Was Green Lantern too "Comic Booky" for general audiences?

[Disposable Hero]

Originally Posted by Enderw24

So I've never read a single comic involving the Green Lantern and I just watched the movie.
It was about what I expected based upon the trailer: sub-mediocre.

24 hours ago, the guy has no clue that aliens exist and now he's inducted into the Lantern Corps. The entirety of his training consists of
1) One guy teaching him to fly
2) One drill sergeant throwing rocks at him for two minutes
3) the leader berating him because he's a stupid human and not worthy of the suit.

I got the impression that that was just the beginning of his training but he cut it short by quitting. In a total fanwank I imagine that at the end of the movie he returned to the alien planet to complete his training which is probably a weeks or months long military or police style experience (what are the Green Lanterns except cops with magic rings and not guns?).

Originally Posted by Enderw24

Oh and were we supposed to have forgotten that the Green Lantern killed three guys just because they were pissed for losing their jobs, which really was completely Hal's fault anyway? I mean, he killed them. But it's cool because the Green Lantern's a good guy, right? Except...they're totally not.

In the real world what he did would probably have killed them but in comic-book physics they probably woke up and walked away later with nothing more than a mildly sore head.

But yeah, I agree, that was an eyebrow raising scene for me as well.

Originally Posted by astro

Also, I think there is the issue that the GL power set (ie willpower mediated light based ring constructs) is about the least emotionally involving superpower for a layman non-comic fan to relate to. Eyebeams, super strength, super speed, flight etc. all of these have an emotional physical immediacy to them vs "design stuff with a magic ring".

Well I'm not a comic book fan and just picked up the Green Lantern story world by cultural osmosis but the power ring always seemed to me to be a very cool idea, unlike the others its uses are virtually unlimited just depending on if you have the imagination and willpower to put them into effect.

And unlike the others its a power anyone can use, Green Lanterns are nothing more than ordinary people gifted with an extraordinary device and opportunity, they aren't inherently special like most of the other superheros.

My first experience of the GL character was Jon Stewart in the Justice League cartoon, I found him interesting and 'believeable' as a superhero and as a person, but he would probably not be over the top enough to carry a GL movie based around him. He was quite straight-laced, somber and military minded and played off well against the irreverent and cocky Flash in the cartoon. But people would probably just consider him to be boring...

Yeah, I like the GL concept, you can tell.

edited to add I thought the Jon Stewart GL in the Justice League cartoon had a believable relationship with the Hawkgirl character as well, you could really see those pair falling in love.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by Disposable Hero

My first experience of the GL character was Jon Stewart in the Justice League cartoon, I found him interesting and 'believeable' as a superhero and as a person, but he would probably not be over the top enough to carry a GL movie based around him. He was quite straight-laced, somber and military minded and played off well against the irreverent and cocky Flash in the cartoon. But people would probably just consider him to be boring...

(bolding mine)

Well, in the comics he's personally responsible for completely destroying (as in blowing them up real good) two planets...

[levdrakon]

That attack by the three guys against a lone Hal, besides being a bit contrived, was bad enough I thought the guys got what they deserved and I don't remember thinking they were killed. Very roughly tossed aside, but not killed.

They deserved what they got. Hal didn't know how the ring worked yet at that point, did he?

[Disposable Hero]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

(bolding mine)

Well, in the comics he's personally responsible for completely destroying (as in blowing them up real good) two planets...

Whats the story behind that?

That is pretty over the top but I meant more as in he's fairly subdued in personality. I do remember reading somewhere how he managed to exceed his rings power limits when he tried to put a planet back together, are the two events related?

[Krokodil]

Not sure who Ryan Reynolds' fan base is. I've always been a little put off by his oozing manner, conspicuously plucked eyebrows and enormous forehead; I've never looked at him and thought "I bet he'd make a great superhero!" Also, they threw too much of the character's history and baggage into the movie.

Iron Man, by contrast, let us discover the character gradually and see his world the way Tony Stark saw it. Iron Man !! got bogged down by too much, and the film hurt for it. But rarely are a character and an actor as well-matched as Tony Stark and Robert Downey, Jr., or as poorly matched as Hal Jordan and Ryan Reynolds.

[Bryan Ekers]

In retrospect, they shoulda gone the Men in Black route (I have not yet seen the third film). Will Smith is the stereotypical movie cool character in the first MiB - he's sassy and too cool for authority and such - but he's also ridiculously out of his depth when all the alien stuff hits. Hal Jordan could have been like that, the mavericky womanizing pilot and a big fish in what he'll discover is a very small pond, suddenly getting roped into an organization where he's just the fucking new guy and everyone around him (especially his K-like trainer, Sinestro) has a much better handle on what's going on, leaving Jordan to just sort of bumble through.

It needed more recurring bits of sneering contempt ("You're the replacement for Abin Sur?") and while Jordan does okay dealing with petty Earth thugs, it's obvious that it'll be years before he can handle anything cosmic.

Overall, the animated Green Lantern: First Flight was a better movie, in large part, I think, because

SPOILER:

Sinestro is the putative "bad guy", but his motives are understandable, if not sympathetic, at least at first.

