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  #1  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:13 PM
Ogre Ogre is offline
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Look, goddamnit. Throw your cigarette butts in the trash!

So, we who are smokers where I work have sort of an informal "smoking porch". It's well away from most pedestrians, it's covered, and it's an infrequently used path for people who work in the building.

Up until last week, it was also really freaking gross. People would just chuck their butts on the ground outside the door. There were thousands of them out there.

Last week, I got tired of looking at it. I swept up all the butts, neatened the place up, picked up the rain-soaked and semi-decayed filter remnants. The whole bit. I put up a politely-worded sign on the brick wall - "Please help keep this area clean. Throw your butts away below. Thank you!"

Directly below the sign, I put a small yellow trash can.

This morning, I went out for a smoke, and on the ground, directly beside the unused trash can, there was a pile of about twenty cigarette butts.

What the hell?! I'm going to strangle someone.
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  #2  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:15 PM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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Even if smoking was not so expensive, and it didn't start fires, and second hand smoke wasn't so dangerous, I'd still hate smokers for the trash they leave on the streets. Butts, empty matchbooks, and cigarette packages belong in the garbage, not on the sidewalks.

Last edited by Annie-Xmas; 08-24-2011 at 12:20 PM..
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:19 PM
guestchaz guestchaz is offline
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Smoker here, I agree. Smokers who can't read, or can't be bothered to adjust their aim to land a cigarette in an correct and obvious recepticle and especially the ones that can't be bothered to pick up when they miss and leave right there NEXT TO THE DAMN CAN...GRRRAAAUUUGGGHHH!!!!! nothing but a bunch of wet sticky smelly butt burps in the diaper of life is what they are.

Last edited by guestchaz; 08-24-2011 at 12:20 PM..
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  #4  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:23 PM
tdn tdn is offline
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As a smoker, I'm on board with this.

As you know, this past winter was particularly nasty. We had one blizzard after another for about a month and a half. All of the snow in the area behind work got plowed into one big pile. As it started to melt in the warmer weather, it revealed thousands of butts. Seriously, thousands. It was severely disgusting.
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:24 PM
redtail23 redtail23 is offline
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Another smoker endorsing your position.

My co-workers know better than to do this in my sight. I *will* bitch them out and make them pick it up.

Good on you for doing the cleanup.
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  #6  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:33 PM
Folacin Folacin is offline
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Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
This morning, I went out for a smoke, and on the ground, directly beside the unused trash can, there was a pile of about twenty cigarette butts.
Based on the large number of butts, I'm guessing some passive-aggressive smoker assumed it was an anti-smoking Nazi that put up the sign and thought they were making some sort of weird point.

Alternatively, some anti-smoking Nazi thought they were making some sort of point by picking up butts from elsewhere and piling them next to your trash can.
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  #7  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:37 PM
Cat Whisperer Cat Whisperer is offline
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I live in a semi-arid area, and my lawn gets seriously dry by the end of summer each year. I don't endorse throwing butts on the road since it's still littering, but I'd prefer that to throwing a still smoldering butt on my TINDER DRY LAWN! Seriously, local smokers, open your eyes and look around - don't burn my house down because you threw to the right instead of the left.
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:57 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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I wonder what percentage of smokers discard their smoking paraphernalia and butts inappropriately? Given that our parking lot at work has hundreds of butts visible on the ground within a mere cursory glance despite cleaning crews picking them up regularly, I'd posit that it must be over 10% and perhaps up to 50%.

But that's just a WAG on my part.
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  #9  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:04 AM
Rachellelogram Rachellelogram is offline
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Your business should have a policy about this. Where I work, you can only smoke on one side of the building, and pretty much everyone uses the little cigarette receptacle they provided to put them out.
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2011, 09:59 AM
Quercus Quercus is offline
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Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
I wonder what percentage of smokers discard their smoking paraphernalia and butts inappropriately? Given that our parking lot at work has hundreds of butts visible on the ground within a mere cursory glance despite cleaning crews picking them up regularly, I'd posit that it must be over 10% and perhaps up to 50%.

