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  #1  
Old 08-05-2011, 12:38 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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Tiger is back. all Hail tiger

Tiger Woods is playing again. He is way, way back. He shot a respectable 68 yesterday, but is 3 over today.
We had it all wrong. Stevie Williams is leading the tournament with his new golfer Adam Scott. Who knew it was Stevie all the time who made Tiger?
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2011, 01:14 PM
Great Antibob Great Antibob is offline
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He had a decent day yesterday. Started out slow but picked up on the back 9.

I'll reserve judgment until he has a couple more tournaments under his belt. He's already performing better than I expected coming back from an extended break.
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2011, 01:40 PM
astorian astorian is offline
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He had a decent day yesterday. Started out slow but picked up on the back 9.

I'll reserve judgment until he has a couple more tournaments under his belt. He's already performing better than I expected coming back from an extended break.
"Wait and see" is a sound, sane, intelligent response.

Too bad all the reporters roaring "HE'S BAAAAAACK!" yesterday didn't take that same approach.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2011, 02:15 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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He was +1 today, not +3 (never was +3 at any point). ~t37th in a 76 player field. Much better than last year when he finished t78 in an 80 player field. Obviously not sharp.

If he doesn't improve this week and next, he will probably miss the FedEx playoffs.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2011, 10:29 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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n Tiger missed a 2 footer. He was the best chipper on the planet. Now it is not so.
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2011, 05:54 AM
bucketybuck bucketybuck is offline
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Am I missing something here? On his first tournament back from an extended layoff through injury, Tiger Woods plays a solid round, no more no less.

Is that not what everybody would expect to happen?

This OP sounds far to keen to gloat against Tiger Woods, when to my non-golf playing eyes the situation does not warrant it at all.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:15 AM
astorian astorian is offline
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The OP IS gloating, and that IS inappropriate.

But not nearly as inappropriate as the gushing that came from the media, who acted as if his decent-but-not-great showing on Thursday proved Tiger is back on top.

The media care infinitely more about Tiger Woods than they do about golf, and from a business perspective, that's understandable. The viewing audience shrinks drastically when he's not playing or not in contention.

But BECAUSE the desperately media want him back on top, they tend to seize on ANY decent showing as proof that the old Tiger has returned and will now win 10 straight majors.
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:30 AM
bucketybuck bucketybuck is offline
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But not nearly as inappropriate as the gushing that came from the media, who acted as if his decent-but-not-great showing on Thursday proved Tiger is back on top.
Well, I cant comment on that. Over here it has simply been reported as Tiger Woods playing his first tournament after injury, nothing more than that.
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2011, 11:00 AM
astorian astorian is offline
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Well, I cant comment on that. Over here it has simply been reported as Tiger Woods playing his first tournament after injury, nothing more than that.
And that's appropriate- but ESPN and other American media outlets are acting as Tiger's cheerleaders, rather than as reporters.
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2011, 11:47 AM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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Originally Posted by astorian View Post
The OP IS gloating, and that IS inappropriate.

But not nearly as inappropriate as the gushing that came from the media, who acted as if his decent-but-not-great showing on Thursday proved Tiger is back on top.

The media care infinitely more about Tiger Woods than they do about golf, and from a business perspective, that's understandable. The viewing audience shrinks drastically when he's not playing or not in contention.

But BECAUSE the desperately media want him back on top, they tend to seize on ANY decent showing as proof that the old Tiger has returned and will now win 10 straight majors.
Reread please. There was no gloating. I said he shot a respectable 68, and then dropped back with a 71. Where is the gloat?
I noted Steve's new boss is leading. A fact. How much is due to his great caddying ability?
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2011, 01:02 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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Tiger shot 72 today. he is 13 strokes back.
I will go on record. I want Tiger to beat Nicklaus's majors. I am not anti Tiger.
But he is way off doing that.

Last edited by gonzomax; 08-06-2011 at 01:03 PM..
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2011, 01:28 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Gonzo, you did say he was three over on Friday. But that never happened. the worse he ever got was 2 over.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2011, 01:35 PM
DKW DKW is online now
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If this were an ordinary star, say, Ernie Els, or Padraig Harrington, or even Phil Mickelson, I'd be baffled at the hype. But Woods was SO overwhelmingly, transcendingly dominant, and for so incredibly long (#1 for nearly 12 years!), you really just gotta deal with it now. There is a crop of young stars which is starting to look really good...finally (what the hell happened, Sergio?)...but no worldbeating alpha male dai-yokozuna king of kings has emerged. Keep in mind that Tiger's still young, not even 40 yet. As long as there's the slightest possibility of him making a run at Nicklaus' supreme record, the media will cheer him on.

