Yaaarghh! It's pronounced SUB-SID-I-ARY, goddammit!!

[Klaatu]

You people obviously aint pacifically orientated to the way words are pernounced these days.
This is an incenerary topic. A mod should put the breaks on it.

[Boyo Jim]

What is up with aluminum and a-lu-min-i-um?

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by Klaatu

You people obviously aint pacifically orientated to the way words are pernounced these days.
This is an incenerary topic. A mod should put the breaks on it.

Dam it! Insiniary!

[california jobcase]

It's aluminum in North America- aluminium everywhere else. Sorta like colour and color, armor and armour, sulfur and sulphur, blah blah blah.

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally Posted by Klaatu

You people obviously aint pacifically orientated to the way words are pernounced these days.
This is an incenerary topic. A mod should put the breaks on it.

Maybe we all need some kind of perscription.

[Boyo Jim]

Those other examples have the same pronunciation. Or do they?

Escuse me, I meant pronounciation.

My story -- and I'm going to stick to it -- is that everywhere else is wrong.

[california jobcase]

Nobody's mentioned warshing and rinching yet.

[Klaatu]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

Maybe we all need some kind of perscription.

This I agree with. Perhaps a gerneric? It would be cheaper.

[fachverwirrt]

Originally Posted by california jobcase

Nobody's mentioned warshing and rinching yet.

My wife's grandfather used to warsh his hands in the zink. After using the tarlet.

[needscoffee]

I was assaulted again today with "heighth".

I've heard "larnyx" too many times as well.

[Wheelz]

Originally Posted by california jobcase

Don't get me started on the Food Network and plantains.

Until I looked it up just now, I had no idea of the so-called "correct" pronunciation (PLAN-tin). I don't recall ever once hearing or saying it any other way than plan-TAIN.

How long before the way everybody says it all the time becomes the right way?

[california jobcase]

I never saw a plantain until '84 or so. I grew up in east central Indiana and learned the word in elementary school. We used dictionaries daily back then.

[kbear]

My pilates instructor is always giving me exercises to help with my obelisk muscles. If you know him it's kind of cute but I'd like to think I could expect better from someone who is supposed to have studied anatomy.

[gonzomax]

I worked for a Japanese company and used polypropylene as often as possible, just to hear them pronounce it.

[kambuckta]

Originally Posted by Napkin Sandwich

....and during labor the cervix can either dialate or even sometimes dilatate. (I heard both of those from different medical professionals).

(My bolding)

Dilatate and dilatation are in fact legitimate words, particularly when applied to the birthing process.

[Harborwolf]

Try working in food: balsalmic, eye-talian, chipoltee, chili con kwiso/kwayso. I got into an argument with a coworker over how gnocchi is pronounced. I might not have it right, but I'm pretty sure it's not pronounced guh-nich-chee.

And Mulligatawny? Forget about it. They give up. "Mulliga.....mully....moo....what's that one?"

Unrelated to food, my boss says jag-wire instead of jaguar. Drives me up the wall.

[jasonh300]

I sell printing supplies and frequently get callers asking for ink and toner cartlidges.






(I still want to know what's wrong with "expedite").

[CanvasShoes]

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99

Reminds me of the chemistry instructor I had back in Naval Nuke Power school back in '81. Kept talking about Cesmium.

What did he mean to say? Sorry, I'm under the influence of a migraine, and the answer just isn't coming to me.

[Napkin Sandwich]

Originally Posted by kambuckta

(My bolding)

Dilatate and dilatation are in fact legitimate words, particularly when applied to the birthing process.

Really? I concede that, but I'm holding onto my hatred of dialate.

And when people dry reach. I hate dry reaching, but it's not as uncomfortable as retching.

[Nava]

Originally Posted by CanvasShoes

What did he mean to say? Sorry, I'm under the influence of a migraine, and the answer just isn't coming to me.

Cesium.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by BigT

Could it possible come from the British practice of separating vowels with Rs? For example, "I have no idea about that" becomes "I have nor idear about that, instead of the more American "I have no widea 'bout that."

I've never heard anyone insert the graped R - AFAIK it usually only arises between similar vowel sounds ('idea' ends with the same vowel sound that 'about' starts with)

[Wheelz]

Originally Posted by Harborwolf

Unrelated to food, my boss says jag-wire instead of jaguar. Drives me up the wall.

They ran a series of car commercials a while back in which the announcer pronounced it Jag-you-are.
I guess they don't wan't anybody driving a Jaguar who would be vulgar enough to say Jag-wahr like 98.4% of normal people.

[CanvasShoes]

Originally Posted by Nava

Cesium.

Well no wonder, that's not one that's familiar to me. I was trying to figure out which one of the ones I deal with on a daily basis it could possibly be. Turns out. NONE Of them.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

I've never heard anyone insert the graped R - AFAIK it usually only arises between similar vowel sounds ('idea' ends with the same vowel sound that 'about' starts with)

Come to think of it, I think I've only heard it from someone doing a lousy accent.

