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  #51  
Old 05-13-2011, 05:54 PM
TBG TBG is offline
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Originally Posted by An Gadaí View Post
Is Jack the same Jack of Jack & Jill infamy? Kid gets around.
I dunno, that Jack fell down broke his crown at the top of a hill. He'd probably get a fear of heights from the incident and thus not climb a beanstalk.

Maybe that Jack was the father of this Jack, and Jill was the mother? After Jack Sr. amassed a fortune in alternative water gathering patents, the giant stole his wealth and killed him, the giant not needing alternative water gathering due to living in a cloud.
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  #52  
Old 05-13-2011, 06:12 PM
goodie goodie is offline
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This story makes all kinds of sense once you realize that Jack was originally a girl.

Beanseller is ovary.

Magic bean-- egg.

Jack pre-pubescent girl.

Withered old cow, her mother's lost fertility.

Jackie gets her magic period--ZOOM!!!

She's with the "giant" (you all wish...) man, he uses her up and spits her out, during which time she found some solace from his wife--her vision of her future self--then she's back home, a full fledged woman conscious of her ability to destroy man.

Happy ending!
  #53  
Old 05-14-2011, 08:05 AM
Corner Case Corner Case is offline
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Jack was thrilled after killing the giant. He came to crave the excitement. At first he did little things, usually to frighten girls. Like dropping a spider here and scaring a little girl, and there taking farm animals and watching a shepardess worry. He grew numb to these childish taunts and escalated. He began peeping in windows and grew callous as he baked small birds in pies, but even at this he failed. Driven by hatred of his own ineptitude he would attack anything that reminded him of himself. But even as simple task as pushing another similarly named individual down a hill was a failure. He finally snapped and subverted his entire identity. He would dress up to disguise himself. He donned female garb, but failed as a witch to cook children. He then supplanted his human identity and acted the animal but again failed to subdue a little ginger-haired girl or even some pigs. By this time he realized that he wasn't aging and faced with immortality as an impotent man he snapped completely. He hated women and became - Jack The Ripper. After many killings failed to satisfy him he snapped once again. He became the exact opposite of everything in life that had failed him. He became - Willy Gilligan.
  #54  
Old 05-17-2011, 01:10 PM
tiescore tiescore is offline
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Come to think of it...

Do we really know the Giant existed? OK, so M has J sell the cow for food. J runs into fast talking used car (or used bean) salesman B. J shows M, M kicks J out of the house for being to lazy to drag his loafing kester to town.

J desperate to play his Xbox, wanders over to this crazy rich guys house. Robs him blind, maybe even offs him. Comes home to M and makes up story about beanstalk and G so he looks good and M lets him play the Xbox on the couch for a year.
  #55  
Old 05-17-2011, 06:04 PM
TBG TBG is offline
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The giant is a metaphor. For really tall people.
  #56  
Old 05-17-2011, 06:07 PM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
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Or giant is a metaphor for the giant ego of a dwarf.
  #57  
Old 05-17-2011, 07:11 PM
Malleus, Incus, Stapes! Malleus, Incus, Stapes! is offline
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Originally Posted by mlees View Post
That's it. B is actually G. (Ghandalf.)
My brother wants to know: Grey or White?

It's important.
  #58  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:10 AM
Freddy the Pig Freddy the Pig is offline
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Originally Posted by Sampiro View Post
For starters, why did the peddler, hereinafter referred to as "The Beanseller" or as B, trade beans that would allow an invasion of Giantland for a cow?
Well, why the heck not? What makes you think he knows or cares about Giantland?

From his point of view, the value of his Beanz is that they propogate rapidly and grow very large. Indeed, for a hungry peasant, they'd be a great value, as they'd generate lots more beans the very next day, plus roughage which could be harvested and sold.

The beanseller most likely has a huge supply of these beans, but man does not live by Beanz alone. He trades for beef to diversify his diet.

From this perspective, the story (or at least the first part thereof) is a paean to capitalism and mutual benefit through free and honest trade. From there it wanders off into a paean to theft.
  #59  
Old 05-21-2011, 12:55 AM
moohalee moohalee is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael of Lucan View Post
The beans grow - on the face of it, several plants grow from them, in an intertwined fashion. It is not made clear what is supporting them, as beans need to grow on something like another plant or wire. Implausible indeed.
Several plants grow from them
beans need to grow on something like another plant
what is implausable? the beans are other plants in relation to each other.

