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  #1  
Old 11-30-2010, 02:40 PM
constanze constanze is offline
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Disabling guns: how easy or difficult?

(Don't need answer fast)

Hypothetical scenario, which comes up often in fiction: the good guys are searching through the bad guys house/ car/ stuff and happen unto a gun. They think the gun might be used by the bad guy against them later, so they want to disable the gun. How easy or hard is that to do, with no tools/ limited tools/ special tools?

I'm using "guns" as a generic name, I guess there are differences between Pistol-handguns, rifle-long guns, and machine pistols. (Full machine guns probably won't be lying around).

And I'm thinking of guns common in the 70s to 90s. Nothing exotic, the garden-variety of models.
Or would the great variety of models mean that only an expert can do it, a normal person is too stumped? Or can a normal person learn the basic moves that apply to half-a-dozen similar in build?

One variation is that the good guys take the weapon to arm themselves, but that betrays their presence, and the bad guys can take another gun from a reserve stash.
Another common scene is, after you have disarmed your opponent, to empty the shells out of the handgun and throw it back at him, which often blows up when the opponent goes and reloads with new ammunition.

Therefore, I'm looking for a simple way to disable a handgun, machine-pistol or rifle-gun. Bonus points if it can be done in a few minutes and the repair will take hours. It should be done quietly. The tools, if needed, should not be extraordinary (who carries around a blowtorch or buzzsaw?). Bonus points also if the bad guy doesn't see it immediatly.
So, can you for example take apart a Walter pistol and pocket the firing pin, and re-assemble it? Can you use a cigarette heater for 10 seconds to bend a crucial thingie inside out of shape or too brittle? Can you jam one bullet in such a way that it can't be removed easily?

Or are modern weapons built on purpose to be sturdy, easy to dis-assemble and repair, and can be disabled / destroyed only with a blowtorch?

(In one story in the 19th century - though I don't know if it was true even then - the hero takes a rifle, takes of the flint cap, pushes a pin he always carries on the inside of his vest in the firing hole and breaks it off. The rifle is now "nailed" - can't be fired - but it's difficult to figure out and hard to repair. Technology has changed, however, and modern rifles don't have flint caps or flint stones and so on).
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2010, 02:48 PM
OldGuy OldGuy is offline
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Quite generally the ammo could be removed. I can't think of a gun in which this couldn't be done easily, though I'm sure someone will point one out. This won't help if the villains are carrying spare ammo of course.

I'd think if you had a dowel of the right size and put it into the barrel and then banged the end of the dowel on the floor driving it tightly into the barrel, it might be hard to dislodge. If you had some soft modeling clay, I'd think you could jam it in the barrel or into the cylinders of a pistol. I'd be quite hesitant to fire such a gun until I was absolutely sure it had been cleaned out.

I'm pretty sure you could bend the barrel of most rifles beyond use by jamming them between a door frame and a door and pulling on it. You might be able to do this with a hand gun, but you'd have less leverage.
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2010, 02:52 PM
constanze constanze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGuy View Post
Quite generally the ammo could be removed. I can't think of a gun in which this couldn't be done easily, though I'm sure someone will point one out. This won't help if the villains are carrying spare ammo of course.
Let's assume that the bad guys have spare ammo. This is too easily repaired for my taste.

Quote:
I'd think if you had a dowel of the right size and put it into the barrel and then banged the end of the dowel on the floor driving it tightly into the barrel, it might be hard to dislodge.
How big a dowel? Would that make a loud noise?

Quote:
If you had some soft modeling clay, I'd think you could jam it in the barrel or into the cylinders of a pistol. I'd be quite hesitant to fire such a gun until I was absolutely sure it had been cleaned out.
So what would happen when the bad guy doesn't notice the clay - would the cylinder not turn, or would it explode in his hand?

Quote:
I'm pretty sure you could bend the barrel of most rifles beyond use by jamming them between a door frame and a door and pulling on it. You might be able to do this with a hand gun, but you'd have less leverage.
Ah yes, I can see that for long guns, but not handguns. Hmmm. Thanks for the ideas.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2010, 02:59 PM
Shagnasty Shagnasty is offline
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A lot of guns have critical parts that can be removed without tools. This could be the bolt on a rifle for instance. It won't work for all guns but you could just remove a critical part or two and hang onto it. The gun won't work without it. Clips and magazines are easy to hang onto as well. It is possible to shoot a shot at a time without one if you have spare ammo but it isn't fast or easy.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2010, 02:59 PM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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How obvious can the damage be, and how long does the disabling have to last once the bad guys figure it out?

