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  #1  
Old 03-28-2011, 02:21 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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What is meant by place of birth on a passport

My parents were pregnant for me in town X, but since it was a small town they went to a hospital in town Y to give birth to me, then brought me back to town X. So do I list town X (where my parents were living and where I was raised) as my place of birth or town Y (where the hospital I was born in was located) as my place of birth? My birth certificate says I was born in town Y, so I am thinking that is the one I use on a passport application.
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  #2  
Old 03-28-2011, 02:25 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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Where were you when you emerged from the womb? That's where you were born. I can only see a problem if you were born on a moving train, car, boat or plane.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:25 PM
Giles Giles is online now
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It's where the hospital was located, not the home that you went back to when a few days old.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:49 PM
mnemosyne mnemosyne is offline
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Since your birth certificate is likely to be the supporting document for your passport approval, the town you were born in is the one one listed on the birth certificate. If the two don't match, there's a chance your passport application could be refused.



Funny story - my grandmother went into labour with my mom while visiting a friend in a town she happened to loathe. This hated town had a perfectly usable hospital. She forced my grandfather to drive back to their home town - about 45 minutes away - because she kept saying "I will NOT have my child be born in W-!!"
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:10 PM
robert_columbia robert_columbia is online now
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It's similar for me. My parents were living in a small city, but went up and across the river to a larger one to give birth to me. I'm not sure if the smaller city even had a full hospital back then, as a larger city was so close. Also, my parents insurance probably wanted them to go to the larger city. My "place of birth" is the larger city, and it's the one I use to apply for a passport, and what my birth certificate says. Now, my "hometown" or "where I am from" is more liquid - I feel OK saying either the small city or the large one as the my place of origin.
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:17 PM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
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I was born in a hospital in a different town from where I lived; I always need to use the place where the hospital is located as my place of birth.

That's also where your birth certificate is kept. A town without a hospital only has birth certificates for those born at home.
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  #7  
Old 03-28-2011, 03:23 PM
Nava Nava is offline
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Like so many other things, it varies by the legalities of where you are.

It will be the place listed in your birth certificate - now, which place is listed? In Spain it used to be the place where you actually exited the womb, but with the advent of maternity wards this meant that there were thousands of villages where the birthrate was exactly zero (many provinces have a single maternity ward and there are places where people prefer to go someplace else which they perceive as having better hospitals - this is a serious problem for Madrid's medical system, for example). While factually accurate if you like your nits well-picked, it didn't reflect the actual amounts of babies seen around any of those places.

The law was changed to allow parents to record the town where they actually live, the town where the kid would have been born if it was a home birth. It is also possible to change old records to reflect this, although I don't know anybody who has done it; I do know many people who have used their "home at time of birth location" for place of birth since the law was changed (my nephew for example).

Last edited by Nava; 03-28-2011 at 03:26 PM..
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  #8  
Old 03-28-2011, 03:26 PM
Omar Little Omar Little is online now
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Town Y.

It's common tourist trap. Most people avoid it.
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  #9  
Old 03-28-2011, 03:56 PM
SciFiSam SciFiSam is offline
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Yup, the one on your birth certificate. They don't actually care where you grew up, esp. if it's within the the country whose passport you're applying for - they just want to be able to check that you really were born when and where you claim.

