What do people have against turn signals?

[raspberry hunter]

Driving through the business park on the way to work this morning, I was behind a car stopped in the road behind a bicyclist. I naturally thought there was some issue with the bicyclist so I stopped too.

No, it turned out the car had stopped preparatory to pulling into a street parking space. And had not used his/her turn signal, so I had no idea.

This always just annoys me. There seem to be a lot of people around here who don't use turn signals, and I just don't get it. It's not like it takes a lot of thought, and I'd think it would greatly reduce your chance of an accident (so I won't pull out in front of you while you're trying to change lanes, or whatever).

My dad does this too! It drives me batty. He says he tries to use it when there are other cars around, so I guess that's his excuse, but it's not a very good one (he doesn't always notice when there are other cars who would maybe like to see it).

[Giles]

I think it's just a matter of habit. I automatically put my signal on, even if there's no other person in sight. Others just have the habit of never using signals. It annoys me too, but what can you do?

[Icarus]

At the risk of sounding some flavor of racist, I have regularly observed folks using the opposite signal - when I can see the driver they appear to be of foreign extraction. I am curios if they are taught this method in their home country. Otherwise, I would rather they don't use a signal than use the opposite signal. Gah.

[kenobi 65]

Laziness. Bad habits. Nothing more than that.

[Nametag]

Signal? Yeah, right. Yeah, you'd LIKE to know what I'm doing next, huh? You bastards just want to fuck with me -- I see RIGHT through you, man, and I am NOT giving away the INFORMATION, know what I'm sayin'?

That is to say, I assume that raging paranoia is responsible, at least in some cases.

[kath94]

Originally Posted by Icarus

At the risk of sounding some flavor of racist, I have regularly observed folks using the opposite signal - when I can see the driver they appear to be of foreign extraction. I am curios if they are taught this method in their home country. Otherwise, I would rather they don't use a signal than use the opposite signal. Gah.

I wonder if they don't understand the operation of the turn signals or if turn indicators work differently in different countries.

On a similar note, I took Drivers' Ed in High School (yes, I'm that old). We had classroom instruction, simulator instruction (totally useless, BTW) and then hands-on driving. When it came my turn for the hands-up part the first time I had to ask a fellow classmate how the turn signals worked. I knew that pushing the bar one way made the signals flash to indicate one direction, while the other way meant the opposite direction, but nowhere in the written materials or in the simulator instruction did anything EVER say that you pushed up for RIGHT and down for LEFT. Something SO basic was completely silent.

[sevenwood]

It reveals my intentions. I like to keep my enemies confused.

[Shoeless]

My MIL doesn't use hers because she's afraid the bulbs will burn out. Seriously.

[Heyoka13]

Spread a new urban myth, NOT using turnsignals is how child molesters ID each other so they can share kiddie porn.

I predict we can get turnsignal compliance up to whatever % of the driving population is unattracted sexually to children.

[runner pat]

Originally Posted by Shoeless

My MIL doesn't use hers because she's afraid the bulbs will burn out. Seriously.

She's right. I keep having to replace bulbs as half the time I check, they're burned out.

[Angel of Doubt]

Heh. I'm a one-person turn signal using campaign in my town. Change lanes in front of me w/no signal and you get honked at in most cases. Well, unless you're a cop. THEY seldom use signals either. It seems to work at least temporarily - 9 times out of 10 if they change lanes again the turn signal comes on.

I don't think it's actually required to use signals here in Tennessee. It seems to have become a custom to pull quite a ways ahead and then eeeaasse over into the lane - sorry, that's not good enough! I want a signal!

[Heyoka13]

And what is with the 'One Blink Wonders' ??

Gee. that is SO generous, one whole turn signal blink.

Cripes, why the frell bother?

[Miss Woodhouse]

My husband learned to drive in Southern California. He didn't use turn signals for years because he said the other drivers would just see it as a challenge. Since we now live in a state with a population smaller than any given city in California and with wide open roads, people don't fight over 10 feet of road space. If you signal, most of the time, they'll let you in.