It's going to be very, very gun dependent by the way. An AR-15 is made to dissassemble using the tip of a cartridge as the only tool - you could take it apart, remove the firing pin, and reassemble in 2 minutes or so. Undetectable without a close inspection, and if you don't have a spare firing pin handy, you aren't fixing it. Or even better, remove the bolt cam pin - they'll get one shot off, but the rifle will explode in their face.

A revolver, on the other hand, would be pretty difficult to invisibly disable without tools. I guess you could jam something in the space between the hammer and the frame so the hammer can't come forward and strike the firing pin, but I'd be very reluctant to trust my life on that.

ETA: To do any disassembly/reassembly, you'd probably have to be knowledgeable about the gun at hand. At least for the reassembly part. My AR-15 trick certainly wouldn't be obvious to someone who isn't familiar with guns, even if they're handy otherwise.

Last edited by muldoonthief; 11-30-2010 at 03:03 PM..
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2010, 03:05 PM
Lare Lare is offline
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As Shagnasty said, there are guns with critical parts that can be removed without tools. One of the best would be if you could remove the firing pin from a pistol. (For example, you could do this on most, if not all, Glock pistols without tools and without it being immediately obvious.)

This is something that can be done quickly (if you know what you're doing). It could be reversed just as fast...if the bad guy has a spare firing pin lying around, otherwise it's more of a blunt object than a projectile weapon.

Taking a bolt from a rifle is usually something that would be visible and I thought the OP was against that.

Taking the ammo out might or might not be noticed depending on how it affects the weight of the weapon. It would probably be very noticeable on my hypothetical Glock pistol but maybe not so much on a rifle. (Speaking of rifles, you could easily take the firing pin from an AR-15/M-16 without much in the way of tools, too.) (ETA: Scooped on this one by muldoonthief.)

Last edited by Lare; 11-30-2010 at 03:06 PM.. Reason: I type too slowly.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2010, 03:12 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Quoth OldGuy:
Quote:
If you had some soft modeling clay, I'd think you could jam it in the barrel or into the cylinders of a pistol.
Or, for something the heroes are more likely to have on them, chewing gum.
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2010, 03:14 PM
Chessic Sense Chessic Sense is offline
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I'd go for the firing pin. On a handgun, you can probably bend it out of shape so either the hammer doesn't strike it or the tip can't hit the round squarely. In a rifle, you can just take it out. They won't notice it until they pull the trigger. Even then, they probably wouldn't be able to identify the problem without taking it apart.

I can take apart and reassemble an M-16 (AR-15), blindfolded, in two minutes IIRC. The firing pin is step 4 or 6, so you can do it pretty quickly. Maybe 30 seconds, with your eyes open, from start to finish?

A handgun would be much harder because the pin is fixed and it's small. But if you've got, say, a screwdriver, it can't be that hard to break. If you can't get to the firing pin, I suggest breaking the spring that connects the trigger to everything else. The bad guy will pull the trigger and it won't do a damn thing.
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2010, 03:16 PM
Acid Lamp Acid Lamp is offline
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Well depending on what our intrepid heroes have available to them you could mess up a revolver by snapping off the tip of a knife into the spaces where the cylinder turns. If it is not a blacked/ blued finished our baddies might not notice that little shiv of metal stuck in the slot.
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2010, 04:32 PM
drachillix drachillix is offline
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My thought, plug the barrel. Especially if you have something like modeling clay, a squirt of adhesive of your choice, even stuffing a decent wad of paper towel or napkin down the barrel and poking it in out of sight can burst a barrel or a variety of other catastrophic failures. The adhesive would be most effective if given time to dry but anything in the barrel is BAD when you pull the trigger.
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  #11  
Old 11-30-2010, 05:58 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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If you just want to disable a weapon to avoid having to carry it away with you, that is as simple as it gets for every weapon I can think of.