I grew up in a largish town of c.100,000 people, which was served by a hospital in a teeny tiny village, population c.600. The hospital was huge and served several nearby towns. This is the town that appears on my birth cert and my passport and the same goes for hundreds of thousands of people living nearby despite so few people really living there. This looks even weirder now that the hospital's closed.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:08 PM
Giles Giles is online now
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Originally Posted by SciFiSam View Post
Yup, the one on your birth certificate. They don't actually care where you grew up, esp. if it's within the the country whose passport you're applying for - they just want to be able to check that you really were born when and where you claim.
But it could make a difference if the hospital is in a different country. For example, if a Canadian woman went into labour and gave birth while visiting the United States, the child's birthplace would be the U.S. and the child would be a U.S. citizen. (It would also be a Canadian citizen if either the mother or the father were Canadian.)
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:20 PM
RadicalPi RadicalPi is offline
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Not that it means all that much, but I thought I'd point out that if you're American, the passport itself will only have the state name under "Place of Birth." So, it's not like you'll have to worry about saying the wrong place if someone asks. Just a small, probably worthless, piece of info.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:32 PM
Asympotically fat Asympotically fat is online now
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My place of borth in my passport just says London, which is obviously a pretty big place. I think my Birth certificate says the borough and district in London where the hospital that I was born was located not the borough and district where my family lived and I spent the first few years of my life.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:34 PM
robcaro robcaro is offline
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Just list the name of the town/city, state shown on the birth certificate. My passport shows only the state and country. "South Dakota, USA."
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  #14  
Old 03-28-2011, 04:42 PM
SciFiSam SciFiSam is offline
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Originally Posted by Giles View Post
But it could make a difference if the hospital is in a different country. For example, if a Canadian woman went into labour and gave birth while visiting the United States, the child's birthplace would be the U.S. and the child would be a U.S. citizen. (It would also be a Canadian citizen if either the mother or the father were Canadian.)
Yes, definitely - the place of registration is important to the govt. The govt still doesn't care where you actually grew up. If you were registered in Oklahoma City but spent your entire childhood in Los Angeles, the govt doesn't care about Los Angeles - and I mean any govt, not just the US; if you're entitled to a British passport by, say, marriage, they will also only want to know about Oklahoma.
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  #15  
Old 03-28-2011, 04:53 PM
psychonaut psychonaut is offline
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So what happens if you're born at sea? What gets put into your identification documents then? Just the words "at sea"? The name of the body of water? The latitude and longitude coordinates?
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  #16  
Old 03-28-2011, 04:54 PM
elfkin477 elfkin477 is offline
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Yes, it's town Y, and that's not too unusual if your parents lived somewhere too small to support a hospital. I've never lived in the city I was born in, though I lived in both of its neighbors.
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  #17  
Old 03-28-2011, 05:29 PM
Keeve Keeve is offline
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Originally Posted by Nava View Post
this is a serious problem for Madrid's medical system, for example). While factually accurate if you like your nits well-picked, it didn't reflect the actual amounts of babies seen around any of those places.
Why is this a problem? Does the government allocate resources based on the number of births rather than on the current population? Just wondering.
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  #18  
Old 03-28-2011, 05:38 PM
Mops Mops is offline
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Originally Posted by Keeve View Post
Why is this a problem? Does the government allocate resources based on the number of births rather than on the current population? Just wondering.
I can see how this can screw up population forecasts - if you project a town's population growth rate as (births - deaths + population influx - population outflux), you'll mistakenly forecast a population decline for a town without a maternity hospital, a population growth for a town with one.
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:58 PM
SciFiSam SciFiSam is offline
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Originally Posted by Mops View Post
I can see how this can screw up population forecasts - if you project a town's population growth rate as (births - deaths + population influx - population outflux), you'll mistakenly forecast a population decline for a town without a maternity hospital, a population growth for a town with one.
Hence things like the census. Otherwise the tiny village where my hospital was located would have thousands of school places despite having only a few hundred residents.
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  #20  
Old 03-28-2011, 07:03 PM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is online now
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For place of birth, my US passport just says "California, USA." My Canadian one is both more and less specific: "San Diego, USA" (there's also a San Diego in Texas). My birth certificate lists the hospital's address as "place of birth," but there's also a line for "residence of mother," and I bet I could have used either town.

Last edited by Dr. Drake; 03-28-2011 at 07:03 PM.. Reason: clarity
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:10 PM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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My dad's just has a county, as he was born at home in rural Georgia. Caused a raised eyebrow once.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:00 PM
Cub Mistress Cub Mistress is offline
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My US passport just lists "France" as place of birth even though I am native born American. I was born to two American citizens while my dad was stationed at an Air Force base in France.This has caused extra questions and requests for extra documentation when I did a clinical day at the VA in nursing school and for my son's security clearance in the Air Force. I just don't see how one gets more All-American than to draw one's first breath on a Military base!
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:05 PM
Monty Monty is online now
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Well, an American base overseas is still the territory of the country hosting the US military there. Like you, I was born to American citizens living overseas, but in my case, my father was in the Army, not the Air Force, and, of course, I am a natural born citizen complete with the Certificate of Citizenship.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2011, 11:17 PM
Snnipe 70E Snnipe 70E is offline
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You should put the city that is in the county that your birth certificate is recorded.

I have always had a problem with that. I was born at home. The ranch house is in Monterey County Ca. The address on my birth certificate is Box 131 Route 4 Watsonville Ca. Watsonville is in Santa Cruz county. When I started school there was some problems because the school could not verify my birth in Santa Cruz county.

I took the procedure of writing residence Monterey County Ca. I got questions on that and would have to explain why.

My passport only shows California.
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2011, 11:18 PM
China Guy China Guy is offline
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Place of birth is where you were born and not where your parents resided. I just had to get a copy of my birth certificate, and it's from bumfuck S Dakota, which was a few hours away from bumfuck Wyoming where my parents lived. But think about it, if anyone is going to check your records, they start from the birth certificate, which is tied to where you were physically born.

