SDMB FF Dynasty League: Year Three

[dalej42]

I've got a glut of QBs so I'm willing to trade some of them.

1. Cam Newton is available for a good RB or WR

2. Kerry Collins or Travaris Jackson for a starting WR or RB

[Really Not All That Bright]

How good a WR do you want for Newton, exactly?

[dalej42]

I'm looking for a top 20 RB or WR for Newton.

[Stringer]

I just re-read all of the threads for the league to see if we ever discussed return TDs being worth nothing to D/ST (I was surprised to see the SF DEF get no points for the Ginn returns.) Turns out it was just a choice Varlos made in his initial setup that noone questioned. I don't feel strongly enough to lobby for a change, just wondering what the rationale was behind this decision?

Anyway, since I had forgotten most of the things this league has argued about, I wondered if people still had the same thoughts on a few subjects now that we are in year 3.

1. We argued for pages and pages about if allowing an RB/WR flex was too powerful. The decision to add 0.5 PPR changed most people's minds and the RB/WR flex was reluctantly agreed upon. Do you think we made the right decision?

2. The original draft type/order was argued at length. We finally agreed on ABCD DCBA DCBA then regular serpentine. Does anyone think this ended up mattering?

3. The numerous proclamations about future prospects was quite amusing to look back on. Oh how wrong we were about such and such guy being a starter within 2 years who is now watching the games from home.

[Ellis Dee]

I'd like to see return TDs count for defenses.

Originally Posted by Stringer

1. We argued for pages and pages about if allowing an RB/WR flex was too powerful. The decision to add 0.5 PPR changed most people's minds and the RB/WR flex was reluctantly agreed upon. Do you think we made the right decision?

2. The original draft type/order was argued at length. We finally agreed on ABCD DCBA DCBA then regular serpentine. Does anyone think this ended up mattering?

I agree with both the logic and result of both decisions.

[Really Not All That Bright]

It's double points. The player who returns the kick/punt already gets points; why should the defense get them too?

As far as the draft order, it doesn't make much difference at all in this format, since none of us is going to win the league if we need a lot of draft help.

The 0.5 PPR is one of my favorite things about this league, and I think the W/T and W/R flex spots are brilliant ideas.

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

It's double points. The player who returns the kick/punt already gets points; why should the defense get them too?

The 0.5 PPR is one of my favorite things about this league, and I think the W/T and W/R flex spots are brilliant ideas.

Agreed on both.

As for the draft, if you go back to the discussion on page one/two, it really doesn't matter how we did the draft. None of us knew what the hell we were doing. So even if we had done a non-snaking draft, things would probably be about the same.

[Stringer]

What about the "double points" on passing touchdowns? The way I see it, the QB did one thing (threw a passing touchdown), and the receiver did another (caught a receiving touchdown.) Similarly, the PR/KR did one thing (returned the kickoff/PR for a touchdown), while the special teams did another (blocked for a kickoff/PR touchdown.)

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Stringer

What about the "double points" on passing touchdowns? The way I see it, the QB did one thing (threw a passing touchdown), and the receiver did another (caught a receiving touchdown.) Similarly, the PR/KR did one thing (returned the kickoff/PR for a touchdown), while the special teams did another (blocked for a kickoff/PR touchdown.)

That is a good point that I hadn't considered. If we do it, I don't think it should be this year as the season has already started. But putting this on the list of rule changes to discuss at the end of the season would probably be a good idea.

[SenorBeef]

I think I have to start Gronkowski if no one wants him. 86/1 last week, 57/2 this week with time left to play. Anyone interested in Finley or Graham? I need receivers.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I'll give you Robert Meachem for Finley. TD two straight weeks and Colston ain't coming back anytime soon.

[Hamlet]

I'll also trade a WR for Finley. Simpson, OchoCinco, Jacoby Jones (Walter is injured), Steve Smith (who has had an awesome couple of weeks) would be available to you. Take a look.