Me, I don't have a dog in this fight anymore. There was a stretch where I was really worried that someone with his infamously lousy attitude would push aside a class act like Nicklaus (my heart skipped a beat when, ever so briefly, he was in the sole lead in the final round of the Masters), but now that it looks increasingly unlikely, I'm content to just watch and enjoy the ride.

As for Steve Williams, well, I'd be surprised if he didn't at least get a good chuckle out of this.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2011, 01:52 PM
astorian astorian is offline
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I Keep in mind that Tiger's still young, not even 40 yet.
That's what I keep hearing... but it's not true. If Tiger were a doctor, a lawyer, a stockbroker, an accountant, THEN he'd be young. But a 35 year old with bad knees is NOT young in the world of sport.

Hey, as a 50 year old man, I feel weird saying a man much younger than myself is "getting old." But he is.
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2011, 02:33 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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Gonzo, you did say he was three over on Friday. But that never happened. the worse he ever got was 2 over.
So that is better? He is way, way back.
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  #16  
Old 08-06-2011, 02:49 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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I hope Adam Scott wins, and says something like this in his acceptance speech:

I couldn't have done this without my caddie, Stevie Williams. He's such a great caddie, I hope we're working together for the rest of my career. I'd have to be nuts to let him go!
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2011, 06:33 PM
brocks brocks is offline
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But BECAUSE the desperately media want him back on top, they tend to seize on ANY decent showing as proof that the old Tiger has returned and will now win 10 straight majors.
Do you have an actual quote from a media professional predicting anything like 10 straight majors, or do you just feel tough when you knock over straw men?

I'll bet my house right now that you can't find a professional commentator who has even predicted Tiger will win the next ONE major in a row.
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  #18  
Old 08-06-2011, 08:12 PM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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I think Tiger failing is much better for the media than business as usual of Tiger kicking ass. Sure, when and if he finally regains his form it will be big news for a while, but i bet a lot more people like reading about him failing.
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  #19  
Old 08-06-2011, 08:29 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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But they won't watch golf. Tiger carries the sport on his back. It was a 3rd tier sport before Tiger came along, and it will be a 3rd tier sport after he's gone. He brought a large audience of non-golf fans who were watching to see history, not because they really cared about the game.

I admit that I never watched golf before Tiger, and still don't give a shit about a tournament if he's not contending. Once he leaves the sport for good, so will I. I am far from alone. Let's face it, the sport without Tiger is just a bunch of rich, white country club Republican assholes playing a lawn game in ridiculous clothes.
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  #20  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:07 PM
MadTheSwine MadTheSwine is offline
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
But they won't watch golf. Tiger carries the sport on his back. It was a 3rd tier sport before Tiger came along, and it will be a 3rd tier sport after he's gone. He brought a large audience of non-golf fans who were watching to see history, not because they really cared about the game.

I admit that I never watched golf before Tiger, and still don't give a shit about a tournament if he's not contending. Once he leaves the sport for good, so will I. I am far from alone. Let's face it, the sport without Tiger is just a bunch of rich, white country club Republican assholes playing a lawn game in ridiculous clothes.
Has it been a month already? Time flies.

Golf is more exciting now than it has ever been,there are plenty of young stars(many of them non-white(and I doubt republican)) that make it very fun to watch.

GO ADAM AND STEVE!
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  #21  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:35 PM
Great Antibob Great Antibob is offline
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Golf is more exciting now than it has ever been,there are plenty of young stars(many of them non-white(and I doubt republican)) that make it very fun to watch.
We'll see. As exciting as current golf is for golf fans, most Americans don't actually much about the sport. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think even the most exciting round of golf in history wouldn't get many people to switch channels.
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  #22  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:57 PM
YogSosoth YogSosoth is offline
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I don't like him and hope he never wins again
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  #23  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:59 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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I hope he wins them all. It would be fun for the records and the haters would apoplexy. All that entertainment for free.
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  #24  
Old 08-06-2011, 10:30 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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I really can't believe Fred Couples has announced that he will pick Tiger for the Prez Cup. All tiger has to do is finish in the top 20 of the next two tournaments to qualify for the FedEx Playoffs. And as of right now, it doesn't look like he is going to do that. assuming he treads water tomorrow, he needs a ~top 12 at the PGA next week to qualify. And the PGA will have a stronger and deeper field than this weeks tournament.

