The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Cafe Society

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:07 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Melody of "Little Town of Bethlehem" different in UK than in US?

This surprised me when I looked up the hymn in Wikipedia:

Quote:
Phillips Brooks (1835–1893), an Episcopal priest, Rector of the Church of the Holy Trinity, Philadelphia, was inspired when he was visiting the little town of Bethlehem in 1865. Three years later, he wrote the poem for his church and his organist, Lewis Redner, added the music. Redner's tune, simply titled "St. Louis", is the tune used most often for this carol in the United States. Meanwhile, the English tune "Forest Green", adapted by Ralph Vaughan Williams, is the tune most often used for this carol in the United Kingdom and sometimes in the U.S. as well, especially in the Episcopal Church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Little_Town_of_Bethlehem


I know that the music for hymns has, in the past, been much more mutable than it is today. On a recent visit to Sturbridge Village, the organist at the restored Church gave us demonstrations of hymns being sung with different music -- they had separate books with the music and the lyrics, and could mix and match if the meter worked out*.


It has been pointed out in multiple threads here that you can sing "Oh Little Town of Bethlehem" to different music, often hilariously different ( like the version I heard sung to the tune of "House of the Rising Sun.") But this is the first time that I heard the hymn was actually sung to different music on purpose and in a large portio n of the world.


The Wikipedia article claims some Episcopalians do this, too, in the US. The ones i know don't. So I have to ask -- do any Dopers, in the UK or elsewhere, sing this to a different music than you hear in US movies or recordings?






*This, the organist explained, is why "Star Spangled Banner" is so unsingable. The song "To Anacreon in Heaven" was, I knew, a drinking song. But apparently they made these songs difficult to sing -- with huge vocal ranges and the like -- because they were sung in drinking competitions, and you wanted to trip up your opponents with something a drunkard would have difficulty with. If this is true, it's not clear why we didn't switch over to a more forgiving tune long ago.







This site apparently gives the other tune:

http://www.greatscores.com/p/song/so...tmusic/1002424

Here's the Sheet Music:

http://christmas-carol-music.org/SAT...wn_Forest.html

Last edited by CalMeacham; 12-15-2010 at 09:11 AM..
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:40 AM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 18,003
I've never heard a different tune for "O Little Town of Bethlehem." But, at some point in my youth, my church got new hymnals, and the melody they had for "Away In a Manger" was not the old familiar one (with all descending notes in the first line), but a different one. At first I was scandalized—that's not the right tune!—but eventually I came to prefer this alternative tune, and to find the familiar one musically insipid. By which time the church had apparently decided that people wanted to sing the familiar tune, so they always went with that one.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:43 AM
Tom Scud Tom Scud is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
I generally prefer the British tunes for O Little Town and Away in a Manger, but the American tune for It Came Upon a Midnight Clear blows the British one away.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:47 AM
twickster twickster is offline
Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 38,168
Moved MPSIMS --> Cafe Society.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:52 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Okay. Now it's news to me that Away in a Manger and It Came Upon a Midnight Clear have different UK tunes, as well. I've never heard these alternate versions, or heard of them.


Quote:
In 1850, Richard Storrs Willis, a composer who trained under Felix Mendelssohn, wrote the melody called "Carol." This melody is most often set in the key of B-flat major in a six-eight time signature. "Carol" is the most widely known tune to the song in the United States.[1][3][4][5]

In the United Kingdom the tune called "Noel", which was adapted from an English melody in 1874 by Arthur Sullivan, is the usual accompaniment. This tune also appears as an alternate in The Hymnal 1982, the hymnal of the United States Episcopal Church.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Came...Midnight_Clear

Quote:
Murray's tune, which is the tune most commonly printed in the U.S., is typically given the name "Mueller."

The tune "Cradle Song" was written by William J. Kirkpatrick for the musical Around the World with Christmas (1895). Kirkpatrick, like others before him, attributed the words to Luther.

It is also sung to an adaptation of the melody originally composed in 1837 by Jonathan E. Spilman to Flow gently, sweet Afton.