[Krokodil]

Originally Posted by Disposable Hero

Whats the story behind that?

That is pretty over the top but I meant more as in he's fairly subdued in personality. I do remember reading somewhere how he managed to exceed his rings power limits when he tried to put a planet back together, are the two events related?

Cosmic Odyssey. The Justice League is forced to cooperate with Darkseid to prevent a string of planets from being destroyed, since if any two of these particular planets go, it's game over for the universe. John (NOT Jon!) Stewart and Martian Manhunter are charged with protecting a planet we'd never heard of. Stewart charges in on his own, preventing Manhunter from participating, and the bad guy defeats him by painting the world-destroying bomb yellow, a tactic that wouldn't have worked on Manhunter.

Not sure what the second planet was, but he subsequently administered a planet called Mosaic, a patchwork of hundreds of diverse planets, each piece retaining the characteristics of its home planet. Maybe it blew up, too.

[Disposable Hero]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

In retrospect, they shoulda gone the Men in Black route (I have not yet seen the third film). Will Smith is the stereotypical movie cool character in the first MiB - he's sassy and too cool for authority and such - but he's also ridiculously out of his depth when all the alien stuff hits. Hal Jordan could have been like that, the mavericky womanizing pilot and a big fish in what he'll discover is a very small pond, suddenly getting roped into an organization where he's just the fucking new guy and everyone around him (especially his K-like trainer, Sinestro) has a much better handle on what's going on, leaving Jordan to just sort of bumble through.

It needed more recurring bits of sneering contempt ("You're the replacement for Abin Sur?") and while Jordan does okay dealing with petty Earth thugs, it's obvious that it'll be years before he can handle anything cosmic.

Overall, the animated Green Lantern: First Flight was a better movie, in large part, I think, because

SPOILER:

Sinestro is the putative "bad guy", but his motives are understandable, if not sympathetic, at least at first.

That does sound like an interesting way to approach it. I kind of got the impression that they threw everything into the Green Lantern movie because they thought they might not got the opportunity to make another one. Unfortunately it may have been a self-fufilling prophecy.

Is the animated film worth picking up? Its been years since I watched the cartoons.

Originally Posted by Krokodil

John (NOT Jon!) Stewart and Martian Manhunter are charged with protecting a planet we'd never heard of.

Pfffttt, so I spelled his name wrong, what's he going to do about it?

Thanks for the explanation.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by Disposable Hero

Whats the story behind that?

Originally Posted by Krokodil

Cosmic Odyssey. The Justice League is forced to cooperate with Darkseid to prevent a string of planets from being destroyed, since if any two of these particular planets go, it's game over for the universe. John (NOT Jon!) Stewart and Martian Manhunter are charged with protecting a planet we'd never heard of. Stewart charges in on his own, preventing Manhunter from participating, and the bad guy defeats him by painting the world-destroying bomb yellow, a tactic that wouldn't have worked on Manhunter.

Huh, I'd never actually read the story, I've only heard back-references to it. So he basically destroyed the planet through negligence rather than intent.

The second planet was

SPOILER:

Mogo itself, the sentient planet who was also a Green Lantern. He'd been corrupted by the big bad guy, and with him on the bad guy's side the GL home planet of Oa and the entire Corps was going to be destroyed. Stewart made the call, and before anybody could stop him he harnessed the available power and blew Mogo to smithereens. Quite deliberately.

(spoilerboxed because it was fairly recent)

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Disposable Hero

Is the animated film worth picking up? Its been years since I watched the cartoons.

Oh, absolutely. The DC Universe Animated Original series is pretty hit-or-miss, but they're generally better, I've found, than any of DC's live-action movies.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

Huh, I'd never actually read the story

Sonuvacrap, after clicking your link I realized I had read the story, and it was in my collection (well, it was until my entire collection was stolen a couple months ago). I guess it was just long ago enough that I'd forgotten. I collected comics from 1987 to '91, and then picked it up again in 2004, so I had that long gap where I never saw references to that event, and when I started collecting again and saw John talking about it, I assumed it was something that happened during the gap.

[Quimby]

Originally Posted by astro

In that respect I think GL is probably one of the harder characters to get people to wrap their heads around in a short form drama like a movie.

But it doesn't have to be. GL can be summed up pretty easy for someone unfamiliar with the comics: Space Cop. Had they played this angle up more they could have made a better, albeit possibly less faithful movie.

What I danced around in my OP all those months ago was while GL looks fine on a comic page and in a cartoon, he looks silly in live action. They would have made a better movie if they stuck with the core of the character but made the necessary changes to make the movie better.

[Max Torque]

The lack of a true villain really hurt this movie. Heroes need to do heroic things, like stop a murdering carjacker (Spider-Man) or save some poor villagers from terrorists (Iron Man). When you scale the enemy up too much, it becomes less personal and less identifiable. Sure, you can say that a big black cloud is going to destroy the world, and go fight it in space or whatever, but that doesn't make people care on an individual basis.

What heroic things did GL do? He punched out some normal guys who were beating him up for being a jackass (which he was), and he made a magic hot rod to rescue like four people from a helicopter crash. Yay. Even the freakin' Ghost Rider at least stopped a mugging.

