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  #1  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:30 PM
Love Rhombus Love Rhombus is offline
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Is real child porn very well hidden?

Up front, I want to make it very clear that I'm not looking for, interested in, sympathetic towards or advocating anything about child pornography. My question is due to an article I read in my local paper today, in which a man is discovered to have some on his computer. His defense was along the lines of: "I was looking for porn and stumbled upon it accidentally." This seems pretty unlikely since I'd imagine real child pornographers (eww I feel icky writing that phrase over and over again) would have their stuff very very well hidden, and not something you could just summon up by looking on google with a few easy searches. Am I right?

I should add that if this question goes against Board rules in some way, I apoligize and the mods can take it down as they wish. I realize that it's an icky subject, and not one to be taken lightly.

Last edited by Love Rhombus; 11-19-2010 at 07:33 PM..
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:32 PM
SmithCommaJohn SmithCommaJohn is offline
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Ordinarily, one could just do a Google search to find out.

But I'm gonna have to call "not it" on this one.

Last edited by SmithCommaJohn; 11-19-2010 at 07:33 PM..
  #3  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:40 PM
Love Rhombus Love Rhombus is offline
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Originally Posted by SmithCommaJohn View Post
Ordinarily, one could just do a Google search to find out.

But I'm gonna have to call "not it" on this one.
Yeah, I'd agree. I'm certainly not suggesting anyone google anything in order to answer this question. I think I'm more asking for generalized knowledge, though I'm not sure who would have it.
  #4  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:46 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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It depends to on age. Is a 17 year old in a porno, child porn?

Legally I guess it would be.

To me, child porn would be pornography of boys and girls that have not reached puberty. You know having secondary sexual characteristics. I would refer to those not yet 18 as underaged porn, which is also, in my opinion wrong.

I do believe it would be possible if you were to search some of the foreign sites. You would be more apt to stumble on models in their teens.

You could also stumble on things like a mother putting her two sons 3 and 4 taking a bath up on Flickr and not restricting it properly so everyone could see it.

If you were searching in obscure ways you might be able to land on someone hosting their own website and had child porn on it.

Let's say you were using P2P networking and someone had child porn in their "share" folder. Then some site could come along and index that folder and put it in their search results so you'd come upon it like that.

Last edited by Markxxx; 11-19-2010 at 07:48 PM..
  #5  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:55 PM
mittu mittu is offline
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On a slight tangent it should be apparent from the location of the images/videos or whatever else whether it was accidental or not. If they were stored in his internet cache then he may be telling the truth but if they had been saved to a different folder his argument doesn't really hold up.

Back to the OP I can see circumstances where it could be found accidentally. For example downloading movies over torrents, the torrent name may be something generically sexual and not indicative of the age of the people in the video but if he has downloaded the files and then not deleted them his argument doesn't hold very well.
  #6  
Old 11-19-2010, 08:00 PM
ChrisBooth12 ChrisBooth12 is offline
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Yes and no, there are some sites out there like 4chan for example which is a message board but for posting images. People will post a picture of a clearly underaged person. Those posts get deleted very quickly.

From my understanding from some documentaries I have seen the child porn trade is more of a p2p type deal where people will meet up on message boards or usernet for ISPs that still offer it and use code words to talk and trade.

Putting it all on a website would be WAY to risky as it is easy to shutdown and all ISPs would just block that IP address.

Also there is another issue on what is defined as "art" I have seen a movie on Sundance that showed a naked 8 year old swimming in the water with everything to see. It was a movie, shown on US television on a cable channel. I think since it was classified as art it was ok. It didn't even seem weird to see honestly because how they pulled it off I wasn't thinking eww but more like wow this really got pass censors?

The young women in American Beauty was only 17 when she filmed topless but it was ok to put in a movie, one of her parents had to be there during filming though, the naked boy on the Nirvana cover is not child porn either
  #7  
Old 11-19-2010, 08:39 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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The porn sites I have been to for umm... research seem extremely strict on avoiding any suggestion of child porn. They even have rules like banning ALL Tracy Lords, even the stuff she did while legal, on the chance that something illegal will show up. The guy on the OP is almost certainly full of crap if he claims to have found it on a website. More temporary sources like 4chan, IRC, and possibly Usenet might be easier to accidentally stumble upon some, but on the WWW it's doubtful.

