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  #1  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:10 PM
NetTrekker NetTrekker is offline
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Jackie Kennedy during assassination

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q91RZko5Gw

In the video of JFK's assassination, I'm surprised by Jackie's reaction. I would think that upon his head getting hit and the spattering of blood, she would recoil in terror, cover mouth with hands and scream, etc. Instead she wheels right around and crawls onto the back of the car to retrieve his scalp...it seems really odd that she even noticed where it went. And of course she opened herself up to being shot as well...I think I would have been hitting the deck, myself. Do first families receive some kind of Secret Service training on what to do in case of attack? Even so, it wouldn't include scalp-retrieval instruction, would it (at least prior to 1963)? Anyone else find it strange?
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  #2  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:48 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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I don't think there's a typical reaction to having your spouse shot in the head while sitting next to you.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:50 PM
Leaper Leaper is offline
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I think I read somewhere where she described her thought process during those moments... It was obviously all driven by irrational shock. Can't remember where I saw it, though...
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:04 AM
Leaffan Leaffan is online now
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Quote:
Anyone else find it strange?
No.
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  #5  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:23 AM
CanvasShoes CanvasShoes is offline
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I always thought she was trying to get the secret service guy to come quickly to help.
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  #6  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:28 AM
Crown Prince of Irony Crown Prince of Irony is offline
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I always thought she was either trying to get the hell out of the car, or reach for the Secret Service agent.
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  #7  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:32 AM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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I would totally believe, "holy shit part of my husband's head is on the trunk, he probably needs that." *reach*.
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  #8  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:34 AM
Leaper Leaper is offline
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And yes, from my memories of what I mentioned above, she was thinking about trying to put Jack's head back together.
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  #9  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:44 AM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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Apparently she said, "They have killed my husband. I have got his brains in my hand." Which props to her education. I don't think I'd have been able to whip out the present perfect like that were I in a similar situation.
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  #10  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:02 PM
NetTrekker NetTrekker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan View Post
No.
So you figure she was pretty well prepared for this eventuality and was just doing what she knew she had to do in terms of gathering her husband's head pieces together?

For all the conspiracy theorizing that has gone on about this, it's odd that Ms. K.'s behavior is overlooked (at least it is to me).
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  #11  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:10 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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JK or JKO (but never JO as she was too classy to be labeled that) was a zombie. She said, "Brains, brains brains."

The alternate explanation of why she did it was simply she was in on the plot so she turned away so it'd look better. That's why she wasn't afraid of being shot, she was in on it and paid Oswald to do it. She then paid Ruby to hush Oswald up.

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  #12  
Old 04-06-2011, 11:14 PM
flatlined flatlined is offline
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I was raised in a different time from her. I don't have any idea what she was thinking. I've had so many first aid classes that its been drilled into me that after the bleeding is controlled, find the missing part and ice it down. So, if I saw a loved one's brains blown out, I might have tried to gather them up so the doctors could put them back. Stress/panic makes people react in strange ways at times.

Last edited by flatlined; 04-06-2011 at 11:18 PM.. Reason: edited to say that I didn't know there was color TV back then
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  #13  
Old 04-06-2011, 11:39 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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Originally Posted by Crown Prince of Irony View Post
I always thought she was either trying to get the hell out of the car, or reach for the Secret Service agent.
Just before she reached back, you can see the Secret Service agent attempting to climb onto the back of the car. (I believe that prior to that, he was walking behind the car.) So it appears that she was trying to help him onto the car. I think you can see her grab his hand (at frame 388).
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  #14  
Old 04-07-2011, 02:52 AM
JHE1967 JHE1967 is offline
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Is there any credible account re what exactly she said immediately after the fatal shot? Was it really "brains, brains, brains"?
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  #15  
Old 04-07-2011, 04:28 AM
SecondJudith SecondJudith is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I don't think there's a typical reaction to having your spouse shot in the head while sitting next to you.
Indeed.
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  #16  
Old 04-07-2011, 04:58 AM
Colophon Colophon is offline
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Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Just before she reached back, you can see the Secret Service agent attempting to climb onto the back of the car. (I believe that prior to that, he was walking behind the car.) So it appears that she was trying to help him onto the car. I think you can see her grab his hand (at frame 388).
Exactly. When we covered this in history at school I remember my classmates saying "Look, she's trying to pick up his brains!" and I thought, no, she's trying to give that police guy a hand up onto the back of the car.
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  #17  
Old 04-07-2011, 07:54 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
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The basic fallacy here is that she was looking for JFK's scalp. That's just plain nonsense on all levels.

Start with the physics: whether you believe the bullet came from the School Book Depository or the Grassy Knoll, JFK's brain matter would not have spilled out behind him. The bullet would have pushed it out, so it would have been either on the floor of the car, or on her lap.

Considering that all the evidence also shows that JFK's skull remained attached to the rest of him, this is triply wrong.

It's also the last thing one thinks of when bullets are heading in your direction. It's clear that she's either trying to get to the secret service man (we see him climbing on the back) or trying to get out of the car to protect herself. And that assumes she was even thinking rationally about it at all -- quite likely, she was just panicking and not thinking clearly.