But that's just a WAG on my part.
I think 50% is way too low. In my experience, it's about 95%+ of smokers that will toss a butt anywhere outside. I have met a couple dedicated eco-hippies who carefully disposed of their hand-rolled butts, but I'm sure they're way less common than one in 20.
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:32 AM
moejoe moejoe is offline
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Fill the can with sand so it's an ashtray instead of a trash can. If they have to stomp them out on the ground before tossing them in the can they're only going to do the first part.
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:47 AM
Joey P Joey P is online now
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Originally Posted by tdn View Post
As a smoker, I'm on board with this.

As you know, this past winter was particularly nasty. We had one blizzard after another for about a month and a half. All of the snow in the area behind work got plowed into one big pile. As it started to melt in the warmer weather, it revealed thousands of butts. Seriously, thousands. It was severely disgusting.
At work, I've been trying for years to get one of my employees to stop flicking her butts all over the place. I finally had it under control and then she dumped her ashtray in the parking lot, followed by an "it wasn't me" to which I replied "So someone else dumped 30 Newport butts right next to your driver side car door in the last 5 minutes?"

Anyways, in winter her excuse was always "I flicked them in the snowbank, it's not like anyone can see them."

I'm constantly hearing her say "Well, those could be from anyone" "No, they really couldn't, there's not a lot of people who smoke Newport Light 100's in this neighborhood that stand by the back door and only smoke them half way down"
For a while I started taking the butts and putting them under her windshield wipers. That sort of slowed it down.

My biggest problem was when she was going out of her way to hide the butts from me. She would, literally, go 20 feet past the back door to flick the butt behind a soda machine (where I would see it anyways), when if she would, literally, have walked 20 feet in the other direction she could have flicked in the dumpster like the rest of us.
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:52 AM
Soylent Juicy Soylent Juicy is offline
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I wish I could say the title of this thread to every single smoker in my city. When I lived downtown my beagle (rest her soul) and I walked every day. I had a coat rack in my kitchen and one winter day I was all, What's that gross smell? Turned out it was her doggy coat hanging on the coat rack - it smelled like wet ashtray from all the gross soggy cigarette butts on the downtown sidewalks. Seriously, how freakin' hard is it to hold a tiny little cigarette butt in your hand until you reach a garbage can, of which there are like 3 or 4 on each block?!
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:56 AM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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Originally Posted by Quercus View Post
I think 50% is way too low. In my experience, it's about 95%+ of smokers that will toss a butt anywhere outside. I have met a couple dedicated eco-hippies who carefully disposed of their hand-rolled butts, but I'm sure they're way less common than one in 20.
Ironically, I've meet a fair number of smoking folks that you'd consider quite outdoorsy, conservation minded blah blah blah that about stroke out at seeing the random potato chip bag or discarded drink can/bottle littering up the great outdoors. But amazingly these folks also didnt give a second thought to flinging cirgarette butts here, there, and everywhere. I always wonder if their yards are awash in butts?

WTF is up with that?
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:59 AM
Larry Mudd Larry Mudd is offline
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Originally Posted by Quercus View Post
I think 50% is way too low. In my experience, it's about 95%+ of smokers that will toss a butt anywhere outside. I have met a couple dedicated eco-hippies who carefully disposed of their hand-rolled butts, but I'm sure they're way less common than one in 20.
It may depend on your location a bit. In Greener-than-Thou Vancouver, it's pretty common for people (even smokers) to look down on litter.

When I was smoking, I carried an airtight container to keep butts in until they could be disposed of. (I was never a heavy smoker, so a film canister was sufficient to get me between bins.) My worst sin was sometimes putting butts down storm drains. This was about in line with most smokers I knew.

The thing is, a very small number of people who don't give a rat's ass can make a dramatic mess.

I do IT for a property management company, rent in one of our buildings, and get a break on the rent by doing light custodial duties. The building is 18 units and there are a couple of places where smokers congregate by the doors fairly frequently. (I can't guess how many individuals are represented, but enough to generate occasional complaint letters for the noise and odour.)