Thus, there are two different melodies for "Away In A Manger". Each setting has a harmony version for S, A, T, B.

Also, the two tunes actually fit together quite well. An arrangement by Christopher Erskine combining both settings (harmony), first heard in 1996 in Canberra at the annual pair of joint Carol Services in Manuka, performed by the choirs of St Paul's Church (Anglican) and St Christopher's Cathedral (Roman Catholic). In this version the Kirkpatrick setting is sung by one choir, and the Murray setting by the other choir, alternating through the first two verses. Both settings are sung together for the third verse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Away_In_a_Manger


I've known things the other way around -- tunes used for Christmas Carols and for non-carol songs -- What Child is This is clearly Greesleeves, and Oh, Christmas Tree is the Civil War song Maryland, My Maryland, but I didn't realize it worked the other way around.


Are there any more of these multiple-tuned carols?

Last edited by CalMeacham; 12-15-2010 at 09:52 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:58 AM
Folacin Folacin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
I've sung "I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day" to two different melodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Heard...s_Day#Versions

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:05 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Apparently the melody of Silent Night, while the same, was in a more upbeat tempo.



And this is a surprise:

Quote:
The earliest well-known version of the music of the song was recorded by English scholar James O. Halliwell in 1842, and he published a version in 4th edition The Nursery Rhymes of England (1846), collected principally from 'oral tradition'.[4] In the early 20th century, English composer Frederic Austin wrote an arrangement in which he added his melody from "Five gold rings" onwards,[5] which has since become standard. The copyright to this arrangement was registered in 1909 and is still active by its owners, Novello & Co. Limited.[6][7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twe...mas_%28song%29



So the Standard melody for The Twelve Days of Christmas, like "Happy Birthday", is still under copyright!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:12 AM
Candyman74 Candyman74 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I wasn't aware there was a different tune in the US. I only know one, and I know it as the tune of Little Town of Bethlehem (maybe it's cribbed form another song, but if so I don't know the other one, either).

No idea if it's the same as the tune you sing in the US. I've not seen (noticed) the song being sung in a US show or movie, so I've nothing to compare it to. And I've no idea how to describe it on a messageboard!

AH - this is the song as I know it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36mnzBJgbEw
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:19 AM
fachverwirrt fachverwirrt is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
I think it's well known among church musicians that there are different settings. It's pretty common to ask "Forest Green or St. Louis?" when the director announces that you're singing "O Little Town of Bethlehem" (the different settings for "It Came Upon a Midnight Clear" are, I think, less well known).

I sing in a professional a capella choir that tends to do thematic concerts (and seasons). Two years ago we did an "Old World Christmas" which included all the British settings. Last year it was a "New World Christmas" where we sang the American settings.

An amusing anecdote that our (British) director told our (American) choir: he grew up, of course, with the British settings. Upon coming to America, he found out that there are American versions of the two hymns. "Typical Americans," he thought, "taking a perfectly good hymn and re-writing it." Then he found out that the American versions were written first. Oops.

Candyman74, here is the American melody, sung (ironically) by the King's Singers (with the typical British pronunciation of "Bethlehem").

Last edited by fachverwirrt; 12-15-2010 at 10:23 AM.. Reason: Added link
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:46 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
I've never heard a different tune for "O Little Town of Bethlehem." But, at some point in my youth, my church got new hymnals, and the melody they had for "Away In a Manger" was not the old familiar one (with all descending notes in the first line), but a different one. At first I was scandalized—that's not the right tune!—but eventually I came to prefer this alternative tune, and to find the familiar one musically insipid. By which time the church had apparently decided that people wanted to sing the familiar tune, so they always went with that one.
That's exactly what happened with my parents' church, too! Only now when I go for my annual Christmas Eve Contractual Agreement it's a toss-up which one we get.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:49 AM
Skammer Skammer is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 12,728
Episcopalian here - I'm familiar with three tunes for "O Little Town" and at my church we do indeed sing the common English tune. I think both tunes are in the ECUSA 1983 Hymnal, but I'm not positive.