As others have noted, you can remove the bolt for bolt action/semi-automatic rifles. For revolvers you can remove the cylinder. For automatic handguns, remove the slide. Any of those actions take less than 20 seconds and can be done using your bare hands.

For pump action shotguns you can remove the whole trigger assembly in less than a minute using just a screwdriver.

The most difficult to disable would probably be a break action and lever action weapons. To disable those you do actually need to disassemble them and remove either the trigger of the spring. Still just takes a couple of minutes and uses just a screwdriver.

If you want to disable the weapons without it being obvious, that's a little harder, though not a lot.

Most bolt action/semi-auto rifles you can remove the firing pin with no tools in under two minutes. Wost case scenario you need a spanner (or a doorjamb to act as a vice).

For automatic handguns you can remove the recoil rod and spring with your bare hands in less than a minute.

For revolvers, you can remove the the mainspring in less than two minute with just a screwdriver.

Break action and lever action weapons, remove the spring.


If you do any of these things, the weapon can only be repaired if you have spare parts available. No amount of work in a standard home workshop is ever going to repair it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muldoonthief
To do any disassembly/reassembly, you'd probably have to be knowledgeable about the gun at hand.
This.

Although generally speaking all weapons of a common type can be disassembled in the same way.

So anyone who knows how to disassemble one automatic pistol can figure out how disassemble most of them well enough to disable them within a minute. Anyone who knows how to disassemble on revolver can figure out how to disassemble most of them within a minute and so forth. There will be oddities, like revolvers with oddly placed cylinder pins or rifles where the bolt has to be moved in some odd way to be removed, but generally speaking anyone familiar with a specific type of weapon will be able to disable any weapon of that type rapidly and without obvous signs of tampering.


Quote:
A revolver, on the other hand, would be pretty difficult to invisibly disable without tools.
It surprised me the first time I saw it, but no. It's unexpectedly fast. Just remove the mainspring. Takes less than a minute. You do need tools I suppose, but only something that will function as a screwdriver, like a small coin or a knife.
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2010, 05:59 PM
coremelt coremelt is offline
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Originally Posted by drachillix View Post
My thought, plug the barrel. Especially if you have something like modeling clay, a squirt of adhesive of your choice, even stuffing a decent wad of paper towel or napkin down the barrel and poking it in out of sight can burst a barrel or a variety of other catastrophic failures.
what about fillng the barrel with sand and then blocking it pushing a wad of chewing gum in as far as you can with chopsticks or a pencil? (so that the chewing gum isn't visible)

Presume that would do the job and with commonly available items? Use plain dirt (or salt from the kitchen) if no sand available.

Last edited by coremelt; 11-30-2010 at 06:00 PM..
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2010, 06:18 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Originally Posted by coremelt View Post
what about fillng the barrel with sand and then blocking it pushing a wad of chewing gum in as far as you can with chopsticks or a pencil? (so that the chewing gum isn't visible)

Presume that would do the job and with commonly available items? Use plain dirt (or salt from the kitchen) if no sand available.
1) It would take longer than simply removing the slide/cylinder.

2) It would take about the same time as removing the spring/recoil rod.

3) Barrels are open at both ends, so any sand or salt that you pour in can just as easily be poured out.
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2010, 06:39 PM
Squink Squink is offline
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Fortunately, the bad guy has been insulating the cracks between his porch and the rest of the house. There's a half used can of expanding foam insulation on the kitchen table.
A little squirt down the barrel, and no bullet from that gun is going anywhere in a hurry. Hard to notice, if you're neat about it, too.
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2010, 07:00 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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You might be better off with that cool gun from a Matt Helm movie that shoots backwards. Take the gun, when you encounter the bad guy, give up and hand him the gun. Then attack, he'll shoot himself.

How well does plugging the barrel with modeling clay or pouring in sand or salt work? Seems like anything loose will come out of the barrel under pressure when its fired. Lead bullets might deform enough not to get jammed up by a little grit. I think the place to put substances like that would be in the firing mechanism, but I don't have any experience jamming guns.
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2010, 07:07 PM
tellyworth tellyworth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drachillix View Post
My thought, plug the barrel. Especially if you have something like modeling clay, a squirt of adhesive of your choice, even stuffing a decent wad of paper towel or napkin down the barrel and poking it in out of sight can burst a barrel or a variety of other catastrophic failures. The adhesive would be most effective if given time to dry but anything in the barrel is BAD when you pull the trigger.
Mythbusters tried this with a shotgun and it didn't work at all.