She commented about realizing she had her husband's brains in her hand. But that was on the way to the hospital, not when she was crawling onto the trunk in reaction to the shot.
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2011, 08:34 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
The basic fallacy here is that she was looking for JFK's scalp. That's just plain nonsense on all levels.
I think this is where the idea comes from:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Service agent Clinton Hill, testifying to the Warren Commission
Mr. Hill: I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.
[...]
Mr. Specter: When, in relationship to the second shot, did Mrs. Kennedy move out of the rear seat?
Mr. Hill: Just after it.
Mr. Specter: You say that it appeared that she was reaching as if something was coming over to the rear portion of the car, back in the area where you were coming to?
Mr. Hill: Yes, sir.
Mr. Specter: Was there anything back there that you observed, that she might have been reaching for?
Mr. Hill: I thought I saw something come off the back, too, but I cannot say that there was. I do know that the next day we found the portion of the President's head.
Mr. Specter: Where did you find that portion of the President's head?
Mr. Hill: It was found in the street. It was turned in, I believe, by a medical student or somebody in Dallas.
This is probably where the idea that she was looking for a piece of his head or skull came from. But Hill wasn't sure, he was guessing. It does not sound like he remembers her trying to get him onto the limo and he does not say if she said anything about that. I included the bit about Hill losing his footing because it is also possible she was trying to get Hill (who was responsible for protecting her) to get on the car or tell him something.

Quote:
Start with the physics: whether you believe the bullet came from the School Book Depository or the Grassy Knoll, JFK's brain matter would not have spilled out behind him. The bullet would have pushed it out, so it would have been either on the floor of the car, or on her lap.
I don't know much about physics or ballistics, but I don't think it all has to go straight in one direction. Wikipedia says his blood was all over the car, including the interior around them and the trunk behind him.

Quote:
And that assumes she was even thinking rationally about it at all -- quite likely, she was just panicking and not thinking clearly.
If she's not thinking rationally, then it's not impossible she was looking for a piece of his scalp or skull. It sounds ridiculous but it's not impossible. She never explained what she was doing on the trunk and told the Warren Commission she couldn't remember going on the back of the car at all. Both the Connallys testified she said "They have killed my husband. I have got his brains in my hand." John Connally didn't really indicate when she said that, but Nellie Connally's testimony makes it sound like it was just after the kill shot.
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2011, 08:45 AM
Colophon Colophon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
This is probably where the idea that she was looking for a piece of his head or skull came from. But Hill wasn't sure, he was guessing.
It is a verifiable fact that quite a large piece of skull was blown out of the car. It's known as the Harper fragment after the person who found it (in the grass forward and left from the car's position at the time of the shooting).

I'm pretty sure that the white "streak" you can see heading off in the 1 o'clock direction in frames 313-4 of the Zapruder film is this fragment, spinning and catching the sun so the streak appears to alter in brightness regularly along its length. (I won't link to the image as it's rather graphic, but if you do a Google image search for "harper fragment 313" you should find it.)

But, as I said, that went forwards and left, and landed some distance from the car, so has no relevance to Jackie climbing backwards.

Last edited by Colophon; 04-07-2011 at 08:47 AM..
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2011, 08:52 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Colophon View Post
But, as I said, that went forwards and left, and landed some distance from the car, so has no relevance to Jackie climbing backwards.
She wouldn't necessarily have known that if she was looking for a piece of his skull. But I was saying that Hill was only guessing that's what she was doing when she went out on the back of the car. He didn't know why she did it and she didn't remember doing it, so I guess 'she was looking for his brains' is the only theory ever really offered by anyone who was there even if it is not the most sensible explanation.
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  #21  
Old 04-07-2011, 09:37 AM
JohnT JohnT is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetTrekker View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q91RZko5Gw

In the video of JFK's assassination, I'm surprised by Jackie's reaction. I would think that upon his head getting hit and the spattering of blood, she would recoil in terror, cover mouth with hands and scream, etc. Instead she wheels right around and crawls onto the back of the car to retrieve his scalp...it seems really odd that she even noticed where it went. And of course she opened herself up to being shot as well...I think I would have been hitting the deck, myself. Do first families receive some kind of Secret Service training on what to do in case of attack? Even so, it wouldn't include scalp-retrieval instruction, would it (at least prior to 1963)? Anyone else find it strange?
I'm convinced. Her aberrant behaviour obviously means that she was part of the conspiracy.
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2011, 09:53 AM
Idle Thoughts Idle Thoughts is offline
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I was just reading about this the other day. From her own words: She doesn't remember climbing out the back. She was obviously in shock and just crawling away in a daze (as others in this thread have said).
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  #23  
Old 04-07-2011, 11:41 AM
Omar Little Omar Little is offline
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Considering the number of people whose spouses have been head-shot while riding in the back of a convertible limosine is probably relatively small, I'm not sure anyone could ascribe what a normal response really is.

One might argue that since she is likely the only person this phenomena has happened to, that her actions are what is *normal* and that all future incidents where this happens, would be judged in comparison to her actions as to what is normal.
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  #24  
Old 04-08-2011, 01:15 AM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8162535AAaaUXG Another response saying what I remember her saying. She was reaching for head parts.
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  #25  
Old 04-08-2011, 03:16 AM
chorpler chorpler is offline
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I thought I recently read that the car started accelerating while she was crawling onto the rear of the car, and she was scrabbling to keep her balance as well. Is that accurate, or am I misremembering?

Last edited by chorpler; 04-08-2011 at 03:16 AM..
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  #26  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:41 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzomax View Post
Another response saying what I remember her saying. She was reaching for head parts.
Nowhere in that post does she say she was looking for part of his head.
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