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

Originally Posted by Max Torque

The lack of a true villain really hurt this movie. Heroes need to do heroic things, like stop a murdering carjacker (Spider-Man) or save some poor villagers from terrorists (Iron Man). When you scale the enemy up too much, it becomes less personal and less identifiable. Sure, you can say that a big black cloud is going to destroy the world, and go fight it in space or whatever, but that doesn't make people care on an individual basis.

What heroic things did GL do? He punched out some normal guys who were beating him up for being a jackass (which he was), and he made a magic hot rod to rescue like four people from a helicopter crash. Yay. Even the freakin' Ghost Rider at least stopped a mugging.

And I think the green hot rod scene was way overdone as well, which is an unfortunate side effect of having CGI so easily available now. I think there could have been a nice dramatic moment where the helicopter is falling and the passengers are screaming and then they realize they're OK, then pull back to see that a giant baseball mitt caught them. Instead we watch the wild ride which caused way more damage than it ever needed to, even if Jordan was still learning how to use the ring. Movies need big action set pieces to offset all the boring standing around and talking, but now we have these bigger wilder things that you can do with computers but that doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.

And I think you're right about the spacecloud, too -- it may have been a good idea to save Paralax for the sequel. Have GL win something close to home for the movie's denouement and become the hero. Then he can prove he's a hero the next time when he saves all of Earth from the giant terror that only he can stop.

[foolsguinea]

I think Green Lantern doesn't really work well in any medium. A man with a magic ring that materializes whatever he wants? Really?

Some of the old Corps shorts were pretty cool, and Kyle Rayner (who was supposed to be a comic book artist in continuity) was all right, as the things the ring produced were sort of an extension of his artistness somehow. But in general Green Lantern is dumb on its face.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by foolsguinea

I think Green Lantern doesn't really work well in any medium. A man with a magic ring that materializes whatever he wants? Really?

Please, folks, the ring isn't "magic". It's a highly-advanced piece of technology. And when it comes down to it, the ring and its capabilities are just like every other can't-exist-in-real-life "super power": they exist solely as a storytelling tool, to tell stories about people. Ultimately, the powers don't matter. No superhero becomes popular because of their powers. They become popular because they're interesting characters with interesting stories.

Some of the old Corps shorts were pretty cool, and Kyle Rayner (who was supposed to be a comic book artist in continuity) was all right, as the things the ring produced were sort of an extension of his artistness somehow.

The rings work like that for every GL. Hal Jordan isn't all that imaginative, so his ring constructs tend to take the form of everyday objects. John Stewart is an architect and former soldier, and his constructs tend to be carefully (though instantly) engineered/designed, functional pieces of "equipment". Guy Gardner is an arrogant, macho showboat and half the time he doesn't bother with constructs, he just fires blasts that make a bunch of noise (where GL ring constructs typically don't make any sound).

[xnylder]

I also didn't enjoy the Green Lantern movie, and agree with what others have said in this thread: The Green Lantern's powers just aren't compelling. In my opinion, for superheroes to be effective (especially within the context of a movie), they need to have easy-to-understand advantages balanced with just as easy-to-understand vulnerabilities. Iron Man has his intelligence and armor, but his armor can break and malfunction. Thor has his strength and lighting-summoning hammer, but he can be overpowered and outwitted by his enemies, many of whom have similar godly status. When we get to Green Lantern, his advantage is too vast and vague (make anything out of thin air by using a ring) and his vulnerabilities are too, well, silly. (Running out of energy I can understand, but exposure to the color yellow? Really?) I haven't read the comic, where I imagine that the GL's abilities and limitations are more fleshed out, but as presented in the movie they were too hard to grasp. I found myself asking, "If he can make a minigun, why not a nuke? If he can make a car, why not a time machine?" There doesn't seem to be any limit to his power, and therefore no drama.

[Disposable Hero]

Originally Posted by foolsguinea

I think Green Lantern doesn't really work well in any medium. A man with a magic ring that materializes whatever he wants? Really?

Some of the old Corps shorts were pretty cool, and Kyle Rayner (who was supposed to be a comic book artist in continuity) was all right, as the things the ring produced were sort of an extension of his artistness somehow. But in general Green Lantern is dumb on its face.

The ring is only magic in the Clarke 'any sufficiently advanced technology' sense. Personally I think it makes more sense than most of the other DC superpowers, its a piece of equipment that can take a persons thoughts and turn them into physical reality, but to wield it you need a powerful will and imagination. It really wouldn't take that many more advances in technology to build something that can read the mind of its user, turning those thoughts into physical reality would be more difficult but nothing beyond possibility. The ring is merely a weapon, a tool, a piece of hardware. If I recall correctly the ring itself has some level of sentience, its more like an advanced AI than anything else, but I may be mistaken regarding that.

You dislike the concept but personally I think its really interesting, unlike most of the other superheroes the Green Lanterns are just ordinary human beings (or aliens) given an impressive piece of technology, the strength of will needed to wield it is purely internal.

