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  #1  
Old 02-13-2001, 12:53 PM
Gozu Tashoya Gozu Tashoya is offline
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I've recently found an offer for Norton Systemworks 2001 for $15 (plus $4.50 or so shipping), and am tempted to pick it up. However, since I already have Norton Anti-Virus, all I'll be using it for is defragging and scanning my HD for potential problems. I might also use Ghost if that's included as I think it is.

However, I believe that Windows' disk defrag and scandisk are both made by Symantec anyway, so is there any real difference? If so, what are they? Thanks for any info.
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2001, 04:41 PM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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my avdice is to go to cnet.com and search for norton systemworks or simular searches.

IIRC N.S. includes firewall protection which you should have if you use dsl or cable to connect to the net.

Also another IIRC symantic use to creade the scandisk and defrag back in the DOS 6.0 days but I think MS has taken it in house since.

What you will get is a faster, slightly better scan and defrag - along w/ tools that will help yu maintain your system. The trouble is that if you use the tools and leave them running in the background they will slow your computer.

Ghost is only good for copying info from one HD to another.
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2001, 04:49 PM
Balduran Balduran is offline
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From my experience, some of the Norton utilities are quite good (like windoctor), but do not install any of the stuff on your hard drive, just run from the CD. At best they will start running in the background and slow things down as K2dave mentioned, at worst (which happened to me and others every time) they will cause windows to crash regularly (especially their 'crashguard' ironically).
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  #4  
Old 02-13-2001, 05:22 PM
handy handy is offline
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Symantec makes them both, so? Dodge makes the tiny Neon & an ultra fast Race car....its kinda like that.

Sure buy it just for its registry cleaning properties, if it has any, it can do it all when other programs are running, unlike scandisk which has a fit if something changes when its working.

I use System Suite 2000 it doesn't slow anything down.
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  #5  
Old 02-13-2001, 05:34 PM
BlackKnight BlackKnight is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Balduran
...they will cause windows to crash regularly (especially their 'crashguard' ironically).
Ironic, but very true. My computer crashed more than five times as often when I had Norton Crashguard installed than when I didn't.
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2001, 05:39 PM
flyboy flyboy is offline
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I use N.U., and I don't have any complaints. It doesn't seem to slow my system down at all, and a couple friends of mine, who know a lot about pc's, have strongly recommended it. They say it's much better than what's on windows. Heed the crashguard warning, though, because it'll pop up regularly for no good reason unless you shut it down. I honestly don't know what systemworks is, but if it's got utilities on it, for $15 it's a steal. I wish mine had cost that little!
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2001, 05:49 PM
Balduran Balduran is offline
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I beleive System Works is the bundled package of Norton Utilities, Antivirus, and a couple others.
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2001, 05:49 PM
sewalk sewalk is offline
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I heartily recommend SystemWorks if you are interested in having such advanced troubleshooting/maintenance tools at your disposal.

Many people complain that SW or NU slow their systems down too much. I agree but all it takes to fix this is to remove the system monitor tool (the icon looks like a traffic signal) from the startup folder in your start menu. The benefit of this monitor (without serious tweaking) is rather dubious when weighed against the performance penalty.

As for the drefag tool, you get a whole slew of options unlike the MS OEM tool.

The registry cleanup tool works very well, too.

Norton Antivirus is definitely the best all-around weapon against infection McAfee users, please consider the ease of updates before you start flaming me. My experience is that my clients who use NAV update MUCH more often than my clients who use McAV. That is a pretty solid telling of ease of updates, the number two factor in staying virus-free.

Ghost is a pretty decent HD backup tool. I run Ghost from the command line and break my image files into 695MB chunks so they fit on a CD-R. That way all I need to to do a full system restoration is a boot floppy with Ghost and CD-ROM drivers and a set of backup CDs. My roommate regularly restores 6-7GB of data this way when he breaks his Windows installation. He has a good stable configuration with all his favorite software already installed on the backup CDs.
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2001, 06:51 PM
Gozu Tashoya Gozu Tashoya is offline
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Thanks guys, sounds like pretty good advice all around. And I guess I'll find this out once it comes in, but is it possible to install just "undelete" (I guess it'd be considered the Norton protected recycle bin thingy?) and run everything else off the CD as Balduran suggested?
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2001, 07:33 PM
Balduran Balduran is offline
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I do recall that you can customize your installation of NU. You get a list of things you can choose or not. I never tried just the "undelete" though. I'm ignorant of it, how is this better than the recycle bin?
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2001, 09:01 PM
Gozu Tashoya Gozu Tashoya is offline
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It keeps files around longer, even after deleting them out of the recycle bin. This is the "protected" recycle bin aspect. I believe this also integrates the 'undelete' feature in that maybe it saves around the recently deleted files. After accidentally wiping out my ICQ settings a few nights ago, I've decided that this could be a godsend.
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2001, 04:26 AM
Tansu Tansu is offline
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Also, Norton Utilities defrags your swap file, which the Windows defrag tool doesn't.
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2001, 10:22 AM
handy handy is offline
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"Norton Utilities defrags your swap file"

Not very useful since you can just delete it & windows makes a new one.
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  #14  
Old 02-14-2001, 01:19 PM
The_Raven The_Raven is offline
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Howyadoin,
One advantage of Norton Speed Disk (their defrag tool) is that if you have a fixed-size swap file, the file can be relocated to the beginning of the physical drive at part of the defrag process. It's been written that this can improve swap file performance, particularly in systems without a lot of available physical memory. Other than that, the system monitoring functions are nothing but trouble. Also, I'm not a big fan of Ghost versions higher than 5. The newer versions install a ODBC client that completely hosed my existing ODBC settings when I tried to uninstall Ghost (Win NT w/SP5)...

