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Old 11-03-2010, 12:43 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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Can Prince Charles (UK) Choose Any Name When He Becomes King?

According to the Wikipedia, Prince Charles full name is "Charles Philip Arthur George"

I'm sure technically it's longer but we'll go with this

Anyway, if and when he becomes king, can he pick any name as his regnal name. I know some people said, he might rule as "George" to honor his grandfather but does it have to be one of those "Charles, Phillip, Arthur or George" names?

Could he choose, "Larry" or "Tyrone"? Or "Throatwobbler Mangrove" (of course that would be spelled "Luxury Yacht"

Last edited by Markxxx; 11-03-2010 at 12:44 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:51 PM
TruCelt TruCelt is offline
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I have a vague memory that it's actually "Phillip Charles Arthur George." It seems to me that when they were wed, Princess Diana said "Charles Phillip. . ." and there was a kerfuffle about her having gotten the name wrong.

Was it actually the officiant who messed up?
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:56 PM
yabob yabob is offline
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Technically, or in reality? The name you are referring to is the "regnal name", and in theory, it's Charles' prerogative to choose whatever name he likes. However, if he were to choose "John" or "Richard", let alone something silly, there would undoubtedly be an immense kerfluffle and a lot of pressure brought to bear.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:11 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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There was some minor controversy in Scotland when Elizabeth II became Queen , as there had never been an Elizabeth I of Scotland. (The king after the union of the crowns was styled James I (of England) and VI (of Scotland) for example.

MacCormick v Lord Advocate found that the styling of Queen Elizabeth as Elizabeth II was covered under Royal Prerogative. I can only assume that picking the actual regnal name also falls under this convention.

I'm no constitutional lawyer, mind.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:14 PM
yojimbo yojimbo is offline
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There was a story a while back that he'd King George as Charles didn't really work out as a name for Kings in England.

Don't think it's ever been confirmed though. He can choose a different name though that's for sure.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:21 PM
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My vote is for King Larry. Or possibly King D'Brickashaw, because that is the most awesome name ever.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:38 PM
Mississippienne Mississippienne is offline
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Originally Posted by yojimbo View Post
There was a story a while back that he'd King George as Charles didn't really work out as a name for Kings in England.

Don't think it's ever been confirmed though. He can choose a different name though that's for sure.
Strange, because there's been two prior King Charleses of England. I think him being Charles III would be an excellent chance to bring back that name, make a nice break in the endless Georges and Edwards.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:44 PM
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It would be nice if he went for Arthur, since he'd be the first with that name -- the other King Arthur is mythical -- and he'd be the second half of Arturus rex quondam rex futurusque.

Last edited by Giles; 11-03-2010 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:51 PM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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Strange, because there's been two prior King Charleses of England. I think him being Charles III would be an excellent chance to bring back that name, make a nice break in the endless Georges and Edwards.
The problem isn't that there have been Charleses. The problem is what happens to Charleses.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:04 PM
Giles Giles is offline
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The problem isn't that there have been Charleses. The problem is what happens to Charleses.
Charles II did just fine: not only did he regain the throne, but he knew how to keep out of too much trouble with the Parliament. (It was his younger brother James II and VII who lost the throne in the Glorious Revolution.)
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:20 PM
Northern Piper Northern Piper is online now
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Except for the unfaithfulness to his wife bit; that might strike a bit close to home...

We had a thread on this topic not long ago, and APB posted a link to a news item disavowing the suggestion that Charles had already decided to chose George as his regnal name. All of the different articles which mention that possibility all track back to one news item in the mid-90s, which was later disavowed by an anonymous friend of HRH.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:29 PM
Tristan Tristan is offline
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I was under the impression, based on Charles conversion to Catholicism, that he would most likely abdicate the throne in favor of his son?

Or am I wrong on that account?
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:34 PM
Giles Giles is offline
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I don't think Charles has converted to Catholicism. If he had, he would be out of the line of succession: he would not be able to abdicate, because he would not succeed to the throne.
  #14  
Old 11-03-2010, 02:36 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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Charles has not converted to Catholicism. If he had, he would be ineligible to be king, he wouldn't have the option of abdicating.
  #15  
Old 11-03-2010, 02:40 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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I was under the impression, based on Charles conversion to Catholicism, that he would most likely abdicate the throne in favor of his son?

