More reasons to reduce your fat intake

[Zyada]

High-Fat Diets Linked to Poorer Brain Function

(Remember though: a low fat diet won't help if you're eating more than you need to)

[Clucky]

Low-carb benefits

Hate to disagree with trained researchers working with rats and everything, but too many carbs can be detrimental to your body.

The above link is about studies involving humans on the Atkins low-carb diet. I've been on the diet for more than 10 months, and I've lost 35 pounds and feel much better than I ever did trying to eat low-fat. I have bacon and eggs covered in cheese almost every morning. I eat lots of meats and veggies and some nuts the rest of the day, and I feel much better. Plus, I take vitamins regularly, and that's really helped. I'd lose more weight if I'd exercise, but that's going to have to wait until the baby gets a little older.

The high-carb diet failed. Look at what's happened to the increase in obesity ever since nutritionists began preaching more grains. Pasta and bread will be the death of you. Fat is a normal part of a human's diet.

Now ends my pro-low-carb diatribe.

[Clucky]

Low-carb benefits

Hate to disagree with trained researchers working with rats and everything, but too many carbs can be detrimental to your body.

The above link is about studies involving humans on the Atkins low-carb diet. I've been on the diet for more than 10 months, and I've lost 35 pounds and feel much better than I ever did trying to eat low-fat. I have bacon and eggs covered in cheese almost every morning. I eat lots of meats and veggies and some nuts the rest of the day, and I feel much better. Plus, I take vitamins regularly, and that's really helped. I'd lose more weight if I'd exercise, but that's going to have to wait until the baby gets a little older.

The high-carb diet failed. Look at what's happened to the increase in obesity ever since nutritionists began preaching more grains. Pasta and bread will be the death of you. Fat is a normal part of a human's diet.

Now ends my pro-low-carb diatribe.

[porcupine]

I have been on the Atkins' plan for over two years. I lost about 60 lbs and have been maintaining that loss for over a year.

[Purd Werfect]

It's important to remember that there are different types of fats. Some have been shown to be healthy, while others have been shown to be detrimental to good health. Good ones include olive oil and canola oil, as well as oils from deep sea fish. The ocean fish oils include omega 3 fats which, according to an increasing number of studies, offer both physical and mental health benefits. You can look here and here for more information on omega3 benefits.

[Wozzo]

It's not my fat intake that's the problem; it's my fat exhaust.

[eirroc]

I started the Atkin's Diet two weeks ago and its working great. I used to think it was really unhealthy, eating lots of fatty things, but after reading the book I realised it makes perfect sense. You just eat what your ancestors ate before the invention of junk food ect, and keep your carb intake down. Glad to hear Clucky and Porcupine, that your on it and losing/maintaning weight. Gives me that bit more willpower, (not that its exactly a hard diet!) I'v tried the low fat diets, and I just felt washed out and hungry. Just my opinion of course.

[Clucky]

Originally posted by eirroc
I started the Atkin's Diet two weeks ago and its working great. ... Glad to hear Clucky and Porcupine, that your on it and losing/maintaning weight. Gives me that bit more willpower, (not that its exactly a hard diet!) I'v tried the low fat diets, and I just felt washed out and hungry. Just my opinion of course.

Eirroc, here's a bulletin board where you can go to receive advice from longtime Atkins dieters. Good luck. If you stick with it, you won't regret it.

Purd Werfect, please cite a study that has shown scientifically that fat is detrimental when part of a low-carb diet. (This thread might be headed for IMHO.)

[Zyada]

Y'all tell me how few of these things y'all stopped eating when you went on the Atkin's diet.

Pre-packaged snacks - candy bars, chips, cookies, soda pops.

Fast food, especially burgers and fries

Fries, period.

Pasta with cream sauces

Baked potatoes with sour cream, butter, bacon, chives and cheese
Mashed potatoes with gravy

Desserts - cakes, brownies, ice cream

Donuts, honey buns, muffins, bagels with cream cheese

Battered & fried foods - fried chicken, chicken fried steak, fried calamari

In addition, have you stopped...

Eating for reasons other than hunger - how easy is it to get a snack on the Atkin's diet? If you aren't already prepared?

Skipping breakfast

Eating meals with no vegetables, or just a slice of lettuce.


The fact is most of our bad eating habits involve carbs and fat. Note also that when you fry starches, they soak up the grease like a sponge. Atkin's may work because you cut out carbs, but then again, it could be working because you've stopped a lot of bad eating habits.

Most people do not need to diet at all. In fact, most people don't need to lose weight - if you want to look like a super-model, realize that most if not all of them are anorectic.