[SenorBeef]

I may have to stand pat because I think you guys are underestimating the value of Finley as likely a top 3 TE for the next 5-8 years. Ochocino and Steve Smith may have one or two good seasons left in them if that. I'm not in a desperate position, I just don't like sitting TEs that put up 15 points every week.

I have an outside shot at knocking off Retro if McCoy goes nuts.

Varlos needs Matt Bryant to outscore Furt's Maclin and Rams D.

Ellis Dee needs to make up a 30 point gap plus Julio Jones to with Manning, Manningham, and Tynes to beat Omni.

[Stringer]

I'm getting hit pretty bad with injuries already, poor Charles.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

I may have to stand pat because I think you guys are underestimating the value of Finley as likely a top 3 TE for the next 5-8 years. Ochocino and Steve Smith may have one or two good seasons left in them if that. I'm not in a desperate position, I just don't like sitting TEs that put up 15 points every week.

If it's youth you want, perhaps you'd like Eric Decker. He had 23.8 points tonight (5 catches, 113 yards, 2 td's) and he returns punts too (1 td in week one). He's young with nice upside and is far outproducing Finley this year.

[SenorBeef]

Decker and Jerome Simpson are more appealing offers, but I was hoping for a top TE candidate I might get more. I'll put some feelers out there I guess. Varlos should really make some sort of deal with me since our rosters are custom made for a trade with each other.

Really, I'd trade any of my TEs. I can only start 2, and my 4 scored 22/23/11/9 this week. Too many points sitting on the bench while I'm barely squeaking by at WR.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Looks like I'm going to be 1-1 in every league I'm in after this week.

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Stringer

I'm getting hit pretty bad with injuries already, poor Charles.

Vick too.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Come talk to me when you have three of the top 5 tight ends and all three of them are on IR.

The "I wonder if we'll be any good if we give Reggie Bush the ball" experiment appears to have been shelved after one week, despite pretty encouraging early returns. Also, Daniel Thomas fucks runs like a beast, so it's probably over for good.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

Decker and Jerome Simpson are more appealing offers, but I was hoping for a top TE candidate I might get more.

Finley is the 15th rated TE, with 4 free agents outscoring him. While he certainly has huge upside, especially if he stays in Green Bay, but the TE position is very deep and the difference between him and the next available guy isn't that huge. The days of dominant TE's, with Gates and Gonzo outscoring almost every other TE combined are, I think, over.

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Finley is the 15th rated TE, with 4 free agents outscoring him. While he certainly has huge upside, especially if he stays in Green Bay, but the TE position is very deep and the difference between him and the next available guy isn't that huge. The days of dominant TE's, with Gates and Gonzo outscoring almost every other TE combined are, I think, over.

Yep, you don't need a top TE to compete in this or any league these days.

[Stringer]

Really thought I could get David Nelson for $16 *Shakes fist at Beef*

[SenorBeef]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Finley is the 15th rated TE, with 4 free agents outscoring him. While he certainly has huge upside, especially if he stays in Green Bay, but the TE position is very deep and the difference between him and the next available guy isn't that huge. The days of dominant TE's, with Gates and Gonzo outscoring almost every other TE combined are, I think, over.

2 games isn't a really meaningful sample size to judge value. If it were, you'd think I'd be able to move Gronk as the #1 TE. Actually, since he finished #5 last year, started #1 this year, and gets like 80% of NE's red zone targets, you'd think someone would be interested in him, but I've not gotten any offers.

For the matter, Tony Gonzalez just put up like 30 points. Anyone want him?

I mean, considering it's a dynasty league, who do you think the 5 most desirable TEs in this league would be to own? Where is Finley ranked?

Originally Posted by Stringer

Really thought I could get David Nelson for $16 *Shakes fist at Beef*

I haven't had a chance to watch any film on him, which I try to do for these pickups, but I just figured... young receiver, sudden breakout, surprisingly decent looking offense - worth a flier. $21 is a bit more than a flier, but I'd rather take some big swings early on than finish the season with money.