Monty - you have an actual certificate of citizenship? I know you're no spring chicken and things change over the decades. These days all you get is a "certificate of birth abroad", which means you are a natural born citizen but it's not a birth certificate....
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:49 AM
JpnDude JpnDude is offline
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The last time I got my U.S. passport renewed, I did it locally via the U.S. embassy in central Tokyo. It was interesting to see that under "Issuer" was "United States Department of State" instead of the usually "Passport Agency <<city>>"

For the record, both my passport and Japanese "green card" (actually off-white) say "California, USA"
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  #27  
Old 03-29-2011, 01:04 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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Originally Posted by SciFiSam View Post
Hence things like the census. Otherwise the tiny village where my hospital was located would have thousands of school places despite having only a few hundred residents.
Yes, but Mops is correct, one of the things it screws up is population forecasts, which in turn is what leads to allocation of certain "growth" resources. Schools get closed if there aren't enough kids in the area - but new ones get built only if there are projections for enough kids.

It can also influence things like access to government aid: there are programs which I can request on account of "being from Navarra". This can be demonstrated in two ways: a birth certificate showing I was born in Navarra (or valid ID, which in turn required a BC the first time I asked for it, stating I was born in Navarra) or a certificate from the census stating I've been living in Navarra for X years (where X varies according to the program). Others require the recipient to be a resident (access by birth does not apply), but for those for which it does, whipping out my DNI is a lot faster than going to the census for a cert - and I'm entitled to those for as long as I live. Similar programs are in place in many regions and yes, I know people who were born somewhere unexpected "because their mother happened to be there".

Last edited by Nava; 03-29-2011 at 01:04 AM..
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  #28  
Old 03-29-2011, 01:15 AM
eenerms eenerms is offline
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Funny..my passport just says 'United Kingdom" for place of birth. I don't recall any of my US passports listing the town.
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2011, 12:39 PM
suranyi suranyi is offline
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Originally Posted by eenerms View Post
Funny..my passport just says 'United Kingdom" for place of birth. I don't recall any of my US passports listing the town.
US passports list just the state if you were born in the US. Just the country if you were born outside the US. They never list the city you were born in. But I think you still have to give that info on the passport application.
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  #30  
Old 03-29-2011, 12:50 PM
Giles Giles is online now
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My Australian passport says I was born in Sydney, which is strictly speaking not true: I was born in North Sydney, which was and still is a separate municipality from the City of Sydney, at the other end of the Sydney Harbour Bridge. My parents' home, and my first home, was in a different local government area, in Warringah Shire, which still covers some Sydney northern outer suburbs: I suppose that if I'd been born there, my passport would still say "Sydney".
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  #31  
Old 03-29-2011, 01:18 PM
Keeve Keeve is offline
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
My parents were pregnant for me in town X, but since it was a small town they went to a hospital in town Y to give birth to me, then brought me back to town X. So do I list town X (where my parents were living and where I was raised) as my place of birth or town Y (where the hospital I was born in was located) as my place of birth? My birth certificate says I was born in town Y, so I am thinking that is the one I use on a passport application.
I hope the OP comes back some day to explain why the heck he entertained the possibility that "place of birth" might actually mean "place where raised".
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  #32  
Old 03-29-2011, 02:17 PM
Kyla Kyla is offline
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My dad's just has a county, as he was born at home in rural Georgia. Caused a raised eyebrow once.
His birth certificate, or his passport? Because every passport I've ever seen just has the state of birth listed, unless the bearer was born outside of the US, and then it lists the country.

I've compared my cousin's US and UK passports - her US passport lists her place of birth as the UK. Her UK passport lists her place of birth as London.
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  #33  
Old 03-29-2011, 09:56 PM
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
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I grew up in Texarkana, Texas, but was born at the hospital 400 feet inside Arkansas. So I'm forever cursed with "Arkansas" in my passport.
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  #34  
Old 03-29-2011, 10:52 PM
GreasyJack GreasyJack is online now
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I grew up in Texarkana, Texas, but was born at the hospital 400 feet inside Arkansas. So I'm forever cursed with "Arkansas" in my passport.
No "Native Texan" license plate for you!
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  #35  
Old 03-30-2011, 09:54 AM
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
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Rather ironic, since I'm the guy who (in 1979) came up with the "Native Texan" meme. A t-shirt printer called Schuerz & Co. in Austin made quite a bit of money off my $25 idea.

Last edited by Mr Downtown; 03-30-2011 at 09:56 AM..
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  #36  
Old 03-30-2011, 02:31 PM
robert_columbia robert_columbia is online now
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Not that it means all that much, but I thought I'd point out that if you're American, the passport itself will only have the state name under "Place of Birth." So, it's not like you'll have to worry about saying the wrong place if someone asks. Just a small, probably worthless, piece of info.
Or the territory - I was born in a US territory and have a territorial birth certificate. My US passport lists the territory as my place of birth.
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:34 PM
Hypnagogic Jerk Hypnagogic Jerk is offline
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I'm also born in a different city than the place where my parents lived, and both cities, while neighbours, are in different provinces. So my birth certificate is actually issued by a province in which I've never resided.
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:39 PM
Darth Nader Darth Nader is offline
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Rather ironic, since I'm the guy who (in 1979) came up with the "Native Texan" meme.
Huh. So your name is Robert Shaver and you lived in Colorado in 1978? Cool.
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  #39  
Old 03-30-2011, 11:17 PM
obfusciatrist obfusciatrist is offline
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Lived from birth in Vancouver, Washington. Born at a hospital across the river in Portland, Oregon. Whenever it is the government asking my birthplace is Portland.