Even welding a steel plug into the end of the barrel didn't cause it to explode - it would undoubtably have killed whoever it was pointed at, and probably not have done much harm to the shooter.

An obstruction can cause a gun to fail, but it's far from guaranteed, and apparently pretty hard to make it happen on purpose.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2010, 08:15 PM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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Remove 1 of the bullets from its casing, and then jam that bullet it into the barrel past the chamber. The barrel will explode if the gun is shot with a plugged barrel. Takes only about a minute to do.
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2010, 08:57 PM
silenus silenus is online now
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For a semi-auto, just remove the slide. Throw it in the dumpster. For a revolver, remove the grips and trash the trigger assembly. Easy, quick and very effective. Same thing for rifles. As others have said, they are easy to disassemble and require all the parts to function.

Last edited by silenus; 11-30-2010 at 08:58 PM..
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2010, 09:23 PM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by constanze View Post
One variation is that the good guys take the weapon to arm themselves, but that betrays their presence, and the bad guys can take another gun from a reserve stash.

Therefore, I'm looking for a simple way to disable a handgun, machine-pistol or rifle-gun. Bonus points if it can be done in a few minutes and the repair will take hours. It should be done quietly. The tools, if needed, should not be extraordinary . Bonus points also if the bad guy doesn't see it immediatly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus View Post
For a semi-auto, just remove the slide. Throw it in the dumpster. For a revolver, remove the grips and trash the trigger assembly. Easy, quick and very effective. Same thing for rifles. As others have said, they are easy to disassemble and require all the parts to function.

I think the bad guy will see this (notice that the slide is missing or that the revolver is in the dumpster)......................and then he will just use another gun

Last edited by Susanann; 11-30-2010 at 09:26 PM..
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:00 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Originally Posted by silenus View Post
For a revolver, remove the grips and trash the trigger assembly.
It is faster to remove the cylinder pin and throw the cylinder in the bin.
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  #21  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:22 PM
ChrisBooth12 ChrisBooth12 is offline
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Take the gun. Damage the gun, take out the firing pin. Take out the spring.

Damage the hell out of the gun, make it misfire or better yet blow up

Last edited by ChrisBooth12; 11-30-2010 at 10:23 PM..
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:00 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisBooth12 View Post
Take the gun. Damage the gun, take out the firing pin. Take out the spring.

Damage the hell out of the gun, make it misfire or better yet blow up
Yes, that was the question.

Do you have an answer?
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:38 PM
SmithCommaJohn SmithCommaJohn is offline
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Pour something highly corrosive into the barrel or trigger assembly (forgive my ignorance - wherever you'll find the most moving parts)?
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  #24  
Old 12-01-2010, 12:04 AM
Projammer Projammer is offline
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About the only thing that would be universally effective would be to squirt a tube of superglue into the trigger assembly. No one would be the wiser until they tried to pull the trigger.
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  #25  
Old 12-01-2010, 12:40 AM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Originally Posted by SmithCommaJohn View Post
Pour something highly corrosive into the barrel or trigger assembly (forgive my ignorance - wherever you'll find the most moving parts)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Projammer View Post
About the only thing that would be universally effective would be to squirt a tube of superglue into the trigger assembly. No one would be the wiser until they tried to pull the trigger.
Yeah, messing with the mechanism sounds like a better idea than messing with the explosive part. Especially if you end up with the gun pointed at you.
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2010, 12:43 AM
2square4u 2square4u is offline
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Originally Posted by Susanann View Post
The barrel will explode if the gun is shot with a plugged barrel.
Correction: The barrel may explode if the gun is shot with a plugged barrel. It's only in the movies that this happens every time. If the shooter is lucky, the bullets will still exit the muzzle without the gun blowing up in his/her face. Example. Some service pistols, like the H&K P30L, have been designed to withstand a shot with a bullet stuck in the barrel without blowing up. However, the barrel will be ruined and must be replaced.