[GrizzRich]

My father-in-law pronounces "Wii" as "wee two"

[Fake Tales of San Francisco]

Originally Posted by BigT

Could it possible come from the British practice of separating vowels with Rs? For example, "I have no idea about that" becomes "I have nor idear about that, instead of the more American "I have no widea 'bout that."

Actually, I think most people would add an /w/ between 'no' and 'idea' unless they were pronouncing each word very carefully. It's pretty difficult to stop making a sound when your lips end up rounded after the /əʊ/ in 'no'. Say 'no idea' quickly several times in a row and concentrate on the hiatus.

Similarly, if you're going to pronounce the /æ/ or /ə/ in 'about', it's difficult to avoid adding an /r/ in between 'idea' and 'about' when you're talking in natural conversation. At the end of the day, they're just sounds that make it easier to get from one place to another. You might be blessed with a dexterous tongue, vocal cords etc, but I think most of us find connected speech easier and more effective when eliding, linking sounds etc.

Not a fan of most the descriptivist posts in this thread to be honest (Big T's isn't one of them). Just learn to lighten up. Language is a tool, and its primary concern is communication. If an idea or concept is being effectively communicated then there's no point giving a damn about the exact pattern of sounds used to communicate it. If pronunciation causes confusion, then it's a problem of course, and some posts describe that.

But seriously. You were thinking of packing up and going home just because of that? Relax a little, it's just words. Now, if they had an annoying voice I might understand...

[Fake Tales of San Francisco]

Of course, I meant prescriptivist. Shoot me now.

[RadicalPi]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

They ran a series of car commercials a while back in which the announcer pronounced it Jag-you-are.

That's just the British pronunciation. If I'm not mistaken, the person doing the voice over was British. Nicaragua is pronounced the same way, which I find highly amusing.

[elfkin477]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

They ran a series of car commercials a while back in which the announcer pronounced it Jag-you-are.
I guess they don't wan't anybody driving a Jaguar who would be vulgar enough to say Jag-wahr like 98.4% of normal people.

But a lot of people don't pronounce the r, either. Jag-wah. Of course, a lot of these same people would say it like this: "Look over theyah! It's a jagwah!" too

Is it really sub-sid-I-ary? I've mostly heard sub-sid-E-ary.

[needscoffee]

How about Renwah, the artist? You know, the one the rest of us call Renoir? Is that a British pronunciation? I could understand that, but not when Americans pronounce it that way.

[StarvingButStrong]

Originally Posted by needscoffee

How about Renwah, the artist? You know, the one the rest of us call Renoir? Is that a British pronunciation? I could understand that, but not when Americans pronounce it that way.

Yeah, but some Boston dialects are half-way to Brit.

[needscoffee]

Originally Posted by StarvingButStrong

Yeah, but some Boston dialects are half-way to Brit.

Okay, they get a pass, too.

[John Mace]

A local news broadcaster recently pronounced "peripheral" as "periphrial". I was doing some work at the time with the news on in the background, so I had to rewind my DVR before I could actually believe my own ears. Periphrial. It was a word that was pretty central to the story, too. (Hah, it wasn't "periphrial" to the story.)

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by needscoffee

How about Renwah, the artist? You know, the one the rest of us call Renoir? Is that a British pronunciation? I could understand that, but not when Americans pronounce it that way.

It's French, and that's pretty close to the French pronunciation. It has nothing to do with Americans or Brits dropping their Rs.

[needscoffee]

Originally Posted by John Mace

It's French, and that's pretty close to the French pronunciation.

Not close enough for my ear.

[fachverwirrt]

Originally Posted by John Mace

It's French, and that's pretty close to the French pronunciation.

No, it's not.

[John Mace]

Sure it is. And it's a lot closer than if the "r" was actually pronounced. Americans who are dropping the "r" are trying, within the American English sound system, to pronounce it as the French do. Of course it's not the same as the way the French pronounce it, since we have an accent when we speak French.

[fachverwirrt]

The "r" is pronounced in French.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by fachverwirrt

The "r" is pronounced in French.

With a sound that doesn't exist in English. The back R is often elided when we say French words. Have you never an Anglophone say au revoir as if it were spelled ovois (oh-vwah in English)? Or, even more common, bonjour as if it were spelled bonjous ("bong zhoo" is the best I can do without IPA [bõʒu]).

Yes, I'm aware some French people use a rolled or flipped R, but it seems less common, at least in French as presented in America. While overly pronounced in stereotypical French, it is quite light in the less stereotypical variety. It makes sense for it to be completely elided by people who do not know how to make the sound.

[fachverwirrt]

Originally Posted by BigT

With a sound that doesn't exist in English. The back R is often elided when we say French words. Have you never an Anglophone say au revoir as if it were spelled ovois (oh-vwah in English)? Or, even more common, bonjour as if it were spelled bonjous ("bong zhoo" is the best I can do without IPA [bõʒu]).

Yes, I'm aware some French people use a rolled or flipped R, but it seems less common, at least in French as presented in America. While overly pronounced in stereotypical French, it is quite light in the less stereotypical variety. It makes sense for it to be completely elided by people who do not know how to make the sound.