I remember when I stopped watching the Justice League cartoon, it was the story regarding the superheros dealing with an alternate WW2, Wonder Woman, Superman and so on were shrugging off even the most advanced Nazi superweapons, where's the sense of danger and excitement if they can't even be injured? Unlike them Green Lantern was always depicted as pretty much an intergalactic cop, an ordinary man with an extraordinary 'gun', he was mortal and he could be killed.

btw Wonder Woman, now theres an uninteresting and ridiculous character, at least in my opinion.

Originally Posted by xnylder

I found myself asking, "If he can make a minigun, why not a nuke? If he can make a car, why not a time machine?" There doesn't seem to be any limit to his power, and therefore no drama.

This is a good question, what are the rings upper power limits? I recall reading that earlier in the GL universe the ring wouldn't allow you to kill someone but I think thats been rescinded. There is also the example above were GL John Stewart attempted to rebuild a planet but his willpower exceeded the ability of the ring to do so, which you have to admit is pretty impressive.

btw just to add my knowledge of Green Lantern is taken from the Justice League cartoon which I haven't watched for a long time and some snippets picked up here and there in the internets, just to clarify.

[Drunky Smurf]

I liked the movie well enough that I bought it. My main problem is that they are trying to do at least three* movies in one. It seems like they tried to do an origin movie, a Parallax movie and a Hector Hammond movie all in one. Way too much going on.

*I never really read the comics but I am aware of the characters.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by xnylder

When we get to Green Lantern, his advantage is too vast and vague (make anything out of thin air by using a ring) and his vulnerabilities are too, well, silly. (Running out of energy I can understand, but exposure to the color yellow? Really?) I haven't read the comic, where I imagine that the GL's abilities and limitations are more fleshed out, but as presented in the movie they were too hard to grasp. I found myself asking, "If he can make a minigun, why not a nuke? If he can make a car, why not a time machine?" There doesn't seem to be any limit to his power, and therefore no drama.

The vulnerability to the color yellow was removed a few years ago; I think the current batch of writers came to the same conclusion readers probably came to a long time ago: "What a silly vulnerability". Granted, it was plausibly explained in the lore, but still silly. They also worked within the established lore to go about getting rid of it, rather than just handwaving it away. I had a book that collected the first few years of GL comics (from the 1960s), and yeah, it was silly. Every single issue presented Hal with some new threat that just happened to be colored yellow — Giant space alien menacing Earth? It's yellow. Malfunctioning, runaway military experimental missile headed for Coast City? The Army painted it yellow — and Hal had to come up with some creative, indirect way to stop it, since his ring couldn't take direct action against the threat.

So they removed the yellow vulnerability and replaced it with a new one by changing the primary qualification for becoming a GL. Now, instead of a candidate being "without fear", a candidate is rather "capable of overcoming great fear". According to GL lore, fear is the antithesis of will. So in order to wield a ring, the bearer must be able to overcome his/her fear. Succumbing to fear overrides the bearer's will, leaving him/her unable to use the ring effectively. Additionally, the ring is not all-powerful. A GL can be defeated by a superior opponent, whether by simple overwhelming force, or by a better fighter. And as you already mentioned, running out of energy (the ring's equivalent of running out of bullets). Oh yeah, and an opponent with a stronger will than the Green Lantern can resist the ring's effects.

As for "if he can make X, why not Y?", the key here is that the ring constructs are not functional in and of themselves. All the power comes from the ring; the constructs are basically visualization tools to help the GL direct the ring's power. So Hal Jordan creates a giant boxing glove, John Stewart creates a rifle, and Guy Gardner shoots a "laser beam" from his ring, and they're all effectively performing the same action: hit the other guy. They each just do it in a manner that suits their personalities. During the movie's climax, Hal created a pair of fighter jets to pull against the sun's gravity, because as a fighter test pilot, that was something familiar to him. He could have created a team of horses, and they would have been equally effective. The point is, it wasn't the jets (or the horses) doing the work, it was the ring generating an opposing force/anchor at a certain spot and tethering Hal to that opposing force.

Green Lanterns fly through the vacuum of space, and the ring protects them. If they're bringing somebody else with them, the ring will protect the other person the same way. But that other person might freak out over being in space without so much as a spacesuit, so the GL can project a suit around them, or even a small spaceship. But the projection is just that: a projection. It offers no additional protection, it simply eases the mind of their companion.

Essentially, ring constructs are simply visual metaphors for whatever is actually taking place.

Originally Posted by Disposable Hero

I recall reading that earlier in the GL universe the ring wouldn't allow you to kill someone but I think thats been rescinded.

Currently, GL rings will allow the use of lethal force against members of the Sinestro Corps, and only members of the Sinestro Corps. And for that to happen, the Guardians (the big bosses/creators of the GL Corps) had to specifically pass a law to allow it and then program the rings to allow lethal force against those specific targets.

[Disposable Hero]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

Currently, GL rings will allow the use of lethal force against members of the Sinestro Corps, and only members of the Sinestro Corps. And for that to happen, the Guardians (the big bosses/creators of the GL Corps) had to specifically pass a law to allow it and then program the rings to allow lethal force against those specific targets.

How does that work though, does the ring know that the GL intends to kill with the construct that's being created and refuse to make it...or what?

