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  #1  
Old 11-06-2011, 01:10 AM
Win Place Show Win Place Show is offline
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Is there a law against the 7-11 clerk selling you beer if you are obviously drunk?

I believe there's a (pretty universal?) law against a bartender serving you a drink if you are obviously intoxicated (though in my neck of the woods, this 'law' is seen as a gray-area - at least at the places I've hung out in).

Just wondering if there's the same sort of standards (at least where you live) for the clerk at 7-11 being able to "refuse you service" if you stumble up to the counter with your 6-pack, while fumbling a bunch of quarters, dimes, and dollar-bills out of your pocket?
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2011, 01:21 AM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is offline
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Well, in a bar there's a valid assumption the drink will be consumed within a short time. A drunk person will get drunker.

A retail store could assume beer purchases are for consumption on another day. A customer that's been drinking may be buying his next mornings hair of the dog that bit him.
That may be enough to get around laws that prohibit serving drinks to someone that is intoxicated.

Last edited by aceplace57; 11-06-2011 at 01:25 AM..
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  #3  
Old 11-06-2011, 02:31 AM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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In WA, at least, a store clerk is not supposed to sell to someone who is intoxicated.
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  #4  
Old 11-06-2011, 02:32 AM
Senegoid Senegoid is offline
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In CA, stores have signs posted that they will not sell alcoholic beverages to anyone who appears to be intoxicated. I'm pretty sure this is part of the law, and not just various stores' private policies.
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2011, 02:37 AM
Martini Enfield Martini Enfield is offline
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The law in Queensland (Australia) is that it's illegal to sell alcohol to people who are drunk, disorderly, or under 18.

It's also against the law for 7-11s and supermarkets to sell alcohol here, FWIW.
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2011, 05:16 AM
cochrane cochrane is offline
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I used to be a sales clerk here in Arizona and sold alcoholic beverages as part of my job, including at Circle K. It is against state law to sell alcohol to anyone who appears to be under the influence. Penalties include a fine for the sales clerk and possible suspension of the establishment's license.
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:01 AM
BigT BigT is online now
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How drunk is considered drunk? I mean, how inebriated do you have to be? What's the actual text of the law?
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:05 AM
Filbert Filbert is offline
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In the UK, it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone under 18, anyone you believe to be buying for anyone under 18, anyone intoxicated, or (and I found this one bizarre) a policeman in uniform.
Surely it should be the responsibility of a policeman not to attempt to buy alcohol, rather than of some poor checkout person to stop them?

There was no good definition of 'intoxicated' though, it's very much a value judgement.
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  #9  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:29 AM
nikonikosuru nikonikosuru is offline
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IANA 7-11 clerk, but I was a cashier in a store that sold alcohol. From what I was told it doesn't matter if the drunk person is buying it for now or later, you must refuse to sell it to them. If they were to do anything stupid or get hurt while intoxicated, the store would be held liable even if they were not on our property. We also had the right to refuse the sale to anyone we suspected was intoxicated.
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  #10  
Old 11-06-2011, 10:05 AM
BrotherCadfael BrotherCadfael is offline
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My daughter once worked in a grocery store in VT, and recalls selling beer to a guy who appeared sober, but who stumbled on his way out of the store. She had to contact the manager, and they had to go through a huge rigamarole to document the entire transaction. So, yes, either through law or corporate policy, they are not allowed to sell to visibly intoxicated customers.
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  #11  
Old 11-06-2011, 11:13 AM
installLSC installLSC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini Enfield View Post
The law in Queensland (Australia) is that it's illegal to sell alcohol to people who are drunk, disorderly, or under 18.

It's also against the law for 7-11s and supermarkets to sell alcohol here, FWIW.
What type of stores can sell alcohol? In the U.S., most states allow any retail establishment willing to purchase an alcohol license to sell beer and wine. Their policy on hard liquor varies: some treat it like beer/wine, some will only sell it in state-owned liquor stores.
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  #12  
Old 11-06-2011, 12:12 PM
Reebevoli Reebevoli is offline
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Originally Posted by Filbert View Post
In the UK, it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone under 18, anyone you believe to be buying for anyone under 18, anyone intoxicated, or (and I found this one bizarre) a policeman in uniform. Surely it should be the responsibility of a policeman not to attempt to buy alcohol, rather than of some poor checkout person to stop them?

There was no good definition of 'intoxicated' though, it's very much a value judgement.
I was once refused the purchase of alcohol whilst in military uniform. The manager in question assumed the rule about coppers also meant soldiers, glad to say I got my beer....eventually.