No idea why this little bit of freeway driving habit had to transfer over to street driving though. If you signal someone's not going to let you turn right?

He's much better now, being older and wiser and with most of the California edges worn off.

[TravisFromOR]

I track down non-signal users, wait to they get into the store or wherever they were headed, then steal their light housings. I mean, hey, they aren't using them, so they shouldn't care.


OK, not really, but it's something I fantasize about every time I see someone not signal.

[CanvasShoes]

I'm new. I'm frequently lost, and sometimes I don't know I need to turn there, until I'm THEREthere (and "Jill" the GPS unit is NOT always helpful, she's a little slow on the draw sometimes)! And since I did grow up using signals, I automatically use it as soon as I do know, but then it's only one or two blinks before I change lanes or exit.

It's not on purpose I swear, and trust me, since I'm probably lost and have probably BEEN lost for a while, I guarantee I'm a lot more frustrated (and therefore already being punished), than the other driver.

[Jamodu Green]

My observation as a pedestrian:

Right hand – steering wheel
Left hand – phone

[Count Blucher]

I always thought not using turn signals was supposed to be a cop thing. Or a pretending to be a cop thing.

[Giles]

Originally Posted by Jamodu Green

My observation as a pedestrian:

Right hand – steering wheel
Left hand – phone

Yes, that could be part of the story. Another reason to ban cell phone use in cars.

[runner pat]

Originally Posted by Jamodu Green

My observation as a pedestrian:

Right hand – steering wheel
Left hand – phone

Turn signals have been in non-use long before cell phones.

[Anaamika]

I hate to bitch about my SO, since I love him so much, but this is one of his habits. He gets mad that people are "not letting him in", but I point out he doesn't have a turn signal on! How the fuck are they supposed to even know you want to come over? Read your brain? He does it at the last minute, sometimes as he is switching. GRRR!

And I hate people who say "Oh, I do it when other people are around." Bullshit. You don't remember. You have to instill the habit and do it all the time.

[SenorBeef]

In Vegas it's a sign of weakness and invites an attack upon you. Seriously. If you're on the freeway and there's a car in the next lane 6 or 7 car lengths back, and you give a quick courtesy signal to show that you're about to enter his lane, he will gun the accelerator in an attempt to move into the space you want to move into. Even if he was doing the same speed as you and there's plenty of room on the road. People just drive pointlessly aggressively to their own benefit. So the safest way to change lanes in Vegas is to wait until you have some room and sudden move into the next lane. It's retarded.

[kferr]

Originally Posted by kath94

I wonder if they don't understand the operation of the turn signals or if turn indicators work differently in different countries.

On a similar note, I took Drivers' Ed in High School (yes, I'm that old). We had classroom instruction, simulator instruction (totally useless, BTW) and then hands-on driving. When it came my turn for the hands-up part the first time I had to ask a fellow classmate how the turn signals worked. I knew that pushing the bar one way made the signals flash to indicate one direction, while the other way meant the opposite direction, but nowhere in the written materials or in the simulator instruction did anything EVER say that you pushed up for RIGHT and down for LEFT. Something SO basic was completely silent.

I've heard this here before and it sort of baffles me how this is not intuitive. The indicator stalk is almost always on the left. Place your left hand so you're touching the wheel and the stalk at the same time. Turn left and you signal left, turn right and you signal right.

I once drove a car with the stalk on the right and the method was the same so you end up with down for right and up for left.

[Scuba_Ben]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

In Vegas it's a sign of weakness and invites an attack upon you. Seriously. If you're on the freeway and there's a car in the next lane 6 or 7 car lengths back, and you give a quick courtesy signal to show that you're about to enter his lane, he will gun the accelerator in an attempt to move into the space you want to move into. Even if he was doing the same speed as you and there's plenty of room on the road. People just drive pointlessly aggressively to their own benefit. So the safest way to change lanes in Vegas is to wait until you have some room and sudden move into the next lane. It's retarded.

