Hopefully I won’t get bashed and belittled here or inundated with theory and quoted sections of the NEC as I was in another forum when I asked this question. I simply want to know which way is right or wrong to install GFCI’s. A simple yes or no works pretty good. Some simple explanations in layman’s terms could be helpful if they contribute to “normal” people’s understanding.
I want to know if (1)a GFCI breaker in a switch panel is all that’s needed to protect swimmers on a boat dock or (2) should every outlet be a GFCI outlet with the breaker not being a GFCI or (3) is is a good practice or wrong practice to install both a GFCI breaker in the switch box and that breaker serve GFCI outlets?
The METAL boat dock is bonded to a ground rod for a safety ground and all appliances or equipment are bonded to the metal dock. (this is the part where some guys went crazy on me trying to get into equipotential planes and all kinds of NEC stuff about sizing conductors and routes back to source which simply ain’t what I was asking about.)
The outlets needs to be protected with a GFI. you have got that and that is good.
A GFI breaker can be used to protect all the outlets, they will be all protected.
Or you can install a GFIC on one of the first outlets and connect to the outlet side of the GFIC all the down outlets. then they will all be protected.
Sniipe above is completely correct. I’m just chiming in to add that down at my dock, I went with the GFIC outlet at each and every outlet down on the dock or near the water. I also have a GFIC breaker feeding the dock lights separately.
Using an individual GFIC at each outlet is overkill, sure, but:
– They aren’t all that expensive
– If something trips one, you know the offending device immediately
– If an outlet fails (and outdoor ones do) I never have to guess at the wire path
– It is visually comforting to KNOW for certain that each outlet is protected.
As far as I know, a breaker or an outlet give equal protection. You can protect any number of outlets by installing a GFCI one first and feeding the rest from the load side of it. Regular outlets cost less than a buck, GFCI more like $10. You have to decide if the ease is worth the cost.
Yes at a boat dock there are many paths to ground. The GFCI makes sure none of them are ever through you. If the power going out is greater than the power coming back, it opens.
on the dock, a wet environment, a GFCI receptacle might get fouled by bugs, mud or corrosion; this is a slim chance but might occur.
so i would use a GFI breaker. a GFCI receptacle at each location or a GFCI receptacle feeding the others is OK in addition. Have a cover suitable for the receptacle in use (something plugged in to it) for a wet location.
that is a simple answer to the best of my knowing.
NEC Article 555 does not apply if it is a private dock.
Can I piggy-back on this thread to ask a related question?
If I plug a 3-prong appliance into a 2-prong outlet protected by a ground-fault interrupter, am I correct that there will be little or no electrocution risk? I’m sure rewiring the outlet to be 3-prong is preferred but wonder how much I’m sacrificing with a short-term expedient approach.
If the power going out = the power coming back, what performs the work???
In other words, I have some amount of power available from the local utility. I plug in my whatever-it-is and it uses power. I see the meter spin. I get billed for it. But if the same amount that went out, comes back, then we’ve got free power! Woo Hoo!
a GFI measure the amount of current in the hot and neutral wires. if the current is not equal then the GFI interrupts the circuit (shuts it off). this provides the safety against fatal shocks.
If you short (yourself) against hot and neutral wires you won’t trip the GFI breaker and can get shocked or even electrocuted.
Part of the concept of the 3rd prong (ground) is if a loose hot wire came in contact with the case it would short out and trip the breaker. Without the ground the casing can become electrified, if you touch that casing then you too can be electrified. If you also have a path to ground then the GFI circuit should trip and save your ass. So yes a GFI outlet can be used when a 3rd prong (ground) outlet is not used with similar end results.
I’m assuming what Khendrask is referring to is wiring each GFCI receptacle to the LINE terminals only.
This way, each one protects only whatever’s directly plugged into it, and will not be affected by any mishaps elsewhere on the circuit.
Otherwise, you’re correct that GFCIs should not be run in series and they can behave rather badly and non-intuitively. I’m somewhat amazed that the GFCIs built into many hair dryers today don’t confuse the GFCI receptacles in the bathroom. Apparently, it is possible to make GFCIs work properly in series if the characteristics of the load are known and unchanging.
Yes. The line from the breaker panel feeds each GFCI outlet individually, they are not daisy chained at all. As for a post above about bugs and other critters, well, I’ve never really had a problem with anything getting into the outlet boxes or the junction boxes. down at the beach and the dock.
I do use all non-metallic conduit and sealed boxes with covers though.
This is what I would like to emphasize. You’re only GFCI protected after the power runs through the device. At the panel GFCI breakers provide protection for the entire run of the line around the water hazard. The power line going to the first outlet can still kill you if the GFCI protection is an outlet device and the supply line power to that outlet is what you contact. You may find that you local electric codes require a breaker panel GFCI not giving you a choice.
Yes, you can, and it will protect you, but some electronic devices need an actual ground to function properly, and that doesn’t provide one. If you have an outlet wired that way but don’t know it, and an electronic device doesn’t work, it can be a real pain to figure out what the actual problem is.
Your GFI breaker will trip even without a ground on the outlet. A GFI outlet should trip but you will not be able to test it (needs to shunt a small current to the ground) and may fool people into thinking there is a ground.
You would be protected but you are removing one layer of protection.
If the appliance shorts to the case (deffinately had this happen with a toaster over where the contaminated oils from cooking formed a conductive path), it will have to go through you before it trips the GFI.
Is there NO way to get a real ground to the outlet so that it can have a three prong outlet?