ETA: After a year of reading and not posting.......cherry busted

Last edited by Reebevoli; 11-06-2011 at 12:14 PM..
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  #13  
Old 11-06-2011, 12:58 PM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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Our local 7-eleven does not sell beer to obviously drunk people. But they will sell you bongs and rolling papers, and throw in free matches. You have to supply your own weed.
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  #14  
Old 11-06-2011, 01:01 PM
hajario hajario is online now
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Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas View Post
Our local 7-eleven does not sell beer to obviously drunk people. But they will sell you bongs and rolling papers, and throw in free matches. You have to supply your own weed.
What does one have to do with the other? I assume that they'd sell an empty mug to a drunk person.
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  #15  
Old 11-06-2011, 01:20 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is offline
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Interesting. I guess my dodge about buying beer for the next day doesn't work.

Thankfully I've never tried buying alcohol under the OP's hypothetical situation.

I did get rejected once at a grocery because the clock struck Midnight. I was in line at 11:40pm at a big grocery store. Only one lane open and two people with carts full of grocery's. It was a couple minutes after midnight by the time I got to the cashier. Around here no liquor can be sold on Sunday. Sunday starts at midnight Sat. I bought the other grocery's I had and left without my beer.

Last edited by aceplace57; 11-06-2011 at 01:21 PM..
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  #16  
Old 11-06-2011, 05:24 PM
cochrane cochrane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
How drunk is considered drunk? I mean, how inebriated do you have to be? What's the actual text of the law?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filbert View Post

There was no good definition of 'intoxicated' though, it's very much a value judgement.
Exactly this.

Here's the relevant section of the law in my state (Arizona).

"A licensee is liable for property damage and personal injuries or is liable to a person who may bring an action for wrongful death pursuant to section 12-612, or both, if a court or jury finds all of the following:

The licensee sold spirituous liquor either to a purchaser who was obviously intoxicated, or to a purchaser under the legal drinking age without requesting identification containing proof of age or with knowledge that the person was under the legal drinking age.

...

For the purposes of this section, "obviously intoxicated" means inebriated to such an extent that a person's physical faculties are substantially impaired and the impairment is shown by significantly uncoordinated physical action or significant physical dysfunction that would have been obvious to a reasonable person."

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....=4&DocType=ARS

In other words, if a customer has slurred speech, bloodshot eyes, smells of alcohol, appears uncoordinated, or displays any of the other "classic" signs of drunkenness,the clerk may use his layman's judgment to assume that person is indeed under the influence.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2011, 05:31 PM
Skara_Brae Skara_Brae is online now
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I used to be a member of a wine club, and would receive monthly shipments of wine. On the box they wine was delivered in was the warning, "Do not deliver to anyone obviously intoxicated." So apparently UPS cannot do this either.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2011, 12:48 AM
JBDivmstr JBDivmstr is offline
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Originally Posted by installLSC View Post
What type of stores can sell alcohol? In the U.S., most states allow any retail establishment willing to purchase an alcohol license to sell beer and wine. Their policy on hard liquor varies: some treat it like beer/wine, some will only sell it in state-owned liquor stores.
In Texas, it can be quite confusing. I was born and raised here and I'm still not sure of how many different variations there are. There are 'dry' counties, in which alcohol in any form is not permitted to be sold 'county wide'. Some counties allow alcohol sales to be controlled by the individual towns and cities. And there are even cities where alcohol sales are prohibited in specific neighborhoods.

In Houston, in a small area known as the Heights, the sale of beer and wine is prohibited in 'corner stores' and grocery stores (also, there are no liquor stores), yet the same neighborhood has 'full' bars (where beer, wine and hard liquor can be sold) and 'ice houses' (aka 'beer joints', where beer, wine and 'set ups' only are sold, meaning you can bring in your own hard liquor and they sell a 'set up' of ice, cups and mixer. ie:coke, sprite, o.j. etc.).
To top that off, there are no distinct divisions (ie: marked borders or limits) indicating where it is.
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Last edited by JBDivmstr; 11-07-2011 at 12:50 AM.. Reason: context
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2011, 02:09 AM
brainfizz brainfizz is offline
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In the UK it's actually illegal to be drunk in public, and there's a slightly more serious offence of being drunk in a pub. A pub landlord could lose his licence by selling alcohol to anyone that appeared drunk.
As far as what constitutes being drunk, the courts in the UK have long accepted that police officers are experts on drunkeness. They usually define being drunk as not being ill or injured and having most of the following symptoms:
Eyes glazed
Speech slurred
Unsteady on feet
Wetting themselves
Vomiting

Now you have to be pretty well gone for the last two, but it doesn't take a lot of drink to get the first 3.