Or am I wrong on that account?
Possibly misremembering? Tony Blair converted to Catholicism after stepping down as PM.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:42 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Originally Posted by TruCelt View Post
I have a vague memory that it's actually "Phillip Charles Arthur George." It seems to me that when they were wed, Princess Diana said "Charles Phillip. . ." and there was a kerfuffle about her having gotten the name wrong.

Was it actually the officiant who messed up?
I watched it live and I remember this moment well. It was just Diana who messed it up.

His name is "Charles Phillip Arthur George."

The officiant said "Charles Phillip Arthur George."

Diana repeated it as "Charles Arthur Phillip George."

Last edited by Acsenray; 11-03-2010 at 02:42 PM.
  #17  
Old 11-03-2010, 02:45 PM
Derleth Derleth is online now
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My vote's for Victoria II. Vicky's such a regal name.

Is there any precedent for what happens if Chucky becomes a Vicky in more than name? (Other than moving those ears lower.)
  #18  
Old 11-03-2010, 02:48 PM
matt_mcl matt_mcl is offline
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Originally Posted by TruCelt View Post
I have a vague memory that it's actually "Phillip Charles Arthur George." It seems to me that when they were wed, Princess Diana said "Charles Phillip. . ." and there was a kerfuffle about her having gotten the name wrong.

Was it actually the officiant who messed up?
No, she did, but not that way: his name is Charles Philip Arthur George and she said Charles Arthur Philip George.
  #19  
Old 11-03-2010, 02:51 PM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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Technically, or in reality? The name you are referring to is the "regnal name", and in theory, it's Charles' prerogative to choose whatever name he likes. However, if he were to choose "John" or "Richard", let alone something silly, there would undoubtedly be an immense kerfluffle and a lot of pressure brought to bear.
What's wrong with John or Richard?
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:57 PM
Giles Giles is offline
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What's wrong with John or Richard?
The last King John and the last two King Richards (II and III) are generally agreed to be Bad Kings.
  #21  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:00 PM
Maus Magill Maus Magill is offline
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I was under the impression, based on Charles conversion to Catholicism, that he would most likely abdicate the throne in favor of his son?

Or am I wrong on that account?
You may be thinking of Tony Blair.
  #22  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:04 PM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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The last King John and the last two King Richards (II and III) are generally agreed to be Bad Kings.
Wow, I was assuming that it was a joke, since John can mean 'toilet' and Richard can mean 'dick'.
  #23  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:12 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Quote:
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I was under the impression, based on Charles conversion to Catholicism, that he would most likely abdicate the throne in favor of his son?

Or am I wrong on that account?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giles View Post
The last King John and the last two King Richards (II and III) are generally agreed to be Bad Kings.
Charles is unlikely to pick "Charles III" for similar reasons. Charles I and Charles II were Stewarts, reigned during a tumultuous period, and Charles I was beheaded -- the name "Charles" is closely associated with the Stewart pretenders. "James" is unlikely to be used again for the same reason. My WAG is that Edward VIII has killed the name "Edward" for the future as well.

So, George VII, and then William V (or Henry IX, if it comes to that).

Albert is out, out of respect for Victoria's husband. And Arthur is out, out of respect for Henry VIII's elder brother. Unless the royal family suddenly gets creative, it's going to be George, William, Henry, Elizabeth, or Victoria, from now on.

Last edited by Acsenray; 11-03-2010 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:14 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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I think we can all agree that Tony Blair will never be king now.


  #25  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:15 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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So basically he can pick what name he wants. Yes, I understand there would be pressure if he picked a dumb name or an unpopular name (King Hitler for instance) but what I'm reading is there is no law that would forbid him or require someone else's approval.

I was asking about UK royalty in general, not Charles in specific.

So if he did pick a name no one liked, what could they do? Force him to abdicate? Not recognize him as king? Or become a republic?
  #26  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:17 PM
Smeghead Smeghead is offline
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I think he should go with King Obama, just to mess with the world.
  #27  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:18 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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So basically he can pick what name he wants. Yes, I understand there would be pressure if he picked a dumb name or an unpopular name (King Hitler for instance) but what I'm reading is there is no law that would forbid him or require someone else's approval.

I was asking about UK royalty in general, not Charles in specific.

