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Old 07-25-2011, 04:35 PM
MPB in Salt Lake MPB in Salt Lake is offline
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Why Did Queen Elizabeth II Hate Princess Diana?

Late last night I was bored and watching TV, and I happened upon a showing of "The Queen" here on one of SLC's broadcast networks (I don't have cable) and I started watching the film about 20 minutes after it had started, which itself is EXTREMELY rare for me---One of my biggest pet-peeves in the world is trying to watch a movie after it has begun, even if it's only been a matter of 2 or 3 minutes. It is something I virtually NEVER do, as I always have the feeling that I have missed something absolutely crucial to understanding the totality of the plot....

Anyway, I don't know what I must have missed, but apparently according to the writers of "The Queen", Queen Elizabeth II and her husband (don't know his title) absolutely LOATHED Princess Di, and were not sorry in the least when she was killed in the car accident in Paris.

I know next to nothing about Britain's Royal Family or their various family dramas, and not very much about Diana's life either; Can anyone tell me if QEII really hated Diana so passionately, and if so, why?

Just curious, and looking for opinions of Dopers from any country, although English Dopers' contributions would certainly be especially welcome....
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:41 PM
Swallowed My Cellphone Swallowed My Cellphone is offline
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The Royals don't like to air their dirty laundry. Diana marriage to Charles was always a little messy, and they were trying to keep it from being publicly messy.

Then Diana did that interview with Martin Bashir (yes, the same guy who did that Michael Jackson interview - not a good sign) and they didn't like how it portrayed the Royal Family. You have to remember Diana was going around publicly accusing her sons' nanny of getting pregnant with and aborting Charles's baby among other things. So she was a little bit trainwrecky, and yet was cultivating a lot of public sympathy.

Basically, they were trying to run a tight ship from a PR perspective, but she didn't toe the line the way they wanted her too. She was really popular, so they had to tread carefully or else they'd come across looking like the bad guys in the eyes of public opinion.

At least that's the impression I got back in the 1990s. I was a student though, so I didn't really follow the politics of it.
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Old 07-25-2011, 06:25 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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I don't know that the movie revealed all of the reasons that they didn't like Diana, but as Swallowed said, the main one that was portrayed was that they hated the fact that she was (1) spilling private personal business in public, and (2) using the press to make the family look bad. They hated Diana's relationship with the paparazzi and the way she would use it to get attention at key moments. And I'm sure they hated it even more because Diana was so good at it and always managed to come out on top as the innocent victim. The marriage, the infidelities, the divorce, the death, the funeral, so far as they were concerned, it was all a family matter -- it was her ex-daughter-in-law and the mother of her grandchildren that died -- that was no one else's fucking business and they hated Diana for forcing them to take it public.

Last edited by Acsenray; 07-25-2011 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:02 PM
YaraMateo YaraMateo is offline
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It was touched on a bit in the movie. They thought she was an upstarter. They felt she was always getting into trouble and doing things royals just didn't do. In many ways, Diana, Princess of Wales was a loose cannon. She made people question royality.

While the film doesn't touch on this. In real life, there is the matter that Diana was the most beloved (publically) royal during her life time. Even more so the Queen Mother (who was seen as the favorite publically before Diana). Diana didn't fall into line. The Queen didn't really enjoy that.

Basicially, she lived a flashy lifestyle and had the media wrapped around her finger. I think they thought she would go quietly into the night after divorce. Not doing that really annoyed them. I often wonder if they (the royal family) had anything to do with her death.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:32 PM
mac_bolan00 mac_bolan00 is offline
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she never carried herself the way her title and status dictated. that's the plain truth. flashy dress, unguarded remarks, attempts to shrug off long-standing traditions. i've a feeling some fools advised her in a lot of ways. if they're around, they should know her ways killed her.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:20 PM
astro astro is offline
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She had very sympathetic side, but the flip side was that she was needy, manipulative, and (from a common sense perspective) not all that bright, although she was cunning when she wanted to be. The real bottom line, however, was that she was emotionally immature, and was a loose cannon anytime she opened her mouth. She also took wild risks for someone in her position, carrying on an affair with guardsman while still married.

