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  #1  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:42 AM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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Left turn on a red arrow

I recently had the following traffic situation come up and was wondering whether it was legal to make a left turn. If it matters I was driving in Maryland.


I was on a moderately busy city street that had a left turn lane which included an arrow stoplight, as well as a standard stop light for the through lanes. As I came to the intersection the left turn arrow turned from green to red. The light for through traffic on my side of the street remained green. There was no oncoming traffic, and I had clear visibility for at least 100 yards.

Here are my thoughts

1) Of course you can't turn. There is a friggin red arrow telling you not to.

2) The purpose of the arrow is to show when the oncoming traffic has been stopped. The Red arrow merely indicates that the oncoming traffic has not been stopped, but since my side of the road has a green light and there is no oncoming traffic I can turn left just as I would if I was at an intersection with only a standard stop light.

3) Hi Opal.

Anyone know the law on this?

Last edited by Buck Godot; 01-20-2011 at 10:44 AM..
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:45 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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At least in Illinois, you can't turn left when you're facing a red arrow. But you can turn right.

"Red arrow – The red arrow means do not make the movement shown by the arrow until a green arrow appears. You may make a right turn at a red arrow. You also may make a left turn at a red arrow when turning from a one-way street onto another one-way street that has traffic moving to the left. In both instances, drivers must come to a complete stop and yield the right-of-way to oncoming traffic and pedestrians before proceeding."
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:54 AM
postcards postcards is offline
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Arrow or ball, it's a steady red signal. You don't go through a steady red signal; if it's flashing on and off, you treat it as a stop sign (come to a full stop, then proceed when the lanes are clear.)
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:54 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postcards View Post
You don't go through a steady red signal
not in all cases.
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:56 AM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Name a case where you can. I can't think of any, except maybe for a right turn on red.

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 01-20-2011 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:57 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
Name a case where you can.
um, I just did.

In illinois, you can turn right on a red arrow once you've made a full stop.
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:57 AM
elfkin477 elfkin477 is offline
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You can't make a left turn on a red arrow in Maryland.
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:58 AM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
um, I just did.

In illinois, you can turn right on a red arrow once you've made a full stop.
But this is a case where you would be in a left turn lane.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:59 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
But this is a case where you would be in a left turn lane.
that's not what I was responding to.

but, if you want another example, it's also in my first post.

Last edited by Rumor_Watkins; 01-20-2011 at 11:00 AM..
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  #10  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:00 AM
Giles Giles is offline
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Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
not in all cases.
Apart from turn right on red, what cases? If you're stopped at a red light, you have a clear view in both direction of the cross street, and you can see that there's no traffic in the cross street, you are not permitted to proceed straight ahead, even though it would be safe to do so. The same logic applies to a left-pointing red light: it's illegal to turn left, even though it would be safe.
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  #11  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:01 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Giles View Post
Apart from turn right on red, what cases? If you're stopped at a red light, you have a clear view in both direction of the cross street, and you can see that there's no traffic in the cross street, you are not permitted to proceed straight ahead, even though it would be safe to do so. The same logic applies to a left-pointing red light: it's illegal to turn left, even though it would be safe.
not in all cases.
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:04 AM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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I guess if you're talking about a situation where there is only one lane, then you could turn right on a red left turn arrow, or on a red light period, but that doesn't really answer the OP's question.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:06 AM
Man With a Cat Man With a Cat is offline
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I had to read Rumor's post more clearly to get it. If you're on a ONE WAY street, meeting a ONE WAY street where traffic is moving from your right to your left. You'd be in the far left lane, and the same rule as 'right turn on red' would apply.

Happens all the time in downtown areas (like Chicago) where there are a lot of one way streets. Except that there aren't many left turn arrows there, but if there were, I think in those cases it would be fine, after making a complete stop and making sure you were clear to do so.

If you have to cross any traffic at all from a dedicated left turn lane that has a red arrow, then no. The arrow being red specifically directs you NOT to turn.

Last edited by Man With a Cat; 01-20-2011 at 11:06 AM..
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:06 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
I guess if you're talking about a situation where there is only one lane, then you could turn right on a red left turn arrow, or on a red light period, but that doesn't really answer the OP's question.

dude. stop digging. you failed in your gotcha. hell, your edit even makes that abundantly clear that you were trying for the gotcha instead of trying to answer the OP.

the OP's question has been answered, anyways. I missed the Maryland bit - someone else went and dug up their (identical) rule.
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  #15  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:09 AM
Giles Giles is offline
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Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
not in all cases.
Give an example.