The DC area is similar in this way. The counter is a maneuver locally called "the Beltway slide:"

The maneuver starts when the person several car lengths back in the new lane guns their engine. Just as they make the space too small to move into, tap your brakes. They continue accelerating, intent on making sure you do NOT get in front of them -- leaving a large space open BEHIND them. As they are insistent on speeding up, they don't notice that you have just slowed down relative to them. Change lanes into the open space, and let the pointlessly aggressive driver have the lead.

[kopek]

I'll signal all the time if I'm moving but some red lights I'll switch the signal off or leave it off until the last minute when the light turns green. Some folks around here feel that because you may make a right turn on red, you MUST. Screw that -- if I can't do it safely I'm just not doing it. Its easier to let them think I'm going straight than listen to their horn.

[Heyoka13]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

I hate to bitch about my SO, since I love him so much, but this is one of his habits. He gets mad that people are "not letting him in", but I point out he doesn't have a turn signal on! How the fuck are they supposed to even know you want to come over? Read your brain? He does it at the last minute, sometimes as he is switching. GRRR!

And I hate people who say "Oh, I do it when other people are around." Bullshit. You don't remember. You have to instill the habit and do it all the time.

Heh, heh. Anyone trying to merge into my lane without blinking, I WILL FRELLING HIT THEM!

I was riding with an off duty cop one day, and I heard him cursing that they would not let him merge, and he wasn't signaling!

I just sat there thinking "Just you wait, buddy, just you wait, I will scrape the side off your rig someday and I am going to farking love it, cop car or private vehicle!"

[SciFiSam]

Round here it's actually rare to see anyone bother to use their indicators/turn signals. This means that, at least once every two days, a car turns into a side road that I'm crossing and has to brake and wait, the driver drumming their fingers impatiently. I'd have waited if they'd indicated, but there are lots of cars on the main road all going slowly enough to turn left because of the volume of traffic; if I assumed all of them were going to turn, I'd never cross.

Apparently pedestrians don't need to know when a car's about to drive into them.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Heyoka13

And what is with the 'One Blink Wonders' ??

Gee. that is SO generous, one whole turn signal blink.

Cripes, why the frell bother?

I'll take one blink over none here.

People not using their turn signals is one of my major driving peeves. For me, predictability is one of the most important components to safe driving. Not using your turn signal obviously removes this safety aspect.

[Anaamika]

I agree with pulykamell. And it's not really an excuse to say "everyone does it". Everyone does it but you can start a trend of doing it right.

When driving, be predictable, not nice.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by SciFiSam

Round here it's actually rare to see anyone bother to use their indicators/turn signals. This means that, at least once every two days, a car turns into a side road that I'm crossing and has to brake and wait, the driver drumming their fingers impatiently. I'd have waited if they'd indicated, but there are lots of cars on the main road all going slowly enough to turn left because of the volume of traffic; if I assumed all of them were going to turn, I'd never cross.

Apparently pedestrians don't need to know when a car's about to drive into them.

I do exactly the same when I walk my dog. If a car is signaling I'll wait, even if I have plenty of time to get in the crosswalk. If they don't, I'll go even when I suspect they are going to be turning, and I throttle down my natural speed also.

[Snickers]

I try to use my turn signals all the time. (I'm sure I forget sometimes, but it is a habit with me, so maybe I don't. Anyway.)

I'm not a fan of the "signal and they'll let you in" idea. The turn signal is a signal of intent, not a request. As much as possible, I try to find the space first, then signal that Imma gonna use it. Obviously, this doesn't work as well in bumper-to-bumper traffic, but I still try.

[Kevbo]

"How long have you lived in Albuquerque?"

"Oh going on 20+ years now."

"Well, then your practically a native."

"No, I still use my turn signals."