I grew up mainly Baptist and it took some adjustment when I turned Episcoplian because quite a few hymns use different tunes, but I've gotten used to the Anglican way now.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:02 AM
Misnomer Misnomer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 6,842
I'm an American who lived in England for two years as a kid (think 7th and 8th grades), and there were definitely different melodies for "O Little Town of Bethlehem" and "Away In A Manger." I prefer the British ones to this day. In fact, just last weekend I went to a service of lessons and carols with my dad and we were both happy to see that "O Little Town of Bethlehem" was going to use the Forest Green melody.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:19 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Hark1 The Herald Angels Sing

Quote:
In 1855, English musician William H. Cummings adapted Felix Mendelssohn's secular music from Festgesang to fit the lyrics of “Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" written by Charles Wesley.[2] Wesley envisioned the song being sung to the same tune as his song Christ the Lord Is Risen Today[3], and in some hymnals, is included along with the more popular version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hark!_T...ld_Angels_Sing
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:21 AM
Sam A. Robrin Sam A. Robrin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
The melodies to all of the following songs are interchangeable:

Mickey Mouse Club Theme Song
Stairway to Heaven
House of the Rising Sun
Yankee Doodle
Pop Goes the Weasel
Peaceful Easy Feeling
I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing
Yellow Rose of Texas
Ghost Riders of the Sky
Rocky Top
Lion Sleeps Tonight
Tangled Up in Blue
Whiter Shade of Pale
Light My Fire
O Little Town of Bethlehem
Jingle Bells
God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen
Greensleeves
Jolly Old St. Nicholas
The First Noel
O Tannenbaum
It Came Upon a Midnight Clear
I'll Be Home for Christmas
Take Me Out to the Ball Game
In-a-Gadda-da-Vida
Marines' Hymn
Wabash Cannonball
America the Beautiful
The Internationale
Onward Christian Soldiers
Ode to Joy
Mack the Knife
A Hundred Bottles of Beer
Clementine
La Cucaracha
Semper Paratus
The Wearing of the Green
(The Rising of the Moon)
The Itsy-Bitsy Spider
I've Been Working on the Railroad
Sympathy for the Devil
Rollin' Down to Old Maui
Acres of Clams
Bread and Roses
Sink the Bismarck

Poems that apply:

Jabberwocky

Little Miss Muffet
Jack and Jill
Doctor Foster went to Gloucester
Little Jack Horner
Itsy Bitsy Spider
Mary Mary Quite Contrary

Anything by Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:26 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Quote:
The melodies to all of the following songs are interchangeable:
That's interesting, but not relevant to this thread. There have been plenty of threads in the past about which song lyrics could be sung to different tunes. This one is about Christmas Carols that are, as a regular practice, sung to completely different tunes among a large group of carolers.


That I can sing O Little Town of Bethlehem to the Mickey Mouse Club theme is good for a laugh or a stunt, but it isn't at all comparable to the fact that folks in the UK and various Episcopalian churches in the US sing that carol to a completely different tune than the one I know.



a more reasonable addition would be to tell us if the same practice occurs in other English-speaking areas (Australia/ South Africa? New Zealand?) Or if this occurs in other languages.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:33 AM
SanVito SanVito is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Brit here, and after a bit of YouTubing I realise I've never heard the US version at all.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:35 AM
Misnomer Misnomer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 6,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalMeacham View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam A. Robrin View Post
The melodies to all of the following songs are interchangeable:
That's interesting, but not relevant to this thread.
It's also not quite accurate: the meters may be interchangeable, but the melodies are not.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-15-2010, 12:58 PM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
I find that keeping the music the same, but changing the words (as in my post at 10:52) is called a Contrafactum. Song parodies by Mad magazine , Weird Al Yankovic, and the Capitol Steps are all contrafacta. As are Maryland, my Maryland and What Child is This.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrafactum

I haven't found a word for keeping the lyrics the same but changing the music, though. Maybe there isn't one.