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

2 games isn't a really meaningful sample size to judge value. If it were, you'd think I'd be able to move Gronk as the #1 TE. Actually, since he finished #5 last year, started #1 this year, and gets like 80% of NE's red zone targets, you'd think someone would be interested in him, but I've not gotten any offers.

For the matter, Tony Gonzalez just put up like 30 points. Anyone want him?

I mean, considering it's a dynasty league, who do you think the 5 most desirable TEs in this league would be to own? Where is Finley ranked?

I actually prefer someone hoarding a lot of good TE options. Me trotting out Fred Davis is not that bad when my opponents are playing Owen Daniels, Greg Olsen, Ed Dickson, Lance Kendricks, Brandon Pettigrew (all guys I consider to be typically outside the top 12.) With bye weeks and injuries, I figure to be playing a below-top-12 TE around half the time. Personally I think it's better to keep an advantage in RB or WR depth than trade them for a small upgrade at TE.

[SenorBeef]

Is Finley worth something now?

Gronk's fantasy points: 19, 23, 27.
Finley 6, 9, 31
Graham 14, 11, 19
Gonzo 10, 24, 9

Four of the top 5. 3/4 are young. Anything?

[Really Not All That Bright]

He's still worth a Meachem to me (now three straight weeks with a touchdown).

[Hamlet]

I'll also trade a WR for Finley. Simpson, OchoCinco, Jacoby Jones (Walter is injured), Steve Smith (who has had an awesome couple of weeks) would be available to you. Take a look.

If it's youth you want, perhaps you'd like Eric Decker.

[SenorBeef]

I feel like I'd be massively on the wrong side of all those offers. You tried to play down Finley's value when you made similar offers last week by saying he's the #15 ranked TE after a slow start. Well, he's no longer off to a slow start. Not that I felt it was relevant before - he's clearly a top 3, possibly top 1 dynasty TE going forward.

We recognize that the same production from a TE and WR means the TE is far more valuable, right? I mean, 1000/10 from a receiver is very nice, but it's pretty common. 1000/10 from the tight end position are all-time great season numbers. So the TE that can produce X is more valuable than the WR that can produce X. Which is why Antonio Gates was always so valuable - his numbers equal to the 13th WR or something would've been nice to have in a WR, but were amazing in a TE.

Anyway, all of the players you're offering me are very likely to have less production than Finley. Less production from a position where it's easier and more common to see that production is a double loss for me. Simpson is the #2 on an offense that can't get out of it's own way, that's QBed by Andy Dalton. Ochocinco has caught like 3 passes this year, and it's probably his last. Jacoby Jones has never been more than a utility player and that's unlikely to change now. Steve Smith may indeed match Finley's numbers this year, but that's only if Cam Newton isn't a fluke, and he's only likely to have 1 or 2 more years in him.

Finley will not only outproduce all of these guys, but he'll do so from a position where that production is more rare and valuable, and he's also got the highest floor - he's part of an established offense with a young QB who loves him. Only injury can keep Finley from being great for the next 5-10 years.

If you made those same offers for Tony Gonzalez, I'd probably take one - he's currently valuable but has maybe 1-3 years left, so his dynasty value isn't great. Finley is probably more valuable than 3 of the guys you're offering combined.

If you doubt me and think Finley isn't all that valuable, that's alright, but who is a more valuable long term TE than Finley? Who's more likely to be the next Antonio Gates over the next decade in terms of value? (If you have an alternate answer to this, chances are I have him and he's up for trade too)

[Stringer]

What level WR do you think Finley is worth? I would say Percy Harvin, it sounds like you think Calvin Johnson.

[SenorBeef]

Because I reject Chad Ochocinco, Jerome Simpson, and Steve Smith, you conclude I'm holding out for Calvin Johnson? Do you honestly think any of those would be remotely fair trades?

Percy Harvin is in the right ballpark. I'd give that some thought.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Personally, I think Meachem is going to be the Saints' #1 WR going forward - he's faster than Colston and Moore and bigger than Henderson.

What about Boldin?

[Justin_Bailey]

In case anyone's looking for a trade not involving a TE, I'm putting Brandon Jacobs on the trading block.