I would like to challenge anyone who is considering Atkin's (or any other diet) to do this: keep a diary for one week of everything you eat and why you ate it - were you really hungry, or were you bored/stressed/depressed. Then look at what bad habits you can change and how many calories or fat grams you can save just by

Not eating when you're not hungry, or keeping low-calorie, high fiber snacks around if you have to snack. Eat only the things you really, really want.
Choosing to cook at home, instead of fast food (compare your absolute favorite meal to a Big Mac, fries and soda sometime)
Sharing a dessert, or eating a smaller portion.
Adding one vegetable or fruit a day.
Switch to high-fiber carbs that aren't fried or covered in grease.
Eating breakfast - bacon may be fatty, but it's better for you than a soda pop and a bagel with cream cheese or overeating at lunch. I've often heard to eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and supper like a pauper. If you eat the things you like most at breakfast, you have all day to work them off, but if you eat heavy at supper, all that food is being handled when your metabolism is at its lowest.



Clucky - the problem with your research is that it only covers the first four months. Diets are for life - if you can't sustain what you are doing now for the rest of your life, you will just gain the weight back and then some when you go off this diet. And the secondary research is from Atkin's for chrissakes. Atkins makes major money from selling his book - any research he or his center is biased and very suspect.

The research I posted is only one of a large body of research showing at least a correlation between high-fat diets

[quote]The high-carb diet failed. Look at what's happened to the increase in obesity ever since nutritionists began preaching more grains. Pasta and bread will be the death of you. [quote]

And in the same time Clinton was in office, the stock market has reached new heights, the internet has taken off, SUV's have taken over the road,

And fast food restaurants have added value meals, then super-sized value meals, restaurant meals have become larger, people eat more often at restaurants (and the choices at restaurants seem to be either diet or as fatty as they can make it), consumption of ice cream has gone up per capita esp. premium ice creams. And people are getting less and less exercise.

Pasta and bread will not kill you (unless you're diabetic). Pasta with alfredo sauce, bagels with cream cheese, potato chips and french fries will.

Fat is a normal part of a human's diet.

Not in the quantities we eat. First of all, the meat we eat is much fattier than wild game. Beef, on average gets 60% of its calories from fat. Venison gets 17% of its calories from fat! Which do you think primitives ate? In addition, primitive people ate any plant material that wouldn't kill them (and would give them some calories), including whole grains, roots, leaves, seeds, fruit and berries - all of which get most of their calories from carbohydrates. Primitive people did not have the luxury that we have of extracting the oil from plant material or overfed beef to fry their food. What is the proportion? I don't know, and frankly I wouldn't trust anyone but an anthropologist for the information.


--Missing close italics tag added--

[Edited by UncleBeer on 02-23-2001 at 08:57 AM]

[Clucky]

Okay, Zyada, here we go. I didn't want to get into a whole thing, but let's do it.

First off, the laundry list of items you mentioned at the beginning of your post? Haven't eaten any of those foods since on Atkins (except for vegetables.) I lost 15 pounds in a matter of several weeks. Try this on any other diet and see if you get the same results. One of the great things about this diet is the fat satiates you. You don't feel like eating between meals.

I would like to challenge anyone who is considering Atkin's (or any other diet) to do this: keep a diary for one week of everything you eat and why you ate it - were you really hungry, or were you bored/stressed/depressed. Then look at what bad habits you can change and how many calories or fat grams you can save just by Not eating when you're not hungry, or keeping low-calorie, high fiber snacks around if you have to snack. Eat only the things you really, really want.

Sounds easy. Why do so many people have trouble doing this? Those high-carb items passed off as low-fat aren't offereing many nutrients. In fact, many people are addicted to carbs, and feeding the addiction doesn't satisfy your hunger. By the way, processed, refined flours and sugars, often found in low-fat items, have no nutritional value and are detrimental to your body.

Clucky - the problem with your research is that it only covers the first four months. Diets are for life - if you can't sustain what you are doing now for the rest of your life, you will just gain the weight back and then some when you go off this diet.

You're right about a couple things. More research is needed. The study is continuing. And those of us who live the Atkins way know we have to do it for life. If we quit this way of life, we will go back to our overweight, unhappy selves. (I was 215 pounds, at 5-foot-7, and now I'm about 180. I can bend to tie my shoe while breathing now. It's great.)

Pasta and bread will not kill you (unless you're diabetic). Pasta with alfredo sauce, bagels with cream cheese, potato chips and french fries will.

I ask you to cut these high-carb items out of your diet, substitute low-carb items instead, and see how you feel. That's all I'm saying. This diet truly has helped me. I am more regular and feel better than since I was a kid. There is little to no nutritional value in bread and pasta. And, if you eat bread, even pro-carb nutritionists will tell you to only eat whole-grain breads.