[Lightray]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

Currently, GL rings will allow the use of lethal force against members of the Sinestro Corps, and only members of the Sinestro Corps. And for that to happen, the Guardians (the big bosses/creators of the GL Corps) had to specifically pass a law to allow it and then program the rings to allow lethal force against those specific targets.

Actually, after the Guardians made the "Lethal force authorized against the Sinestro Corps" new rule, they made a "Lethal force authorized against any enemy of the GLC" rule. They were on a kick of making 10 new rules, and you 'd think that those two just sort of waste one of the ten slots... but that storyline seems to have petered out in favor of the other myriad variants of the Guardians-are-jerks storyline.

Disposable Hero, the GL ring has an onboard AI which recognizes when a kill shot isn't authorized, and the gun-construct (or whatever) simply fails to fire the kill shot. So the construct is still around, it just doesn't work for that instance.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by Lightray

Actually, after the Guardians made the "Lethal force authorized against the Sinestro Corps" new rule, they made a "Lethal force authorized against any enemy of the GLC" rule.

You're right, I'd forgotten about the latest rule

[ralph124c]

I read the GL comics as a kid. To me, he wasn't in the same class as Superman or Batman-GL was a sort of "low rent" crimefighter.
The "Power Ring" and "Lamp" were kinda hokey-and the costume was stupid looking.
Plus the mantra he was always mouthing "In brightest day, in blackest night, no evil can escape my sight"-really an ersatz Superman.
Anyway-how did GL handle the changing (from street clothes into costume)? Superman used phone booths, Batman had the batcave-did GL strip down in public?

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by ralph124c

Anyway-how did GL handle the changing (from street clothes into costume)? Superman used phone booths, Batman had the batcave-did GL strip down in public?

The ring basically transforms his clothing into his uniform. Or replaces his clothing with the uniform. Not exactly sure which. Either way, it's basically instantaneous.

[Disposable Hero]

Originally Posted by Lightray

Disposable Hero, the GL ring has an onboard AI which recognizes when a kill shot isn't authorized, and the gun-construct (or whatever) simply fails to fire the kill shot. So the construct is still around, it just doesn't work for that instance.

Ah, I see, I imagined the way it would work is the ring would read the intent of the GL behind the creation of the construct. If it was something simple like a sword it wouldn't allow it to be created at all.

At least that's my theory and I'm sticking to it...

btw that was something I did wonder about the training scenes in the movie, they didn't seem to be messing around and at least in Jordan VS Sinestro appeared to be genuinely trying to hurt or kill the other, you don't create a working gatling gun if you're just trying to make a point. How do you train realistically with a weapon like that (the ring) without hurting your opponent?

[dropzone]

If the movie had done better, would the Green Lantern still be in the closet?

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by dropzone

If the movie had done better, would the Green Lantern still be in the closet?

Considering that it's not the movie Green Lantern (or even the movie WORLD'S Green Lantern) that they made gay, it's kind of moot.

[dropzone]

Um, the gay Green Lantern is now the WORLD'S Green Lantern outside of comic book circles. All Normals know about the Green Lantern, as shown by the unpopularity of the movie with them, is what they have heard about him on TV and it's that he's gay. Even the next guy to don the ring will have to keep saying, "No, I'm straight. You're thinking about the last guy," in every issue.

[Lightray]

Originally Posted by dropzone

Um, the gay Green Lantern is now the WORLD'S Green Lantern outside of comic book circles. All Normals know about the Green Lantern, as shown by the unpopularity of the movie with them, is what they have heard about him on TV and it's that he's gay. Even the next guy to don the ring will have to keep saying, "No, I'm straight. You're thinking about the last guy," in every issue.

Um, there are at least three Green Lantern comic books in the stores now (Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, New Guardians). Alan Scott -- the newly gay Green Lantern who has nothing to do with any of those -- isn't going to be in any of those and (at this point) isn't going to have his own comic title.

If the "Normals" or the WORLD are going to try to find anything on Green Lantern, it isn't going to be gay Alan Scott they'll find.

[Chronos]

If the "Normals" or the WORLD are going to try to find anything on Green Lantern, it isn't going to be gay Alan Scott they'll find.

Actually, it will be. A Google search for "Green Lantern" has as its first two hits news stories about Alan Scott being gay. Then we've got the Wikipedia page, which is about all of the Green Lanterns, then IMDb for the recent movie, then Yahoo Answers for "Do you care that Alan Scott is gay?". So out of the first five hits, three are all about Scott's orientation, and one of the others is partly about that.

[Irishman]

There's more than one Green Lantern? [/most people]

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Irishman

There's more than one Green Lantern? [/most people]

"Why would they EVER make more than one Green Lantern?" [/most people who've seen the movie]

[xnylder]

Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation, Mister Rik. I had no idea the writers had removed the yellow vulnerability. I don't really see how the new one, fear, makes the rings any more limitless though. Can't the corps just recruit meatheaded teenagers to wear the rings? They're fearless enough by themselves, and given a powerful ring I can't imagine they'd be any more sensible. I don't know what would happen if multiple lunkheads faced off against each other though; maybe a black (green?) hole?

