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  #151  
Old 11-20-2011, 09:58 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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This fall is mirroring nearly exactly what happened last year. Lets review:

Ryder Cup 3-1-0, record, on a losing team, getting skunked in his one loss
China t6th place
JBWere Australia 4th against a 4th tier field
Chevron 2nd place (where he choked a big lead going into final round)

Looks pretty similar to this year doesn't it

Everybody expectations were high, particularly after opening with 69-69 at Torrey Pines.

He Finished 74-75 (or 75-74) and finished well back, T40 something. On Sunday, he played with a rookie who opined that Tiger "mailed it in".

Dubai, on the fringe of contention, laid the sod over a wedge shot on the 72nd and finished T20.

Matchplay, on the 19th hole, couldn't find the planet on his shot in his first round match.
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  #152  
Old 11-20-2011, 12:04 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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Those Presidents Cup greens are not the place to find your putting touch.
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  #153  
Old 11-20-2011, 04:39 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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Tiger won the Presidents Cup today. Furyk was a helper though.
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  #154  
Old 11-20-2011, 04:58 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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pure hyperbole.

Tiger happen to win the clinching point and won 2 points total out of the 18 needed and the 19 total points the US team won.

The team won the Presidents Cup.
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  #155  
Old 11-20-2011, 05:02 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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That was the headline on ESPN site earlier. How could it be wrong?
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  #156  
Old 11-20-2011, 06:46 PM
brocks brocks is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
This fall is mirroring nearly exactly what happened last year. Lets review:
Ryder Cup 3-1-0, record, on a losing team, getting skunked in his one loss
China t6th place
JBWere Australia 4th against a 4th tier field
Chevron 2nd place (where he choked a big lead going into final round)
Looks pretty similar to this year doesn't it
As I said, his results last fall were better than this year. The T6 at the HSBC alone was better than anything he's done since this year's Masters.

His driving is still a crap shoot, and he's only had one really good day of putting. IMO the most encouraging thing about the last two weeks is his short game, especially the bunker play, which just sucked most of the year.

But the experts say his swing is a lot better now. He's even won over Miller and Chamblee.

It's unrealistic to expect him to ever get back to his best, which IMO was the best ever. But he doesn't have to do that.

He had a peak that was ten years long, from May 1999 to June 2008, during which he won 13 majors, 15 WGCs, 57 PGA events, six Euro Tour events, and two Japan tour events. Nobody will ever do that again.

But if he does "only" half that well in the next ten years, i.e. 3 PGA wins a year, and a major every other year, he will end up with over 100 wins and 19 majors, which isn't bad.

Of course, I have no objections to him getting all the way back, and winning five majors in a year and a half.
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  #157  
Old 11-20-2011, 07:53 PM
gonzomax gonzomax is offline
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I hope he plays in every damn tournament he can find. He needs the work.
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  #158  
Old 11-20-2011, 09:20 PM
brocks brocks is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
pure hyperbole.
Tiger happen to win the clinching point and won 2 points total out of the 18 needed and the 19 total points the US team won.
The team won the Presidents Cup.
Correct. Tiger had a losing record this week, and if he hadn't, the US would have clinched the cup before he beat Baddeley on Sunday. He shouldn't have said anything about his match clinching it.

On the other hand, it was IMO a fairly muted response to incredibly crass provocation from Greg Norman. What kind of a moron says that one of the other teams player's shouldn't have been picked? And as if repeating it for weeks before the match wasn't enough, he even repeated it after his team lost!

One of Norman's captain's picks was the only guy to go 0-4 this century, and lost 7 and 5 in singles. And this idiot thinks he should have had MORE picks????

People talk about Tiger holding a grudge, but Norman is clearly not over Tiger displacing him as the perennial #1 in the world.
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  #159  
Old 03-12-2012, 11:23 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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So, a few months into the New Year... how's Tiger doing now? Will he ever be on the top of the golfing heap again?
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  #160  
Old 03-12-2012, 12:25 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
So, a few months into the New Year... how's Tiger doing now? Will he ever be on the top of the golfing heap again?
Last seen, he was being tracked by Snoopy II blimp in a black Mercedes on the freeways of Miami after limping off the golf course and saying "No Mas" in final round of a one of the bigger tournaments of the year (non-Major).

