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  #1  
Old 04-25-2011, 02:50 PM
snowmaster snowmaster is offline
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The British Throne, i.e., is there an official one?

St. Edward's chair is just for coronations and doesn't have all of the riches and refinements one would expect in a throne.

There's one in the House of Lords, but that's only for the State Opening of Parliament. (or is it only brought there for that occasion?)

Does Buckingham palace still have a throne room? Do all of the Queen's residences, official and private, have a throne room? Is there one fancy chair that is moved with H.M. or is there a throne in each palace?

Does H.M. typically recieve the PM or meet with her privy council on a throne?

Or has the throne become more of a concept than an object, much like the crown in that there are several of them, but none are in daily use or required for H.M.'s official duties.

Her Majesty the Queen does request and require:
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2011, 03:04 PM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is offline
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There's a throne in the throne room at Buckingham Palace, but as far as I know it doesn't get used much, if at all. (Maybe not even since debutante presentations ended, if they even used it for those.)

At coronations, there's actually a throne separate from St. Edward's Chair. After the crowning, there's an enthronement. (In this painting, you can see both. The Queen is sitting on the throne. It might be the one in the palace now, I'm not sure.)

I think you're right in that it's like the crown.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 04-25-2011 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 04-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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There is not just a single "British throne," as such.

St. Edward's Chair is kept at Westminster Abbey and used in coronations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Edward%27s_Chair

The throne in the House of Lords remains there at all times; only the monarch may sit in it, and typically only during the Queen's Speech:

http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p...on-england.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ech416_afp.jpg
http://www.trooping-the-colour.co.uk...eensspeech.jpg

There is indeed a Throne Room at Buckingham Palace, used for major state occasions such as investitures:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...om-460x276.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...64_636x408.jpg

I don't believe every royal residence has a throne room; I've never heard reference to one at either Sandringham or Balmoral. There is one at Windsor Castle, though: http://www.ukattractions.com/wp-cont...93-300x197.jpg

The Queen doesn't receive the Prime Minister or the Privy Council while enthroned. In fact, the Privy Council meets with her with everyone, including the Queen, standing! That has the benefit of making for a shorter meeting.

A great recent book on this and many other British monarchy topics - highly recommended: http://www.amazon.ca/Year-Queen-Robe...3761823&sr=1-1
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2011, 04:22 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
There is not just a single "British throne," as such.

St. Edward's Chair is kept at Westminster Abbey and used in coronations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Edward%27s_Chair

The throne in the House of Lords remains there at all times; only the monarch may sit in it, and typically only during the Queen's Speech...
She has similiar thrones in the upper houses of every (other) Commonwealth Realm, but it's usually occupied by local Governor-General when s/he opens parliament. I think she also has thrones in the Legislative Councils of the Australian states (not sure about the Canadian provinces, none of those have upper house anymore and some never had an upper house).
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2011, 04:26 PM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is offline
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In most Canadian provinces, the speaker's chair doubles as the throne (I think New Brunswick might be the only exception). However, the Queen isn't a part of the provincial legislatures (as she is a part of the Australian state parliaments and the Canadian federal parliament), so I'm not sure they're really her thrones.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 04-25-2011 at 04:27 PM..
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2011, 05:22 PM
Sunspace Sunspace is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
In most Canadian provinces, the speaker's chair doubles as the throne (I think New Brunswick might be the only exception). However, the Queen isn't a part of the provincial legislatures (as she is a part of the Australian state parliaments and the Canadian federal parliament), so I'm not sure they're really her thrones.
No, no. the Lieutenant-Governors of the provinces stand in for the Queen in the same way that the Governor-General of Canada stands in for the Queen at the federal level. Here's a picture of LG David Onley during his official installation in 2007. That certainly seems to be a throne behind him, but as you said, it could be the Speaker's chair.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:35 PM
A. Gwilliam A. Gwilliam is offline
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The position of the Sovereign in relation to the Canadian provincial has always been a bit odd. The Colonial Office kicked up a fuss at least once over the fact that some of the pre-federation provinces weren't enacting statutes in the Sovereign's name.