As for the "ring as visualization tool" concept, well, I'm not sure I see why that limits it either. Say I have such a ring, and I want to destroy a mountain. (It's blocking my view, OK?) I firmly believe my ring can do that, and protect me and innocent bystanders from the blast to boot. I visualize a big pile of dynamite - maybe even a nuclear bomb - and unleash the power. If the ring is just generating a force, and only stops working if I feel fear (or, as your and other posts mentioned, I'm trying to kill someone inappropriate), why shouldn't that mountain go kaboom? Maybe I should rephrase my objection: I'm not annoyed that the ring's power does or doesn't take particular forms, but I find it's a weak plot point that it has near-infinite power in terms of effects. It seems to me that anyone with sufficient will and imagination could defeat anything, therefore eliminating risk and drama.

PS Am I the only person who noticed that "being yellow" is slang for being afraid? Nope? Alright then...

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by xnylder

Can't the corps just recruit meatheaded teenagers to wear the rings? They're fearless enough by themselves

If you want to reduce them to quivering bundles of self-doubt, just say that green suit makes them look gay.

[dropzone]

Only on Thursdays.

[jayjay]

There's a possibility that the selection process the Guardians go through filters out people whose grasp on power is a little too much in the "blow up that mountain because I can" direction. Then again, there are multiple defectors from the Corps that turned bad (Sinestro being only one), so their process can't be THAT good.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by xnylder

Can't the corps just recruit meatheaded teenagers to wear the rings? They're fearless enough by themselves, and given a powerful ring I can't imagine they'd be any more sensible.

Well, being a GL requires a certain amount of discipline, responsibility, and ability to follow orders. There's been at least one teenage GL, a girl named Arisia. I can't recall what planet she's from, but she was 13 years old when she got her ring. Then she developed a big crush on Hal Jordan. When he rebuffed her advances because she was "just a kid", she somehow used her ring to artificially mature her body into "full-grown woman" form (I don't think she got the point). However, that was one of those silly storylines from the '60s or '70s, and I don't think that's something the writers would allow the ring to do now.

Maybe I should rephrase my objection: I'm not annoyed that the ring's power does or doesn't take particular forms, but I find it's a weak plot point that it has near-infinite power in terms of effects. It seems to me that anyone with sufficient will and imagination could defeat anything, therefore eliminating risk and drama.

Ultimately, it comes down to writer discretion. "Modern" comic writers understand that unlimited power effectively eliminates dramatic tension, and they're pretty good these days about avoiding "power inflation". They may not explicitly define the limitations of a characters power, but they avoid making those powers into an automatic "I WIN" button. The Green Lantern Corps has thousands of members, and they face plenty of threats that require multiple GLs to handle - sometimes the entire Corps.

Power inflation was one of the main reasons behind the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" back in the 1980s. Superman, in particular, had gotten completely out of control as far as how powerful he was. Different writers over the years kept giving him new powers, and making the powers he already had even more powerful, culminating in one story where he actually flew into space and blew out a star with his "super-breath". So the folks at DC said, "Okay, let's start over".

PS Am I the only person who noticed that "being yellow" is slang for being afraid? Nope? Alright then...

Oh, that was quite a deliberate thing on the part of the writers when they came up with the "yellow impurity" (and later, Sinestro and his Corps. More recently, they've expanded the "Emotional Spectrum":

Red = Rage (The Red Lanterns)
Orange - Avarice (There's only one these guys. Because the orange lantern and ring are his. Don't touch his stuff! It's not yours!)
Yellow = Fear (Sinestro Corps)
Green = Willpower (Green Lantern Corps)
Blue = Hope (The Blue Lanterns)
Indigo = Compassion (The Indigo Tribe)
Violet = Love (The Star Sapphires, an all-female corps)

There are also Black Lanterns (Death) and White Lanterns (Life).

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

There are also Black Lanterns (Death) and White Lanterns (Life).

Black Lanterns being (literally) zombies, or at least demon-inhabited corpses...

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by jayjay

There's a possibility that the selection process the Guardians go through filters out people whose grasp on power is a little too much in the "blow up that mountain because I can" direction. Then again, there are multiple defectors from the Corps that turned bad (Sinestro being only one), so their process can't be THAT good.

Candidates are selected by the ring's AI when its previous bearer dies, but then the ring does rather forcibly haul the candidate back to Oa (the GL base planet) for basic training, where actual, living GL members and the Guardians can evaluate them and weed out those who are unsuitable (or where the candidate can say, "no thank you").

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

Candidates are selected by the ring's AI when its previous bearer dies

That's inconsistently applied at best. Some stories stress that the dying Abin Sur told his ring to go seek a successor, but this was uncommon and the decision normally would be up to the Guardians.

[Kamino Neko]

Originally Posted by jayjay

Black Lanterns being (literally) zombies, or at least demon-inhabited corpses...

The exact nature of the Black Lanterns is not entirely clear. The actual corpses of the dead do have a part in it, clearly, and their minds. But...

The state of the bodies - dead and decayed for a decade, returned to life and perfectly fresh, burnt to ash, reduced to stray atoms - has little to no effect on the appearance of the Black Lantern resulting from it (unless, of course, the nature of their death is being used to mess with whichever living person they're approaching).