(Apart from you driving an emergency vehicle with siren going & lights flashing, or there being a police officer standing in the middle of the intersection waving you through, or other situations where the normal rules don't apply.)
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:09 AM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Bus Guy View Post
I had to read Rumor's post more clearly to get it. If you're on a ONE WAY street, meeting a ONE WAY street where traffic is moving from your right to your left. You'd be in the far left lane, and the same rule as 'right turn on red' would apply.
But those are cases where you wouldn't need a protected left turn in first place, so why would there be an arrow at all?
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:12 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
But those are cases where you wouldn't need a protected left turn in first place, so why would there be an arrow at all?
it's done at intersections where there is likely to be unexpected pedestrian traffic, or in the case of a red right arrow, where there could be an advanced green left (from the opposite side) of multiple lanes.

it's basically done to make sure you stop and look around, as opposed to the oft-careless right turns on solid red.
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:14 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Giles View Post
Give an example.

(Apart from you driving an emergency vehicle with siren going & lights flashing, or there being a police officer standing in the middle of the intersection waving you through, or other situations where the normal rules don't apply.)
I wasnt taking issue with the example you used as analogy (not going straight through a red light) - I was taking issue with the inference drawn from that analogy.
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  #19  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:14 AM
Man With a Cat Man With a Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
it's done at intersections where there is likely to be unexpected pedestrian traffic, or in the case of a red right arrow, where there could be an advanced green left (from the opposite side) of multiple lanes.

it's basically done to make sure you stop and look around, as opposed to the oft-careless right turns on solid red.
Right. That.
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:17 AM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
it's done at intersections where there is likely to be unexpected pedestrian traffic, or in the case of a red right arrow, where there could be an advanced green left (from the opposite side) of multiple lanes.

it's basically done to make sure you stop and look around, as opposed to the oft-careless right turns on solid red.
Ok. Makes sense.
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  #21  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:27 AM
Duckster Duckster is offline
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Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
not in all cases.
In no cases. A steady red means you must come to a full stop before proceeding, if the law allows that. A right turn on red requires a full stop, check for ability to turn safely, then turn. You cannot drive through the red. Yes people regularly keep moving while performing a right on red, and to do so is illegal.

You can perform a left turn on red only if you are turning from a one way to a one way and you are in the proper lane that allows for a left on red. You cannot make a left on red if the road you are currently traveling is two way (there is oncoming traffic lanes), even if the road you wish to turn into is a one way, unless specifically permitted by local law.
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  #22  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:40 AM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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In no cases. A steady red means you must come to a full stop before proceeding, if the law allows that. A right turn on red requires a full stop, check for ability to turn safely, then turn. You cannot drive through the red. Yes people regularly keep moving while performing a right on red, and to do so is illegal.

You can perform a left turn on red only if you are turning from a one way to a one way and you are in the proper lane that allows for a left on red. You cannot make a left on red if the road you are currently traveling is two way (there is oncoming traffic lanes), even if the road you wish to turn into is a one way, unless specifically permitted by local law.

yes, thank you for re-hashing this entire thread.

no one was talking about blowing through a red.
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  #23  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:55 AM
Iggins Iggins is offline
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In Beaverton, Oregon, most of the left hand turn reds have been turned into blinking yellow left hand turn arrows, which alleviates this problem, for the most part. There is the issue of someone trying to take a yellow left while the someone in the oncoming lane is making a right turn onto the same road. I've seen lots of the left hand turners nearly cut off the other driver.
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  #24  
Old 01-20-2011, 12:06 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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Thanks for the responses

I guess I owe my wife some Mea culpas.
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  #25  
Old 01-20-2011, 12:24 PM
cochrane cochrane is offline
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Just about all of the intersections with left turn arrows where I drive also have signs at the intersection that read "Left turn on green arrow only." Not all intersections are like this though. Some allow left turns any time there is a green light, and also have a staggered red light system so cars may continue to turn left on the arrow while cross-traffic has a red light.

Last edited by cochrane; 01-20-2011 at 12:28 PM..
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  #26  
Old 01-20-2011, 01:44 PM
Balthisar Balthisar is offline
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Quite honestly, it was a lot less confusing before arrows were introduced, and for the life of me, I don't understand why that is. Arrows should be easier to understand.