I'm looking for a WR of comparable value, so make me an offer.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Steve Smith the Second plus Ryan Torain?

[SenorBeef]

I got a few serious offers in trades for my TEs, so thanks, I'll be looking over them. I'm in negotiations for a possibly big trade at the moment and it may be a bit before I respond.

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

Steve Smith the Second plus Ryan Torain?

I was looking for a bit more than that. Has Torain even had a carry all season?

[Really Not All That Bright]

No, but it's Shanahan- he's bound to start a game eventually. You can have Cadillac instead if you want.

[Hamlet]

One thing about being in too many fantasy football leagues, they make for some serious frustration. Aaron Rodgers helps the Packers to a big win ... and scores almost 50 points for Senor Beef, keeping him in our matchup. Now I need to root for LaGarrette Blount to score less than 16 points, but more than 13.7 so that I can win both my money league and this league.

I have to downsize.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

No, but it's Shanahan- he's bound to start a game eventually. You can have Cadillac instead if you want.

1. I told you so.
2. Why the hell didn't I listen to myself?

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

One thing about being in too many fantasy football leagues, they make for some serious frustration. Aaron Rodgers helps the Packers to a big win ... and scores almost 50 points for Senor Beef, keeping him in our matchup. Now I need to root for LaGarrette Blount to score less than 16 points, but more than 13.7 so that I can win both my money league and this league.

I have to downsize.

I'm suffering from a similar problem. I've just decided to not root for fantasy teams. I'm pretty much going to go .500 in all my leagues in a given week. At least until it's later in the season every time a guy kills me he usually helps me somewhere else. In an ironic way, being in too many leagues has actually gotten me watching games without rooting for my fantasy teams.

[Really Not All That Bright]

You can avoid this problem by winning all of your games comfortably - which I will this week, barring an epic meltdown by the Buccaneers' defense and Connor Barth tonight.

Of course, it's still an issue every other week.

[Hamlet]

Before tonight's game and regardless of Blounts showing in it, I will note that Beef would've have crushed me if he had Steve Smith and I had Jermichael Finley. Those fucking 49 points by Rodgers, though. Ouch.

[SenorBeef]

Turns out I beat you AND I get Jermichael Finley for the next 10 years.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

Turns out I beat you AND I get Jermichael Finley for the next 10 years.

One thing this league has given me is the serenity to accept scoring a shitload of points and losing. If Rodgers gets you 50 every week, I think you'll have a very good team.

[RetroVertigo]

If only Winslow would held on to that pass in the endzone.

[SenorBeef]

Sorry for lack of response to trade offers. I'm on the road and (slowly) negotiating a deal but it may fall through.

[Stringer]

Hey Beef, I'm gonna cancel the official trade offer but it's still on the table if you are interested.

[SenorBeef]

Alright, yeah, sorry, got home last night and I've been busy with tons of stuff. And Varlos and I were making progress when he dropped off the face of the earth.

So I just noticed I have the most points scored in this league (unexpected), but also lead the league in points scored against, so I just barely avoided making a 1-3 start by a few points.

[SenorBeef]

I've been trying to move one of my top 3 TEs so much that I kinda forgot about Tony Gonzalez. He's still a top 5 TE, but since he's only got another 2-3 years left, I'd be willing to take considerably less in return for him. Looking for WRs in particular, third tier guys or young guys with potential.

[SenorBeef]

I had a 130 to 85 projected score over the Redbirds, and so far it's about the opposite. I always get worried when yahoo thinks I'm a massive favorite. I need a huge day out of the Green Bay offense to catch up, although that's the offense you want in that situation, so I've got a chance.

[SenorBeef]

I need to make up a 72 point gap with Rodgers, Nelson, Finley, and Gould against Redbird's Hester.

Hamlet needs 29 points out of Grant to beat Stringer.

Hamlet has Pettigrew, Titus Young, and a 4 point lead against Retrovertigo's Jennings and Packers D.

Omni has Julio Jones, Hanson, and a 7 point lead against RNATB's Michael Turner and Crosby.