I'm pretty sure that line would have gotten me laid at least twice if I had been up for it.

[chizzuk]

Originally Posted by Scuba_Ben

The DC area is similar in this way. The counter is a maneuver locally called "the Beltway slide:"

The maneuver starts when the person several car lengths back in the new lane guns their engine. Just as they make the space too small to move into, tap your brakes. They continue accelerating, intent on making sure you do NOT get in front of them -- leaving a large space open BEHIND them. As they are insistent on speeding up, they don't notice that you have just slowed down relative to them. Change lanes into the open space, and let the pointlessly aggressive driver have the lead.

I feel like it depends on the circumstances. If the traffic is sort of spaced out and moving at a pretty good clip, putting on your signal seems to result in someone trying to cut you off. However, if it's bumper-to-bumper, I usually have pretty good luck getting someone to take pity and let me in if I sit there blinking long enough.

However, I'll admit to getting really pissed and trying to cut people off when I see that they are just using merge lanes or other lanes to leapfrog a line of traffic and then cut back in after moving up 6 cars. This occurs on the merge ramp from New Hampshire Avenue onto the Outer Loop approximately once every 14 seconds. A few months ago, an SUV in front of me cut off a guy trying this move while simultaneously sticking his middle finger out through the sunroof. I laughed myself sick.

[scudsucker]

I fondly dream of waving down a non-signal-user, and saying, "Hey - there's something orange on the back of your car! You'd better check it out!"

Then point eagerly at the indicator. When the driver looks at me weirdly, I will then say, "So - you know what it is, then?"

But my country, South Africa, is a leading supplier of road rage, so I am too chicken to actually do it.

[Erdosain]

Originally Posted by Heyoka13

Cripes, why the frell bother?

Originally Posted by Heyoka13

Heh, heh. Anyone trying to merge into my lane without blinking, I WILL FRELLING HIT THEM!

[Regina George]Gretchen, stop trying to make frell happen! It's not going to happen![/Regina George]

[Prelude to Fascination]

Originally Posted by Miss Woodhouse

My husband learned to drive in Southern California. He didn't use turn signals for years because he said the other drivers would just see it as a challenge. Since we now live in a state with a population smaller than any given city in California and with wide open roads, people don't fight over 10 feet of road space. If you signal, most of the time, they'll let you in.

No idea why this little bit of freeway driving habit had to transfer over to street driving though. If you signal someone's not going to let you turn right?

He's much better now, being older and wiser and with most of the California edges worn off.

California, meet Minnesota. (I know you said you don't live in CA now.... )

I used to think people in my state (I'm in the midwest) were terrible drivers, but more and more, I'm seeing people from many states, from the eastern seaboard to at least the Rockies, with terrible driving habits.

While there are worse drivers in the world (Italians have always had bad reputations, and I remember reading in Guinness that in Egypt, the requirement to get a license was to drive 19 feet forward and 19 feet backward), Americans seem to have lost the ability to drive sensibly. I blame it all on Republicans. (That last sentence is a joke, mostly.)

[Drunky Smurf]

Here is a clip from a documentary about people not using their turn signals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKcSZfY1sf4

"Good luck everybody else." seems to be the attitude of non-signaling people.

[Erdosain]

Doesn't Jonathan Franzen's new book contemplate why some drivers refuse to use turn signals?

I can't find a full quote, but this is what Google Books will let me have:

Originally Posted by Freedom by Jonathan Franzen

... obsessively profiling and psychoanalyzing the drivers who refused to use their turn signals (almost always youngish men for whom the use of blinkers was apparently an affront to their masculinity, the compromised state of which was already manifest in the compensatory gigantism of their pickups and SUVs)

[MeanJoe]

I'll expose my neck to the Dopers to go in for the kill... I don't use my turn signals all the time.