Last edited by CalMeacham; 12-15-2010 at 12:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:08 PM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Angels from the Realms of Glory. Not extremely popular any more, but one I know, at least in the US version:

Quote:
"Angels from the Realms of Glory" is a Christmas carol written by English poet James Montgomery.[1] It was first printed in the Sheffield Iris on Christmas Eve 1816, though it only began to be sung in churches after its 1825 reprinting in the Montgomery collection The Christian Psalmist and in the Religious Tract Society's The Christmas Box or New Year's Gift.[1]

Before 1928, the hymn was sung to a variety of tunes, including "Regent Square", "Lewes" by John Randall, and "Wildersmouth" or "Feniton Court" by Edward Hopkins.[1] In the United States, the hymn is today most commonly sung to the tune of "Regent Square" by Henry Smart.[1] In the United Kingdom, however, the hymn came to be sung to the French carol tune "Iris"[2] (Les anges dans nos campagnes, the tune used for "Angels We Have Heard on High") after this setting was published in the Oxford Book of Carols[1], except that the "Gloria in excelsis Deo" refrain is sung in place of Montgomery's original "Come and worship Christ the new-born King' refrain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_...ealms_of_Glory

While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks seems to have the most different musical versions of any "traditional" carol:

Quote:
It was set to music in 1812 in Harmonia Sacra. David Weyman's adaptation of "Christmas", taken from an aria in the 1728 opera Siroe by George Frideric Handel was arranged by Lowell Mason in 1821, and it is now this version which is most commonly used in the USA. In the United Kingdom and Canada the standard is the alternative arrangement using the music "Winchester Old", originally from Este's psalter, the Whole Book of Psalmes, from 1592 but arranged by William Henry Monk sometime before 1874. It has been set to numerous other tunes, most commonly "Martyrdom", written by Hugh Wilson in 1800 but with an arrangement by Ralph E. Hudson from around 1885, and "Shackelford" by Frederick Henry Cheeswright from 1889. Parish organist at All Saints church, Oldham, Lancs., Robert Jackson, wrote a tune to "While Shepherds watched their flocks by night" in 1903 for the Westwood Moravian Church there. Called "Jackson's Tune" it remains popular there. In Cornwall, England the carol is popularly sung to "Lyngham", a tune usually associated with "O For A Thousand Tongues To Sing!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/While_S...d_Their_Flocks

Last edited by CalMeacham; 12-15-2010 at 01:10 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:12 PM
fachverwirrt fachverwirrt is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalMeacham View Post
As are Maryland, my Maryland and What Child is This.
I think you mean "O Tannenbaum".
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:15 PM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Quote:
I think you mean "O Tannenbaum".
I know what I'm saying.

O Tannebaum, Oh, Christmas Tree, and Maryland my Maryland are all the same music. I listed the later lyrics applied to the song in each case -- Maryland my Maryland post-dates O Tannenbaum and What Child is This postdates Greensleeves.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:20 PM
fachverwirrt fachverwirrt is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalMeacham View Post
I know what I'm saying.

O Tannebaum, Oh, Christmas Tree, and Maryland my Maryland are all the same music. I listed the later lyrics applied to the song in each case -- Maryland my Maryland post-dates O Tannenbaum and What Child is This postdates Greensleeves.
Ah. I misread you. I thought you were saying that Maryland, My Maryland and What Child is This were contrafacta of each other.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:47 PM
amarinth amarinth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Emerald City, WA, USA
Posts: 8,444
It could be just that I'm far more familiar with them - but I like the American versions better. To me, the US "Away in a Manger" sounds more like a lullaby than the UK one (which is how I think of that song) and the US "O Little Town" feels more contemplative than the UK one. The feeling of the music goes better with the words.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-15-2010, 04:24 PM
Malacandra Malacandra is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Yep, each to his own. I know and like "Carol", but you will have to prise "Noel" from my cold dead hands. Also I was born and bred to "Forest Green" and consider it far more singable than that American... thing. But Walford Davies's arrangement is lovely if you have a choir to perform it (and a tenor for the recitative).
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:26 PM
panamajack panamajack is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
I'm not sure if you'd consider it a "carol", but "Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus" has several common melodies.