ETA: It sounds like I'm suggesting that 4chan is not the WWW. I guess technically they are, but also a force on their own.

Last edited by thelurkinghorror; 11-19-2010 at 08:40 PM..
  #8  
Old 11-19-2010, 09:20 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBooth12 View Post
...The young women in American Beauty was only 17 when she filmed topless but it was ok to put in a movie, one of her parents had to be there during filming though, the naked boy on the Nirvana cover is not child porn either
Now & Then had an entire sequence of teen & preteen boys skinnydipping & having to run after the girls that stole their clothes. I remember reading that none of the actresses playing the girls were actually onset at the same time as the boys, but all the boys' mothers were there, plus the mostly female film crew. Technically they weren't completely naked either; they were allowed to wear flesh coloured "modesty pouchs". Then again American actors of all ages usually wear cock socks when doing non-frontal nude scens so it had nothing to do with them being underage.
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2010, 09:57 PM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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A topless teen isn't child porn. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of SDMB threads that discuss instance of nudity in film and art that aren't classified as porn. Let's not get sidetracked to that discussion, because it's been rehashed repeatedly, and the OP actually raises two very interesting questions.

First, whether it's likely that a defendant might have accidentally stumbled on child porn. The federal law actually accounts for that as an affirmative defense.

Quote:
It shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of violating paragraph (4) of subsection (a) that the defendant... promptly and in good faith, and without retaining or allowing any person, other than a law enforcement agency, to access any visual depiction or copy thereof—
(A) took reasonable steps to destroy each such visual depiction; or
(B) reported the matter to a law enforcement agency and afforded that agency access to each such visual depiction.
However, the law also makes it illegal to *attempt* to poses child pornography, and the FBI has engaged in sting operations in an attempt to catch suspected traffickers.

In the child porn cases I'm familiar with (including the one linked in the paragraph above), the prosecution described how the image was downloaded, making it pretty clear that the defendant knew what he was getting.

And to the OP's other question, child porn is not that hard to find if you are looking for it. This is clear by reading the indictments. I'm not going to describe the methods, but it's not rocket science. Distributors don;t necessarily try to hide it so much as they try to make sure they aren't connected to it. Kinda like drug dealers.

Last edited by anson2995; 11-19-2010 at 10:01 PM..
  #10  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:05 PM
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
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From time to time, folks will push the limits on blogspot, nibblebit, or sensualwriter blogs. These usually disappear within a few days, though [URL="http://nudistjohn.nibblebit.com/blog/"some [/URL] [B][COLOR="Magenta"](NSFW)[/COLOR][/B] have taken the defiant position that mere nudity is not illegal.

Last edited by samclem; 11-19-2010 at 10:17 PM.. Reason: Even though you included a NSFW, I broke the link
  #11  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:11 PM
fuzzypickles fuzzypickles is offline
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Depends on what you consider porn. If someone's looking for clothed models in sexual poses, or non-sexual nudity, or lolicon/shotacon, finding that kind of smut is trivial.

If you're looking for blatant sexual activity, well...it's been awhile since I worked for Perverted Justice, but back then it wasn't that hard to find either, if you knew where to look. Usenet even had newsgroups with names like "alt.sex.children", although they were mostly filled with spam, last time I checked (and we're talking years & years ago...)

The easiest way to gain access to child porn is to find a pro-pedo website or blog & gain the person's trust; however I would NOT recommend that for curiosity seekers, I hope I don't have to explain why...

Is it possible to stumble across child porn accidentally? Certainly, yes. Even I trip across it from time to time, and I know other SDMB'ers have posted about it in the past. Therefore, it is possible the guy in the OP's article is innocent -- but I don't think so. Cops don't file charges unless they're sure someone's absolutely guilty.

ETA: @Mr. Downtown: I've reported your link, since it may cause legal issues.