My youngest sister is the only one of us born in Vancouver, Washington, and she cheated by squirting out so fast he was born on my mom's bedroom floor.

I assume the reason they care is so that if they want to start verifying your identity they know where to begin looking for official birth records so the most important thing is what jurisdiction is holding your paperwork.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:28 AM
amanset amanset is offline
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The last time I got my U.S. passport renewed, I did it locally via the U.S. embassy in central Tokyo. It was interesting to see that under "Issuer" was "United States Department of State" instead of the usually "Passport Agency <<city>>"

For the record, both my passport and Japanese "green card" (actually off-white) say "California, USA"
That happens with British Passports too. Mine says "FCO" (Foreign and Commonwealth Office) instead of the usual issuing city.
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  #41  
Old 04-01-2011, 08:59 AM
Omar Little Omar Little is online now
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My youngest sister is the only one of us born in Vancouver, Washington, and she cheated by squirting out so fast he was born on my mom's bedroom floor.
added emphasis, mine.

Gender identity issues?
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  #42  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:28 AM
Keeve Keeve is offline
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Gender identity issues?
Possible. But I think a typo (like missing the "s") is just a bit more likely...
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  #43  
Old 04-01-2011, 01:16 PM
A. Gwilliam A. Gwilliam is offline
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That happens with British Passports too. Mine says "FCO" (Foreign and Commonwealth Office) instead of the usual issuing city.
Interesting. My old passport (issued as a replacement in 1998) has
Quote:
BRITISH EMBASSY
WASHINGTON DC

(Incidentally, I've never been to Washington DC! )
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:43 PM
Giles Giles is online now
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My passport says it was issued in Washington DC, too -- and it was, because I went to the embassy there to give them the form to renew it. Ohio is supposed to be handled by the Australian consulate in New York, but I go to DC much more often than I go to NYC.
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  #45  
Old 10-02-2013, 11:57 PM
Krislee Krislee is offline
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I was also born on an American Air Force Base in a European country. Point of clarification: a person born of American parents while in a different country is considered an "American Citizen Born Abroad" not a native or natural born American. You are only a native born American if you are born in America.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:54 AM
friedo friedo is online now
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I was also born on an American Air Force Base in a European country. Point of clarification: a person born of American parents while in a different country is considered an "American Citizen Born Abroad" not a native or natural born American. You are only a native born American if you are born in America.
Please tell that to John McCain.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:11 AM
bibliophage bibliophage is online now
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a person born of American parents while in a different country is considered an "American Citizen Born Abroad" not a native or natural born American. You are only a native born American if you are born in America.
The Congressional Research Service says you are mistaken. From this PDF:
Quote:
The weight of legal and historical authority indicates that the term “natural born” citizen would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship “by birth” or “at birth,” either by being born “in” the United States and under its jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents; by being born abroad to U.S. citizen-parents; or by being born in other situations meeting legal requirements for U.S. citizenship “at birth.”
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  #48  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:22 AM
Keeve Keeve is offline
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I hope the OP comes back some day to explain why the heck he entertained the possibility that "place of birth" might actually mean "place where raised".
still waiting...

I apologize for the hijack, but I've seen this sort of behavior very often on SD. Someone will raise a question, and the consensus is either that (as in this case) the answer is obvious and we're wondering why it wasn't obvious to the OP, or (more frequently) we don't really understand the question and we hope the OP will clarify it. But we never hear from the OP again.

Does this count as "trolling"? The OP sure sounded sincere to me. Maybe he's satisfied with the answer he got, and isn't going to bother to thank us. I'm not so vain that I need the thanks; I'd just be happy to know that we didn't waste our time, and he actually read our responses and hasn't vanished off the face of the earth.
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  #49  
Old 10-03-2013, 06:59 AM
kayaker kayaker is offline
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So, Keeve, you've been tapping your foot for 2 1/2 years, patiently waiting. . .?
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:19 AM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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A friend of mine once told the story of trying to cross into the USA with his elderly grandmother, many years ago when a birth certificate (or license) was sufficient to get into the USA from Canada.

The border guard objected - "It says here she was born n Fort Qu'Appelle, North West Territories. Fort Qu'Appelle is in Saskatchewan."
"Not before 1905 it wasn't."

--

My newest British passport was issued by the Washington embassy even though I'm in Canada. They've reduced the number of places that make passports now that they contain so much high tech security features.
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