Just as the TW faithful was working themselves into a lather in anticipation of a return to championship form, he re-injures his Achilles. 8 days he shot a fantastic final found but still came up 2 shots shy of the best golfer in the game, Rory McIlroy.

IMO, he is "just another (professional) golfer" these days. There is nothing special about his game anymore. There are dozens of golfer who can hit it and putt just as well as he can. He still moves the needle, much like Charlie Sheen moved needle in Hollywood a year ago.

His greatest asset, Mental Fortitude, was lost when he hit a fire hydrant on Thanksgiving weekend 2009.

He was not won on the PGAT in 30 months, since September 2009. He did win an exhibition late last year that had some highly ranked players but it was only 18 players.
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  #161  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:52 PM
mkecane mkecane is offline
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Tiger's back! All hail Tiger!

McDowell is looking good today, too. This ain't over.
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  #162  
Old 03-25-2012, 05:29 PM
Gangster Octopus Gangster Octopus is offline
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Originally Posted by mkecane View Post
Tiger's back! All hail Tiger!

McDowell is looking good today, too. This ain't over.
Now it is and I, for one, am glad. I hope this is the beginning of another great run by Tiger, because when he was on there was nothing more exciting. I think he will win the Masters, he played well there even when he wasn't playing well over all.
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  #163  
Old 03-25-2012, 05:42 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Originally Posted by mkecane View Post
Tiger's back! All hail Tiger!

McDowell is looking good today, too. This ain't over.
G-Mac was putting like shit on the back nine, though. Especially compared to how he was dropping putts like crazy on the front.

Still, waaaaaaaaay too early to sound the alarm about Tiger being back. It makes good copy, but golf is a lot more complicated than that.
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  #164  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:37 AM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
IMO, he is "just another (professional) golfer" these days. There is nothing special about his game anymore.
I'm kind of new here, so somebody remind me: what do you call it when the poster's name and the post's content match up really well?

Last edited by TonySinclair; 03-26-2012 at 07:38 AM..
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  #165  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:43 AM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Still, waaaaaaaaay too early to sound the alarm about Tiger being back. It makes good copy, but golf is a lot more complicated than that.
Actually, it's quite simple. The lowest score wins. Tiger was five shots lower than anyone else. It was the largest margin of victory since last year's US Open.

Last edited by TonySinclair; 03-26-2012 at 07:44 AM..
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  #166  
Old 03-26-2012, 01:27 PM
Idle Thoughts Idle Thoughts is offline
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Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
I'm kind of new here, so somebody remind me: what do you call it when the poster's name and the post's content match up really well?
TonySinclair, we have a forum you can go to if you want to insult other posters. This forum isn't it. Please don't insult anyone else in any forum outside of the BBQ Pit.
Not a warning, just a note.
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  #167  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:13 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
Actually, it's quite simple. The lowest score wins. Tiger was five shots lower than anyone else. It was the largest margin of victory since last year's US Open.
That is spin.

it was a nice win by Tiger. His first win against a decent full sized field in 30+ months. Other players have just as good as wins as him. It was a good field, It was NOT a great field. Lots and lots of players have Good wins and they are just another golfer.

Going into last week, there were only two of the top eleven in the World Rankings. They were #8 Justin Rose and #7 Webb Simpson.

#1 Luke Donald - Not in the field
#2 Rory McIlroy - Not in the field
#3 Lee Westwood - Not in the field
#4 Martin Kaymer - Not in the field
#5 Steve Stricker - Not in the field
#6 Charl Schwartzel - Not in the field
#9 Adam Scott - Not in the field
#10 Jason Day - Not in the field
#11 Dustin Johnson - Not in the field

The field had depth, not any real quality. A good win, not a great win. Head to Head, Tiger has not beaten Rory McIlroy in nearly year who I think is the best golfer on the planet.