Last edited by fuzzypickles; 11-19-2010 at 10:15 PM..
  #12  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:19 PM
Cyberhwk Cyberhwk is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisBooth12 View Post
I have seen a movie on Sundance that showed a naked 8 year old swimming in the water with everything to see. It was a movie, shown on US television on a cable channel.
I have the movie Baraka and there is a full body shot of a bunch of kids with traditional tribal garb that lacked any covering of the...ahem...lower extremities.
  #13  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:27 PM
AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet is offline
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To me, child porn would be pornography of boys and girls that have not reached puberty. You know having secondary sexual characteristics. I would refer to those not yet 18 as underaged porn, which is also, in my opinion wrong.
Yes, and to add, I think that the US needs to differenate UG porn and child porn.
Actually, I did hear from a friend that another friend (who'd gotten in trouble for downloading child porn previously) got his net access cut at college when he was trying to find info on pornography for a class. She claims that he showed her some kiddy porn. Then again the friend was really effed up emotionally, so I take her claims with a grain of salt. (not quite borderline personality but stll something very wrong)
  #14  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:27 PM
Shodan Shodan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzypickles View Post
If you're looking for blatant sexual activity, well...it's been awhile since I worked for Perverted Justice, but back then it wasn't that hard to find either, if you knew where to look.
I tend to disbelieve people who say they just happened across it. The key in the above statement is that the person (I assume) is actively seeking it.

I have gotten my share of the pop-ups from porn sites and spam about women and horses (although not as much since I use Gmail) and that sort of thing, but never any kiddie porn that was being pushed as aggressively as that kind of thing was. Fortunately.

Maybe I am naive. Ok by me if I am.

Regards,
Shodan
  #15  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:39 PM
Shagnasty Shagnasty is offline
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I have seen run across it accidentally although not in many years. The web as searchable through Google seems like it is anarchy but it is mild compared to some of the stuff that is out there on the internet as a whole. Once you get into bittorrent streams and things, a lot of it is completely mislabeled on purpose so you don't know what you are really getting until you open it up. Back in the dark ages, Usenet used to be really popular. It is just text based messages like this message board but more wild and free, There was a huge underbelly of it (and still is) of stuff you won't see through google. People can post the raw 'code' to images in multiple messages and you can use utilities to piece them together and display the real picture as a .jpeg or some other common format. I only did this up until 1996 or so when the web was very young and I had a Mac and not a lot of stuff was out there for it. You would think you were downloading and piecing together the code to some cool piece of software and then you got an eyeful when you opened it.

Real child porn, bestiality pics, and everything else you can imagine still exists out there on the internet but you generally won't find it on Google which is a good thing for all of us. I wouldn't believe anyone today that gave that defense as a general rule but I can see how it could have happened at one time.
  #16  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:52 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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The Japanese P2P networks use plausable deniablity so it's very possible some child porn could be on your computer of course in encrypted form, so even the user wouldn't know. In theory you can't decode it without the complete file.

So I could upload a child porn into the network and then delete it off my computer. Then it's floating around, well god knows how long.

But you are still downloading and know it. I think the person in the OP argument was, I was trying to DL a public domain copy of XXX file and got YYY file instead.

You could download a torrent and it could be named "Leave it To Beaver." But until it's on your computer you don't know what it is. So suppose I DL "Leave it to Beaver" from a torrent site and it's 33 episodes. I see the first episode is really child porn and I delete the other 32 episodes. But suppose I forget one of them and only delete 31 and I think I got them all.

Now I'm not saying any of these are good reason or even barely plausable, I'm just shooting for any reason how a file can get on your computer and you not know it.
  #17  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:56 PM
Captain_C Captain_C is offline
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Anyone who has spent any time on 4chan or other image boards knows that real child porn occasionally gets posted. Mods take it down fairly quickly (minutes at most, if not seconds) but... well, not fast enough to not have seen it. *shiver* A shame too, because I like those type of websites that deliver random funny images posted by users.
  #18  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:07 PM
Fried Dough Ho Fried Dough Ho is offline
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I have some very good friends (a married couple) who both have PhD's in "sexology" through this accredited university.

The husband of the team -- who has written a number of papers on the subject -- assured me that almost 90% of the child porn that exists on the 'net has been created by the government as a method to snare and arrest offending pedophiles who actively attempt to trade and buy images.