First of all, the meat we eat is much fattier than wild game. Beef, on average gets 60% of its calories from fat. Venison gets 17%[/] of its calories from fat! Which do you think primitives ate? In addition, primitive people ate any plant material that wouldn't kill them (and would give them some calories), including whole grains, roots, leaves, seeds, fruit and berries - all of which get most of their calories from carbohydrates. Primitive people did not have the luxury that we have of extracting the oil from plant material or overfed beef to fry their food. What is the proportion? I don't know, and frankly I wouldn't trust anyone but an anthropologist for the information.

Whole grains are acceptable in certain amounts on this diet . Seeds and berries are allowed in limited amounts. Other fruits, once you reach your goal, are generally allowed. The reason carbs are limited is you have to overcorrect the poor eating habits that the food pyramid has, in part, caused.

I do agree that fast food is not good. But, it's not because of the fatty burgers. It's the carb-laden french fries, buns, apple pies, flour tortillas, etc.

[Zyada]

"Haven't eaten any of those foods since on Atkins "

I was asking you about before you got on the diet - my point being that you may have fixed a lot of bad habits by getting on Atkins that have nothing to do with carbs, and therefore your success does not necessarily validate the Atkins theory.

And I lost 8 pounds in the first week of the first diet I went on, and 15 pounds in 3 months. It was a weight watcher type. What no one told me was that I would have to do it the rest of my life, so I got caught in the diet trap.

"Sounds easy. Why do so many people have trouble doing this? "

Because no one is being told to do this. You don't sell books by saying, "Eat right, don't snack, exercise and you'll be healthier and might lose weight" (That's what Mom says) You sell books by saying "Here's what's wrong with you, do my diet and you'll lose lot's of weight and look like a model!" People want results now. By the way, my suggestions come from one obscure magazine article, and one book: "Feeding on Dreams"


"But, it's not because of the fatty burgers. It's the carb-laden french fries, buns, apple pies, flour tortillas, etc."

According to Dr. Atkins. But those items are also excessively high in fat, so it's kinda hard to separate the two, eh?

[BunnyGirl]

This site http://onhealth.webmd.com/conditions...C51876_1_1.asp (sorry, don't know how to do that "Look here" thing yet!) has some interesting information regarding the high-protein/low-carb diets.

Just some food for thought. I'm not denying that you can lose weight on it, but how healthy is it to continue it for long periods of time? Plus, how are you getting the health benefits that only some vegetables can provide (antioxidants, etc)?

[Clucky]

Originally posted by Zyada
"Haven't eaten any of those foods since on Atkins "

I was asking you about before you got on the diet - my point being that you may have fixed a lot of bad habits by getting on Atkins that have nothing to do with carbs, and therefore your success does not necessarily validate the Atkins theory.

One of the parts of this diet that people don't understand is that it's ketogenic. I'm not going to try to explain this concept; you'd have to research it. But, basically, you're burning fat by reducing carb intake. That's why you lose weight more quickly than on other diets. And, the fact that I quit these items shouldn't be an indictment of the diet, but support for it. You get rid of your addiction to carbs (and actually go through carb withdrawal for a few days). Besides, I was eating low-fat candies, pasta and bread for the most part before this diet. That's what I cut out. I had stayed away from candy with fat in it.

Furthermore, your experience with Weight Watchers is why lots of people go on the Atkins Diet, Zyada. They get tired of yo-yo dieting. The Atkins Diet says right up front, this is a way of life. You eat like this forever if you want to keep the results.

"Sounds easy. Why do so many people have trouble doing this? "

Because no one is being told to do this. You don't sell books by saying, "Eat right, don't snack, exercise and you'll be healthier and might lose weight" (That's what Mom says)

This is exactly what Atkins says. His theory on eating right is just different than yours and many nutritionists who long ago decided that eating more fat means gaining more fat. I speak from personal experience that his diet is better than the low-fat alternative. You can lose weight both ways, but the low-carb way is better for your body, IMHO, and easier to maintain.

You diet how you want. But Atkins offers a way of life with good foods that don't contain unhealthy, processed flours and sugars. That study I referenced shouldn't be totally discredited just because it's only four months old.