Apparently some TW fans are coming out the woodwork. Tony Sinclair has not been a SDMB member very long but checking his posting history, he has not made one comment on Tiger until yesterday. And his first one, in the thread that he started yesterday, he used the inflammatory word I have seen in golf forums, "HATER". Those kind of insults are the reason why I don't post in the golf forums. One forum that I read lit up like a Macy's Xmas tree last night with new posters.

It is literally impossible to be Tiger Woods critic without be labeled as a HATER or worse yet, a RACIST. It is tiring. There are golf fans who do not like Tiger Woods because he is arrogant, fake, a liar and a serial adulterer.

He has had a fantastic career, 2nd to none in the current generation, by far, and one of three best ever to play the game. That doesn't mean people have to like him. 45 years ago, many golf fans didn't like Nicklaus and they were not called haters. They just happened to like Palmer and Nicklaus was a threat to that.
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  #168  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:44 PM
Gray Ghost Gray Ghost is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
...[Woods] has had a fantastic career, 2nd to none in the current generation, by far, and one of three best ever to play the game. That doesn't mean people have to like him. 45 years ago, many golf fans didn't like Nicklaus and they were not called haters. They just happened to like Palmer and Nicklaus was a threat to that.
I get that Nicklaus is one of the other two, but who's the other one, IYO? Hogan? Jones? Hagen? I like Tiger winning; it's good for the fiscal health of professional golf. Pity that another African-American hasn't shown up to take the reins. Even if you think that this victory marks a resurgence of Tiger Woods in majors, surely he can't do it for many more years? You can win over 40, as this chart shows, but it isn't that likely.
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  #169  
Old 03-26-2012, 03:13 PM
Lamar Mundane Lamar Mundane is offline
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I get that Nicklaus is one of the other two, but who's the other one, IYO? Hogan? Jones? Hagen? I like Tiger winning; it's good for the fiscal health of professional golf. Pity that another African-American hasn't shown up to take the reins. Even if you think that this victory marks a resurgence of Tiger Woods in majors, surely he can't do it for many more years? You can win over 40, as this chart shows, but it isn't that likely.
Tiger is only 36. He has 16 shots at winning majors before he even turns 40, and he's in better shape than every golfer on that list of winners after 40.
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  #170  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:20 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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GrayGhost: I put Nicklaus #1, Tiger #2, and Hogan #3.

And I think your point about TW is spot on. Tiger has proven himself to be highly fragile and vulnerable to injury. Just two weeks ago, he was carted off the golf course. He claims to be healthy, but that knee was designed to support a 6'1" 140 frame.

Tiger has bulked up to an estimated 190-200 lbs and those knees are supporting an extra ~50 lbs on every step, every day, every swing. His early (Butch) swing has really compromised the left knee with the way he snapped it straight on every swing.
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  #171  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:56 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts View Post
TonySinclair, we have a forum you can go to if you want to insult other posters. This forum isn't it. Please don't insult anyone else in any forum outside of the BBQ Pit.
Not a warning, just a note.
Wow. I am happy to comply with forum rules, but your definition of insults baffles me. If you take my post in the worst possible way, it translates to "That post falls short of genius." I haven't been here long, but I've seen several instances of some of your fellow mods explicitly call posts ignorant and uninformed --- not as mods, just as debate participants.

And the other guy said I came out of the woodwork, which IMO is much more insulting than saying his post did not display genius, besides being a comment about me personally (my alleged resemblance to a roach, I guess), and not about my post. Is this forum like an RPG, where you build up immunity the longer you've been here?
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  #172  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:40 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
Apparently some TW fans are coming out the woodwork. Tony Sinclair has not been a SDMB member very long but checking his posting history, he has not made one comment on Tiger until yesterday. And his first one, in the thread that he started yesterday, he used the inflammatory word I have seen in golf forums, "HATER". Those kind of insults are the reason why I don't post in the golf forums...

It is literally impossible to be Tiger Woods critic without be labeled as a HATER or worse yet, a RACIST. It is tiring.
Well, I'm glad you got all that off of your chest, but it has nothing to do with my post. I didn't call anyone a hater; I said that not even a hater could find much wrong with the way Tiger played yesterday. And since it was the first post in a new thread, it's obvious that I was not directing it at anyone in this forum.