I'm curious to know whether the Irish Free State's parliament ever had a throne in it!
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:05 PM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is offline
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Originally Posted by Sunspace View Post
No, no. the Lieutenant-Governors of the provinces stand in for the Queen in the same way that the Governor-General of Canada stands in for the Queen at the federal level.
This isn't really the case. The Queen isn't a component of any of the provincial legislatures, as she is in the federal parliament. It's also not clear that she possesses any executive power at the provincial level. (Wacky Bennett and Ralph Klein both had their attempts to have the Queen perform functions at the provincial level turned down by the federal government on the grounds that it wouldn't have been constitutional.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspace View Post
Here's a picture of LG David Onley during his official installation in 2007. That certainly seems to be a throne behind him, but as you said, it could be the Speaker's chair.
Yes, that's the speaker's chair in the Legislative Assembly (although I guess it's the throne when the LG sits on it, and the speaker's chair when the speaker sits on it).

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 04-25-2011 at 07:05 PM..
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:52 PM
Polycarp Polycarp is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
I don't believe every royal residence has a throne room; I've never heard reference to one at either Sandringham or Balmoral.
It's important to keep in mind that Sandringham and Balmoral are the property of Elizabeth Windsor, wife of Philip Mountbatten, as opposed to the Queen, i.e., personal property of the individual who happens to be monarch, as opposed to crown property of one kind or another. They're regarded as family vacation homes by the Royal Family. Hence: no formal activity except urgent business that won't wait, no formal entertaining, etc. And no throne.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:18 PM
China Guy China Guy is offline
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Is the throne kind of akin to Air Force One? Eg, it's the throne when the monach is sitting there? It may or may not be an "official" throne?
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:23 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Originally Posted by China Guy View Post
Is the throne kind of akin to Air Force One? Eg, it's the throne when the monach is sitting there? It may or may not be an "official" throne?
I've never heard that said. An otherwise-unremarkable chair occupied by Her Majesty is just a chair.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:37 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Here, for instance: http://photos.thefirstpost.co.uk/fea...icoftheday.jpg
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2011, 05:32 AM
APB APB is offline
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The traditional view was that a British monarch had only two thrones - their chair in the House of Lords and the chair used to receive the homage of the peers at their coronation (which, as Lord Feldon says, is not the St Edward's Chair).

What however they also had were 'chairs of state', which were chairs placed on a dias beneath a canopy and in front of a backcloth. Royal palaces almost always had at least one of these and the major palaces had several, each in different rooms. Also, they could also be used elsewhere, including in other peoples' houses. They were used for formal audiences. But not only kings and queens had chairs of state. Other VIPs, such as peers, also had them, although the size and height of the canopy, the length of the backcloth and the number of steps varied according to rank. The best-known surviving non-royal examples are those at Hardwick Hall.

What confuses things is that during his various rebuilding projects, George IV preferred to call such chairs 'thrones' and so Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle and St James's Palace acquired what became known as Throne Rooms. That at Buckingham Palace is now used to house the thrones from the various twentieth-century coronations, with that used by the Queen in 1953 (plus the chair used by Prince Philip on the same occasion) being placed centrestage.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:38 AM
Meurglys Meurglys is offline
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Her official Scottish residence, Holyrood Palace has a throne room, with two rather plain thrones in it.

Edinburgh Castle also has a throne room, but I'm not sure if it has any thrones in it; it's sometimes used as a function room now.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:59 PM
snowmaster snowmaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
A great recent book on this and many other British monarchy topics - highly recommended: http://www.amazon.ca/Year-Queen-Robe...3761823&sr=1-1
Thanks! Any suggestions on how I could get a copy of the documentary in the states? Nothing looking like a DVD release jumped out at me.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:53 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Originally Posted by snowmaster View Post
Thanks! Any suggestions on how I could get a copy of the documentary in the states? Nothing looking like a DVD release jumped out at me.
Ask and ye shall receive: http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index...ductId=3165171
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:40 AM
Northern Piper Northern Piper is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspace
No, no. the Lieutenant-Governors of the provinces stand in for the Queen in the same way that the Governor-General of Canada stands in for the Queen at the federal level.
This isn't really the case. The Queen isn't a component of any of the provincial legislatures, as she is in the federal parliament. It's also not clear that she possesses any executive power at the provincial level. (Wacky Bennett and Ralph Klein both had their attempts to have the Queen perform functions at the provincial level turned down by the federal government on the grounds that it wouldn't have been constitutional.
No, the Queen is a component of each of the provincial Legislatures, and she does have executive powers.