A chunk of this can be laid at the door of the royals as she married way too young for someone as immature as she was to begin with, and was basically a breeding machine while Charles expected to be able to continue his affair with Camilla undisturbed.

The Queen despised her mainly because she acted like a child, and refused to behave and act like like a proper Royal wife, and after the divorce was a major league blabber mouth dishing royal dirt.

Last edited by astro; 07-25-2011 at 10:21 PM..
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:41 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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Why is it such a surprise that Elizabeth and Phillip took their son's side in the divorce? Wouldn't most parents do the same?
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:17 AM
SanVito SanVito is online now
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Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake View Post
Anyway, I don't know what I must have missed, but apparently according to the writers of "The Queen", Queen Elizabeth II and her husband (don't know his title) absolutely LOATHED Princess Di, and were not sorry in the least when she was killed in the car accident in Paris.
Whilst I agree with everything everyone else has said, I think the idea that they were quite happy about her death sounds like pretty gross speculation on the part of the programme makers.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:00 AM
septimus septimus is online now
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Perhaps it's an unfit topic outside the BBQ Pit, but I've heard that the happy grandparents were annoyed Harry didn't look more like a Windsor.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:07 AM
alexandra alexandra is offline
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Perhaps it's an unfit topic outside the BBQ Pit, but I've heard that the happy grandparents were annoyed Harry didn't look more like a Windsor.
I don't get this theory. The similarity between Philip and Harry is striking.

In response to the OP, I don't think the film portrayed the royals as happywhen Di died. Letters from Philip to Diana reveal deep affection, IIRC.
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2011, 04:58 AM
YaraMateo YaraMateo is offline
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Perhaps it's an unfit topic outside the BBQ Pit, but I've heard that the happy grandparents were annoyed Harry didn't look more like a Windsor.
Don't know about this, but Charles (and Diana) were both unhappy Harry was a boy. They were hoping for a girl. Some say, despite obligation, they wanted a girl when she was pregnant with William too. Charles was said to make ill remarks about having a son with red hair. So, a double insult in his eyes.

Looking at their relationship now, it's clear they get on well.

Last edited by YaraMateo; 07-26-2011 at 05:00 AM..
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2011, 06:15 AM
Jim's Son Jim's Son is offline
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Originally Posted by YaraMateo View Post
It was touched on a bit in the movie. They thought she was an upstarter. They felt she was always getting into trouble and doing things royals just didn't do. In many ways, Diana, Princess of Wales was a loose cannon. She made people question royality.

While the film doesn't touch on this. In real life, there is the matter that Diana was the most beloved (publically) royal during her life time. Even more so the Queen Mother (who was seen as the favorite publically before Diana). Diana didn't fall into line. The Queen didn't really enjoy that.

Basicially, she lived a flashy lifestyle and had the media wrapped around her finger. I think they thought she would go quietly into the night after divorce. Not doing that really annoyed them. I often wonder if they (the royal family) had anything to do with her death.

I doubt very much that the Windsors had anything to do with the fact that Diana and the other three people in the car weren't wearing seatbelts. Plus I remember at the time that some American EMT''s questioned the way their French counterparts handled the accident.

Without getting too deeply into this since I haven't seen the movie (and how many movies are there that don't try to exaggerate one side's faults?), didn't the Windsors do things that were normal by their standards but not by others? For example, initially the flag wasn't lowered at the palace. this caused people to say that they didn't care she was dead but some analysts pointed out that it was royal custom..that the flag wouldn't have been lowered if it was Liz herself that was dead. The old 'the king is dead, long live the king" idea.
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Old 07-26-2011, 06:28 AM
Fionn Fionn is offline
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Why is it such a surprise that Elizabeth and Phillip took their son's side in the divorce? Wouldn't most parents do the same?
Indeed they would. The reasons the Windsors disliked Diana, if they did, are remarkably similar to the reasons anyone would have for disliking a former in-law.
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2011, 06:41 AM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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The movie actually downplayed the how upset the Mountbatten-Windsors were. As has emerged since Charles broke down when he heard of Diana's death and also did again when he saw her body. The Queen was stiff lipped, but upset.