It is so obvious that haters exist that I don't care to debate it, but it is completely false that "it is literally impossible to be a Tiger Woods critic without being labeled as a HATER or a RACIST." I would think that someone who compares Tiger fans to roaches "coming out of the woodwork" would not be complaining about a broad brush, especially one that does not exist.

As to your assertion that Tiger is "just another golfer," and that it is spin that he won Bay Hill by the largest margin since last June, you have not made a case for either. His margin of victory is a simple fact, and Bay Hill is a full field official PGA event, which the people who claimed he would never win again made the standard --- after they moved the goalposts from "anywhere" when he won the Chevron. I suppose that the goalposts have been moved again, to a major win, and that's fine with me. I'm betting he wins at least two this year, barring another injury.

Your assertion that "Lots and lots of players have Good wins and they are just another golfer" is debatable, but I don't want to debate it. I'll just say that there is only one golfer who leads the PGA in total driving, ball striking, and all-around, and who is second to Rory in WGR points earned and scoring average. All that is just from this year, and takes no account of his incredible career.

Right now, Tiger is clearly the best American golfer. His official ranking is 0.12 behind Stricker, but that is based on the last two years. A shorter window, or even a divisor based on the actual number of events played, would put him fourth in the world, after Rory, Luke, and Lee. I will happily concede that he has yet to prove that he is better than the top Euros, but even if you don't think he will do that in the next few months, as I do, it makes no sense to say he's "just another golfer," when he's probably no worse than the third best in the world, and provably no worse than fourth.
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  #173  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:52 PM
Cubsfan Cubsfan is offline
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Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
Wow. I am happy to comply with forum rules, but your definition of insults baffles me. If you take my post in the worst possible way, it translates to "That post falls short of genius." I haven't been here long, but I've seen several instances of some of your fellow mods explicitly call posts ignorant and uninformed --- not as mods, just as debate participants.

And the other guy said I came out of the woodwork, which IMO is much more insulting than saying his post did not display genius, besides being a comment about me personally (my alleged resemblance to a roach, I guess), and not about my post. Is this forum like an RPG, where you build up immunity the longer you've been here?
Have to agree with you there.
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  #174  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:00 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Statistics.

Some facts

2011 Total Driving Leaders: John Merrick (lost his card), Jonathon Rollins,
2010 Total Driving Leaders: Charles Warren (lost his card) Graham DeLaet.

"Figures don't lie but liars figure" TW is trending very well, but to say he is back to his pre November form is premature. He has won exactly one real tournament.

Last month, he got waxed mano-a-mano 64-75 by a Phil Mickelson when both were in contention to win. he was carted off the golf course with 6 holes to play two week ago. Coincidentally, he was 3 over at the time. In Abu Dhabi, he hit 2 fairways and 6 GIR in the final round. In the match play, he beat a deer in the headlight Gonzalo-Fernandez Castano and all he needed to do was be under par against Watney to win that match. couldn't do it.

Bay Hill is a very familiar course with good vibes for him. Its a course he has won 7 times and there was very few highly ranked players.

Clearly the best American golfer IS debatable. Steve Stricker has three wins in the last year, Keegan Bradley has two wins including a major and has been in periphery of contention every week. And he is still getting his feet wet.
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  #175  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:10 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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The "out of the woodwork" comment was not an analogy to cockroaches. I apoloogie if you interpreted it that way. It was just a reflection to your initial comment in the thread you started with the inflammatory word "HATERS" which I see all the time in golf forums when the TW fans cannot counter the critics arguments. they resort to name calling.
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  #176  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:57 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
The "out of the woodwork" comment was not an analogy to cockroaches. I apoloogie if you interpreted it that way.
LOL, you meant it in a good way! With equal sincerity, I thank you for the "apology."
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  #177  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:42 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
Some facts
2011 Total Driving Leaders: John Merrick (lost his card), Jonathon Rollins,
2010 Total Driving Leaders: Charles Warren (lost his card) Graham DeLaet.
Some additional facts:
2010 US Open winner - has not won since 2010
2010 British Open winner - has not won outside of South Africa since then
2011 Masters winner - has not won since then
2011 British Open winner - only finish better than 20th since then was DFL in a field of 12 at the Nedbank

It's almost as if it's really tough to stay on top for long, but that doesn't mean your achievements are meaningless.