In most cases when I do not signal it is because I have evaluated the traffic and location of all vehicles around me and determined that my use of a signal serves no purpose. By that I mean:

If your vehicle is in the lane next to me which I desire to enter but 3+ car lengths ahead/behind me then my signaling doesn't really mean anything to you. If you are ahead of me, what do you care if I joined you lane behind you. If you are behind me well if you are not paying attention to the cars around you and someone 3+ car lengths away causes you some form of stress when they change lanes in-front of you without signaling then perhaps you should just not be driving. Anyone that twitchy should not be on the roads.

If your vehicle is coming towards me in the opposite direction of traffic, or behind me in traffic, and I'm in the left-hand turning lane (dedicated turning lane) what does it matter to you if my signal is blinking away? I'm in the turning lane, I can only go left, ergo... shouldn't be a surprise to you that I'm turning left. Do you REALLY need my signal flashing away in order for you to figure out what I'm doing?

If I'm making a right hand turn, again I will evaluate traffic around me. If there is a car behind me, within 3 car lengths I'll put my signal on so you don't drive into my ass-end. If you are more than 3 car lengths behind me, you should be paying attention. My signal should not matter, you are 3+ car lengths behind me and unless you are doing mach-1 I'll be turning/turned before you get there. At the worst, my brake lights should give you plenty of warning of my intent to slow down and you should maintain your distance.

Now, on the other hand, if you are in the lane next to me which I intend to enter and you are less than 3 car lengths - and especially if less than 2 car lengths - behind me then I will signal to a.) let you know I intend to come into that lane and b.) give you an opportunity to either maintain speed/distance and I'll merge into the lane or to increase/decrease your speed distance and I'll react accordingly to fit into the lane and flow of traffic.

Likewise, if you are less than 2 car lengths behind me in traffic and I intend to turn right or left at the next intersection, I will turn on my turn signal as you are entirely to close to my ass and I don't want you to hit me when I decelerate (perhaps without hitting brakes) for the turn. Naturally if I am turning left in any scenario that does not involve a left-hand turn lane then I also signal to warn approaching traffic of my intention to potentially turn in front of them safely if they are close by. If they are 3+ cars away then again... what's the difference? I'll complete my turn before they reach the point where I'm crossing in front of their flow of traffic.

Sheesh.... trying to document all of the scenarios where I do/do-not signal is tiring. I'm sure there are others where I honestly feel no need to signal my intent as it has zero relevance to any driver around me and there are others where I do signal my intent. What drives me bat-shite crazy is those who whine that a signal should be used ever single time the steering wheel is turned. It is idiotic and nanny-ish.

In my opinion.

Dinner is served.

[TravisFromOR]

Originally Posted by MeanJoe

I'll expose my neck to the Dopers to go in for the kill... I don't use my turn signals all the time.

In most cases when I do not signal it is because I have evaluated the traffic and location of all vehicles around me and determined that my use of a signal serves no purpose. By that I mean:

If your vehicle is in the lane next to me which I desire to enter but 3+ car lengths ahead/behind me then my signaling doesn't really mean anything to you. If you are ahead of me, what do you care if I joined you lane behind you. If you are behind me well if you are not paying attention to the cars around you and someone 3+ car lengths away causes you some form of stress when they change lanes in-front of you without signaling then perhaps you should just not be driving. Anyone that twitchy should not be on the roads.

If your vehicle is coming towards me in the opposite direction of traffic, or behind me in traffic, and I'm in the left-hand turning lane (dedicated turning lane) what does it matter to you if my signal is blinking away? I'm in the turning lane, I can only go left, ergo... shouldn't be a surprise to you that I'm turning left. Do you REALLY need my signal flashing away in order for you to figure out what I'm doing?

If I'm making a right hand turn, again I will evaluate traffic around me. If there is a car behind me, within 3 car lengths I'll put my signal on so you don't drive into my ass-end. If you are more than 3 car lengths behind me, you should be paying attention. My signal should not matter, you are 3+ car lengths behind me and unless you are doing mach-1 I'll be turning/turned before you get there. At the worst, my brake lights should give you plenty of warning of my intent to slow down and you should maintain your distance.