Many beans dont need supporting such as broadbeans
  #60  
Old 03-20-2016, 03:01 PM
woodpusher woodpusher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampiro View Post
And since American Indians are known to have cultivated numerous species of bean, perhaps he was a Hopi. Or go further south- an Inca- and this could be a tale of Macchu Picchu brought over by one of the starcraft that periodically comes out of Lake Titicaca to trade with people on the mountains and catch some shows in America, thus adding an extraterrestrial element.
Except that the Giant says, "Fee Fi Fo Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman! Be he live or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread."

This tells me that (a) Giant can differentiate the smell of English blood from other blood, and that (b) he has eaten Englishmen before. Let's assume that Giant is not a member of Homo sapiens - but is able to speak and form sentences. I can understand the Giant wanting to kill the intruder - but to eat him as well? Surely Giant has eaten people before if he's talking like this.
  #61  
Old 03-20-2016, 06:25 PM
TBG TBG is offline
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Originally Posted by TBG View Post
The beanseller is actually Gandalf, and he can't use the beans himself because the Giant has wards up against wizardly invasion.
Don't be stupid, any Giant with the forethought to ward against wizards would surely have wards against magic beanstalks as well.



(i have no memory of posting to this thread... seems a wizard has indeed been at work)
  #62  
Old 03-21-2016, 08:43 AM
The Cabbage Man The Cabbage Man is offline
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The cloud at the top of the beanstalk hides the island of Laputa (Jonathan Swift, Gulliver's Travels), and the goose laying golden eggs is explained by Isaac Asimov in Pate de Foie Gras.

Last edited by The Cabbage Man; 03-21-2016 at 08:48 AM.
  #63  
Old 03-21-2016, 10:49 AM
MacLir MacLir is offline
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As an aside, I recall reading a sci-fi book that took the position that the story of Jack was a recounting in terms relevant to pre-technical peasants of an encounter with several humanoid races in conflict.

As I recall it (LONG time ago)

The "seeds" were (nanotech?) anchor points - planted in Jack's field because it was the right place on the right world - which created an antenna tower to open a hyperspatial gate. This opened to the stronghold of the Giant (member of another humanoid race). Jack is drafted into participating. I think the essential mission was rescue of a kidnapped "woman" who was a musician who played an instrument by direct neural connection - the "singing harp."

General searches and a search via Barnes and Noble fail to turn up the book, which I recall as being titled "Beanstalk." Anybody else recall this one?
  #64  
Old 03-21-2016, 12:32 PM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
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Y'all are over-thinking it, even back 5 years ago.

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. The beanseller himself was duped. He traded something good (maybe another cow?) for "magic" beans. Then later he figured he had been duped (maybe his wife hit him on the head with a rolling pin, to knock some sense into him.). So he did what anyone would do - suckered someone else.

Unknown to him, they really were magic (no quotes) beans.

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 03-21-2016 at 12:34 PM.
  #65  
Old 03-21-2016, 01:21 PM
furryman furryman is offline
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Ultimately the story is about luck. In this case B is actually a Djinn who decides to mess with Jack by giving him magic beans.
Alternately the magic beans were drugs which Jack ate causing him to hallucinate.
  #66  
Old 03-21-2016, 06:52 PM
NoCoolUserName NoCoolUserName is offline
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I'm not nearly as clever as y'all. So I'll use this:

“And then Jack chopped down what was the world's last beanstalk, adding murder and ecological terrorism to the theft, enticement, and trespass charges already mentioned, and all the giant's children didn't have a daddy anymore. But he got away with it and lived happily ever after, without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done...which proves that you can be excused for just about anything if you are a hero, because no one asks inconvenient questions.”

― Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
  #67  
Old 03-22-2016, 03:26 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
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Then there's the "Into The Woods" version.

The bean seller is a baker whose family has a curse placed on it to produce no children, because the baker's father stole vegetables from his neighbor's garden, the neighbor being a witch. In order to lift the curse, the baker must obtain four specific items to match a spell. One of the items is "a cow as white as milk." Jack, a simple boy, owns a cow named Milky White, who is solid white, but Milky White is old and no longer produces milk. Jack's mother sends him to sell the cow for much more that it is worth and not mention how old it is or that it doesn't produce milk, whereupon Jack runs into the baker. The baker, not having any money on him, does happen to have five beans that were given to him by a stranger, that is really his father whom he never knew. The beans are from the witch's garden, and thus magical, but the baker doesn't know that. However, he needs Milky White, and so he coincidentally tells Jack the beans are magic, like any con man. Thus, the baker tries to con Jack but his lie is actually true, and Jack (following his mother's orders) tries to con the baker, but the baker doesn't need a healthy cow or a cow that has milk, it just has to be white. Therefore, they both actually got what they thought they were getting.