Just reporting what I have been told. Not commenting on its veracity.
  #19  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:09 PM
fluiddruid fluiddruid is offline
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As others have said, it's very possible to randomly run across child porn on image boards like 4chan. Through just regular browsing, I would find it unlikely in the extreme, but you can't really browse 4chan more than a couple times (in certain categories) without seeing it. It does get yanked quickly, fortunately, but it is definitely the real reach-for-brain-bleach stuff.

Fortunately, they try to keep things to their own threads that are marked fairly well (for someone familiar with the site), but it isn't unheard of to go into a random thread about funny pictures and get some images you really wish you hadn't seen (child porn and extreme gore). If you haven't been there before, it'd probably be more likely to see it by accident, since you wouldn't necessary know what this means.

So no, I wouldn't say child porn is really well hidden. I'm sure anyone who wanted it who was reasonably savvy with a computer could figure out where to start looking. It's not the kind of stuff that you're going to find in a convenient form, though -- which probably makes it easier to catch offenders, since they'd very likely have to store lots locally due to the fleeting nature of image board postings.

Last edited by fluiddruid; 11-19-2010 at 11:12 PM..
  #20  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:10 PM
fuzzypickles fuzzypickles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I tend to disbelieve people who say they just happened across it. The key in the above statement is that the person (I assume) is actively seeking it.
99.9% of the time, you are correct. However, there are people I've known (non-pedos) who've been arrested for possessing kiddy porn out of voyeuristic curiosity, and at least one who did jail time after attempting to bait & capture real pedophiles. (A major reason I quit being a vigilante...)

BTW, I just realized this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzypickles
Cops don't file charges unless they're sure someone's absolutely guilty.
...is bullshit. What I meant to say was, cops typically don't file charges unless they're certain they have a solid case. (Unless you're Pete Townshend.)
  #21  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:11 PM
dzeiger dzeiger is offline
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It should also be pointed out that reports of child porn can also be referring to cartoon/animated depictions as well, depending on what local laws are in place and how specific the reporter wants to be.

There's certainly a lot of underage cartoon stuff out there, including a ton of Japanese stuff that would be very easy to accidentally download.
  #22  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:12 PM
TheChileanBlob TheChileanBlob is offline
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My ex-husband was into the "barely legal" type of porn (like girls who were 18 but didn't really look 18). This was eight or ten years ago, but we used to get horrible icky spam sometimes of young kids, boys usually. We had an email program then where the first message would automatically be open when you opened the program, so sometimes it was like "GAAAAH!" I always forwarded them to the postmaster, but I was kinda concerned that the FBI or someone would come arrest us.
  #23  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:15 PM
fuzzypickles fuzzypickles is offline
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Originally Posted by dzeiger View Post
It should also be pointed out that reports of child porn can also be referring to cartoon/animated depictions as well, depending on what local laws are in place and how specific the reporter wants to be.
It's also true that when the news media reports someone's been busted for possessing "thousands and thousands" of kiddy porn images, not all of them are explicitly pornographic or even feature children. David Westerfield, for example, had 1000+ porn images on his computer, but most of them were legal adult stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fried Dough Ho View Post
The husband of the team -- who has written a number of papers on the subject -- assured me that almost 90% of the child porn that exists on the 'net has been created by the government as a method to snare and arrest offending pedophiles who actively attempt to trade and buy images.

Just reporting what I have been told. Not commenting on its veracity.
Created? Not a chance.

Distributed? IME, that's not true either. Actual sting sites are quite rare.

It's a common myth, though.

Last edited by fuzzypickles; 11-19-2010 at 11:20 PM.. Reason: added dzeiger's quote
  #24  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:16 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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Originally Posted by Fried Dough Ho View Post
I have some very good friends (a married couple) who both have PhD's in "sexology" through this accredited university.
This looks like a particularly prestigious institution!
  #25  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:27 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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Originally Posted by fuzzypickles View Post
99.9% of the time, you are correct. However, there are people I've known (non-pedos) who've been arrested for possessing kiddy porn out of voyeuristic curiosity, and at least one who did jail time after attempting to bait & capture real pedophiles.
How many non-paedophiles do you know who've been arrested for downloading and possessing paedophile material? It's at least one who got convicted, you say?