There is one person who leaves butts on the ground. (They smoke an off brand, "Mild Seven.") This person is not actually a tenant, but (99.999% certain) the father of one of the tenants. Butts appear on the ground when he visits - and if he stays for a long visit an occasional annoyance balloons into an incredible nuisance. I can go weeks without seeing more than one but on the ground outside, but this past long week-end I guess he stayed over for some family time. At the end of a 48hr period, I swept up 20 butts (and the foil liners from a new pack) from a single spot in the underground parking, and ten more (plus an empty package) from beside the side door.

Just one prick, and as much mess in a couple days I might expect to accumulate if it were left for more than a year.

Last edited by Larry Mudd; 08-25-2011 at 10:59 AM..
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  #16  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:03 AM
MeanOldLady MeanOldLady is offline
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Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
What the hell?! I'm going to strangle someone.
Strangle everyone. My assumption used to be litterbugs litter out of laziness, but I've seen enough trash right by trash receptacles to conclude that some people are just douchey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
Based on the large number of butts, I'm guessing some passive-aggressive smoker assumed it was an anti-smoking Nazi that put up the sign and thought they were making some sort of weird point.
Passive-aggressive anti-smoking nazis don't clean up. They'd just put up an annoying sign that said something like "Please clean up your mess. You do not have 'maids' here." And yes, they would put quotes around "maids" because people who write BS notes like that always use at least one set of superfluous quotation marks.
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  #17  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:12 AM
Ogre Ogre is offline
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OK, so I know who's doing it now, and I confronted her about it yesterday. I asked her if she could please put her butts in the trash. She looked contrite, and confessed that she had "missed a few." She did not, however, clean them up.

Siiiiigh...so I cleaned them up. All spic and span. Tidy. Problem taken care of, right?

This morning, I go out and see at least 10 butts on the ground next to the trash can.



I'm not sure what to do at this point. I hate bullshit manufactured drama, but I fear it has already become some sort of weird passive-aggressive rebellion in her mind. Do I go confront her again?
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:14 AM
DianaG DianaG is offline
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Originally Posted by moejoe View Post
Fill the can with sand so it's an ashtray instead of a trash can. If they have to stomp them out on the ground before tossing them in the can they're only going to do the first part.
I was going to suggest this, or even better, an ashtray AND a trash can to empty it into. There's actually a pretty good reason that smokers don't generally throw their butts into trash cans. Littering is bad, but starting fires is worse.
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:16 AM
MeanOldLady MeanOldLady is offline
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Littering is bad, but starting fires is worse.
I dunno. Burning your workplace down is pretty badass. I've fantasized about doing it a few times.
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  #20  
Old 08-25-2011, 12:00 PM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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Next time you see her, don't mention her filthy habits directly. Tell her you've been hearing that management is getting tired of their property looking like a garbage pit and they're thinking of banning smoking on the premises entirely. The more vague you can be about this, the better. Don't bring up her behavior. If she brings it up, don't reply to it, just say vaguely that everyone is on their toes about this. Then finish up and leave quickly before she has a chance to grill you.
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  #21  
Old 08-25-2011, 12:18 PM
Cat Whisperer Cat Whisperer is offline
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That's better than what I had in mind, Merneith - I was just going to suggest picking up all the butts and dumping them on her desk.
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  #22  
Old 08-25-2011, 12:19 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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Gather her butts up. Then start randoming spreading them around various crime scenes....
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  #23  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:17 PM
Lynn Bodoni Lynn Bodoni is offline
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Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
At work, I've been trying for years to get one of my employees to stop flicking her butts all over the place. I finally had it under control and then she dumped her ashtray in the parking lot, followed by an "it wasn't me" to which I replied "So someone else dumped 30 Newport butts right next to your driver side car door in the last 5 minutes?"

Anyways, in winter her excuse was always "I flicked them in the snowbank, it's not like anyone can see them."

I'm constantly hearing her say "Well, those could be from anyone" "No, they really couldn't, there's not a lot of people who smoke Newport Light 100's in this neighborhood that stand by the back door and only smoke them half way down"
For a while I started taking the butts and putting them under her windshield wipers. That sort of slowed it down.

