It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Originally Posted by Kolga

Oh, must I? Because I think I would find more benefit from slamming my head repeatedly on my desk until blood starts leaking out of my ears.

Really!

SA: I'll say it as simple as possible:

ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS PICK UP THE PHONE, CALL THE POLICE, AND, IF THAT WAS TOO MUCH, WASH HIS HANDS OF THE GUY TO MAKE SURE HE NEVER STEPPED FOOT ON THE PSU CAMPUS AGAIN. ALERT OTHERS THAT THIS GUY SHOULDN'T BE HAVING CONTACT WITH CHILDREN.

That didn't happen. Repeat, that didn't happen. It was quite simple. Therefore, he is an enabler.

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by R. P. McMurphy

Really!

SA: I'll say it as simple as possible:

ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS PICK UP THE PHONE, CALL THE POLICE, AND, IF THAT WAS TOO MUCH, WASH HIS HANDS OF THE GUY TO MAKE SURE HE NEVER STEPPED FOOT ON THE PSU CAMPUS AGAIN. ALERT OTHERS THAT THIS GUY SHOULDN'T BE HAVING CONTACT WITH CHILDREN.

That didn't happen. Repeat, that didn't happen. It was quite simple. Therefore, he is an enabler.

Honestly, I don't agree with this. He would not have been right IMO to summarily fire Sandusky over unsubstantiated allegations, and to spread the word somehow that the guy was a pedophile. And he did not have the resources or training to investigate it.

But I agree with the first part. He should have called the cops after his own bosses failed to. That's what people who actually deserve their sterling reputations do.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

Honestly, I don't agree with this. He would not have been right IMO to summarily fire Sandusky over unsubstantiated allegations, and to spread the word somehow that the guy was a pedophile. And he did not have the resources or training to investigate it.

But I agree with the first part. He should have called the cops after his own bosses failed to. That's what people who actually deserve their sterling reputations do.

The point being, that after the length of time and the multiple allegations, he didn't need to do the investigations but knowing that this guy was in constant contact with young boys some flags should have been raised. Not out of legal obligation but out of moral obligation. Joe didn't need to do anything other that make sure the proper authorities were investigating the matter and to minimize the possible harm to other children. He didn't do that. That is what is unforgivable.

Apparently, Joe Pa is the most powerful entity on the PSU campus. Yet, it is reported that Sandusky has been there as lately as a week ago. At least, at minimum least, why wasn't this guy banned from ever stepping foot on PSU soil years ago?

[Boyo Jim]

Unless I missed something, we don't know that Paterno was aware of any of the other allegations.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

Unless I missed something, we don't know that Paterno was aware of any of the other allegations.

You don't know much about coaching do you? A good/great coach (which Paterno is) not only knows his own players inside and out but he knows the opposing players. He knows where they came from, how they were recruited, what all-star teams they played on, their strengths and weaknesses and a lot more. I did some coaching and what amazed me was how the really good coaches, that were a cut above, knew so much about opposing players. My experience was at a highly competitive level but still below the college and pro level. I can only imagine what it gets like at those levels.

Yet, you want us to believe that a great coach who knows so much about everyone in the game,including the referees and the score keepers, doesn't know jack-shit about his assistant coaches. It's just not plausible.

[Boyo Jim]

Is that a joke? He would somehow know that his assistant was fucking children in some other school's locker room? He would have know that his assistant was blowing kids because the janitors saw him and never told anyone? Honestly, you think the guy would just have confessed to him because they were so intimate? Or what?

Paterno deserves al the flak he's getting based on what we DO actually know about what he knew and what he did and failed to do. And he will deserve worse if it comes out that he knew even more. But unless you can point to some evidence that he knew, it's just bullshit.

Did I miss even a hint from any of these sources we've been discussing that Paterno knew about anything other than the incident McCready saw?

[Mr. Moto]

Don't know about Paterno, but according to the indictment when the 2002 incident was reported Shultz remembered a campus police report from 1998.

Of course nobody got a copy of that report to do anything about Sandusky then or subsequently.

[Martin Hyde]

Originally Posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut

While Sandusky is obviously a sick, sick individual, the fact that he allowed himself to get caught and appears to have been blatant in so many ways suggests that he may have wanted to get caught. Perhaps a tiny sliver of morality deep down in his subconscious was screaming out: Please stop me!

If only one of these other dipshits actually did something after finding out, some of these kids could have been saved.

The only explanation I can come up with is that when covering up wrongdoings becomes institutionalized, it just becomes SOP no matter how horrible someone's actions are. Maybe OSU covering up student athletes selling jerseys is not all that unrelated to PSU covering up child rape, as far apart as they may appear to be for those of us on the outside. I can't help but compare this to the Catholic Church's long time cover-up of priests abusing thousands of kids.