This page (autoplaying MIDI warning) lists just some of them, and doesn't include Jefferson, the most common one in Lutheran Hymnals. Checking Youtube I was surprised that Hyfrydol seems to be the popular modern choice.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:49 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sturgeon Bay, WI USA
Posts: 17,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam A. Robrin View Post
The melodies to all of the following songs are interchangeable:

Mickey Mouse Club Theme Song
Stairway to Heaven
House of the Rising Sun
Yankee Doodle
Pop Goes the Weasel...
Do you even know what a melody is? These songs all have different melodies, and NONE are interchangeable.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:21 PM
Sam A. Robrin Sam A. Robrin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Scud View Post
I generally prefer the British tunes for O Little Town and Away in a Manger, but the American tune for It Came Upon a Midnight Clear blows the British one away.
I'm glad, albeit disappointed, that you cleared that up for me. I knew that "Midnight Clear" was written by Arthur Sullivan (of Gilbert & ...), but not that his version wasn't the one sung in the US. I'd always considered it by far one of his richest melodies. Now-- Well, always better to know the truth.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:28 PM
Sam A. Robrin Sam A. Robrin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat View Post
Do you even know what a melody is? These songs all have different melodies, and NONE are interchangeable.
I don't understand your point. The lyrics of any of those songs can be sung to the melodies of all the others (admitted, sometimes with a bit of necessary tucking...). Therefore the melodies are interchangeable. What am I missing?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-16-2010, 01:03 AM
njtt njtt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalMeacham View Post
I know what I'm saying.

O Tannebaum, Oh, Christmas Tree, and Maryland my Maryland are all the same music. I listed the later lyrics applied to the song in each case -- Maryland my Maryland post-dates O Tannenbaum and What Child is This postdates Greensleeves.
The tune to which Americans sing O Tannebaum is better known in Britain as the socialist anthem, The Red Flag, traditionally sung at the end of the annual Labour Party conference. (Although it bears very little relation to what the Labour Party actually stands for these days.)

Personally, I cannot hear O Tannebaum without thinking of cowards flinching, traitors sneering, and "our martyr'd dead."
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:01 AM
Aspidistra Aspidistra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalMeacham View Post
Angels from the Realms of Glory. Not extremely popular any more, but one I know, at least in the US version:
The wikipedia article on that is not precisely accurate, I think, because the tune for Angels from the Realms of Glory as generally sung in UK/Aus is just a touch different from Angels we have heard on high (in the former, the four lines are identical save for the last note - in the latter, the second and fourth lines have a different 3-note ending)

Angels we have heard on high was never heard over here until the last five years or so, btw (we always sang "Realms" instead) and I find it almost unbearably excruciating in an uncanny valley so-close-but-just-not-right kind of way. The fact that it's usually pop stars putting up souped up versions of it that you hear, rather than proper choirs, doesn't help.

I have also hear the other tune for "Realms" sung, but not often.

In Aus, I hear both tunes to "O Little Town" in nearly equal proportions. I prefer "Forest Green" myself, but the other tune has a lovely descant in the last verse. Heard the US "Away in a manger" occasionally, but the UK one is more popular.

I have also heard "Love Divine" sung to a wide variety of tunes, only one of which (Hyfrydol) I can find in my hymn book. Interestingly, the tune there actually labelled "Love Divine" is one I've never heard at all.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:37 AM
gwendee gwendee is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Charm City
Posts: 3,467
For several years I've attended a Christmas Eve service at an Episcopal church in NY. In order to make as many people happy as possible we sing 2 verses to Forest Green and 2 verses to St. Louis.

Until then I had only been familiar with the St. Louis tune. Forest Green is in my church's hymnal with entirely different words.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:29 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 29,009
The Brits do something unholy to the "fa-la-las" in Deck The Halls.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:03 AM
Olentzero Olentzero is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by njtt View Post
The tune to which Americans sing O Tannebaum is better known in Britain as the socialist anthem, The Red Flag, traditionally sung at the end of the annual Labour Party conference.
Which, to continue in the spirit of the thread, was originally written to the tune of "The White Cockade". Billy Bragg sings it here.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.