Its a shame that players have worked their butts off this year to have the honor of playing in the Prez Cup and someone that basically snubs his nose to the rank/file tournaments can take a spot. He is 26th in the standings. If he somehow gets competitive in the next few weeks, then yes, he should be considered, but if he misses the playoffs, there is no way he should be considered.
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  #25  
Old 08-06-2011, 11:21 PM
Diogenes the Cynic Diogenes the Cynic is offline
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It's a business, not a meritocracy. Tiger draws eyeballs.

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 08-06-2011 at 11:22 PM..
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2011, 08:03 AM
brocks brocks is offline
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Its a shame that players have worked their butts off this year to have the honor of playing in the Prez Cup and someone that basically snubs his nose to the rank/file tournaments can take a spot. He is 26th in the standings. If he somehow gets competitive in the next few weeks, then yes, he should be considered, but if he misses the playoffs, there is no way he should be considered.
Maybe you missed the part about the President's Cup being an exhibition. The players don't get paid for it, nor does it affect their world rankings or any other important stat. If the US loses, Americans do not become enslaved by the winners. It's just a vehicle to gin up interest in golf.

Given that, of course Tiger should play if he wants to. Even now, he generates far more fan interest than any other player, and nobody since Tom Watson has done more to earn the right to represent the US in a ceremonial event.

If you are so concerned about fairness to the poor slobs who "work their butts off" by playing golf for a living, you should write to the organizers of the Masters and British Open, since they let past champions play even if they haven't made a cut in the 30 years since they won, and those events are, you know, actual contests, where money and WGR points are at stake.
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  #27  
Old 08-07-2011, 08:44 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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The Masters? No one is left out of the tournament. Simply You are either qualified or your not qualified. There are no alternates. If Craig Stadler wants to play, no one is left out, the field goes from 100 players to 101 players (or whatever the number is).

British Open? At the top of the qualification list is the past champs. They are qualified until Age 60. Or to age 65 via the Greg Norman/Tom Watson loophole.

I am sure Jack Nicklaus would cause even more eyeballs than even Tiger Woods if Fred Couples picked him for the Presidents Cup. I don't think he should be picked any more than I do Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods missed exactly 6 tournaments that he played last year. If had a similar performance in those events that he did last year, (MC, WD, T19th, T4, T42, T23) he still wouldn't be on the team. Probably about 20th in the standings.

And if it just an "exhibition" why is it so important that TW plays. The event is in Australia. It is going to be played when the most people in the USA are going to be sleeping. It is not going to get great ratings in the USA.
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  #28  
Old 08-07-2011, 09:02 AM
brocks brocks is offline
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I am sure Jack Nicklaus would cause even more eyeballs than even Tiger Woods if Fred Couples picked him for the Presidents Cup.
No, but he would cause more dropped jaws. Jack can't play any more, and he's the first to say so. Tiger's relatively low world ranking (and he's still nearly 20 spots above such "superstars" as Ricky Bieber) is more a result of his injuries than actual performance. If he can stay healthy till the PC, he will certainly be one of the ten best US players. If not, he probably won't play, just as Jack wouldn't if asked.

Quote:
And if it just an "exhibition" why is it so important that TW plays.
It's a game. In the grand scheme of things, nothing about it is important.

Quote:
The event is in Australia.
So you answered your own question. Tiger draws more interest than any other golfer among US fans, but it's not even close between him and any other American golfer for foreign fans.
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  #29  
Old 08-07-2011, 09:10 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Who said anything about Fowler? I certainly did not, he is about 19th in the standings. I wouldn't pick him either. My choice right now would be between three players (Wilson, Snedeker, and Byrd) all which have won a tournament this year.
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  #30  
Old 08-07-2011, 09:23 AM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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And if it just an "exhibition" why is it so important that TW plays.
Because he is the one the most people care about watching? i don't see what is hard to understand about this, it doesn't matter how exciting the game is now because of all the young up and coming superstars. Tiger made golf worth watching for shit tons of people, most of those people don't give a flying fuck about anyone else, golf cares about making money. Hence you get Tiger.
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  #31  
Old 08-07-2011, 10:12 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Ok, lets automatically put the Yankees in the World Series, and the Cowboys in the Superbowl. Those events will get better ratings. Forgive me, I really not interested in pimping the event for the most viewers. I am interested in the integrity of the game.