Quote:
TW is trending very well, but to say he is back to his pre November form is premature. He has won exactly one real tournament.
Last month, he got waxed mano-a-mano 64-75 by a Phil Mickelson when both were in contention to win. he was carted off the golf course with 6 holes to play two week ago. Coincidentally, he was 3 over at the time.
He was six under for the event, and had only six and a half holes left to play after a perfect drive on 12. He was probably headed for a middle of the pack finish, but if you are implying that he quit because he couldn't win, then you are moving from the category of legitimate criticism into the fringe. He completed all four rounds of the no-cut Bridgestone when he was 10 back after the first round, and finished 30 back of the winner. He has withdrawn from an event four times in his 16 year pro career (not counting the 1998 ATT, when the last round was delayed by six months), and the last time people said he was faking an injury because he was having a bad day, at the 2011 Players, he had to sit out the next two majors.

As for the list of events you gave where he didn't win this year, he has won as many times as anyone else on tour, and more than all but a few. He has earned more WGR points than Phil, after playing in fewer events, and forfeiting his free points at the WGC. And even dragging around his horrendous last two years, his WGR is nine higher than Phil's.

Would you say Phil Mickelson, whom you just cited as an example of someone clearly superior to Tiger, is "just another golfer?"
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  #178  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:06 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Mickelson is 41 years and has debilitating psoriatic arthritis. He "says" the medication is managing. IMO, he has good days and bad days and Sunday at PB was a very good day. I know people with Psoriatic arthritis. they can barely walk and function. Enbrel helps them, but not a great deal. I fully expect Mickelson to call it quits shortly. I think he is done winning. So I think TW got schooled by a cripple 2 months ago.

FTR, we are not talking about GMAC, Darren Clarke, and you are trying to deflect attention to them. I pointed out the winners of the total driving category to point out how meaningless statistics are, especially total driving. The only thing that counts is wins and TW has exactly one in the last 30+ months, in a good, not great field, that contained none of the top 6 players at the time.

And he was 3 over par for the day, and headed south on the leaderboard.

and yes, Phil Mickelson is Just Another Golfer.

For the record, look at the date when I first said Tiger Woods was "Just Another Golfer". And this is the post you originally quoted.
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  #179  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:32 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
and yes, Phil Mickelson is Just Another Golfer.
At least one win in all but three years since 1991; four majors and two WGCs, plus 23 other PGA wins, since 2004; and a first and second in consecutive weeks already this year. All I can say is you have some very high standards.

Quote:
For the record, look at the date when I first said Tiger Woods was "Just Another Golfer". And this is the post you originally quoted.
I don't care when you first said it. The post I saw was from a couple of weeks ago, after Tiger had played well in Australia, won the Chevron, and contended in almost every event he played this year, including that brilliant 62 at the Honda. This is just my opinion, but I don't see how anyone who understands golf could have said he was "just another golfer" after seeing him do that, even if he hadn't won nearly a hundred events around the world. But seeing as how you put Phil in the same class, I'll accept that you simply speak a different language than I do.
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  #180  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:38 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Chevron was 18 player exhibition not a real tournament.

Australia had about 18 noteworthy players and about 100 that had the equivalent ranking the NGA Hooter Tours. about 50 players had a ranking about the same as mine, as in NONE.

when I say "Just Another golfer" it is a reflection of their current game. What Mickelson did in 1993 is irrelevant as what Tiger did in 2000 is irrelevant.

the 62 was done when he was so far back that he had nothing to lose but to go for every pin. Players go low all the time on the PGAT. Brian Harmon (who?) shot 61 that week when the next lowest score that day was 64. Woods bettered Lee Westwood by just one one shot on that Sunday.