One thing that drives me nuts with the new arrows is the protected right turn. These are used at intersections that would otherwise be "no right turn on red," except now they can append "except on green arrow" which helps clear the traffic a little bit faster during the perpendicular traffic's protected lefts, so that's not the part that drives me nuts. This is: the next step after a protected right is a normal green light, so everyone that's parallel to you in your direction of travel will get the green signal. Essentially, your protected right is unaffected. However, in every, single case that we have these new protected rights, the arrow works as such: it turns green, allowing you to advance. At this point, it turns yellow, and then red, and then the main light turns green and the arrow turns green again. What the hell is point of making the right turners stop in the first place? And it's not for pedestrians. Remember, the green arrow is a protected turn. Pedestrians are red at this point.
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  #27  
Old 01-20-2011, 01:51 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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Not disputing Rumor's cite, but why would you be able to turn on an arrow. To me a red arrow is specifically telling you not to turn whereas a red ball would be the stop and turn within the parameters of the law.
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  #28  
Old 01-20-2011, 02:10 PM
Any Other Name Any Other Name is offline
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One state's citation:

According to the New York State Drivers manual:

Quote:
RED ARROW: Do not go in the direction of the arrow until the red arrow light goes out and a green light or arrow light goes on. A right or left turn on red is not permitted at a red arrow.
Confirmed by the nice police officer who let me go with a warning.

Last edited by Any Other Name; 01-20-2011 at 02:10 PM..
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  #29  
Old 01-20-2011, 03:11 PM
Duckster Duckster is offline
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Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
no one was talking about blowing through a red.
You were.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:13 PM
Max Torque Max Torque is offline
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To muddy the mix some more:

In my town, a lot of "left turn signals" have appeared in the last few years. They're coupled with a sign that reads something like: "LEFT TURN SIGNAL - YIELD to oncoming traffic".

Basically, at these intersections, the other lights for the general traffic will at times turn solid-red, while the left turn signal stays solid green (not a green arrow). When that happens, traffic going straight must stop, but cars in the left turn lane may turn when oncoming traffic is clear. At that time, oncoming traffic will have a green light and a green left turn arrow. It seems to help clear the turning lanes quite a bit in between cycles.

I doubt that counts as "going through a steady red signal", since there's a special light that allows you to proceed when traffic is clear, but if you want to nitpick, there is technically a solid red signal at that intersection, and you do get to go; it's just that the red isn't for you.
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  #31  
Old 02-02-2011, 08:43 PM
Eriond's Revenge Eriond's Revenge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
3) Hi Opal.

Anyone know the law on this?
#3 =

AFAIK, Red Arrow = don't turn, unless you're already inside the intersection.
(Which according to my state's law, could equal 0.00001 micron beyond the crosswalk -- but good luck arguing that in traffic court!)

Last edited by Eriond's Revenge; 02-02-2011 at 08:44 PM..
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  #32  
Old 02-02-2011, 09:16 PM
Sparky812 Sparky812 is offline
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Originally Posted by Any Other Name View Post
One state's citation:

According to the New York State Drivers manual:



Confirmed by the nice police officer who let me go with a warning.

I heard NY was one of the last places you can't turn right on a red, the other being Montreal.
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  #33  
Old 02-02-2011, 09:27 PM
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You can make a U-turn on red (including red arrow) in Arizona as long as you don't break the curb line (it's our definition of "entering the intersection"). A lot of intersections here were clearly designed to allow this. I don't know where/how/why you could ever make a full-blown left turn on a red arrow, though. That doesn't make any sense to me. It wouldn't completely defeat the purpose of the arrow.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:53 PM
2gigch1 2gigch1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Eriond's Revenge View Post
#3 =
Read this which explains much about the inside workings of this board.

Last edited by 2gigch1; 02-02-2011 at 09:54 PM.. Reason: fixed quote
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  #35  
Old 02-03-2011, 01:38 AM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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In California you cannot turn either right or left against a red arrow. Cite. Which only makes sense - otherwise why bother to put in a red arrow. The only right red turn arrow I know of is at the intersection where David Halberstam was killed, which is fairly nasty.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:12 AM
VunderBob VunderBob is offline
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Originally Posted by elfkin477 View Post
You can't make a left turn on a red arrow in Maryland.
I know of at least one intersection on Maryland 235 in St. Mary's County where there is a sign saying a left turn on red is allowed when the red arrow is flashing.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:05 AM
GiantRat GiantRat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sparky812 View Post
I heard NY was one of the last places you can't turn right on a red, the other being Montreal.
[sigh] That's NYC, not New York State. NYC is a tiny little fragment of the geographical land mass of one of the country's largest states (although it does have about half the population of the whole state). NYC has its own set of laws that don't always correspond to state laws.