Last edited by Baron Greenback; 11-19-2010 at 11:28 PM..
  #26  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:46 PM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
From time to time, folks will push the limits on blogspot, nibblebit, or sensualwriter blogs. These usually disappear within a few days, though some have taken the defiant position that mere nudity is not illegal.
Just so we're all clear, that's not really a defiant position. In the US (and many other countries) images of nude children are not illegal. What's illegal under US law are images of minors "engaging in sexually explicit conduct." I'll link to what constitutes that, for those who want to be informed, but I'll refrain from posting it for decorum's sake.

Quote:
It should also be pointed out that reports of child porn can also be referring to cartoon/animated depictions as well, depending on what local laws are in place and how specific the reporter wants to be.
This is illegal in the United States (and I believe also in Canada and Australia, since there have been recent convictions reported).

Quote:
The husband of the team -- who has written a number of papers on the subject -- assured me that almost 90% of the child porn that exists on the 'net has been created by the government as a method to snare and arrest offending pedophiles who actively attempt to trade and buy images.
That's 100% baloney.
  #27  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:54 PM
Fried Dough Ho Fried Dough Ho is offline
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Frankly, I didn't believe him either.
  #28  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:57 PM
fuzzypickles fuzzypickles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anson2995 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzeiger View Post
It should also be pointed out that reports of child porn can also be referring to cartoon/animated depictions as well, depending on what local laws are in place and how specific the reporter wants to be.
This is illegal in the United States (and I believe also in Canada and Australia, since there have been recent convictions reported).
Your link refers to the obscenity statute, not the child porn statute (hence the requirement of "lacking serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" -- which is the defense given for most forms of underage virtual porn.)
  #29  
Old 11-20-2010, 12:28 AM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is offline
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There are viruses that plant child pornography on your computer for various purposes.

One forum I visit has banned-and-erased a few people in the past for posting child porn or links to it as a "joke" or out of spite. It could accidentally get in your cache at least that way too I'd think.
  #30  
Old 11-20-2010, 12:33 AM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post
There are viruses that plant child pornography on your computer for various purposes.

One forum I visit has banned-and-erased a few people in the past for posting child porn or links to it as a "joke" or out of spite. It could accidentally get in your cache at least that way too I'd think.

If that's their idea of a "joke", that's seriously fucked up. I hope they reported these assbags.
  #31  
Old 11-20-2010, 01:44 AM
fuzzypickles fuzzypickles is offline
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Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post
One forum I visit has banned-and-erased a few people in the past for posting child porn or links to it as a "joke" or out of spite. It could accidentally get in your cache at least that way too I'd think.
Heck, it could get in your cache by visiting a blog w/dozens of innocuous photos at the top, and you never bother to scroll down to the bottom...or a Google image search, since the images pre-load before you scroll down.

That's why I can't believe this guy merely had a few jpgs in his browser cache; that kind of charge would get thrown out almost immediately.
  #32  
Old 11-20-2010, 02:17 AM
Hilarity N. Suze Hilarity N. Suze is offline
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I am not going to do the google searches. But, at one point, I received not just one, but several emails pointing to what sounded to me like it could very well be underaged children.

I did not click on these links, and I deleted the emails and freaked out.

Now we all know you have to be an idiot to click on those kinds of things, but this was around 2001-2002, and I could see someone innocently doing that. Specifically, at the time I had teenaged sons in my house, and who knows what they might have been searching for.

There are also ways for people to maliciously send it do you, so you don't even know you have it on your computer.

This site--US Dept. of Justice Child Exploitation & Obscenity Section--has some FAQs about what to do to stay safe and what procedure to follow should you run across child pornography. So, apparently, it can happen.
  #33  
Old 11-20-2010, 04:53 AM
Eliahna Eliahna is online now
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Back in the days of ICQ I had a spam message come through from a user I didn't know and didn't have on my friends list. That wasn't uncommon at the time. I did what I usually did to trace and report it and in the process I clicked on the link. It took me to a site with an explicit pornographic image of a young child.