I don't really think so. That's a common meme, that stupid serial offenders "want to get caught." Some people think that BTK "wanted to get caught" and that is why, after decades of inactivity he sent a letter taunting police (on a disk that contained information that lead police right to him.)

What was actually the case is BTK was an egotistical narcissist, and that's part of his psyche that was involved in making him the serial killer that he was (although there's obviously more to it than that.) BTK did not think he could get caught, and he sent the disk in because of his narcissism/ego. I'd argue a serial child rapist like Sandusky, who had shown serial disregard to the rights and feelings of others for most of his adult life (most likely) probably was an extreme narcissist and felt that he was invincible, he probably got off more than normal by doing these things in semi-public places and he felt so untouchable he never thought this would come out.

[Martin Hyde]

Originally Posted by Starving Artist

It's my understanding that Paterno did report it to the people who are actually equipped to investigate and evaluate such claims. What I'm attempting to explain is why Paterno didn't instantly jump up and go storming off to make a citizen's arrest of Sandusky and perhaps shoot him on the spot, which is what some of this thread's posters seem to feel he should have done, and that the fact he didn't makes him just as bad as Sandusky.

Seriously, reason has left the building in this thread. If it somehow makes you people feel all warm and fuzzy inside to throw Joe Paterno, Penn State and everyone associated with it under the bus, even after years of support, and consider them as evil as Sandusky himself - which some of you have claimed - then knock yourselves out. But trust me, there's not a hair's breadth of difference between the way you're behaving and the way Nancy Grace does on her show, and that's not a good thing.

The people who are supposed to investigate a claim of rape are the police, not the Athletic Director of Penn State. The Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State police has explicitly stated that they should have been told, and he has said that while Paterno did what was required of him by law, there is a higher ethical obligation to report these things to the police even if you are not a mandatory reporter. I agree 100% with the Commissioner of Police.

I'll say this, I don't find it particularly clever when a literal mountain of evidence is found about a person and you find one solitary sole moaning about "nothing is proven yet!" I don't think a single person in this thread has said we shouldn't give Sandusky a trial, and a trial is where all of his constitutional protections will apply fully. So it really is not a mob or a witch hunt mentality, no one here is calling for us to break into Sandusky's house and lynch him, we're content to let his legal process work itself out. But as a casual observer it's also the case I'm not the judge hearing this case and I'm not on the jury that will try it, so it's perfectly acceptable for me and everyone else to take the evidence we have and call Sandusky scum.

Finally, I think most people agree that there is no way we can know 100% what Paterno thought or what he had been told. There is no way we can know 100% what Schultz and Curley heard or believed. However the disconnect is you think it is their role to ascertain the validity of these claims, I think that is where you will find strong disagreement. If I'm the AD or a member of the administration of PSU I will absolutely not take it upon myself to be the investigative professional in the case of an alleged act of child abuse. Whether McQueary told me it was anal rape, fondling, or something else, I don't know. All I know is factually there has been a claim of inappropriate contact and that the AD should have reported it to police. Given Paterno's importance at the university I also feel he had a responsibility to do something about this when it became obvious nothing was going to be done about it.

[BobLibDem]

I could forgive Paterno for telling the AD and then waiting a short while to see if things started happening. If a week or so goes by and there was no sign of a police investigation, then Paterno should have gone back to the AD and said "hey, dude, if you're not going to report this to the police I will". Instead, his attitude seems to be that he did the bare minimum required of him and that's as far as he was obligated to go.

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

I could forgive Paterno for telling the AD and then waiting a short while to see if things started happening. If a week or so goes by and there was no sign of a police investigation, then Paterno should have gone back to the AD and said "hey, dude, if you're not going to report this to the police I will". Instead, his attitude seems to be that he did the bare minimum required of him and that's as far as he was obligated to go.

And before the Usual Legal Eagles jump in to say "well, he's right, that's all the law required!," I'd like to repeat my statement earlier than a simple sense of humanity, of moral decency, required much, much more from Paterno than it seems he was willing to give.

Hiding behind "I did what the law required" cheapens him, especially given that reputation he worked all those years to build.

[Gyrate]

Former Penn Stater here and oh, I am sick.

Say it ain't so, Joe.

[StusBlues]

Originally Posted by DragonAsh

Looks like Paterno won't face jail time, but R.P. McMurphy has it right: His legacy will now forever be 'the guy that helped and protected a child molester for almost 10 years'. Hope he enjoyed those 409 wins, 'cause he's going to have to spend the rest of his life thinking about the dozens of kids that he allowed to be molested right under his very nose.

You realize you're talking about maybe six months, tops, after he steps down as coach. The guy is 85.

[BobLibDem]

Originally Posted by Kolga

And before the Usual Legal Eagles jump in to say "well, he's right, that's all the law required!," I'd like to repeat my statement earlier than a simple sense of humanity, of moral decency, required much, much more from Paterno than it seems he was willing to give.