I'm from New York. Not New York City. All y'all south of the Mason-Dixon (where I currently am) should make a note that New York does not equal "City Slicker."
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:57 AM
Sparky812 Sparky812 is offline
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[sigh] That's NYC, not New York State. NYC is a tiny little fragment of the geographical land mass of one of the country's largest states (although it does have about half the population of the whole state). NYC has its own set of laws that don't always correspond to state laws.

I'm from New York. Not New York City. All y'all south of the Mason-Dixon (where I currently am) should make a note that New York does not equal "City Slicker."
You can lose the snark. I'm pretty sure we're all aware of the difference between New York State and New York City.
I guess, I should have worded my post more specifically as a question but you answered my query anyway, I was wondering whether NYC was still enforcing this rule.
It used to be a violation to turn right on a red light anywhere in the province Quebec but they changed that few years ago, the city of Montreal being the only holdout. This is a pain, especially when travelling from downtown to the suburbs and back as you need to be aware of where the city limits. ie. driving up to Laval, or going to Mirabel, etc.
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:20 PM
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You cannot turn left through a red arrow in any state I know of that uses red arrows.

For Maryland in particular, this is noted specifically on Page 77 (Page 40 in the PDF) of the Maryland Driver's Handbook (PDF).
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:17 PM
Hermitian Hermitian is offline
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Ok, so the obvious question is brought forth from this.

Why??

Why have a left turn red arrow? There are many left turns at intersections that do not have red arrows and people seem to know how to navigate them properly.

The left turn red arrow leads to situations like the OP's where you COULD turn and everythign would be fine, except you CAN'T because you are not allowed to.

What problem is this stupid arrow trying to solve?
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:58 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermitian View Post
Ok, so the obvious question is brought forth from this.

Why??

Why have a left turn red arrow? There are many left turns at intersections that do not have red arrows and people seem to know how to navigate them properly.

The left turn red arrow leads to situations like the OP's where you COULD turn and everythign would be fine, except you CAN'T because you are not allowed to.

What problem is this stupid arrow trying to solve?
In the Bay Area we have mostly left turn lanes, and they frequently have left turn arrows to allow both directions to turn left while the thru lanes in both directions are stopped. A green arrow means it is okay to turn, clearly the opposite of that is a red arrow. These turn only lanes don't have ball signals, since you don't want to imply that is okay to go straight in one. The intersection I mentioned has right arrows for right turn only lanes. These aren't nearly as common.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:13 PM
x-ray vision x-ray vision is offline
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You were.
What did Rumor_Watkins post that brought you to believe he was saying it's sometimes okay to blow through a red light?
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  #43  
Old 02-03-2011, 05:15 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
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Originally Posted by Hermitian View Post
What problem is this stupid arrow trying to solve?
The best I understand is that they want the arrow in the turning lane to emphasize that it is a turning lane, cannot proceed straight. Why the red has to be an arrow, too, is, I guess, to tell you it's turn only even while red so you can preclude getting in the wrong lane. Even though there are signs and paint that do that job.

In Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Texas, I do recall encountering a left red arrow. That would signal you are in a turn lane and must stop. If you are in a lane that has a protected turn time period, then an unprotected turn if traffic allows period, they have a green arrow, a yellow arrow, then a green ball, yellow ball, red ball.

Someone might assume the ball means it is no longer a turn only lane. Against the signs and paint on the lane designating otherwise.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:05 PM
Hermitian Hermitian is offline
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In the Bay Area we have mostly left turn lanes, and they frequently have left turn arrows to allow both directions to turn left while the thru lanes in both directions are stopped. A green arrow means it is okay to turn, clearly the opposite of that is a red arrow. These turn only lanes don't have ball signals, since you don't want to imply that is okay to go straight in one. The intersection I mentioned has right arrows for right turn only lanes. These aren't nearly as common.
I am familiar with left turn arrows and how they work, but a red left turn arrow is never needed. The left side of this diagram is how I see is the best way.

Red means stop (obviously), a green ball says you must yield to traffic to turn left (just like if you were at a 1 lane intersection), and a green arrow means you have a protected left. Apparently, the driving public is too stupid to get it, they think the green ball means protected left just because you are in a left turn lane.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:17 PM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Hermitian View Post
I am familiar with left turn arrows and how they work, but a red left turn arrow is never needed. The left side of this diagram is how I see is the best way.