I was horrified and spent the next 24 hours reporting the link to anyone I could think of - the police, the site host, and their upstream, the Australian telecommunications watchdog, any American agencies I could find that appeared to investigate child porn, etc. I checked the site a few times with a finger over the stop button so I could stop it loading further before any images downloaded (dial up was good for something), and after a day or so the site vanished, and then I emptied my cache repeatedly and considered a format and reboot - some brain bleach would have been nice too.

So, yes, I have accidentally found child porn on the internet while engaged in a completely innocent activity - not P2P, not surfing porn sites, just sitting on ICQ chatting to my friends and reporting the odd spammer to their site host.

Last edited by Eliahna; 11-20-2010 at 04:53 AM.. Reason: Now with paragraphs for added readability!
  #34  
Old 11-20-2010, 02:43 PM
Shodan Shodan is online now
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Originally Posted by fluiddruid View Post
If you haven't been there before, it'd probably be more likely to see it by accident, since you wouldn't necessary know what this means.
I trust that you wouldn't link to anything horrific, but I can't work up the nerve to click, and the hover-over is not enough information to reassure me. What does it mean?

Regards,
Shodan
  #35  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:08 PM
Eyebrows 0f Doom Eyebrows 0f Doom is offline
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I trust that you wouldn't link to anything horrific, but I can't work up the nerve to click, and the hover-over is not enough information to reassure me. What does it mean?

Regards,
Shodan
It's a cartoon drawing of a bear.
  #36  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:48 PM
standingwave standingwave is offline
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Originally Posted by Markxxx View Post
It depends to on age. Is a 17 year old in a porno, child porn?
Legally speaking, according to U.S. statutes, they're the same thing. Are they treated the same in practice? Apparently not. According to wiki:

Legal definitions of child pornography generally include sexual images involving both prepubescent and post-pubescent teenage minors and computer-generated images that appear to involve them.[16] Most possessors of child pornography who are arrested are found to possess images of prepubescent children; possessors of pornographic images of post-pubescent minors are less likely to be prosecuted, even though those images also fall within the statutes.[16]
Wells, M.; Finkelhor, D.; Wolak, J.; Mitchell, K. (2007). "Defining Child Pornography: Law Enforcement Dilemmas in Investigations of Internet Child Pornography Possession" (PDF). Police Practice and Research 8 (3): 269282. doi:10.1080/15614260701450765. http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV96.pdf. Retrieved 2008-07-01.

The Sun and other British tabloids have also provoked controversy by featuring girls as young as 16 as topless models. Samantha Fox, Maria Whittaker, Debee Ashby, and many others began their topless modeling careers in The Sun at that age, while the Daily Sport was even known to count down the days until it could feature a teenage girl topless on her 16th birthday, as it did with Linsey Dawn McKenzie in 1994, among others. Although such photographs were legally permissible in the United Kingdom under the Protection of Children Act 1978, critics noted the irony of Murdoch's Sun and News of the World newspapers calling for stricter laws on the sexual abuse of minors, including the public identification of released paedophiles, while publishing topless photographs of girls whom many other jurisdictions would legally classify as underage minors.[10] Controversy over these young models ended when the Sexual Offences Act 2003 raised the minimum age for topless modeling to 18.
Hoge, Warren (August 7, 2000). "Britain Fights Tide of Anti-Pedophile Attacks". The New York Times. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5BC0A9669C8B63.
  #37  
Old 11-20-2010, 04:27 PM
Quartz Quartz is online now
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I have been professionally involved in a case. The person sought it out. It's out there. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.
  #38  
Old 11-20-2010, 06:02 PM
ethelbert ethelbert is offline
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Some government agency does set up sting operations. A few years ago someone in my office was caught by one. He didn't tell anybody, but I happened upon a local newspaper article about it (I can't find it any more, so I really don't have a cite). I also recall reading a magazine article (I think it was Playboy) that talked about it back in the 70's (again, no cite). I recall them making the statement that the Post Office at the time owned the world's largest collection of child porn (and no, they did not create it). I don't know if the Post Office is still involved since it does not generally go through the mail, but they were the ones operating the stings at the time.
  #39  
Old 11-20-2010, 06:36 PM
fuzzypickles fuzzypickles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethelbert View Post
I recall them making the statement that the Post Office at the time owned the world's largest collection of child porn (and no, they did not create it). I don't know if the Post Office is still involved since it does not generally go through the mail, but they were the ones operating the stings at the time.
Nowadays, most sting operations don't involve any genuine child porn at all, since U.S. law only requires criminal intent to convict someone. Therefore, a typical FBI sting will involve a faux webpage (perhaps with some technically legal naturist or modeling photos) with a link saying, "Click here to see 5yo girls having sex!" When a pervert clicks the link, the FBI tracks his IP address and dispatches a police car. No children are put at risk, another sick bastard goes to jail, it's a win-win situation.
  #40  
Old 10-30-2012, 06:01 PM
trippyfatt trippyfatt is offline
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Answer facts