Now, on the other hand, if you are in the lane next to me which I intend to enter and you are less than 3 car lengths - and especially if less than 2 car lengths - behind me then I will signal to a.) let you know I intend to come into that lane and b.) give you an opportunity to either maintain speed/distance and I'll merge into the lane or to increase/decrease your speed distance and I'll react accordingly to fit into the lane and flow of traffic.

Likewise, if you are less than 2 car lengths behind me in traffic and I intend to turn right or left at the next intersection, I will turn on my turn signal as you are entirely to close to my ass and I don't want you to hit me when I decelerate (perhaps without hitting brakes) for the turn. Naturally if I am turning left in any scenario that does not involve a left-hand turn lane then I also signal to warn approaching traffic of my intention to potentially turn in front of them safely if they are close by. If they are 3+ cars away then again... what's the difference? I'll complete my turn before they reach the point where I'm crossing in front of their flow of traffic.

Sheesh.... trying to document all of the scenarios where I do/do-not signal is tiring. I'm sure there are others where I honestly feel no need to signal my intent as it has zero relevance to any driver around me and there are others where I do signal my intent. What drives me bat-shite crazy is those who whine that a signal should be used ever single time the steering wheel is turned. It is idiotic and nanny-ish.

In my opinion.

Dinner is served.

Sounds like you put a lot of thought into the use of signals.

[Erdosain]

Originally Posted by TravisFromOR

Sounds like you put a lot of thought into the use of signals.

Seriously. How is your method not more onerous than just using the darn things??

[Kevbo]

Originally Posted by MeanJoe

In most cases when I do not signal it is because I have evaluated the traffic and location of all vehicles around me and determined that my use of a signal serves no purpose.

Please use them so that the motorcyclist. pedestrian, or car in your blind spot that you didn't notice when you did this evaluation has a better chance at staying alive.

[Critical Mass]

Just after I got my commercial driver's license, I was driving a tractor trailer through Chicago for the first time.

My freeway lane ended in about a mile and I needed to move one lane to the left. I put my turn signal on and waited for a car to let me in. They were stacked up bumper to bumper and no one was giving me an inch. With about a quarter mile left in my lane, I told my passenger they weren't letting me in - he was a much more experienced driver than I. He said leave the turn signal on and start moving left. They know you're going to do it because you have to do it now. They'll let you in. And they did.

[SciFiSam]

Originally Posted by Erdosain

[Regina George]Gretchen, stop trying to make frell happen! It's not going to happen![/Regina George]

Excellent quote. But I say frell a lot too. It works for me as a swear word that's not a swear word.

Meanjoe, I second what erdosain said - why not just indicate every time? Is there any occasion where indicating would be a bad thing? I don't drive, so for all I know, there might be, but I wouldn't have thought there were many. I do cycle and I indicate out of habit then.

[MeanJoe]

Originally Posted by TravisFromOR

Sounds like you put a lot of thought into the use of signals.

Of course typing out a process our brain executes in seconds seems more complex. I was attempting to think through the common driving scenarios where I know I have not used my turn signals. It is not a listing of driving logic that is posted on my windshield for reference when driving.

And knowing where all vehicles are in relation to my vehicle, relative distance and speed, direction, etc., is just normal driving. Are you not aware of cars around you when driving? Are you not constantly scanning between your windows and mirrors to determine what is in front, behind, and beside your vehicle? Why not?

[MeanJoe]

Originally Posted by Kevbo

Please use them so that the motorcyclist. pedestrian, or car in your blind spot that you didn't notice when you did this evaluation has a better chance at staying alive.

Again, do the majority of people just not scan between their windows and mirrors continually while driving to evaluate traffic around them - including checking the blind spots? I'm beginning to suspect the problem is not so much the people not using turn signals as it is other drivers seem to just not pay much attention to what is around them in any meaningful way.