For example, the enactin clauseg of all Saskatchewan statutes is set out in The Interpretation Act, 1995:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Interpretation Act, 1995, s. 37(1)
“Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan, enacts as follows:”.
Other Provinces use similar terminology in their legislation.

The Lieutenant Governor gives the Royal Assent to all bills in the name of Her Majesty, as shown by this extract from Saskatchewan Hansard:

Quote:
ROYAL ASSENT
[At 11:09 His Honour the Lieutenant Governor entered the Chamber, took his seat upon the throne, and gave Royal Assent to the following Bills.]

His Honour: — Pray be seated.

The Speaker: — May it please Your Honour, this Legislative Assembly in its present session has passed several Bills which in the name of the Assembly I present to Your Honour and to which Bills I respectfully request Your Honour‟s assent.

Clerk: — Your Honour, the Bills are as follows:
Bill No. 905 - Bill No. 152 -
Bill No. 151 - Bill No. 158 -
Bill No. 148 - Bill No. 156 -

His Honour: — In Her Majesty‟s name, I assent to these Bills.

The Speaker: — May it please Your Honour, this Legislative Assembly has voted the supplies required to enable the government to defray the expenses of the public service.
In the name of the Assembly I present to Your Honour: Bill No. 163 - The Appropriation Act, 2010 (No. 2) to which I respectfully request Your Honour‟s assent.

His Honour: — In Her Majesty‟s name, I thank the Legislative Assembly, accept their benevolence, and assent to this Bill.
[My underlining]

Similarly, the executive power is vested in Her Majesty, so proclamations issue in Her Majesty's name, Queen's Counsel are appointed in Her Majesty's name, and so on.

Now, Her Majesty may not personally exercise any of those powers, but it's not like the situation of the Australian GovGen - the Lt Govs of the Provinces act in Her Majesty's name.

The status of the Crown as a component of the provincial governments was established in two Privy Council cases from the 19th century. The first was Liquidators of the Maritime Bank of Canada v. The Receiver General of New Brunswick, [1892] AC 437, which held that the Crown was a component part of the provinila legislature and therefore the Government of New Brunswick could exercise all prerogative powers of the Crown in relation to matters within provincial jurisdiction. The second was the Queen's Counsel case (don't have the cite handy) which held that the provincial governments had the power to appoint Queen's Counsel, as part of the powers of the Crown within provincial jurisdiction.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:34 AM
Cunctator Cunctator is offline
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Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
I think she also has thrones in the Legislative Councils of the Australian states
Indeed. I got to sit on the one in the Legislative Council in the Tasmanian Parliament back in February while on a tour of the building.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:52 AM
APB APB is offline
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Originally Posted by Meurglys View Post
Her official Scottish residence, Holyrood Palace has a throne room, with two rather plain thrones in it.

Edinburgh Castle also has a throne room, but I'm not sure if it has any thrones in it; it's sometimes used as a function room now.
And the Scottish usage follows that in England. Holyrood Palace has only had a Throne Room since the refurbishment for George V, having originally had a traditional suite of state apartments with chairs of state etc.

As for Edinburgh Castle, it is about ten years since I last had occasion to visit it and I have only vague recollections that its 'royal apartments' did have a chair of state. But as currently furnished, those rooms are no more than a modern curatorial reconstruction of what they may originally have looked like. All of which is highly speculative as there is considerable uncertainty as to the original layout of that part of the building. Frankly, they're not much more authentic than the 'medieval palace' of the Tower of London or the Great Tower of Dover Castle, although, in fairness, not quite as tacky.
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:03 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is online now
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Originally Posted by Cunctator View Post
Indeed. I got to sit on the one in the Legislative Council in the Tasmanian Parliament back in February while on a tour of the building.
Wouldn't that be lèse majesté ? Guards, seize him !
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