I just retired from the FBI after 25 years and heck I will be a wistle blower.

There is a difference beetween CHILD PORNOGRAPHY and POROGRAPHY INVOLVING MINOS UNDER 15. Child pornography ( up until 9 years ago, child pornography could be googled ) At that time spam was running rampid and you could recive uncoliceted advertisments. In America KP is controled and only accesable by the FBI and DOJ. We did not have the tecnology to automaticlly searh for these site at time. Sadley to say Child Pornography could not be blocked. For ever site that is shut down there are 10 new sites. Most of the sites originated in RUSSIA JAPAN UKRAIN and some other forign countys. America had no legal coperation from russia at the time. Also due to the number of people that where counsomers ( millions ) It was impossible to enforce it... The industry was a gold mind catering to many consumers all over the world. USA had the most consumers. And it was impossible to arrest the tens of thousands of counsumers.

Only a small fraction of counsumers who where selectet targets where arrested and
often would not be convicted of recie a week sentance.. Unless there is a particular site that deplicts pre pubesent children ( not tenagers ) that diplicked
Absue tourcure movies and trading ( that is ring ) LEA wount bother most of the time. There are existing sites in forighn countrys. They are not accessable in the USA. My advice to you if you know how to access these sites - Is get help, for one your hacking into govt servers and - not many people know how to do this. Also your information goes directly to the DOJ and ICE. So those are just some facts...

To access and join a site in a foriegn county - you must go through the Law Enforcment and you will be caught.
  #41  
Old 10-30-2012, 06:07 PM
tellyworth tellyworth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trippyfatt View Post
In America KP is controled and only accesable by the FBI and DOJ.
(snip)
There are existing sites in forighn countrys. They are not accessable in the USA.
What does this mean? Are you claiming there is a mechanism in place in the USA that gives law enforcement the ability to censor access to web sites hosted offshore?

(zombie thread)
  #42  
Old 10-30-2012, 06:38 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trippyfatt View Post
I just retired from the FBI after 25 years and heck I will be a wistle blower.

There is a difference beetween CHILD PORNOGRAPHY and POROGRAPHY INVOLVING MINOS UNDER 15. Child pornography ( up until 9 years ago, child pornography could be googled ) At that time spam was running rampid and you could recive uncoliceted advertisments. In America KP is controled and only accesable by the FBI and DOJ. We did not have the tecnology to automaticlly searh for these site at time. Sadley to say Child Pornography could not be blocked. For ever site that is shut down there are 10 new sites. Most of the sites originated in RUSSIA JAPAN UKRAIN and some other forign countys. America had no legal coperation from russia at the time. Also due to the number of people that where counsomers ( millions ) It was impossible to enforce it... The industry was a gold mind catering to many consumers all over the world. USA had the most consumers. And it was impossible to arrest the tens of thousands of counsumers.

Only a small fraction of counsumers who where selectet targets where arrested and
often would not be convicted of recie a week sentance.. Unless there is a particular site that deplicts pre pubesent children ( not tenagers ) that diplicked
Absue tourcure movies and trading ( that is ring ) LEA wount bother most of the time. There are existing sites in forighn countrys. They are not accessable in the USA. My advice to you if you know how to access these sites - Is get help, for one your hacking into govt servers and - not many people know how to do this. Also your information goes directly to the DOJ and ICE. So those are just some facts...