I'd go for what the others who seem to have some knowledge about guns recommend: Remove the firing pin. It's unobtrusive and the gun is just as useful as another piece of steel, wood and plastic.

Last edited by 2square4u; 12-01-2010 at 12:43 AM..
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2010, 08:51 AM
YamatoTwinkie YamatoTwinkie is offline
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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
It is faster to remove the cylinder pin and throw the cylinder in the bin.
It is faster to just take the whole revolver and throw it in the bin.
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  #28  
Old 12-01-2010, 09:34 AM
ZipperJJ ZipperJJ is online now
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I think I've seen this on a documentary...just put your finger in the business end of the barrel and when fired the gun will splinter like a reed, possibly backfiring.

The name of the documentary, IIRC, was "Loony Toons"
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  #29  
Old 12-01-2010, 09:40 AM
control-z control-z is online now
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You'd really need knowledge of disassembly for that particular firearm to take parts out quickly and easily. Otherwise you'd need extra equipment like superglue or spray foam insulation. Revolvers or bolt-action rifles might be an exception.

Overall I think it's easier just to put the gun somewhere inaccessible.
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  #30  
Old 12-01-2010, 02:01 PM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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Originally Posted by 2square4u View Post
Remove the firing pin. It's unobtrusive and the gun is just as useful as another piece of steel, wood and plastic.
I agree removing the firing pin would guarantee the gun would not fire, however, it would take most people a LOT!!!!! longer than "a few minutes" to make the gun inoperable by taking out or damaging the firing pin, which is what the OP is looking for. Something fast. In fact, I really do not think most people could even do it (assuming they even know what a firing pin is).

Removing a bullet and jamming it into the barrel is the quickest and easiest thing to do and able to do it without needing special tools.

If you are soooooooooooooooo worried about the gun not blowing up with a bullet lodged in the barrel, then jam 2 bullets, jam 3 bullets into the barrel.
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  #31  
Old 12-01-2010, 02:52 PM
silenus silenus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanann View Post
I think the bad guy will see this (notice that the slide is missing or that the revolver is in the dumpster)......................and then he will just use another gun
Then just remove the slide stop pin. Not immediately noticeable, can be done in less than 3 seconds and renders the gun completely useless. Jamming bullets down the barrel requires tools, unless you are a lot stronger than I am! Prying a bullet loose from its brass takes a good pair of pliers, minimum.
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  #32  
Old 12-01-2010, 02:55 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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I still don't understand why you don't throw the gun away, or keep it and shoot the guy. It's kind of like the bad guy and James Bond. Don't show him where the self destruct button is and then have an incompetent stooge lead him away, just shoot him.
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  #33  
Old 12-01-2010, 03:52 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is online now
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Alistair MacLean was notoriously misinformed about some things, but his protagonist in When Eight Bells Toll filed down the firing pin with a three cornered file.
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  #34  
Old 12-01-2010, 04:14 PM
Irishman Irishman is online now
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An episode of Burn Notice had an example of this. The bad guy wanted to disable the good guy's weapon but not alert the good guy it was busted, because the bad guy was under cover as the good guy's client, but was really an assassin, using the good guy to hunt down the target. So the trick was to steal the trigger spring while the gun was in the glove box and the good guy went into a gas station/store. Worked like a charm.

SPOILER:
The good guy, Michael Weston, was able to jury rig a replacement using a bobby pin, but it only gave him one shot.


The scenario is that you need something from the bad guy so you need to pretend he has the drop on you/think his gun works so he thinks he has the advantage.

Another example was from Die Hard when Bruce Willis handed Alan Rickman the unloaded gun, and Alan didn't check himself.
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  #35  
Old 12-01-2010, 04:15 PM
2square4u 2square4u is offline
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Originally Posted by Susanann View Post
jam 2 bullets, jam 3 bullets into the barrel.
Ever tried to jam a bullet down a barrel? No? Thought so. You see, the rifling cuts into the bullet, and the friction makes that a not particularly easy endeavor. Then try doing that with two or three bullets. Good luck, it's gonna take you some time and cost you some sweat. Unless, of course, you're dealing with a flintlock musket, and even then you're gonna need a ramrod.