Then lots of other events unfold.

In this version, Jack steals the giant's golden-egg laying chicken for his mother, then returns and steals the singing harp. The giant tries to retrieve his property, whereupon he falls to his death and smashes Jack's house.

The giant's wife then comes searching for the lad that killed her husband, and many deaths ensue. Plus lots of destruction. Finally, Jack, the baker, Cinderella, and Red Riding Hood (yes, their stories are part of the tale) cooperate and pull off a plan that kills the giant' wife, saving Jack.

It's not a happily ever after kind of story.
  #68  
Old 03-22-2016, 03:49 PM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
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You need to get this movie: Jack and the Beanstalk: The Real Story.

"Jack Robinson is a wealthy business man with no time for anything but work. However, a family curse is looming over him - no man in the Robinson line ever lives past the age of thirty. With his upcoming birthday appears the remains of literally giant skeleton and a mysterious woman who claims to have once known the giant. Jack decides to go with her to another world where all is revealed to him along with the story of his ancestor, the original Jack and the Beanstalk. In order to save his own life and the world of the giants, Jack must right the wrongs of the past and return the magical harp and goose that lays the golden eggs to their rightful home."

In the movie they show Jack actually taking 3 days to climb all the way up (he eats beans and drinks water found in the leaves).
  #69  
Old 03-24-2016, 08:27 AM
MacLir MacLir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLir View Post
As an aside, I recall reading a sci-fi book that took the position that the story of Jack was a recounting in terms relevant to pre-technical peasants of an encounter with several humanoid races in conflict.

As I recall it (LONG time ago)

The "seeds" were (nanotech?) anchor points - planted in Jack's field because it was the right place on the right world - which created an antenna tower to open a hyperspatial gate. This opened to the stronghold of the Giant (member of another humanoid race). Jack is drafted into participating. I think the essential mission was rescue of a kidnapped "woman" who was a musician who played an instrument by direct neural connection - the "singing harp."

General searches and a search via Barnes and Noble fail to turn up the book, which I recall as being titled "Beanstalk." Anybody else recall this one?
Found it! It was "Beanstalk" by John Rackham. I found it by recalling the cover art - Kelly Freas - and searching the cover image.
  #70  
Old 03-24-2016, 06:27 PM
P-man P-man is offline
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In Kate and the Beanstalk (by the author of the Magic Treehouse series, for those of you with kids) the guy who sold the beans was actually a fairy godmother in disguise. The giant had killed Kate's father and stole his hen, coins, and singing harp. It was all a test to see if she was worthy of the inheritance. Could this be close to the original story?
  #71  
Old 03-29-2016, 04:12 AM
KKKK KKKK is offline
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Originally Posted by Sampiro View Post
Presumably everybody knows the story, though there are different versions. Jack and the Beanstalk has more unanswered and half told component stories than any tale since the Book of Exodus.

For starters, why did the peddler, hereinafter referred to as "The Beanseller" or as B, trade beans that would allow an invasion of Giantland for a cow? Not even a nice cow, a cow owned by starving peasants. I have theories. Perhaps "these are magic beans" was a sales pitch that just coincidentally happened to be right, or the Beanseller was honest and really knew they were magic beans. Occams Razor would imply the latter- what are the chances that if he was making up something about the beans to talk a kid out of a cow that the elaborate infeasible tale he made up would just happen to be true?

So assuming that B knew they were beans that would sprout fast and strong enough to allow a not particularly bright boy (or was he? But I digress) to enter Giantland, a place with such insufficient defenses that even a boy could plunder it, why doesn't B just plant them himself, loot the Giant's castle, steal the gold, and use a mere fraction of it to buy a whole herd of cows and still have enough left over to buy a high rise pied a terre, a suburban mansion and a vacation house and still have money left over?

Either,

1- The Beanseller has no interest in money

OR

2- He somehow isn't able to conduct the raid himself

If he has no interest in money, why does he have interest in a puny cow?

My theory: the Beanseller has a personal beef (no cow pun intended) with the giant but is unable to invade Giantland himself. He wants the Giant dead, but needs a patsy.

OR

He plans to rob Jack. But that presents so many other problems I'm going to ignore it for now. Perhaps somebody else will take it.
Wasn't there a version somewhere that the beanseller and the fairy (who guided Jack at the top of the beanstalk) were both friends of Jack's father? And the giant had actually murdered Jack's father and seized his wealth, and that the beanseller and the fairy were using this roundabout route to help Jack get back his own property?
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