Anyway, as I said in my original post i do not routinely signal and I'm sure that leaves me open to criticism and I'm okay with that. I should always signal and I should always use a seat belt and I should always eat low-fat, healthy foods too. Reality is that I don't always do what I should do.

[MeanJoe]

Originally Posted by SciFiSam

Excellent quote. But I say frell a lot too. It works for me as a swear word that's not a swear word.

Meanjoe, I second what erdosain said - why not just indicate every time? Is there any occasion where indicating would be a bad thing? I don't drive, so for all I know, there might be, but I wouldn't have thought there were many. I do cycle and I indicate out of habit then.

Just probably lazy habit. Again, if I'm driving northbound on a road with two lanes heading north and there are no cars within a significant distance from me (say 3+ car lengths) and I change lanes it impacts absolutely no one whether I signaled or not. My lane change did not impact the other driver in any way as my distance from them is such that they've not had to apply the brakes to avoid me or even reduce their speed - assuming we're traveling at relative speeds. If they are 3 car lengths behind me in the other lane and are traveling at 100mph and I'm going 5 mph, not signaling would cause a very serious problem.

[arnesw]

Originally Posted by MeanJoe

Just probably lazy habit. Again, if I'm driving northbound on a road with two lanes heading north and there are no cars within a significant distance from me (say 3+ car lengths) and I change lanes it impacts absolutely no one whether I signaled or not. My lane change did not impact the other driver in any way as my distance from them is such that they've not had to apply the brakes to avoid me or even reduce their speed - assuming we're traveling at relative speeds. If they are 3 car lengths behind me in the other lane and are traveling at 100mph and I'm going 5 mph, not signaling would cause a very serious problem.

But I have no way of knowing that you actually thought this through before changing lanes. If you signal, I'll know that you are somewhat predictable. If you don't, who knows what you're going to do next. It's all about how other people perceive your driving.

[MeanJoe]

Originally Posted by arnesw

But I have no way of knowing that you actually thought this through before changing lanes. If you signal, I'll know that you are somewhat predictable. If you don't, who knows what you're going to do next. It's all about how other people perceive your driving.

I guess I just don't see how it has an impact on you when I'm so far away that my decision to change lanes without a turn signal has zero impact on your driving. You do not have to change lanes to avoid me. You do not have to remove your foot from the gas pedal to gradually decrease your speed. You do not have to apply your brakes to reduce your speed in an emergency. I get the "courtesy" aspect of it, I really do. I should signal every time. What I don't get is the Recreational Outrage being expressed (not by you, you've been very polite) that OMIGODS SOMEONE DIDN'T SIGNAL THEY ALMOST KILLED ME attitude. As for other drivers being unpredictable - I'm a defensive driver and I consider everyone capable of unpredictable driving behavior whether they signaled a turn a minute ago or not. I drive defensively and maintain my own safe distance from everyone. You should be doing the same, right?

I guess another example would be - if you are driving down a straight road in the middle of the day in perfect weather. There is no one within 1 mile in front or behind your vehicle, nor is there anyone along side your vehicle or approaching from the opposite direction and no cross-streets/intersections. Would you use your turn signal to change lanes? If you can acknowledge that in this scenario the need is substantially lower with a significantly lower risk to yourself or others, then what about at 3/4 a mile? Or a 1/2 mile? 1/4 mile? 1/10 mile? 5 car lengths? 3 car lengths? Obviously at some point it becomes "nice to have" instead of "must have", right? Or what if you are 1 mile behind me when I change without a signal? Am I unpredictable still? What about at 1/2 mile? 1/4? I think you get my point, right?

And in my own defense - I'm the guy who will let you merge over into traffic when no one else will let you in. I'm the guy who will also give you a friendly smile and "thank you" wave and nod when you let me into traffic. I'm the guy who will patiently wait while you cross the street/parking lot in front of me and smile/wave for you to have a nice day as you go about your business. Really, I'm way above the average driver out there in terms of being conscientious and courteous on the road. Just don't expect me to use my turn signal every-single-time-in-every-circumstance.