[eirroc]

Thanks for the link Clucky I'll defenitly check that out, I was just saying to my mom the other day its a shame there's no "class" where you can get support and advice. In return here's a link to a cite where you can order lots of low carb snacks ect. I dont know where your from so maybe you can get this stuff but I havent seen any over here in the UK.
http://search.altavista.com/r?r=http...rbdieters.com/

[Purd Werfect]

Originally posted by Clucky

Purd Werfect, please cite a study that has shown scientifically that fat is detrimental when part of a low-carb diet. (This thread might be headed for IMHO.)
[/b]

Clucky, I was unable to find a cite which focuses scientifically on the different types of fats in conjunction with a low carbohydrate diet, so I concede that my comments are based on conjecture in this instance. My comments on fats are from studies done on the varying types without regards to specific diet. In those studies, the varying types of fats have been shown to affect the bodies production of cholesterol, with monounsaturated fats having the affect of lowering the bodies production of harmful cholesterol, while at the same time helping to remove excess LDL cholesterol from the blood vessels. I don't suggest that one should go low fat and low carbohydrate at the same time, I just consider it important for myself to most often choose the fats which have been shown to be most beneficial.

[Clucky]

Originally posted by BunnyGirl
Just some food for thought. I'm not denying that you can lose weight on it, but how healthy is it to continue it for long periods of time? Plus, how are you getting the health benefits that only some vegetables can provide (antioxidants, etc)?

I eat more veggies now than I ever did before this diet. Vegetables are encouraged as the main source of carbs on Atkins. That's all I can tell you. I feel healthier, too.

[kanicbird]

I have been on Atkins, and the maintance version, for about 6-7 years. It is the only way to eat for me. I have perfected eating out.
Burgers - toss the buns, no ketchup - either go for the chepiest ones and get 3-5 or go for the double or triple pattie
fried chicken - knock off the bread
boston market rules!!!
breakfast - omlets - tell them leave off the potatoes and tost and add an extra egg (most will make the sub)

The best advice is to ask for what you want and tell them not to bring you anything you don't - not having it will prevent temptation.

Also a slogan I invented to help ward off the carb bug is 'carbohydrates are free' meaning that even if they are giving it away - it's really worthless. And if you think about it, if you go to a meeting, confrence, there will almost always be some free carbs. Then when they actually charge for them, I think that they are trying to sell me something that really cost them nothing and should be free.

ordering water for your drink is a great money saver too

[Zyada]

Clucky - please be aware that I am not trying to stop you from following Atkins diet. You have found a diet that works for you and that's great.

Here are my points:

• Atkin's theory of ketogenics contradicts current accepted knowledge of human physiology. And the contradiction is done with the zeal of a fundamentalist arguing with evolutionary theory. This waves a red warning flag to me that this is Bad Science.
• Instead of following the usual methods of getting his theory accepted by the scientific community, he writes a book that makes a great deal of money. This is also an indication of Bad Science. It also taints any research he does. Now, he is selling specialized food for his diet.
• He paints carbohyrdates as evil, poisonous and unnecessary (unless they are accompanied by critical vitamins). Yet, there are entire cultures who eat a vegetarian diet, and above average body fat is not endemic to these cultures. However, eskimos traditionally have an almost no-carb diet. OTOH, nutritionists admit that fat is a legitimate part of diet, and even necessary - just not in the quantities our culture consumes it.
• Individual stories of success at losing weight on the diet does not validate ketogenics. As they say in GQ, the plural of anecdote is not data.
• Your success at losing weight does not validate ketogenics. As you so gracefully sidesteped, you have changed some if not several habits that are well known to impact body weight that do not require ketogenics to explain. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you are consuming fewer calories and less fat than you were before.
• Your success at staying on the diet does not validate ketogenics. "In two separate studies … the results showed that the majority of successful weight losers had created their own plans."* Your success can easily be attributable to the possibility that Atkin's is close to what you would have done if you had made up your own plan.
• Your acceptable cholesterol levels do not prove that the Atkins diet doesn't affect cholesterol. It is well known that different people are affected by their diet in different ways
• Atkins completely contradicts the recommendations of American Institute for Cancer Research, American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, and the Mayo Clinic
• Atkins takes the statistic that people are getting fatter and infers a causal relationship between that and the recommendations of the nutritionists. However, people are eating more fat, more protein, more food period, and exercising less. It is invalid to draw a causal link - just because someone's preaching hellfire doesn't mean people stop sinning. BTW, usually such a broad inference is another sign of Bad Science
• The problem with the study you cited is not that it is only four months old, it is that the people in the study had only been on the diet for four months. Nearly anyone can stay on almost any diet for 4 months and lose some weight. Show me a study where 100 percent of the participants stay on the diet for two years, and then I might be impressed. Nor is 4 months long enough for a (fairly reasonable)diet to have any appreciable effect on cholesterol, cancer or other dietary related diseases. Dietary studies usually cover years - often 10 or more.

The fact is, the food pyramid is based on years of research. Atkin's diet is based on the theories of one person who is not even a researcher - only a person who was trained to diagnose and treat illness.

_{Sorry for bringing this up again, I just feel like Atkin's is spreading ignorance}