The thing is despite the whole corny "peoples princess" bullshit that was being raised at the time; Diana was from a very blue blooded family, her family knew the Royals very well; she was Prince Andrew's playmate for instance.

Finally I also saw the movie recently and looking back at the funeral and remembering what it was at the time; God the reaction seems strange and weird, perhaps because it seems less of a tragedy in these times of war and recession then it did in that era of peace and properity.
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:10 AM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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As has emerged since Charles broke down when he heard of Diana's death and also did again when he saw her body.
The latter scene is in the movie.

Quote:
Finally I also saw the movie recently and looking back at the funeral and remembering what it was at the time; God the reaction seems strange and weird, perhaps because it seems less of a tragedy in these times of war and recession then it did in that era of peace and properity.
What a strange week that was.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:32 PM
Cliffy Cliffy is offline
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Whilst I agree with everything everyone else has said, I think the idea that they were quite happy about her death sounds like pretty gross speculation on the part of the programme makers.
I've seen the movie several time and I don't think the OP characterizes the, uh, characterization, accurately. The royal family's private reaction was portrayed quite consistently with that of any family who learns that someone they knew well and weren't particularly fond of died in sudden, tragic circumstance. Very upset but at a loss to process the distaste they felt for her while alive with the grief they feel for her now.

Right after the accident, while Diana's still alive, the Queen prohibits Charles from taking the royal jet down to bring her back for treatment, but that's in a (tin-eared) effort to **comply** with popular desires that the royals not be so extravagant. And indeed, that's the theme of the movie -- how Diana's death exposed nothing negative about the Queen's **humanity**, but rather her incapacity for understanding what the people wanted in their sovereign. She works hard to keep up a stiff upper lip despite having taken an emotional blow because she assumes the people need that of her -- to be a bastion of strength they can lean on, while the people just see it as coldness.

It's a great movie. Definitely worth seeing.

--Cliffy
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:38 PM
Mk VII Mk VII is online now
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You're not seriously taking your history from movies, are you? Since Her Maj has never voiced her thoughts on the subject (or anything, save the most commonplace of subjects) it's hardly a basis for analysis.
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  #18  
Old 07-26-2011, 01:51 PM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post
I've seen the movie several time and I don't think the OP characterizes the, uh, characterization, accurately. The royal family's private reaction was portrayed quite consistently with that of any family who learns that someone they knew well and weren't particularly fond of died in sudden, tragic circumstance. Very upset but at a loss to process the distaste they felt for her while alive with the grief they feel for her now.

Right after the accident, while Diana's still alive, the Queen prohibits Charles from taking the royal jet down to bring her back for treatment, but that's in a (tin-eared) effort to **comply** with popular desires that the royals not be so extravagant. And indeed, that's the theme of the movie -- how Diana's death exposed nothing negative about the Queen's **humanity**, but rather her incapacity for understanding what the people wanted in their sovereign. She works hard to keep up a stiff upper lip despite having taken an emotional blow because she assumes the people need that of her -- to be a bastion of strength they can lean on, while the people just see it as coldness.

It's a great movie. Definitely worth seeing.

--Cliffy
You should read some proper books then. The Queen and Di; the untold story spends a lot of time on it; and based upoin recollections and interviews of people who were there. The family was very upset when it happend and genuinely did not know what to do. The movie showcases a lot of the latter; not much of the former; even though pretty much source states that the family were shattered.
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:27 PM
Sally Mander Sally Mander is offline
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It's a great movie. Definitely worth seeing.