So if he did pick a name no one liked, what could they do? Force him to abdicate? Not recognize him as king? Or become a republic?
The monarch's job is to be as popular as he can manage, so it's not going to come to that.

It's very hard to get definitive answers to questions like this. There are too many unspoken rules and unexercised powers involved.
  #28  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:19 PM
Polycarp Polycarp is offline
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I was under the impression, based on Charles conversion to Catholicism, that he would most likely abdicate the throne in favor of his son?

Or am I wrong on that account?
If he had in fact converted, the Act of Settlement would act to disqualify him. But what evidence is supposed to be there that he converted? That he visited the Pope once?
  #29  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:22 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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t).

Unless the royal family suddenly gets creative, it's going to be George, William, Henry, Elizabeth, or Victoria, from now on.
I wonder if Mary is back in the game now, after QEII's grandmother. It might be different for a Queen regnant though.
  #30  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:24 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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So if he did pick a name no one liked, what could they do? Force him to abdicate? Not recognize him as king? Or become a republic?
Parliament can do whatever it likes with regard to the Royal Family. It's a foolish Monarch who disregards the "advice" of the Prime Minister.
  #31  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:26 PM
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... And Arthur is out, out of respect for Henry VIII's elder brother.
I would not have thought that Arthur, Prince of Wales, would have spoiled the name. He died at the age of 15 more than 500 years ago, and his main contribution to history was his widow marrying his younger brother -- which led to problems between the Church of England and the Church of Rome. The problem really would be associations with the legendary King Arthur -- and that association might be positive, on the whole.
  #32  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Giles Giles is offline
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I wonder if Mary is back in the game now, after QEII's grandmother. It might be different for a Queen regnant though.
I think Alexandra would be a possibility, too, even if it's a bit old-fashioned.
  #33  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:35 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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I watched it live and I remember this moment well. It was just Diana who messed it up.

His name is "Charles Phillip Arthur George."

The officiant said "Charles Phillip Arthur George."

Diana repeated it as "Charles Arthur Phillip George."
In the U.S., they probably would have repeated the whole thing later "out of an abundance of caution."
  #34  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:38 PM
Eleanor of Aquitaine Eleanor of Aquitaine is offline
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Albert is out, out of respect for Victoria's husband. ...
I've seen this statement before, but I remember reading that Victoria decreed that henceforth all of the males in direct line to the throne should be given the name Albert, because she wanted the name to be used. I think she would have been thrilled with a bunch of King Alberts. The family obeyed her until Elizabeth didn't give Charles the name.

Edward VII was known as Prince Albert Edward, and I thought Victoria wanted him to become King Albert Edward, but he decided not to do it after her death, because a double name wasn't British custom. I think he used the excuse of honoring the name Albert by not using it?
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:44 PM
Ximenean Ximenean is offline
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I'll bet anyone a thousand newly-minted Charles III pound coins that he sticks to his actual name.
  #36  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:45 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Louis, Francis, Geoffrey, and Phillip are too Frenchy -- wouldn't go down well with the British public.

Robert is too closely associated with Scottish independence.

Andrew and Anthony just don't sound royal.

Stephen was a weak king. Matilda was a tyrant.

Isabelle sounds too foreign.

I wonder if Catherine or Anne might be ready to make a comeback?

Alexander and Nicholas are too czarist.

Paul, Peter, Samuel, Aaron, Jonathan, Daniel, David and other excessively Biblical names wouldn't fly.

Michael is too continental

Too common-sounding: Arnold, Brian, Alan, Donald, Douglas, Eugene, Leonard, Joseph, Roger

Too Saxon-sounding: Alfred, Edmund, Ernest

Too Nordic: Eric, Frederick



Hm ...

Terence? Lawrence? Kenneth (too Scottish)? Patrick (too Irish)? Vincent? Timothy? Thomas?
  #37  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:01 PM
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Charles is unlikely to pick "Charles III" for similar reasons. Charles I and Charles II were Stewarts, reigned during a tumultuous period, and Charles I was beheaded -- the name "Charles" is closely associated with the Stewart pretenders. "James" is unlikely to be used again for the same reason. My WAG is that Edward VIII has killed the name "Edward" for the future as well.

So, George VII, and then William V (or Henry IX, if it comes to that).

