State issued Driver’s License, Passport or Military ID.
Again, we’re right back were we started. You don’t need the SS# but to get around it you have to provide ID. And to get that ID you’d need a SS#.
No, they don’t have a social security number, which is why they are assigned an alternative taxpayer ID number so they can file their taxes.
Those in the country illegally are not eligible for SS numbers (they are not eligible to WORK either, but the Feds helpfully allow them to file taxes regardless). Unless they BUY an SS # and use it fraudulently, they do not have one of their own.
Bank of America was one of the first to offer accounts, loans and credit cards to those without SS numbers (e.g. illegal immigrants).
Perhaps I used the wrong term for the alternative tax filing number, but there are plenty of people who live their whole lives in the U.S. w/o a (legitimate) SS #.
The government and banks and other businesses want their money, so they work out ways to get around the issue.
Well banks don’t have to get a SS#. It’s a tricky thing, under the Patriot Act the banks have to prove they tried to establish identity.
As I said, others who have gotten bank accounts without providing a number have had it found out and assigned or have had accounts frozen.
The IRS provides numbers to foreigners who have to file taxes but don’t have a SS#. Illegals have used this, and the media makes a thing out of it. In real life it doesn’t often happen. The number is assigned to people in this country who need to pay taxes but doesn’t make any distinction between those here legally and illegally.
The tax payer number they are assigned can be used as a FORM of ID, but it’s a poor form. Anyone taking it, would almost certainly require another back up form of ID.
This is why bank account opened with it have been frozen. This is why illegals don’t open accounts. You can open one and it’s all too easy to have it frozen, then your assets are in limbo. You can get them unfrozen but then you are likely to be found out.
The OP question was asking about life without a SS#. By this I am assuming he means trying to live HONESTLY without one.
Not use other people’s numbers to get by. Or to make up numbers to get by. It seems like he’s asking about legitimately trying to get by.
For instance, you can actually get a passport without a SS# but you have to jump through hoops and have people swear that they know you and will affirm your identity and such. And here’s the key. You have to swear you don’t have a SS# now and never had one. Of course, if you ever had one, and say you didn’t, you lied on your application and now your passport can be revoked.
Yes. Completely above board and legal. For whatever reason, the person does not want to get an SSN and tries to live life as normally as possible while following all laws. Obviously the job thing would require one, so we assume independent wealth. And it looks like, at least in Illinois, he would have to have one to get a DL. So he could establish residence in another state that doesn’t require an SSN, get a DL there, and have a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) home in the state of his choosing.
Not paying into social security doesn’t mean you don’t get a number. My mom worked in the school system her entire career and didn’t pay into SS (paid in to the State Employees Retirement System) and won’t be able to collect. She has a SSN tho.
What about giving the child a gift? From the IRS FAQ on gifts:
[
](http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00.html)
The form (PDF) linked to in the FAQ asks for the * donor’s* SSN, but not the donee’s (there is a space for EIN if the done is a closely held entity). Furthermore, the reporting is for gifts above the excluded amount, currently $13,000 per year per donor—donee. Not only is that $26,000 per year per couple, but it looks like grandparents, etc. could make the same donation—this would even keep the kid’s name out of the system
There is no requirement that the gifted funds be placed in a bank account. If the parents really wanted to keep the kid off the grid, they could claim no exemption and gift enough money to account for the lack of interest over time.
I know that at least in California universities, they cannot require you to have an SSN to enroll (makes sense since there are international students).