My biggest problem was when she was going out of her way to hide the butts from me. She would, literally, go 20 feet past the back door to flick the butt behind a soda machine (where I would see it anyways), when if she would, literally, have walked 20 feet in the other direction she could have flicked in the dumpster like the rest of us.
I think that this woman just volunteered for permanent parking lot cleanup. Too bad you can't get her to do it on her own time.
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:57 PM
Shakes Shakes is offline
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Does your building not have a janitor? Sounds to me like they are not doing a very good job.
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  #25  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:29 PM
Lynn Bodoni Lynn Bodoni is offline
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Unless that janitor is checking the area every half hour, the butts are gonna accumulate.

The problem isn't janitorial. The problem is that some people are slobs, and if they are slobs who smoke, they're gonna pitch their butts without regard to any trash cans or ash trays or whatever. They need to grow up and take responsibility for cleaning up after themselves.

But they won't.
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  #26  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:32 PM
Labrador Deceiver Labrador Deceiver is offline
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Ogre, does this mean you fell off the wagon?
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  #27  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:33 PM
AncientHumanoid AncientHumanoid is offline
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I'll add a peeve of mine. Parking lot ashtray dumpers. Gross, man.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:36 PM
Ogre Ogre is offline
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Ogre, does this mean you fell off the wagon?
Tumbled off right onto my butt, so to speak.
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  #29  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:41 PM
Starving Artist Starving Artist is online now
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Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
I put up a politely-worded sign on the brick wall - "Please help keep this area clean. Throw your butts away below. Thank you!"
You might try a sign like the one in the warehouse where I worked as a teenager. There were "butt cans" nailed to the walls here and there with signs reading:

"Put your butts in the can or we'll can your butt."

Everyone pretty much put their butts in the can.
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  #30  
Old 08-25-2011, 05:45 PM
Yeticus Rex Yeticus Rex is offline
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We had pretty much the same issue as everyone else here (except when one of our bushes next to our building caught fire from a butt), except I (the employer) wasn't gonna be a Nazi about it. I bought 2 of these receptacles to be used in the front and back of our building. I had a staff meeting and told them they can continue to have their "privilege" as long as they put their butts in these receptacles. The choice was up to them whether they want to continue to have that privilege. My smoking employees actually surprised me for the most part, and disposed the butts properly and even took turns dumping out the container on Monday mornings. I didn't even have to pick a single butt up.

Last edited by Yeticus Rex; 08-25-2011 at 05:46 PM..
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  #31  
Old 08-25-2011, 05:54 PM
Joey P Joey P is online now
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Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni View Post
I think that this woman just volunteered for permanent parking lot cleanup. Too bad you can't get her to do it on her own time.
When she first started working for us she used to volunteer to clean up the parking lot, then I found out one of the reasons she was flicking butts all over the lot was so that she could smoke while she was cleaning them up.
I didn't realize she was smoking while she was doing it and quickly but a stop to it. She was 16 or 17 and looked 12, I quickly banned her from smoking anywhere where customers could see her.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:41 AM
Mama Zappa Mama Zappa is offline
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Originally Posted by rachelellogram View Post
Your business should have a policy about this. Where I work, you can only smoke on one side of the building, and pretty much everyone uses the little cigarette receptacle they provided to put them out.
Doesn't always work. I often walk past smokers standing outside the entrance to my building. They're standing directly in front of the NO SMOKING sign.

In fairness, there's a butt-receptacle right there and I've never noticed piled-up butts near it.
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:34 AM
Lynn Bodoni Lynn Bodoni is offline
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Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
When she first started working for us she used to volunteer to clean up the parking lot, then I found out one of the reasons she was flicking butts all over the lot was so that she could smoke while she was cleaning them up.
I didn't realize she was smoking while she was doing it and quickly but a stop to it. She was 16 or 17 and looked 12, I quickly banned her from smoking anywhere where customers could see her.
Why is this woman still working for you, then? I'm serious. Can't you find a better worker, one who isn't a slob, who doesn't try to get away with shit like this? If she's family, that's one thing, but if she's not...surely you get several applications every day?
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  #34  
Old 08-26-2011, 12:50 PM
kath94 kath94 is offline
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I don't have this problem at work because there is a very specific "smoking permitted in this area only" location, and special snuff-out-your-cigarette containers. I s'pose it helps that there are cameras everywhere.