It seems that the Black Lanterns are comprised, primarily, of the ring energy, simply influenced by the imprisoned consciousness of whoever it was in life.

The Orange Lanterns are similar, actually - while Larfleez is, technically speaking, the only Orange Lantern, there are others, such as Glomulus who are at least semi-sapient, and semi-autonomous constructs of the lantern's energy, their mental patterns copied from people that Larfleez had killed - typically for trying to take the lantern/ring. (The Orange Lantern Corps is thus large scale identity theft!)

[Kamino Neko]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

That's inconsistently applied at best. Some stories stress that the dying Abin Sur told his ring to go seek a successor, but this was uncommon and the decision normally would be up to the Guardians.

Maybe at one point, but it's been extremely consistent in the last decade or so that finding a new ringbearer is a semi-automatic function of the rings - it's implied that for a time, Mogo had something to do with it, especially with the circumstances leading to his death, but the ring, upon the owner's expiration will invariably be shown to zip off, to find a new one, unless stopped by some extreme means.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

That's inconsistently applied at best. Some stories stress that the dying Abin Sur told his ring to go seek a successor, but this was uncommon and the decision normally would be up to the Guardians.

Originally Posted by Tengu

Maybe at one point, but it's been extremely consistent in the last decade or so that finding a new ringbearer is a semi-automatic function of the rings - it's implied that for a time, Mogo had something to do with it, especially with the circumstances leading to his death, but the ring, upon the owner's expiration will invariably be shown to zip off, to find a new one, unless stopped by some extreme means.

Abin Sur was also something of a unique case, in that he had the time to do that. He knew he was dying and rather than wait to die before the ring found a replacement, he went ahead and expedited the process.

There's also the question of why was he flying a spaceship when Green Lanterns are perfectly capable of space travel without a ship, but that would take more explanation than I'm up to tonight.

[Kamino Neko]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

There's also the question of why was he flying a spaceship when Green Lanterns are perfectly capable of space travel without a ship, but that would take more explanation than I'm up to tonight.

I unno...you can argue about whether the explanation is a good one, but it's pretty simple, once you pare away the unnecessary (to the topic at hand) details - after hearing a deliberately skewed prophecy, he stopped trusting his ring, and started using a space ship...which is ultimately what caused his death, in deliberately engineered irony.

[Bryan Ekers]

Yeah.... what does Ab need with a spaceship?

[Disposable Hero]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

Oh, absolutely. The DC Universe Animated Original series is pretty hit-or-miss, but they're generally better, I've found, than any of DC's live-action movies.

Well, I bought and watched the First Flight animated movie, I thought it was pretty good. Some random comments regarding it though.

Hal Jordans personality was very different between the live action and animated movies, I personally much preferred the live-action Jordan, he was a lot more sympathetic, likable and believable, animated-movie Jordan frankly fell on the wrong side of the smartass line and came across as something of a prick.

The voice acting for the alien characters was a lot better and more appropriate in the movie, Kilowog especially didn't sound at all like the large heavyweight person he is depicted as.

I was surprised at how brutal and adult some of the scenes in the animated movie were, really not very appropriate for younger children, I had to rewind the DVD to make sure I had really heard one scene right ("the bastard is hiding in here somewhere").

I thought the depiction of the Guardians was quite interesting, while stand-offish and arrogant they also seemed to really care for their 'troops', their horror when all the rings from deceased GL's came back to Oa was quite well done.

SPOILER:

I also didn't see the Boudicca betrayal coming

Overall I liked the animated movie but I still think the live action film is underrated. I probably missed much of the fan-service references in the animated movie though.

On a side-issue, I was mulling over the capabilities of the GL rings and there was something I was wondering about. Can a GL use the ring to cause changes in the user? For example could they use them to make themselves more intelligent, or physically or mentally faster in combat (they certainly use them to increase their strength), what about effecting physical changes in their body and appearance to disguise themselves?

[cmkeller]

Tengu:

Maybe at one point, but it's been extremely consistent in the last decade or so that finding a new ringbearer is a semi-automatic function of the rings

That's when the ring-bearer is already dead. Abin Sur was alive (for a little while longer, at least) when he passed the ring along.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

There's also the question of why was he flying a spaceship when Green Lanterns are perfectly capable of space travel without a ship, but that would take more explanation than I'm up to tonight.

You don't think Lanterns ever have to eat or go to the bathroom? Plus I'm sure it saves ring energy, has communications, sensors, information databases etc. that come in handy.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

You don't think Lanterns ever have to eat or go to the bathroom? Plus I'm sure it saves ring energy, has communications, sensors, information databases etc. that come in handy.

