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#1
11-04-2010, 01:32 PM
 naita Guest Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 4,909
30 kg per kg bodyweight! LD50 for sucrose seems whack

In the wikipedia article on LD50, the example for sucrose seems absurd. How can you administer 30 kg of sucrose per kg bodyweight? Drop a bag on the rat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50#Examples
#2
11-04-2010, 01:36 PM
 Giles Charter Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newcastle NSW Posts: 12,834
29,700,000,000 ng = 29.7 g, so the lethal dose is about 1/34 of the body mass: you'd have a full stomach with that amount inside you, but I suppose it could be done.

Last edited by Giles; 11-04-2010 at 01:37 PM.
#3
11-04-2010, 01:46 PM
 Colophon Guest Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 13,356
I prefer the "drop a bag on the rat" explanation, myself. Say a rat weighs about 400g - a 30lb sack of sugar ought to the job nicely.
#4
11-04-2010, 02:19 PM
 chorpler Charter Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Vegas, baby! Posts: 3,641
Quote:
 Originally Posted by naita In the wikipedia article on LD50, the example for sucrose seems absurd. How can you administer 30 kg of sucrose per kg bodyweight? Drop a bag on the rat? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50#Examples
I think your math is off by a factor of 1000 -- as Giles points out, 29,700,000,000 ng/kg is about 30 grams per kilogram.

My question is, what would actually happen if you consumed a lethally huge dose of sugar? We know how lethal doses of things like water and salt kill you ... what does sugar do at a lethal dose?

Last edited by chorpler; 11-04-2010 at 02:20 PM.
#5
11-04-2010, 02:21 PM
 chorpler Charter Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Vegas, baby! Posts: 3,641
Quote:
 Originally Posted by naita In the wikipedia article on LD50, the example for sucrose seems absurd. How can you administer 30 kg of sucrose per kg bodyweight? Drop a bag on the rat? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50#Examples
I think your math is off by a factor of 1000 -- as Giles points out, 29,700,000,000 ng is about 30 [i]grams[/b] per kilogram.

My question is, what would actually happen if you consumed a lethally huge dose of sugar? We know how lethal doses of things like water and salt kill you ... what does sugar do at a lethal dose?

ETA: OK, my second question is, have they actually determined the LD50 of sucrose experimentally, or is this just a guess?
#6
11-04-2010, 02:56 PM
 awldune Guest Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: NC Posts: 1,653
So if you weigh 150lbs you would have to eat 4.5lbs of pure sugar to have a 50% chance of dying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperglycemia

Quote:
 Acute hyperglycemia involving glucose levels that are extremely high is a medical emergency and can rapidly produce serious complications (such as fluid loss through osmotic diuresis).
I think the basic idea is that your kidneys go crazy and you become very dehydrated. I doubt it is entirely healthy for the kidneys, either.
#7
11-04-2010, 03:40 PM
 naita Guest Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 4,909
Of course I'm wrong by a factor of 1000. That'll teach me to taunt the people who think having kilograms as the base unit is bad. My brain was so stuck in the "nano" means a factor of 10^9 mode it took me a while to accept your replies were right.
#8
11-04-2010, 03:43 PM
 naita Guest Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 4,909
Quote:
 Originally Posted by chorpler ETA: OK, my second question is, have they actually determined the LD50 of sucrose experimentally, or is this just a guess?
The table mentions animal (rat) and administration route (oral), so it's probably determined experimentally.

Now I have to worry about accidentally eating two kilogram bags of sugar.
#9
11-04-2010, 03:50 PM
 purplehorseshoe Guest Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas, USA Posts: 9,196
*crunch* *munch* *chew*

*gulp*

Oops.
#10
11-04-2010, 04:47 PM
 lazybratsche Guest Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,683
Quote:
 Originally Posted by awldune So if you weigh 150lbs you would have to eat 4.5lbs of pure sugar to have a 50% chance of dying. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperglycemia I think the basic idea is that your kidneys go crazy and you become very dehydrated. I doubt it is entirely healthy for the kidneys, either.
4.5 lbs of sugar would probably just kill you by sucking all of the water out of the rest of your body by osmosis.
#11
11-05-2010, 01:28 AM
 TriPolar Guest Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: rhode island Posts: 37,452
You won't die if you drink several gallons of diet soda at the same time to balance things out.
#12
11-05-2010, 05:49 AM
 Random Design Guest Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 252
Quote:
 Originally Posted by chorpler I think your math is off by a factor of 1000 -- as Giles points out, 29,700,000,000 ng is about 30 [i]grams[/b] per kilogram. My question is, what would actually happen if you consumed a lethally huge dose of sugar? We know how lethal doses of things like water and salt kill you ... what does sugar do at a lethal dose? ETA: OK, my second question is, have they actually determined the LD50 of sucrose experimentally, or is this just a guess?
Isn't the term "lethal dose" self-explanatory?
#13
11-05-2010, 11:03 AM
 aruvqan Charter Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Eastern Connecticut Posts: 16,445
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Random Design Isn't the term "lethal dose" self-explanatory?
i still have the mental image of dropping a whole bag of sugar on the poor little rattie ...

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