This is one of my BIGGEST peeves. People who smoke & just toss their butts on the sidewalk, wherever they are. Do they not realize what a mess this is? I've embarassed my husband on more than one occasion when I point out to the perpetrator, "Excuse me, you dropped something." They act like I'M the crazy one! "Yeah, duh, it was just my cigarette butt." Oh, how I wish I could pick it up and flick it into their shopping bag or purse or car or whatever!
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  #35  
Old 08-26-2011, 01:29 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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I see folks flick butts out their vehicle windows constantly, despite spring and early summer dry conditions and fire warnings in our region.
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  #36  
Old 08-26-2011, 01:37 PM
MBScott MBScott is offline
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Stop worrying about the butts. Instead, put a fake (but realistic-looking) camera aimed at the can. Oh, hell. Put a real one.



M
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  #37  
Old 08-29-2011, 09:01 AM
Bamboo Boy Bamboo Boy is offline
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You have my complete sympathy. I'm an occasional smoker and I will NEVER understand this attitude people have that butts somehow aren't trash. The same people who would bristle at other people throwing random garbage on the street will happily flick with bravado their butts pretty much anywhere. My SO is like this and it makes me want to strangle him.

I think for a lot of guys doing the responsible thing is seen as being too 'soft'. A REAL man would throw butts where he wants and kick the ass of anyone who challenges him. I really do think there is an element of this mindset at work with the problem.
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  #38  
Old 08-29-2011, 09:39 AM
Folacin Folacin is offline
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Does your building not have a janitor? Sounds to me like they are not doing a very good job.
So, in your office people just throw paper and trash on the floor, and then the janitor comes along every so often and sweeps it up?
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  #39  
Old 08-29-2011, 09:45 AM
Freddy the Pig Freddy the Pig is offline
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Until recently I owned a townhouse, and I was appalled at the number of slobs who would toss their fucking butts all over their own and their neighbors' lawns. Yeah, that makes the place look and feel classy.
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  #40  
Old 08-29-2011, 09:57 AM
Ogre Ogre is offline
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I think I'm opting out of the passive-aggressive ash can war by taking another run at quitting. No smokes since Saturday night. Let's see if I can make this one stick.
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  #41  
Old 08-29-2011, 10:38 AM
StarvingButStrong StarvingButStrong is offline
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Good luck, Ogre!

It can be done. Mr. Strong killed a twenty year pack-a-day monkey.
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  #42  
Old 08-29-2011, 11:05 AM
Joey P Joey P is online now
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Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni View Post
Why is this woman still working for you, then? I'm serious. Can't you find a better worker, one who isn't a slob, who doesn't try to get away with shit like this? If she's family, that's one thing, but if she's not...surely you get several applications every day?
Other then that fact that she smokes like a chimney and flicks her butts all over the lot, she's one of our best workers and has been since she started working for us 11 years ago when she was 16. Don't get me wrong. If the cigarettes where just 'another thing' on the list of crap I had to put up with at some point she might have heard me say "If I find one more of your butts in the lot..." but it's not the case.

The only person working here that's a better employee then her is my ex-wife...awkward.
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  #43  
Old 08-29-2011, 11:14 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is online now
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Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
I see folks flick butts out their vehicle windows constantly, despite spring and early summer dry conditions and fire warnings in our region.
Well, you don't want them to get their ashtrays all dirty and nasty.