And Brian Harmon is just another golfer. PGAT shoot great rounds, that is what they do.

It is only noteworthy the the blind hog finds an acorn, it never noteworthy when the pig goes hungry.
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  #181  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:36 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
when I say "Just Another golfer" it is a reflection of their current game. What Mickelson did in 1993 is irrelevant as what Tiger did in 2000 is irrelevant.
Which is why I noted Tiger's achievements over the last few months, and Phil's just last month.

Besides, you want it both ways. No matter what they do, you can find some reason or another to dismiss the actual recent results of Tiger and Phil, but you have no problem putting great weight on the ailments that you imagine lurk in Phil's future. You're even willing to imply that Phil is lying about his prognosis.

And most bizarre of all, you think Phil is done winning, just a month after he put together the best two weeks of golf we've seen all year from anybody, including Rory.

There is simply no rational basis for that, so it's obvious that you would rather cling to an indefensible position than admit you are wrong. Everybody in the world but you agrees that Tiger and Phil are two of the best golfers on the planet, even based only on 2012 results. They are the first and third favorites to win the Masters next week, if you consider Phil's February win, backed up by a P2, not current enough. They are among the top four most interesting players to watch, regardless of how they are playing in a given week, because they attempt spectacular shots, and usually pull them off.

It's ridiculous to even argue about whether or not they are just ordinary players, so I'll stop doing it.

Last edited by TonySinclair; 03-26-2012 at 10:37 PM..
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  #182  
Old 04-08-2012, 02:35 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
Everybody in the world but you agrees that Tiger and Phil are two of the best golfers on the planet, even based only on 2012 results. They are the first and third favorites to win the Masters next week.
Tiger is so close to putting it all together!
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  #183  
Old 04-08-2012, 04:11 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Tiger is so close to putting it all together!
Hey, he tied with McIlroy!

Seriously, his performance this week was absolutely inexplicable, especially when you consider that he was T4 in the Masters the last two years, when he was playing much, much worse than he has so far this year.

Last edited by TonySinclair; 04-08-2012 at 04:12 PM..
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  #184  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:04 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Just Another Golfer

~~Duck and Run~~

LMAO
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  #185  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:10 PM
Gorsnak Gorsnak is offline
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Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
Hey, he tied with McIlroy!

Seriously, his performance this week was absolutely inexplicable, especially when you consider that he was T4 in the Masters the last two years, when he was playing much, much worse than he has so far this year.
What's inexplicable? Tiger's mental game has been off since his wife came after him with a golf club, which is years now. Winning one tournament was never going to take his head back to the space it was in back in his heyday.
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  #186  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:20 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Just Another Golfer
Are you still on Phil's case?
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  #187  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:22 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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What's inexplicable?
It means impossible to explain.
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  #188  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:45 PM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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It means impossible to explain.
No it isn't. Tiger is Just Another Golfer these days.

That is the explanation.
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  #189  
Old 04-08-2012, 10:45 PM
Gorsnak Gorsnak is offline
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It means impossible to explain.
Then let me repeat. What is hard to explain about a guy who's been playing erratically for a couple years shooting 72-75-72-74 at the Masters?
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:49 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Hey, he tied with McIlroy!

Seriously, his performance this week was absolutely inexplicable, especially when you consider that he was T4 in the Masters the last two years, when he was playing much, much worse than he has so far this year.
Tiger just had an "off week at the wrong time".

He'll be putting it all together very soon, dominating golf and bringing vast relief to the fans and pundits who know that professional golf will not survive without his being in contention to win every tournament.
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  #191  
Old 04-09-2012, 08:56 AM
Lochdale Lochdale is offline
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I get that Nicklaus is one of the other two, but who's the other one, IYO? Hogan? Jones? Hagen? I like Tiger winning; it's good for the fiscal health of professional golf. Pity that another African-American hasn't shown up to take the reins. Even if you think that this victory marks a resurgence of Tiger Woods in majors, surely he can't do it for many more years? You can win over 40, as this chart shows, but it isn't that likely.
I don't think Woods considers himself to be African-American so not sure how that's relevant to him.