Albert is out, out of respect for Victoria's husband. And Arthur is out, out of respect for Henry VIII's elder brother. Unless the royal family suddenly gets creative, it's going to be George, William, Henry, Elizabeth, or Victoria, from now on.
Henry IX actually might have Jacobite problems, also, since Henry Benedict Stuart was the last Jacobite pretender anybody took seriously, and was styled Henry IX in those circles. Notably, he himself had better sense than to try to press his claim.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:03 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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With the relatively recent examples of

Albert Frederick Arthur George VI

Albert Edward VII

Alexandrina Victoria

... I think it's pretty even odds of Charles going with one of his other names.

And hasn't he already informally run the "George VII" idea up the flag and gotten general agreement?
  #39  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:04 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Henry IX actually might have Jacobite problems, also, since Henry Benedict Stuart was the last Jacobite pretender anybody took seriously, and was styled Henry IX in those circles. Notably, he himself had better sense than to try to press his claim.
That's a good point. As I was writing it, the name "Henry IX" seemed to ring some kind of bell, but I didn't place it as a Jacobite name.
  #40  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:30 PM
rocking chair rocking chair is offline
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perhaps nigel? reginald? harold?

it is amazing how many names are "right out", rather difficult to name a heir to the crown.

just go with a name and make your own history with it.
  #41  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:38 PM
Giles Giles is offline
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perhaps nigel? reginald? harold?

it is amazing how many names are "right out", rather difficult to name a heir to the crown.

just go with a name and make your own history with it.
Here's what Elizabeth II came up with for her children:

Charles Philip Arthur George
Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise
Andrew Albert Christian Edward
Edward Antony Richard Louis

So she used Edward twice, and Louise/Louis is a very close pair. She also used some that would be pretty odd as the name of a British monarch -- Christian, Antony (King Tony anyone?) and Louis.
  #42  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Polycarp Polycarp is offline
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Well, the given names of the first 12 heirs in the line of succession:

1. Charles Philip Arthur George
2. William Arthur Philip Louis
3. Henry Charles Albert David
4. Andrew Albert Christian Edward
5. Beatrice Elizabeth Mary
6. Eugenie Victoria Helena
7. Edward Antony Richard Louis
8. James Alexander Philip Theo
9. Louise Alice Elizabeth Mary
10. Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise
11. Peter Mark Andrew
12. Zara Anne Elizabeth
  #43  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:45 PM
Giles Giles is offline
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I wish we could look forward to Queen Zara.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:50 PM
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Well, if Ohio goes to a monarchy, you could perhaps import her.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:51 PM
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Louis is now firmly enshrined in the royal family lexicon of names, for a pretty good reason: Prince Philip's uncle, Earl Mountbatten of Burma and the closest thing any of the Queen's kids knew to a grandfather (Charles and Anne barely knew George VI before his death; the other two were born years after it). His father was also a Lord Louis Mountbatten, on a side branch of the royal family.
  #46  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:52 PM
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I would not have thought that Arthur, Prince of Wales, would have spoiled the name. He died at the age of 15 more than 500 years ago, and his main contribution to history was his widow marrying his younger brother -- which led to problems between the Church of England and the Church of Rome. The problem really would be associations with the legendary King Arthur -- and that association might be positive, on the whole.
I gather that, to Brits, a modern King Arthur would feel about the same way that a Pope Peter would to Catholics. There's only one Pope Peter, and tradition has it that there will only ever be two, that the last Pope will also be named Peter.
  #47  
Old 11-03-2010, 05:03 PM
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nevermind

Last edited by KneadToKnow; 11-03-2010 at 05:04 PM.
  #48  
Old 11-03-2010, 05:19 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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I gather that, to Brits, a modern King Arthur would feel about the same way that a Pope Peter would to Catholics. There's only one Pope Peter, and tradition has it that there will only ever be two, that the last Pope will also be named Peter.
The odds aren't bad that the next king of England would indeed be the last king, after which they abolish the monarchy. So Arthur might be the most appropriate of all names.
  #49  
Old 11-03-2010, 05:31 PM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
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...
I wonder if Catherine or Anne might be ready to make a comeback?
...
Catherine's a great name!
  #50  
Old 11-03-2010, 05:40 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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The odds aren't bad that the next king of England would indeed be the last king, after which they abolish the monarchy. So Arthur might be the most appropriate of all names.
Charles as the last King? Nah. There's no real republican sentiment in most of the UK. And the position isn't "King of England" FYI.
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