According to my unpublished research, approximately 99.99999% of the time you see a driver tapping ash off their cigarette out the car window, the butt will follow within a couple of minutes. The evidence is still unclear as to whether this type of behavior has has been stable in recent years, or deteriorating as part of a passive-aggressive response to anti-smoking regulations.
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  #44  
Old 08-29-2011, 11:33 AM
blondebear blondebear is online now
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Our apartment complex has a "no smoking in your apartment" policy that is stated anytime a prospective tenant submits an application. There's a clause in the rental agreement--I don't know the legality of it, but it hasn't been challenged as far as I know. That usually scares smokers off--I guess they don't want the hassle of having to go outside to smoke. The end result is a wonderful experience, an environment free of butts.

A smoker did move in a few months ago and it was immediately obvious...cigarette butts started showing up along the walkways and in the common areas. Complaints were made and the new tenant was asked to dispose of his litter in an appropriate container. So, what does he do? He walks out to the front of the complex and dumps his butts in the street.

Last edited by blondebear; 08-29-2011 at 11:33 AM..
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  #45  
Old 08-29-2011, 11:42 AM
Cat Whisperer Cat Whisperer is offline
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Can someone explain that to me? How can people just dump an ashtray full of butts on a street or in a parking lot? What rationale do they use?
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  #46  
Old 08-29-2011, 05:08 PM
AskNott AskNott is offline
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Ogre, I empathize with you. I fear you are running against the wind, though. For several years, I worked in a 49-acre factory as a janitor. Smokers have a firm habit of flicking the butts far enough from them so they can't smell the smoldering. One year, the company bought a lot of red striped 3-gallon steel cans with wire grids on top. The first batch was labeled Cigarette Butts. Somebody must have objected, so the rest said Cigarette Ends.

Despite the big labels, people threw regular trash in the cans. Smoldering cigs set fire to the trash, and the aroma of burning cigarette butts is dramatic. Soon, the cans disappeared. Tossed butts were troublesome, too. I had several brooms and dust mops catch fire.
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  #47  
Old 08-30-2011, 01:49 AM
Lynn Bodoni Lynn Bodoni is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer View Post
Can someone explain that to me? How can people just dump an ashtray full of butts on a street or in a parking lot? What rationale do they use?
The smoker's ashtray is full, and s/he can't use it properly. Here is a nice area on a large street or parking lot, and if the smoker dumps the ashtray there, then s/he doesn't have to bother finding an appropriate, safe place to dispose of the ashes and butts. Because Og forbid that the smoker has to spend a few minutes and a little effort to find a place that's appropriate to dump that ashtray. It needs to be dumped RIGHT NOW, during that red light.
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  #48  
Old 08-30-2011, 01:21 PM
Yeticus Rex Yeticus Rex is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Himalayas & California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer View Post
Can someone explain that to me? How can people just dump an ashtray full of butts on a street or in a parking lot? What rationale do they use?
If they don't care which way the smoke blows, do you think they care which way the butts blow?
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  #49  
Old 08-30-2011, 01:35 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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Originally Posted by AskNott View Post
. One year, the company bought a lot of red striped 3-gallon steel cans with wire grids on top. The first batch was labeled Cigarette Butts. Somebody must have objected, so the rest said Cigarette Ends.
.
Too bad management couldnt come up with some creative acronyms. I'd love to see Cigarrette D.I.C.K.S. and Cigarrette C.U.N.T.S. lableled cans. That teach people to bitch about "butts".

Last edited by billfish678; 08-30-2011 at 01:36 PM..
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  #50  
Old 08-30-2011, 03:29 PM
Cat Whisperer Cat Whisperer is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lethbridge, AB.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni View Post
The smoker's ashtray is full, and s/he can't use it properly. Here is a nice area on a large street or parking lot, and if the smoker dumps the ashtray there, then s/he doesn't have to bother finding an appropriate, safe place to dispose of the ashes and butts. Because Og forbid that the smoker has to spend a few minutes and a little effort to find a place that's appropriate to dump that ashtray. It needs to be dumped RIGHT NOW, during that red light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex View Post
If they don't care which way the smoke blows, do you think they care which way the butts blow?
Still not getting it, but I think that's me, not your explanations. I blame my parents for raising me to care about how my actions affect other people.
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