Also, the law about not selling alcohol to police in uniform is from a long time ago when Peel's police used to know the exact closing times of all of the local drinking establishments and hang about the back doors as they closed, where the landlords would hand bottles of beer to them - kind of a protection racket. This is where the old folk song, "If you want to know the time, ask a policeman" came from.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2011, 09:45 AM
Clothahump Clothahump is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Place Show View Post
Just wondering if there's the same sort of standards (at least where you live) for the clerk at 7-11 being able to "refuse you service" if you stumble up to the counter with your 6-pack, while fumbling a bunch of quarters, dimes, and dollar-bills out of your pocket?
Back in the dim, dark days of my youth, I was a night manager for 7-Eleven when I lived in Austin. We had standing orders to not sell booze to drunks. The Alcoholic Beverage Commission loved to nail folks for doing that; the store's booze license would be suspended and the clerk got a hefty fine.

Of course, drunks would turn belligerent when we refused to sell to them. That was always fun.
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  #21  
Old 11-07-2011, 10:12 AM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is offline
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Do not sell beer to this guy.
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2011, 10:31 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is online now
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Originally Posted by installLSC View Post
What type of stores can sell alcohol? In the U.S., most states allow any retail establishment willing to purchase an alcohol license to sell beer and wine. Their policy on hard liquor varies: some treat it like beer/wine, some will only sell it in state-owned liquor stores.
Most, but not all. Here in Pennsylvania only the government is allowed to sell hard liquor or wine* (something our governor want's to change). You can buy beer from a distributer by the case or keg, or by the 6-pack from a bar or restaurant as an off-sale (in which case you can't buy more than 2 at a time, but are more than welcome step outside then come back in to buy more). Recently some supermarkets have gotten their cafes licenced as restaurants so you can buy beer there (& they're also required by law to let you drink it on-site. Back to the OP we have the same restrictions on making off-sales to the intoxicated and every place has signs warning customers that "VIPs" (Visually Intoxicated Persons) will be denied service.

*In-state wineries can sell their products direct to consumers onsite, and can operate a limited number of "satellite shops" selling only their own products. Same deal with hard cider. Nobody can have alcohol shipped to their home.
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:27 AM
Martini Enfield Martini Enfield is offline
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Originally Posted by installLSC View Post
What type of stores can sell alcohol? In the U.S., most states allow any retail establishment willing to purchase an alcohol license to sell beer and wine. Their policy on hard liquor varies: some treat it like beer/wine, some will only sell it in state-owned liquor stores.
It's been a while since I worked in the liquor industry, but IIRC it's basically pubs/hotels/nightclubs/RSLs/Sports Clubs etc, bottle shops/liquor merchants (using the liquor licence of a hotel they're at least nominally affiliated with), wineries/distilleries/brewers, and restaurants/cafes with a liquor licence. There's probably a few others I've forgotten, but the edited highlights are Convenience Stores, Petrol Stations, and Supermarkets are absolutely not allowed to sell alcohol in Queensland. No distinction is made between wine, beer, and spirits IIRC- it's all alcohol.

There's also what's called a "BYO" (Bring Your Own), permit whereby the premises aren't licenced to serve alcohol, but patrons are allowed to bring their own (purchased elsewhere, and traditionally only wine) and the establishment charges a "Corkage" fee and provides wine glasses. These are issued at the discretion of the local city/shire council and are fairly straightforward- you'll often find smaller restaurants with a BYO licence.

Each state's liquor laws are slightly different in minor respects- in NSW, for example, some supermarkets have a bottleshop in them so you can effectively buy alcohol from the supermarket, but it's not allowed in QLD- but generally the rules appear to be the same everywhere for the most part.

It was certainly interesting when I was in Malaysia and Indonesia (both Muslim countries) where I could buy beer from 7-11s, convenience stores, supermarkets, and petrol stations at all hours of the day and night without any issues at all- just help yourself from the fridge and pay the nice person at the counter- but here, if I want a six-pack I have to go to the bottle shop or liquor store and they all generally close by 9pm.

On the other hand, having seen how Queenslanders drink, I can sort of understand why you can't get alcohol from the supermarket here.
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  #24  
Old 11-10-2011, 07:00 AM
BunnyTVS BunnyTVS is offline
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Originally Posted by Filbert View Post
In the UK, it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone under 18, anyone you believe to be buying for anyone under 18, anyone intoxicated, or (and I found this one bizarre) a policeman in uniform.
Surely it should be the responsibility of a policeman not to attempt to buy alcohol, rather than of some poor checkout person to stop them?

There was no good definition of 'intoxicated' though, it's very much a value judgement.
The police in uniform law has been scrapped. There are two other restricted categories IIRC.

1: Known alcoholics
2: Suspected prostitutes
3: Hi Opal
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