The ring itself provides communications, sensors, and information databases (or at least a direct link to the databases on Oa). In any case, it's been noted in the comics themselves that Abin Sur's use of a physical ship was quite unusual. His Wikipedia page explains it fairly well:

The Prophecy

During Sinestro Corps War, it is revealed that Abin discovered a prophecy concerning the Multiverse, The Powers of the Emotional Spectrum, and The Blackest Night prior to his death. Green Lantern: Secret Origin, reveals details of Abin's quest to learn more about The Blackest Night as he interrogated The Five Inversions on Ysmault, who had foreseen the prophecy. He learns that Earth is the birthplace of The Black: the antithesis of the emotional spectrum that the prophecy predicts will "one day consume all light and all life." He discovers that the prophecy foretells his own death, when his ring fails him in his time of greatest need. He subsequently journeys to Earth in an effort to learn more about The Blackest Night, so that he might stop the prophecy's fulfillment. During his quest, Abin Sur begins to lose his faith in his willpower and his ring, and begins to feel fear. His weakened willpower results in his ring creating correspondingly weaker constructs, allowing his prisoner, Atrocitus, to break free and attack him, and cause his ship to crash on Earth. Abin Sur is critically injured in the crash, leading him to instruct his ring to seek out a successor and the ring chose Hal Jordan. His discovery of the prophecy from The Five Inversions was noted in the Book of Oa. However, this was believed to be a lie from their enemies and one of the Guardians, later named Scar, burned the page which has Sur's prophecy years later. Only two Guardians, Ganthet and Sayd, as well as a Zamaron tribe, would take his discovery seriously.

...

The question was raised of why Abin Sur needed a ship, but in the Green Lantern Origins serial, it is stated that out of paranoia of the prophecy of his destruction, he navigated the cosmos in a ship filled with weapons, not trusting the powers of his ring, as the prophecy stated that his ring would fail him when he needed it most.

Pre-Crisis explanation

In the story "Earth's First Green Lantern," Jordan revealed that he wondered that himself and asked his ring to explain.

The ring told the story of how Abin Sur found a world which was still at a Middle Age stage of advancement even though it should have been in the atomic age, and discovered a parasitic energy being species that fed on sentient beings' "I-factor," a substance that enabled inventiveness, attacking civilizations and stalling their development, as they had no I-factor themselves. Sur captured them to stop their destruction, placing them in a bubble, but one of their number had escaped as it was attacking another world and vowed to free his brethren. To do so, he tracked down Sur's planet and created a disaster by making a volcano erupt to force him to appear to stop it. Since Sur did not mask himself, the being recognized him immediately and followed him to his home. As Sur neglected to charge his ring before going to sleep, he was unable to stop the being from taking control of him.

With the being in control of his body and about to force him to go and free his fellows, Sur tricked the being into thinking that he would not be able to do so because the ring would be low on power after the trip there while in reality the ring's charge is purely time based. The being decided to have Sur take a ship to the destination, but before leaving, Sur managed to get a hold of his invisible power battery without the creature noticing. On the ship, Sur piloted the ship and waited until he moved into a green colored planetary radiation belt which allowed Sur to charge his ring without the being noticing, as his ring glowed green when recharging. Thus armed, Sur battled and captured the being, sending it of into orbit of the same star that his fellow beings were imprisoned at. However during the fight, the ship wandered into Earth's radiation belt. With his ring useless, Sur lost control of the battered ship and crashed. Mortally wounded, Sur sought out his replacement and drew Jordan to him. Jordan learnt of this from the ring.

According to Jordan, this account prompted him to keep a secret identity as a security precaution and to carefully navigate around Earth's radiation belts.

Post-Crisis explanation

In Tales of the Green Lantern Corps Annual #2 (1986) story "Tygers", writer Alan Moore answered the question with a story of how the hero once visited Ysmault, a prison planet for an ancient race of demons, the Empire of Tears, vanquished millennia ago by the Oans. He was on a rescue mission and felt he could not wait for instruction from the Guardians.

While there, Abin Sur met a demon named Qull of the Five Inversions, a humanoid with a gaping mouth in his chest and a tongue-shaped head, crucified by three glowing spikes topped with the symbol of the Green Lantern Corps. This unholy messiah predicted the hero would die when his power ring ran out of energy at a critical moment, while he was fighting an opponent or unprotected in hard vacuum. Abin Sur, worried by this prophecy, began using a starship for interstellar voyages, as an additional safeguard.

A decade later, fleeing his enemy, his spaceship collided with a girdle of yellow radiation around Earth that rendered his starship and his power-ring useless within moments. Had he relied on his ring alone, he realized, he might have tested the planet's magnetosphere before rashly entering it. Thus, while Legion may have wounded him, it could be argued that it was Qull that was actually responsible for Abin Sur's death, having sown the seeds of doubt in the Green Lantern's mind.

Green Lantern: Secret Origin

In the Secret Origins arc (Green Lantern vol. 4), Abin Sur's final fate was tweaked again to incorporate elements of the Parallax impurity. Still forced to use a starship due to his growing fear of impending death, Abin Sur dies while escorting Atrocitus, another prisoner of the Empire of Tears to Earth in his search for the Black Energies foretold to bring on the Blackest Night. Atrocitus successfully manages to free himself and Abin Sur is left to choose between a crash landing on Coast City, or a riskier one in the desert nearby. Abin Sur chooses sacrifice, and lands in the desert. He dies of his wounds after warning Sinestro, still a loyal Lantern at the time, and designating Hal Jordan as his successor.