To access and join a site in a foriegn county - you must go through the Law Enforcment and you will be caught.
Given the number of spelling & grammatical errors, and given that FBI Agents are college educated, & given that all Federal Agents are either Lawyers or Accountants, & given that they type reports all the time...I'm a wee tad skeptical of your claims.
__________________
.
"He is an abomination of science that curdles the milk of all honest men!"~~One Dr Chouteh, possibly commenting on Bosda Di'Chi.Or not.
  #43  
Old 10-30-2012, 06:41 PM
Astroboy14 Astroboy14 is offline
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I'll buy drunk and trying to type on a smartphone...
  #44  
Old 10-30-2012, 06:50 PM
Lasciel Lasciel is offline
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I'll buy "trippy" aint referring to the wallpaper.
  #45  
Old 10-30-2012, 06:53 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor View Post
Given the number of spelling & grammatical errors, and given that FBI Agents are college educated, & given that all Federal Agents are either Lawyers or Accountants, & given that they type reports all the time...I'm a wee tad skeptical of your claims.
Beaten to it.
  #46  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:26 PM
dam0 dam0 is offline
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If you want to seek it, you can get it. It's not hard to come across if you're interested in a certain type of legal porn and keep diving deeper and deeper in to the network of links which all feed each other. Eventually the sites you are taken too will get darker and darker until you hit rock bottom.
  #47  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:41 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trippyfatt View Post
I just retired from the FBI after 25 years and heck I will be a wistle blower.

There is a difference beetween CHILD PORNOGRAPHY and POROGRAPHY INVOLVING MINOS UNDER 15. Child pornography ( up until 9 years ago, child pornography could be googled ) At that time spam was running rampid and you could recive uncoliceted advertisments. In America KP is controled and only accesable by the FBI and DOJ. We did not have the tecnology to automaticlly searh for these site at time. Sadley to say Child Pornography could not be blocked. For ever site that is shut down there are 10 new sites. Most of the sites originated in RUSSIA JAPAN UKRAIN and some other forign countys. America had no legal coperation from russia at the time. Also due to the number of people that where counsomers ( millions ) It was impossible to enforce it... The industry was a gold mind catering to many consumers all over the world. USA had the most consumers. And it was impossible to arrest the tens of thousands of counsumers.

Only a small fraction of counsumers who where selectet targets where arrested and
often would not be convicted of recie a week sentance.. Unless there is a particular site that deplicts pre pubesent children ( not tenagers ) that diplicked
Absue tourcure movies and trading ( that is ring ) LEA wount bother most of the time. There are existing sites in forighn countrys. They are not accessable in the USA. My advice to you if you know how to access these sites - Is get help, for one your hacking into govt servers and - not many people know how to do this. Also your information goes directly to the DOJ and ICE. So those are just some facts...

To access and join a site in a foriegn county - you must go through the Law Enforcment and you will be caught.
This is bad. Very, very bad. You should be ashamed of yourself.
  #48  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:42 PM
Frylock Frylock is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor View Post
all Federal Agents are either Lawyers or Accountants,
Sorry to be dense--was the above intended as a joke, or is it a fact?
  #49  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:43 PM
April R April R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagnasty View Post

Real child porn, bestiality pics, and everything else you can imagine still exists out there on the internet but you generally won't find it on Google which is a good thing for all of us. I wouldn't believe anyone today that gave that defense as a general rule but I can see how it could have happened at one time.
You can find bestiality pics on a google search just fine. Just google girl with dog hard core or something similar and it pops up right up in yo face.
  #50  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:47 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor View Post
Given the number of spelling & grammatical errors, and given that FBI Agents are college educated, & given that all Federal Agents are either Lawyers or Accountants, & given that they type reports all the time...I'm a wee tad skeptical of your claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock View Post
Sorry to be dense--was the above intended as a joke, or is it a fact?
He's partly right.
FBI Qualifications
Quote:
All applicants for the Special Agent position must first qualify under one of five Special Agent Entry Programs. These programs include:

Accounting
Computer Science/Information Technology
Language
Law
Diversified
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