I think he will break the record. In fact, my prediction is that he starts his next run by winning the British Open.
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  #192  
Old 04-09-2012, 08:59 AM
Lochdale Lochdale is offline
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Tiger just had an "off week at the wrong time".

He'll be putting it all together very soon, dominating golf and bringing vast relief to the fans and pundits who know that professional golf will not survive without his being in contention to win every tournament.
I don't agree. He's a huge draw but golf has moved on from just being the Tiger show. I'd say ratings for Sunday's final round were very high despite Tiger being out of contention.
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  #193  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:45 AM
Gray Ghost Gray Ghost is offline
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I don't think Woods considers himself to be African-American so not sure how that's relevant to him.

I think he will break the record. In fact, my prediction is that he starts his next run by winning the British Open.
It really doesn't matter what Woods considers himself; what matters is how the giant number of fans that Woods helped bring to professional golf perceive him. And, IMO, they perceive him as African-American. Or are we all under the impression that golf's increased popularity in the late 90s-early 00s was solely because Woods was one of the top three golfers of all time? It certainly wasn't because of Woods's charisma, or ability to work the galleries.

Be that as it may, Ladbroke's tends to agree with you about Tiger's chances at the British Open, where they have him at 6/1 to win. FWIW, he's not won the Open before at Royal Lytham; Duval won in 2001 and Lehman in 1996. So, I'm not sure why he's such a favorite now, other than his overwhelming popularity drives casual betting. Is it because Lytham's a links course, and Tiger has done very well at St. Andrews? If Harrington's game is back, I'd think he'd be a considerable favorite.

I wonder if the R&A is going to have Lytham lengthened, like was done at St. Andrews? It currently plays at 7118 and I don't know if that cuts it anymore in these days of 350 yd drives.

Are there decent numbers showing TV ratings now versus at the height of Tiger's popularity? I know that ESPN is trumpeting their high ratings for Thursday and Friday Masters telecasts, but I'm curious about network television's ratings. A 3.3 rating is great for ESPN, but compares poorly to the 10.1 and 14.1 CBS was getting back in 1997 and 1999. I know, I know, there are many more entertainment options now than then, and many more ways to watch golf than by turning on CBS, but still... I agree with you though that things appear to be better than they were two years ago.
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  #194  
Old 04-09-2012, 10:46 AM
That Don Guy That Don Guy is offline
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Question: do we pencil Tiger in as a Ryder Cup wild card in case he's not in the top 10 Americans after this year's PGA? (Also, IIRC, this year's majors count double for qualifying points, so he might make it in "on merit" anyway - especially if he can keep his drives straight; the US Open tends to reward long, straight drivers.)
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:23 AM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Then let me repeat. What is hard to explain about a guy who's been playing erratically for a couple years shooting 72-75-72-74 at the Masters?
It's hard to explain because in 2010 and 2011, he wasn't just playing erratically, he was playing terribly. He was finishing DFL in no-cut events, and MC in events with a cut. And yet, he finished T4 in the Masters both of those years.

In 2012, up to last week, he was playing consistently well. Nothing like the 2000 Tiger, but he was first in a lot of ball striking categories, had played well in every event (top 20 in every event he finished), and had two wins and two more top threes in the last four months, counting the Chevron.

So even if you were one of the five people in the world who didn't consider him a favorite at the Masters, I doubt that you expected that he would post his lowest Masters finish as a pro, and his lowest pro finish in any major where he made the cut.

Last edited by TonySinclair; 04-09-2012 at 11:27 AM..
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  #196  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:37 AM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Question: do we pencil Tiger in as a Ryder Cup wild card in case he's not in the top 10 Americans after this year's PGA? (Also, IIRC, this year's majors count double for qualifying points, so he might make it in "on merit" anyway - especially if he can keep his drives straight; the US Open tends to reward long, straight drivers.)
I think Davis Love has already said Tiger will play if he's healthy. And if he's healthy, he will easily earn his spot, just like that McIlroy guy he tied with yesterday.