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Originally Posted by 2square4u View Post
Remove the firing pin.
On afterthought, I'd go for removing the entire gun rather than the firing pin, as others have suggested. Fastest and easiest solution.
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  #36  
Old 12-01-2010, 07:04 PM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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Originally Posted by Susanann
jam 2 bullets, jam 3 bullets into the barrel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2square4u View Post
Ever tried to jam a bullet down a barrel? No? Thought so. You see, the rifling cuts into the bullet, and the friction makes that a not particularly easy endeavor. Then try doing that with two or three bullets. Good luck, it's gonna take you some time and cost you some sweat.
Naw, I have a hammer. Hammers are pretty easy to come by, and I can easily pound a bullet into a barrel with a hammer in about 15 seconds. If you cant find a hammer, then use a rock and a nail. Nothing to it!

As far as 2 or 3 bullets, that was only for those who think a barrel completely jammed with 1 bullet is not enough. I personally would only jam 1 bullet into the barrel, 1 bullet completely and tightly jamming the barrel is usually enough to prevent the gun from shooting properly.
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  #37  
Old 12-01-2010, 09:08 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Originally Posted by YamatoTwinkie View Post
It is faster to just take the whole revolver and throw it in the bin.
Which wasn't the question.

Why do some Dopers feel the need to answer questions that very specifically were not asked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2square4u View Post
On afterthought, I'd go for removing the entire gun rather than the firing pin, as others have suggested. Fastest and easiest solution.
The Bad Guy may well have an arsenal of, say, 50 weapons. That isn't all that unusual. IIRC several Dopers have collections of that size. A single person on foot is not going to carry 50 handguns, much less 50 longarms.

Even if there is only one longarm, where are you going to remove it to?

I can think of a million places to hide a cylinder of slide in a normal house where nobody would find it for months. A firing pin or spring could be flushed down the toilet. Hiding a longarm is going to take longer than disabling it.





Removing weapons is not always easy.
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  #38  
Old 12-02-2010, 12:57 AM
2square4u 2square4u is offline
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Originally Posted by Susanann View Post
1 bullet completely and tightly jamming the barrel is usually enough to prevent the gun from shooting properly.
It all depends on what you mean by "shooting properly". Yes, precision will go south, the barrel will be ruined and should be replaced and recoil will be excessive, but there's no guarantee that the bullets won't exit the muzzle still able to maim and/or kill. At a range typical for handgun combat, the bullet(s) may just as well hit you as not even if the precision of the gun is busted. Yes, jamming the barrel is a Very Bad Idea for the gunowner, because the result is a ruined gun and a much-higher-than-acceptable risk of the gun blowing up and maiming the shooter. The problem for the target is that it's just as likely that the gun will still fire somehow. For modern guns, it's probably more likely that the gun will not blow up.

In short: If you're the shooter, don't jam the barrel. That can be nasty. If you're bing shot at, don't bet your life on standing in front of a firearm with a jammed barrel. That gun is still pretty damned dangerous at the business end. In fact, guns are generally pretty damned dangerous.

ETA: Some guns, like the Mauser M98 or John Browning's Colt 1911 were made to work under pretty bad conditions, like trench warfare. They were made to not blow up from small problems. Pretty damned good engineering, those things.

Last edited by 2square4u; 12-02-2010 at 01:02 AM..
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  #39  
Old 12-02-2010, 07:35 AM
YamatoTwinkie YamatoTwinkie is offline
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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
Which wasn't the question.

Why do some Dopers feel the need to answer questions that very specifically were not asked?
Why do some Dopers not read the OP? I doubt "removing the cylinder and throwing it in the bin" is going to go unnoticed on a revolver for very long.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:48 AM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake View Post
Which wasn't the question.

Why do some Dopers feel the need to answer questions that very specifically were not asked?
I often wonder why some of us answer, "What is your favorite single [insert subject here]?" with a list.
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  #41  
Old 12-02-2010, 09:00 AM
silenus silenus is online now
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By my count, the OP asks 19 specific questions and implies a great number of other ones.