I think the Oscars show would get more viewers if only the highest grossing movies were nominated.

Last edited by notfrommensa; 08-07-2011 at 10:13 AM..
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  #32  
Old 08-07-2011, 10:34 AM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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Tournaments make money off TV ratings and fans who show up at the gate. Tigers makes them and the tour money. Tiger will get invites if he shows up drunk and naked with 3 blonds on his arm.
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  #33  
Old 08-07-2011, 10:41 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Funny, I always thought the object of sporting events was to win. Yankees would bring more viewers to the World Series, and ditto Cowboys in the SuperBowl.
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  #34  
Old 08-07-2011, 10:53 AM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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For the players it is, for the business suits it has always been and will always be money. If MLB thought giving the Yankees an automatic World Series berth would be good for business you bet your ass they would do it, to think otherwise is incredibly naive.
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  #35  
Old 08-07-2011, 11:04 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Fred Couples should not be pandering to the Suits. If he is, then he has a conflict of interest. I am saying that Tiger should show a little bit of form before he gets selected. And it is not unreasonable for form to include some decent finishes in this weeks event (and next week's PGA) to make the FedEx Playoffs. In all probability, all it will take is two finishes inside the top 20 and as of right now, he is not trending to do that.

FTR, I am not suggesting that Couples not pick Woods, I am suggesting that he should wait to see if he has a golf game. If plays well, by all means, pick him. But if finishes 34th this week and 28th next week, I do not think he should be considered.
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  #36  
Old 08-07-2011, 11:09 AM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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And i am saying Tiger will get a lot more viewers than no Tiger no matter how well he plays and viewers are the most important thing for an exhibition. Just read Dio's post, there are A LOT more of him around than of you.

Last edited by DigitalC; 08-07-2011 at 11:12 AM..
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  #37  
Old 08-07-2011, 11:16 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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I am not arguing that fact of increased veiwership. And FWIW, it is more than just an exhibition. The PGATour wants this thing to become the equivalent of the Ryder Cup. (which IMO, it will never will be). But, right or wrong, that is the PGATour's vision. The PGATour garners no revenue from the Ryder Cup, (Ryder Cup belongs to the PGA of America) and they PGATour wants a similar event in prestige. Sacrificing the integrity of the event by pandering to TV networks is not the best way to do that.

Last edited by notfrommensa; 08-07-2011 at 11:16 AM..
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  #38  
Old 08-07-2011, 11:29 AM
brocks brocks is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
Ok, lets automatically put the Yankees in the World Series, and the Cowboys in the Superbowl.
I answered this two posts ago:

1. The World Series and Super Bowl count; the PC doesn't

2. They DO automatically let Jack and Arnie play the Masters, if they want to play.
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  #39  
Old 08-07-2011, 11:41 AM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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The thing is, it is not a small difference. There is a gigantic difference in popularity between golf with Tiger and golf without Tiger, that is not something any business can ignore even if compromises the integrity of the game in some peoples eyes.
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  #40  
Old 08-07-2011, 11:49 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Ask the players if they think that the Prez Cup counts or doesn't count. Remember the controversy in South Africa in 2003? And once again, if Arnie and Jack decide to play the Masters, they will not be taking a spot away from anyone. I wonder how many times and how many ways that I can that THERE ARE NO ALTERNATES at Augusta. The field size simply increases.
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  #41  
Old 08-07-2011, 11:54 AM
brocks brocks is offline
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The PGATour garners no revenue from the Ryder Cup, (Ryder Cup belongs to the PGA of America) and they PGATour wants a similar event in prestige.
Prestige is conferred by the players, not by the event. There is a World Team Matchplay Championship, whose name escapes me, because the US is usually represented by players that most people never heard of. If Tiger and Phil had played it for the last 15 years, it would be a big event.