All understood. None of which makes [ɹɛn-wa] "close" to the French pronunciation, at least as compared to [ɹɛn-waɹ]. The use of an allophone is objectively "closer" in pronunciation that the complete elision of the sound.

And no, I don't generally hear [ovwa] or [bõʒu]. It's generally [oɹvwa] and [bonʤuɹ] (you seriously hear people correctly pronounce the nasal?). This is not a criticism of Anglophone's abilities at French, by the way; just noting that the general inability of Americans to properly pronounce French doesn't make dropping the final "r" from "Renoir" close to the French pronunciation.

And you can use IPA. It's OK.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by fachverwirrt

The "r" is pronounced in French.

But not like it is in English. When we here French pronounce a word that ends in "r", it sounds like it's not there. There isn't a sound in English that corresponds to the French "r". The closest thing we can do at the end of a word is to not pronounce it at all.

[Onomatopoeia]

Originally Posted by sh1bu1

That's going a long way for a joke.

I see what you did there.

[fachverwirrt]

Originally Posted by John Mace

But not like it is in English. When we here French pronounce a word that ends in "r", it sounds like it's not there. There isn't a sound in English that corresponds to the French "r". The closest thing we can do at the end of a word is to not pronounce it at all.

I answered this in some detail in my previous post. I disagree with the basic premise (that dropping the "r" is closer than substituting the American "r"), but my core argument is that the general inability for Americans to distinguish French phonemes doesn't make one mispronunciation somehow more precise than another one.

[Onomatopoeia]

Originally Posted by needscoffee

Somebody assaulted me with "simular" tonight.

Yep, I hear simular all the time, and subsiderary, and detereeate. Drives me up a wall. I've just about given up any expectation of the average American pronouncing even the simplest words correctly. I mean, there are people who believe the words baht and bought are pronounced, and sound, exactly the same, for goodness sake. What hope have we for parenteral, exigency, or malleability?

[amanset]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

They ran a series of car commercials a while back in which the announcer pronounced it Jag-you-are.
I guess they don't wan't anybody driving a Jaguar who would be vulgar enough to say Jag-wahr like 98.4% of normal people.

Speaking as someone that comes from a wee town just outside Coventry and had a school bus that used to go past the Jaguar headquarters, this leaves me with a weird sense of local pride.

Anyway, when at University, UNIVERSITY, I had an Algebra Professor that taught me Galois Theory yet couldn't pronounce the word "integer" right. Used to do my nut in.

[Manwich]

Originally Posted by Onomatopoeia

Yep, I hear simular all the time, and subsiderary, and detereeate. Drives me up a wall. I've just about given up any expectation of the average American pronouncing even the simplest words correctly. I mean, there are people who believe the words baht and bought are pronounced, and sound, exactly the same, for goodness sake. What hope have we for parenteral, exigency, or malleability?

Spare a thought for people like me. I hear people make complaints like yours, and then go on to "mispronounce" words like every native speaker does (and you probably do). I just have to hold my tongue - there is no way to convince people that they speak the way the do without recording them.

[Onomatopoeia]

Originally Posted by Manwich

Spare a thought for people like me. I hear people make complaints like yours, and then go on to "mispronounce" words like every native speaker does (and you probably do). I just have to hold my tongue - there is no way to convince people that they speak the way the do without recording them.

I don't believe every native English speaker mispronounces English words. As a student of languages, I like to count myself among those who are very aware of how words are pronounced and strive to approximate this awareness in my speech as closely as possible, although I'm sure I take a misstep every now and then when conversing in Spanish, French, or Japanese. However, if I come across a word I am not sure how to pronounce, I don't use it in conversation until I am. So if I simply can't pronounce, say, deteriorate, I'd use another word in its place, e.g., degrade, lessen, etc... I wouldn't continue to say detereeate, especially after being corrected.

[elmwood]

Originally Posted by elfkin477

But a lot of people don't pronounce the r, either. Jag-wah. Of course, a lot of these same people would say it like this: "Look over theyah! It's a jagwah!" too

I've been hearing Jaguar stretched out into four syllables lately; Jag-OO-wuy-urr.

Also what seems like a recent trend: place names in the Middle East being pronounced with a long British a rather than the shorter American a. For example:

* Ih-rahhk instead of Ih-rak
* Pahhk-ih-stahhn (and, in a few cases, Pahhk-ih-schtahhn) instead of Pak-ih-stan
* Ahhf-ghahhn-uh-stahhn instead of Af-gan-ih-stan

[Robb]

Nuclear.

[needscoffee]

Originally Posted by elmwood

I've been hearing Jaguar stretched out into four syllables lately; Jag-OO-wuy-urr.

Also what seems like a recent trend: place names in the Middle East being pronounced with a long British a rather than the shorter American a. For example:

* Ih-rahhk instead of Ih-rak

I believe Ih-rahk is the correct pronunciation. We've just been subjected to George W. Bush's incorrect pronunciation for too long.