--Cliffy
There's two fairly recent movies on Netflix called "The Queen". One is from 2006 and has Helen Mirren, and the other is from 2009 and is a mini-series from the BBC. I'm guessing it's the first one?
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  #20  
Old 07-26-2011, 03:12 PM
Pai325 Pai325 is offline
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I have often wondered why her own family didn't prepare her a little more. Wasn't her father an equerry? Didn't her sister's husband work for the Queen? Weren't her parents at Court? They knew exactly what life would be like for her, and I am surprised they didn't sit her down and tell her what it would be like. Of course they could have, and she, like many kids, didn't want to hear it.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:48 PM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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She did not have the best of upbringings; parents divorced at 6; remarried both; did not get along with either step parents.
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  #22  
Old 07-26-2011, 07:41 PM
Spectre of Pithecanthropus Spectre of Pithecanthropus is online now
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I don't get this theory. The similarity between Philip and Harry is striking.
But I don't think Philip actually is a Windsor, is he?
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:30 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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I doubt very much that the Windsors had anything to do with the fact that Diana and the other three people in the car weren't wearing seatbelts. Plus I remember at the time that some American EMT''s questioned the way their French counterparts handled the accident.
Seriously -- that's going way into conspiracy theorist territory.


Quote:
Without getting too deeply into this since I haven't seen the movie (and how many movies are there that don't try to exaggerate one side's faults?), didn't the Windsors do things that were normal by their standards but not by others? For example, initially the flag wasn't lowered at the palace. this caused people to say that they didn't care she was dead but some analysts pointed out that it was royal custom..that the flag wouldn't have been lowered if it was Liz herself that was dead. The old 'the king is dead, long live the king" idea.
I haven't seen it either, but I can comment on the flag thing -- the reason it wasn't lowered is that the flag isn't even flown unless the Queen is in residence. So it wasn't even there to begin with.
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:48 PM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is online now
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I have often wondered why her own family didn't prepare her a little more. Wasn't her father an equerry? Didn't her sister's husband work for the Queen? Weren't her parents at Court? They knew exactly what life would be like for her, and I am surprised they didn't sit her down and tell her what it would be like. Of course they could have, and she, like many kids, didn't want to hear it.
As AK84 said, she didn't exactly have a stable home life. Which, in some ways should have made her more prepared for the advent of a mistress in Charles' life - and I suspect was part of the reason she was chosen - she couldn't possibly have been innocent given the scandal her parents were involved in. She had to KNOW. But apparently, she bought into the fairy tale of "Prince Charles has fallen in love" that the rest of the world was sold, not the reality of "The Palace has arranged a marriage for Prince Charles to a Nice Girl with an Appropriate Background because otherwise he might Make A Fool of himself over the Now Married Camilla." And when she discovered she'd been had, she reacted publicly.

Had she done her "job" of breeding two sons, visiting children's hospitals, posing for official pictures, staying out of the limelight except when wearing really ugly hats to Ascot and ignoring her husband's personal life - she'd have been the ideal princess. But she thought that maybe she should get treated with respect, enjoyed the company of celebrities, and she picked "troublesome" causes like AIDS instead of childhood leukemia.
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:57 PM
Eliahna Eliahna is online now
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I don't buy the Queen being happy about Diana's death. She seems to have a good relationship with her grandsons - how could she be happy to see those boys lose their beloved mother?
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:37 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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If anyone was hated by the royal family, it was the Duchess of Windsor. (And possibly the Duke as well). The Queen Mum hated her like poison, believing that the stress of being king drove her husband to an early grave, and never forgave Edward VIII for abdicating. She blamed Wallis Simpson for it.