The British Open was skipped by almost all the top American players before Arnie started playing it. And Einstein brought a lot more fame to the Nobel Prize than the converse.

The President's Cup will never be anything more than an exhibition. I watch it because it's a chance to see some of my favorite players. I couldn't care less which side wins. You might as well complain about the "integrity" of the Skins Game.

Last edited by brocks; 08-07-2011 at 11:57 AM..
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  #42  
Old 08-07-2011, 12:05 PM
brocks brocks is offline
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Ask the players if they think that the Prez Cup counts or doesn't count.
I'd bet that if they were honest, most of the guys over 30 would say they wouldn't lose much sleep if they got rid of the thing. But of course they can't say that, because they'd be accused of wanting the terrorists to win, or something.
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  #43  
Old 08-07-2011, 12:11 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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If they didn't care, I can't imagine why Steve Stricker would fly halfway around the world during his precious deer season. (He didn't play in the lucrative Far East events last fall). Ditto, David Toms and LSU Football, and Jim Furyk and his Pittsburgh Steelers. FWIW, If Toms or Furyk do qualify (they are on the bubble) for the event, it would not surprise me if they come up with a mysterious back ailment. Stricker is going to qualify, and the same thing applies. but if they do go, I can't imagine that they are not going halfway around the world to lose.
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  #44  
Old 08-07-2011, 01:28 PM
astorian astorian is offline
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If Fred Couples picks Tiger, it won't be for the ratings (that's the networks' concern, not his). It will be because he thinks the possible upside is much greater with Tiger than with the #12 ranked American golfer.

IF Tiger is anywhere close to healthy by the time the Ryder Cup is played, is there ANY doubt he's a guy you'd want on your team?
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  #45  
Old 08-07-2011, 01:46 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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He said he was 100% going into this weekend. And is going to finish right around T38th. On a course that he has owned.
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  #46  
Old 08-07-2011, 02:11 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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as of 3 pm et, and according to the PGATour at the Bridgestone Stats, Tiger was 76th in Driving Accuracy. There were only 76 players in the field.

That does not bode well for him in Atlanta next week where it is rumored that the bermuda rough is very deep and fairways narrow.

Last edited by notfrommensa; 08-07-2011 at 02:12 PM..
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  #47  
Old 08-07-2011, 02:14 PM
brocks brocks is offline
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He said he was 100% going into this weekend.
He said he was 100% healthy. He also said that he had been hitting full shots for just two weeks, and had been working with his swing coach for just one week. I think finishing in the top half of the world's best players on a tough course is doing pretty well under those conditions.

And I think that Phil, Dustin, and Graeme would agree.
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  #48  
Old 08-07-2011, 02:23 PM
brocks brocks is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
as of 3 pm et, and according to the PGATour at the Bridgestone Stats, Tiger was 76th in Driving Accuracy. There were only 76 players in the field.
That does not bode well for him in Atlanta next week where it is rumored that the bermuda rough is very deep and fairways narrow.
For once we agree. Although he hit some good drives this week, overall his driving sucked, especially today.

Before today, his driving stats were misleading. A missed fairway can be missed by a foot or by 50 yards, and most of his misses were pretty near misses, up to the the sixth hole today.

But then he started missing fairways by 50 yards. I doubt he can fix it in three days. Hopefully, he can fix it by next year.
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  #49  
Old 08-07-2011, 02:52 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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He has hit 40 million drives in his life. Why the hell can't he come close to hitting fairways? There is a repetitive factor. He should pound fairways to death.
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  #50  
Old 08-07-2011, 03:41 PM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is offline
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The thing is, it is not a small difference. There is a gigantic difference in popularity between golf with Tiger and golf without Tiger, that is not something any business can ignore even if compromises the integrity of the game in some peoples eyes.
I'd have to say that Tiger was not missed at The Open this year. Not really. Come the end of the week I'd barely realised he wasn't there. No-one was talking about the tournament being devalued, he really wan't a topic of conversation at all. In retrospect, that is surprising.

I agree he is still a big draw but his star is certainly waning and there is a fine line between cheering on Tiger for the win, and cheering him on because of past wins. If crowds start doing the latter before he is 40 that may be a tough one for him.
It may be that he is the one more concerned for the integrity of the game.
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