[Waenara]

Originally Posted by MeanJoe

I guess another example would be - if you are driving down a straight road in the middle of the day in perfect weather. There is no one within 1 mile in front or behind your vehicle, nor is there anyone along side your vehicle or approaching from the opposite direction and no cross-streets/intersections. Would you use your turn signal to change lanes? If you can acknowledge that in this scenario the need is substantially lower with a significantly lower risk to yourself or others, then what about at 3/4 a mile? Or a 1/2 mile? 1/4 mile? 1/10 mile? 5 car lengths? 3 car lengths? Obviously at some point it becomes "nice to have" instead of "must have", right? Or what if you are 1 mile behind me when I change without a signal? Am I unpredictable still? What about at 1/2 mile? 1/4? I think you get my point, right?

In your scenario of being a mile away from any other vehicle I would use my turn signal to change lanes. I would also shoulder check. If there were no one within miles I would also slow down at a yield sign and stop at a stop sign.

I guess my opinion is - why not signal? It's not like it's a difficult or onerous task. I just reach down with my finger and flick the switch. It's habit and second nature. If I always signal then I'm covered, I don't need to analyze the situation on a case-by-case basis. I'm a defensive driver and I keep track of all the traffic around me so I could probably get away without signaling sometimes - but why bother? What does it really save you?

Also, as another driver on the street who may be behind your car, I value predictability from other drivers. If you change lanes in front of me without signaling, even if there's plenty of room, how do I know if you're a good driver who carefully assessed the situation, or if you're just a jackass would didn't signal? I know if I'm behind a car that's being driven by someone who looks like they might be a bad driver (e.g. doesn't signal, taps their brakes too often, tailgates, etc..), then I give them a wider berth and try not to drive to close to them. If they do one unpredictable thing, what else might they suddenly do?

Also, in my experience of being a passenger in cars for most of my life (I'm 31 and I only got my drivers license when I 28, because I took the bus/train everywhere before that), when I've been a passenger in cars with other people who don't always signal, or don't always shoulder check, they usually claim they only do it when needed and skip it when it's unnecessary. Maybe it's because I'm a more careful driver, but there's plenty of times when they figure a turn signal was unnecessary in a given situation and if I were driving I most certainly would have signaled (and not just because I always do, but because IMO it was necessary in that situation).

And then there's the inevitable occasional scenario where they don't shoulder check when they definitely should have (say, a cyclist coming quickly alongside you unexpectedly, or you're moving from the right lane to the middle lane, and at virtually the same time a car in the left lane also tries to move into the middle lane - without shoulder checking, no amount of previous scanning would let you know what they're doing).

[arnesw]

Originally Posted by MeanJoe

I guess another example would be - if you are driving down a straight road in the middle of the day in perfect weather. There is no one within 1 mile in front or behind your vehicle, nor is there anyone along side your vehicle or approaching from the opposite direction and no cross-streets/intersections. Would you use your turn signal to change lanes? If you can acknowledge that in this scenario the need is substantially lower with a significantly lower risk to yourself or others, then what about at 3/4 a mile? Or a 1/2 mile? 1/4 mile? 1/10 mile? 5 car lengths? 3 car lengths? Obviously at some point it becomes "nice to have" instead of "must have", right? Or what if you are 1 mile behind me when I change without a signal? Am I unpredictable still? What about at 1/2 mile? 1/4? I think you get my point, right?

Yes, I get your point. I'd say that if you measure your distance to me in car lengths, you are so close that I would appreciate it if you gave me a hint about your intentions, especially if there are other cars around. If you are half a mile ahead, I don't really care

Oh, and wear your seat belt. It might just save your life. It matters little if you drive safely if you meet a moron that doesn't.