Diana paled in comparison.
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:43 PM
mac_bolan00 mac_bolan00 is offline
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"Down with the American whore!"
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:12 AM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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Marrying someone 13 years older to you; when you are twenty is never a good idea.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:15 AM
SanVito SanVito is online now
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But I don't think Philip actually is a Windsor, is he?
Eh? He took his wife's family name so, yeah, he's a Windsor, unless marriage counts for nowt these days. Anyway he's still Harry's grandaddy.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:46 AM
ZPG Zealot ZPG Zealot is offline
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I don't buy the Queen being happy about Diana's death. She seems to have a good relationship with her grandsons - how could she be happy to see those boys lose their beloved mother?
Because it got their however beloved, but neurotic/crazy mother out of those boys lives before she could do anymore damage. I think Diana would have been the type of possessive, attention-whore mother who has a melt down of nuclear proportions over her sons getting married.
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:50 AM
Elret Elret is offline
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What in the world would ever lead you to think that? I actually think she'd have gotten on well with Kate, and have no doubt that she'd have been beyond delighted to see her sons happy and in love. Yeah, she had a streak of troublemaker in her, but when it came to those boys when was she anything but a loving mother who made sure they grew up healthy and happy?
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:52 AM
Rilchiam Rilchiam is offline
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And I think she would have squashed Harry's chav-esque behavior he was displaying a few years back. Or it wouldn't have gotten started at all.
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  #33  
Old 07-27-2011, 11:15 AM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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Eh? He took his wife's family name so, yeah, he's a Windsor, unless marriage counts for nowt these days. Anyway he's still Harry's grandaddy.
Prince Phillip has not taken his wife's name. Ever since he renounced his Greco-Danish titles his surname has been "Mountbatten". In fact Prince Charles & Princess Anne were born with that surname. Then when his wife became Queen his uncle, Lord Mountbatten, started boasting that the "House of Mountbatten" was on the throne which pissed off the Queen Mother. She convinced the Prime Minister (Winston Churchill) to advise the Queen to issue a proclamtion "confirming" that the royal family's name was still Windsor. Which she did resulting in her children's surnames (if they were to ever use them) changing to Windsor (leading to Prince Phillip's famous comment about being "a bloody amba"). She later decreed that her male-line decendants wound have the surname "Mountbatten-Windsor".

Historically a queen-regnant's husband does not take her surname (or more properly become a member of her house). Both spouses retaint their birth name/houses and the offpring either become members of the father's house (which gains possesion of the relevant crown) or a new house is formed by combining their names. Queen Victoria remained a member of the House of Hanover (which Prince Albert did not join), but her son (Edward VII) was a member of his father's house, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. This house is still on the throne, but it's name was changed to Windsor. Charles can change it when he becomes king (unless of course the Prime Minister objects).
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:12 PM
TruCelt TruCelt is offline
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It's interesting that Fergie has turned out to be exactly what they feared Diana would become. But Di never really took it too far. She did get the blame for them entering a more modern definition of themselves, and I think it's hogwash. The royalty was nearly dead and was fading quietly. She made them relevant again, and her eldest son is their last hope. IMHO of course.

Charles was never popular and would never have become so; Di was just a startling contrast against which to view his faults.

I do think that EII has lived a life of duty and stoicism, and expects the same of others. Profiles often blame Charles's cold early life on his Father's educational decisions, but I'm not sure he's solely to blame. I think deep down EII is iron and asbestos. She does seem to be becoming more emotional in her old age though. Will's wedding was the first time I've ever seen her looking fondly at anyone. Phillip too strangely enough. They both looked more openly happy than I had ever expected to see them.

Mind you, this is all the opinion of an American who mostly just wants to see what hats everybody will be wearing. I haven't researched the thing or even seen the movie. But these are my impressions.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:11 PM
alexandra alexandra is offline
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But I don't think Philip actually is a Windsor, is he?
I assumed Septimus was alluding to the theory that Harry was a product of one of Diana's affairs, and not Charles' biological son. I don't believe this as Harry looks so much like his paternal grandfather.

I got the same from the film as Cliffy. Apparently the Queen liked it.

Last edited by alexandra; 07-27-2011 at 01:12 PM..
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