YMMV,

<<The_Raven>>
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2001, 01:36 PM
El Zagna El Zagna is offline
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My personal experience with Norton/Symantec products has not been good. I have had two occasions in which my system crashed so badly that I had to reinstall the operating system, and each time there was a Norton product at the top of the list of suspects. (That's a Peter Norton product, not one of mine.) Those experiences have pretty much scared me away from those products.

Besides that, before I installed Norton Utilities (or whatever it was) I never really felt I needed the functionality it provided, once it was installed I rarely used it, and once I got rid of it I never missed it.
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  #16  
Old 02-14-2001, 01:44 PM
Balduran Balduran is offline
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I don't know what has happened. In the eighties and early nineties I used to think Norton was the Windows/DOS god. His products descended from heaven. Some of his stuff is still pretty good (pcanywhere for one), but it now looks more like it has been created by a mortal mind.
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  #17  
Old 02-14-2001, 04:54 PM
Tansu Tansu is offline
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Thank you, The_Raven. I should have mentioned that.
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  #18  
Old 02-14-2001, 05:05 PM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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Balduran, I used to work with a programmer who knew a guy who knew Peter Norton and my colleague told me "Peter Norton is an idiot with good business sense who knew to hire sharp people." I took it with a grain of salt, but I'm wondering if anyone else has heard this scuttlebutt. As opposed to, say, Bill Gates, who knew how to program in his young days (or so I hear).

Where is the book that exposes the dark underbelly of the computer giants whose smiling faces we see on the product boxes at Fry's?
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  #19  
Old 02-14-2001, 05:51 PM
Gozu Tashoya Gozu Tashoya is offline
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I must profess ignorance here. First of all, how would I know/find out whether my swap file (yay, at least I know what that is!) is of a fixed size or not? If it's not can/should I change it, for the sake of performance?

Secondly, I'll hope it never comes up, but what're ODBC settings and what happens when they get fubared?

On a side note, my SystemWorks should be here by Friday (or Monday if UPS really sucks).
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  #20  
Old 02-14-2001, 05:59 PM
handy handy is offline
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KK, its part of your virtual memory settings....where you can set the size of your swap. start:H input 'swap':
To reserve disk space for extra memory

to open the System Properties dialog box at the Performance tab.
Click Virtual Memory.
Make sure Let Windows manage my virtual memory settings is selected.
Notes
You can also open the System Properties dialog box by clicking Start, pointing to Settings, clicking Control Panel, and then double-clicking System.
Whenever possible, let Windows manage your virtual memory. Windows chooses the default setting based on the amount of free hard-disk space. The swap file then shrinks and grows dynamically based on actual memory usage.
If you need to specify a different disk or set limits on the minimum or maximum reserved space, click Let me specify my own virtual memory settings, and then enter the new disk in Hard disk or enter values (in kilobytes) in Minimum or Maximum.
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  #21  
Old 02-14-2001, 07:01 PM
Balduran Balduran is offline
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Jeez Arnold, that would ruin one of my childhood heros. I recall seeing an old Absolut Vodka add with Peter Norton on the front. He described himself as "a nerd who got lucky" I always thought he was just being modest.
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  #22  
Old 02-15-2001, 12:03 AM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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Well Balduran, as far as my story goes, consider the source. It's probably a load of hooey.
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  #23  
Old 02-15-2001, 02:44 AM
choosybeggar choosybeggar is offline
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<<total hijack>>

Anyone else get annoyed as hell seeing that #@!$% Peter Norton pic on the NAV splash screen at startup. F---in' egoist!
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  #24  
Old 02-15-2001, 03:21 PM
The_Raven The_Raven is offline
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Howyadoin,

ODBC (Open DataBase Connectivity, IIRC) is a fairly obscure method for simplifying connection to various database products (Access, etc...) through a common interface. In my particular situation, the Access database was critical to the operation of the machine I was controlling, so it was a real bummer when Ghost over-wrote the ODBC drivers. Ghost's uninstaller also made it impossible to uninstall or reinstall Office 97 Pro, which is where my original ODBC drivers came from.

Ghost 5.1 under DOS is a great tool; 6.0 and above, I wouldn't get involved...

<<The_Raven>>
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  #25  
Old 02-15-2001, 03:39 PM
Oicu812 Oicu812 is offline
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Peter Norton sold the Norton software name to Symantec, IIRC. One of the things that they insisted on was retaining him for his name and advertising. He contractually HAS to do this stuff. Even though he no longer runs the company, and probably does not even have any say in the way his image is used. But he is a multi-gazillionare, though.....

O
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Vidi Vici Veni!
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