Tossing the gun in the river was pretty much ruled out by the OP, however. But if Our Hero has as much time and equipment as some posters are assuming, he could just unload the weapon, pull the bullets, dump the powder and reseat the lead, then reload the weapon with functionless ammo. The Bad Guy couldn't tell this was done until he pulled the trigger.
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:41 AM
ChickenLegs ChickenLegs is offline
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Here's an easy one:

Smith & Wesson revolvers of recent manufacture have an integral lock. They come with a small key. When engaged, the lock prevents the trigger form being pulled.

(These locks are generally despised by the gun-owning community, for being at best an unnecessary cost, and at worst unintentionally preventing the gun from firing.)

As far as I know, all the keys are identical. It's just a small hollow hex shape. I carry mine on my key ring with my car keys. I'm not a crime fighting hero, but I can disable any recently-made Smith & Wesson revolver in about five seconds. Of course, if the bad guy is also carrying his key...
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:16 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YamatoTwinkie View Post
Why do some Dopers not read the OP? I doubt "removing the cylinder and throwing it in the bin" is going to go unnoticed on a revolver for very long.
I wonder that too, since the OP never says that it has to be undetectable.

So why didn't you read the OP?
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  #44  
Old 12-02-2010, 04:43 PM
YamatoTwinkie YamatoTwinkie is offline
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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
I wonder that too, since the OP never says that it has to be undetectable.
Sure, but come on, removing the cylinder isn't merely "not undectectable", it's immediately apparent that someone has tampered with it. Under what scenarios that the OP posited would that at all be helpful?
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:10 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YamatoTwinkie View Post
Sure, but come on, removing the cylinder isn't merely "not undectectable", it's immediately apparent that someone has tampered with it. Under what scenarios that the OP posited would that at all be helpful?
I already explained that at length.

So apparently not only have you not read the Op, you haven't read the thread
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  #46  
Old 12-02-2010, 10:29 PM
Una Persson Una Persson is offline
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Come on, Blake. You've given excellent and useful information in this thread, as you usually do. There's no need for this fussing and feuding in here.

Perhaps you can explain to me a bit what the mainspring is in a revolver? I only have one revolver so I'm not that familiar with taking them apart, and I'm not certain what you mean by the mainspring (it's a Ruger Super Redhawk, if that makes a difference).
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:21 AM
Lare Lare is offline
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Originally Posted by Una Persson View Post

Perhaps you can explain to me a bit what the mainspring is in a revolver? I only have one revolver so I'm not that familiar with taking them apart, and I'm not certain what you mean by the mainspring (it's a Ruger Super Redhawk, if that makes a difference).
It's the spring that is compressed when the gun is cocked. It provides the necessary impetus for the hammer to drop, striking the firing pin (sometimes the firing pin is integral to the hammer) which results in the loud noise and projectile displacement through the barrel.

It's callout #50 in this schematic.

Last edited by Lare; 12-03-2010 at 08:23 AM.. Reason: Added pic.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:52 AM
Una Persson Una Persson is offline
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Originally Posted by Lare View Post
It's the spring that is compressed when the gun is cocked. It provides the necessary impetus for the hammer to drop, striking the firing pin (sometimes the firing pin is integral to the hammer) which results in the loud noise and projectile displacement through the barrel.

It's callout #50 in this schematic.
Holy crap there are a lot of miscellaneous parts in my gun. I mean, I've had it for more than 20 years, and I've never thought about how many tiny parts make it up. I've seen that spring now that your linked photo has refreshed my memory...hmm, not sure how easy it is to remove.

Last edited by Una Persson; 12-03-2010 at 08:53 AM..
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:18 AM
silenus silenus is online now
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With a screwdriver or two and a little bit of time, not hard at all. If you have those tools, you can also really trash any number of other parts of the trigger assembly. But swiping the mainspring does have a touch of panache.

Last edited by silenus; 12-03-2010 at 09:18 AM..
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  #50  
Old 12-03-2010, 09:53 AM
Lare Lare is offline
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Actually, I've never tried it on the Ruger Super Blackhawk, but I bet you could do it by taking off the grip (tool required: screwdriver) and then manually cocking the hammer. This compresses the spring. Take a paperclip (toll required: paperclip) and put it in the hole at the end of the spring. Uncock the hammer and lift out the spring. Put the grips back on (tool required: same screwdriver). Radiate panache.
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