For you guys who go on about how erratic Tiger has been this year, yesterday was the 15th stroke play round that Tiger completed with Rory in the same event. And over those 15 rounds, Tiger has taken a grand total of three shots more than Rory.
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  #197  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:38 AM
notfrommensa notfrommensa is offline
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Originally Posted by That Don Guy View Post
Question: do we pencil Tiger in as a Ryder Cup wild card in case he's not in the top 10 Americans after this year's PGA? (Also, IIRC, this year's majors count double for qualifying points, so he might make it in "on merit" anyway - especially if he can keep his drives straight; the US Open tends to reward long, straight drivers.)
2012 Ryder Cup Standings

Top 8 are automatically qualified, and Captain Davis Love III gets 4 picks.

Tiger is currently 5th in the standings and his lead is tenuous at best. A top 10 finish from #10 Johnson Wagner will launch ahead of Woods. I suspect that TW will not play again until Charlotte (at the earliest and missing three tournaments) and he most likely will be out of the top 8 of the RC standings at that time. Theoretically, as many as 5 players could pass him this week.

But it doesn't matter! DL III has already indicated that he will be picking Tiger if he does not make the team. The only Ryder Cup we have won in this century is the one that TW did not play.

Last edited by notfrommensa; 04-09-2012 at 11:39 AM..
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  #198  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:39 AM
Gangster Octopus Gangster Octopus is offline
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It's hard to explain because in 2010 and 2011, he wasn't just playing erratically, he was playing terribly. He was finishing DFL in no-cut events, and MC in events with a cut. And yet, he finished T4 in the Masters both of those years.

In 2012, up to last week, he was playing consistently well. Nothing like the 2000 Tiger, but he was first in a lot of ball striking categories, had played well in every event (top 20 in every event he finished), and had two wins and two more top threes in the last four months, counting the Chevron.

So even if you were one of the five people in the world who didn't consider him a favorite at the Masters, I doubt that you expected that he would post his lowest Masters finish as a pro, and his lowest pro finish in any major where he made the cut.
I agree, while inexplicable should never be used when talking about golf (because its golf) I do think that his poor performance this time out is out of sync with his recent play when considering also Tiger's affinity for playing Augusta at any time. Like I said once before, I expect Tiger will be t top golfer again, but the Tiger who you could reasonably take against the field is long gone.
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  #199  
Old 04-09-2012, 12:43 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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The only Ryder Cup we have won in this century is the one that TW did not play.
LOL, like it was Tiger's fault that the Euros were so deep in 2010 that the #8 player in the world at the time, Paul Casey, didn't make the team even as a Captain's Pick. These are not the days when Jack and Arnie play against a British-only team with maybe one guy in the world top ten.

For the record, Tiger went 3-1-0, and nobody on either team did better. Meanwhile, everybody gushed over the other Captain's Pick, Ricky Bieber, who didn't win a single match, and possibly cost us the Cup with a bonehead penalty incurred from switching balls in mid-hole.
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  #200  
Old 04-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Lochdale Lochdale is offline
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It really doesn't matter what Woods considers himself; what matters is how the giant number of fans that Woods helped bring to professional golf perceive him. And, IMO, they perceive him as African-American. Or are we all under the impression that golf's increased popularity in the late 90s-early 00s was solely because Woods was one of the top three golfers of all time? It certainly wasn't because of Woods's charisma, or ability to work the galleries.
I'm sorry to derail this thread but I absolutely disagree. As someone who is married to a bi-racial woman it absolutely does matter. People should be allowed classify themsevles however they like (within reason). Woods is proud of his heritage but he's made it clear that he's not solely African-American. We should honour his choice.

Also, I'm not sure how much his involvement has actually done for black participation in golf (I'm happy to be enlightned). What I am sure of is his impact on the popularity of golf globally. Woods has absolutely changed the face of golf and dragged it into an entirely new age. When he hit the scene he was a dominant, exciting golfer whom people paid attention to. The Elvis of golf. His impact shouldn't be underestimated.

He's not the golfer he was but then he is now 36 and injuries are starting to take their toll. He can still win at the majoris but it'll take a lot out of him in the process.
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