Red means stop (obviously), a green ball says you must yield to traffic to turn left (just like if you were at a 1 lane intersection), and a green arrow means you have a protected left. Apparently, the driving public is too stupid to get it, they think the green ball means protected left just because you are in a left turn lane.
Not really, there is a very good use for red left arrows, and it's mostly the same reasoning for red right arrows.

The intersection may be designed in such a way that it is dangerous enough to make an unprotected left, so they want to prevent those turns while the rest of the intersection can go straight or right. This is particularly true when you're turning left onto a very wide street, and your street has only a few lanes, so you have a lot more distance to cover when turning left.

If you live in a city that isn't on a grid, intersections are not neat and tidy - they're sometimes very gangly, the road will turn as you are going through the intersection, etc that can make it a dangerous turn.

It could also be done where there is such heavy traffic that there aren't enough breaks in the opposite straight-through traffic that people will routinely get stuck in the middle of the intersection, waiting for a hole in which to turn left, which will only enhance gridlock as they will still be stuck as the light changes over.

Last edited by Rumor_Watkins; 02-03-2011 at 07:20 PM..
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  #46  
Old 02-04-2011, 11:22 AM
Pasta Pasta is offline
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And while you must watch for pedestrians in all cases, a circle-green is exactly when pedestrians are given the go-ahead to cross. If you couple that with 2+1 (or more) lanes to cross and with the left-turner focusing hard on the on-coming traffic with which he/she is about to play Frogger, then you have a dangerous situation. ("Wait... wait... okay, I can squeeze though... Floor it! *vroom* Oh crap, a person!")

In my area, there is a mix of red arrows and not, and it's always the wide, busy, ped-heavy intersections where the red arrows are found. (There's one important and busy intersection where one of the left turn lanes has four states: green arrow, red arrow, yellow arrow, and flashing yellow arrow, the last of which serves as a solid green circle but still with the visual clarification that you can't go straight.)
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
Not really, there is a very good use for red left arrows, and it's mostly the same reasoning for red right arrows.

The intersection may be designed in such a way that it is dangerous enough to make an unprotected left, so they want to prevent those turns while the rest of the intersection can go straight or right. This is particularly true when you're turning left onto a very wide street, and your street has only a few lanes, so you have a lot more distance to cover when turning left.
Yes, the big intersection near me has two left turn lanes and three through lanes. The left turn lanes have green and red arrows. I assume that there is data showing that inevitably people will misjudge the time they have for the left - especially if multiple people try to make a left turn on a green ball.
This intersection also had a ton of red-light runners before they put up a red light camera. Now they are very rare.
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  #48  
Old 02-04-2011, 03:04 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermitian View Post
I am familiar with left turn arrows and how they work, but a red left turn arrow is never needed. The left side of this diagram is how I see is the best way.

Red means stop (obviously), a green ball says you must yield to traffic to turn left (just like if you were at a 1 lane intersection), and a green arrow means you have a protected left. Apparently, the driving public is too stupid to get it, they think the green ball means protected left just because you are in a left turn lane.
The left side of that diagram is screwed up. Is it for one lane or two?
There are plenty of places where there is one lane of traffic (sometimes with an additional right turn lane) where left on green if safe is the rule. These don't have left turn arrows. I'm talking about left turn only lanes.
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  #49  
Old 02-04-2011, 03:23 PM
Si Amigo Si Amigo is online now
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We make legal turns on red all the time here in Michigan; but only because we "invented" the Michigan Left concept for making intelligent and safe left hand turns. Not like those people in Pittsburgh who scared the hell out of me when I saw what they did for making left hand turns.

Last edited by Si Amigo; 02-04-2011 at 03:24 PM..
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  #50  
Old 02-04-2011, 07:07 PM
mnemosyne mnemosyne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky812 View Post
It used to be a violation to turn right on a red light anywhere in the province Quebec but they changed that few years ago, the city of Montreal being the only holdout. This is a pain, especially when travelling from downtown to the suburbs and back as you need to be aware of where the city limits. ie. driving up to Laval, or going to Mirabel, etc.
I'm sure you know this, but for the sake of accuracy, it's illegal to turn right on red on the entire Island of Montreal, not just the city. You generally know when you've left the Island due either crossing a bridge or driving through a tunnel. When you come back onto the Island, there are helpful signs on the bridges and tunnel reminding you that you cannot turn right on red. Despite it's name, the West Island is not it's own island, but is rather the western end of the island.

Besides, it's all one-way streets that go left when you need to go right anyways. You can't get there from here. Go back, park and take the metro.

Or, "I might not be able to turn right on a red light, but tabarnak I can go right through it!"
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