Hiding behind "I did what the law required" cheapens him, especially given that reputation he worked all those years to build.

If ever there is a time to do more than the bare minimum that the law requires, it is to protect children. He knew that a 10 year old boy was raped in his locker room. How could he look himself in the mirror all of these years knowing that he didn't do all that he could to stop other children from being abused?

[ugly ripe tomato]

Color me another bummed-out Penn State ex-fan. Forget an 8-1 season and 409 wins, I'll never be able to watch another game without wondering what Joe knew and if he couldn't have done more. I don't see any way he can come out of this with his reputation intact and if he could have done more but didn't he doesn't deserve to.

There's a really great player on my alma mater's football team who was headed for PSU and I was stoked to think a kid from my high school was going to be playing for the Lions. Now I wonder if he'll even go and I wouldn't blame him.

One thing I haven't seen is how this whole mess got exposed. Did one of the victims come forward?

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

If ever there is a time to do more than the bare minimum that the law requires, it is to protect children. He knew that a 10 year old boy was raped in his locker room. How could he look himself in the mirror all of these years knowing that he didn't do all that he could to stop other children from being abused?

Again, to stave off the Usual Legal Eagles, he didn't "know" a 10-year-old boy had been raped. He'd been TOLD that a 10-year-old boy had been raped. By someone that he found credible enough to give an assistant coaching position to for the past nine years, so it's not like McQueary said "I saw this" and Joe said "I don't believe you, but I'll pass it up the line." Joe basically said "I'll pass it up the line, and oh by the way, want a job?"

After being told by someone that you find otherwise credible that a rape had been witnessed, you're morally obligated to ensure that the proper authorities (the non-campus police) conduct a proper investigation.

Nobody at Penn State looks good in this. Not McQueary, who worked for nine years with the guy who was supposed to make sure the report got investigated. Not Curley and Schultz. Not Spanier. Nobody.

[madmonk28]

As a nerd, I've never understood why football, an extra-curricular activity at an academic institution, is such a big deal. You can bet that if the administrators knew about an English prof raping kids, they would have found it in their hearts to call 911.

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

As a nerd, I've never understood why football, an extra-curricular activity at an academic institution, is such a big deal. You can bet that if the administrators knew about an English prof raping kids, they would have found it in their hearts to call 911.

English professors don't bring in multi-million dollar contracts, TV coverage, and elite athletes.

We can argue about the meaning of college sports and the negative or positive effects of the existence of the college sports machine elsewhere, but there is a financial reason why those two scenarios would receive differential treatment.

[madmonk28]

I know there is a financial incentive, it just bugs the living shit out of me that somehow college football makes people suddenly find the "grey area" in reporting child rapists.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Kolga

English professors don't bring in multi-million dollar contracts, TV coverage, and elite athletes.

We can argue about the meaning of college sports and the negative or positive effects of the existence of the college sports machine elsewhere, but there is a financial reason why those two scenarios would receive differential treatment.

Well, that just means everybody involved in this fiasco was a moral whore with a price, which just makes it that much worse.

[RTFirefly]

If Graham Spanier (the president of Penn State University) had a clue, both Paterno and McQueary would already be on administrative leave.

Speaking of Spanier, he has a webcast about college athletics:

Penn State produces Expert Opinion with Graham Spanier, a national talk show series that focuses on critical issues impacting collegiate athletics. Each one-hour episode is filmed in high definition in the Big Ten Network (BTN) studios in Chicago. Graham Spanier, President of Penn State, is the show’s moderator and each episode includes three guests who bring their expertise to the conversation.

The most recent episode was titled, "Impact of TV on College Sports." Maybe the next one can be titled, "Impact of Child Rape on the Penn State Football Program."

[Steve MB]

Originally Posted by John DiFool

In case anybody has any remaining lingering doubts that SA is just a troll pure and simple, well, there ya go.

Well, he certainly is being inconsistent with his own past statement. Obviously, the explanation for the lack of outcry is that the boy's parents, being proper folk who always wore suits and ties when riding airplanes and what not, taught him manners such as the use of an indoor voice at all times while indoors.

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

I know there is a financial incentive, it just bugs the living shit out of me that somehow college football makes people suddenly find the "grey area" in reporting child rapists.

Originally Posted by billfish678

Well, that just means everybody involved in this fiasco was a moral whore with a price, which just makes it that much worse.

I am in 100% agreement with both of you. The machine of college football required, in this case, at least four high-level administrators to turn a blind eye to reports of child rape.

[Mr. Moto]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

As a nerd, I've never understood why football, an extra-curricular activity at an academic institution, is such a big deal. You can bet that if the administrators knew about an English prof raping kids, they would have found it in their hearts to call 911.

Frankly, universities don't handle run of the mill sexual assault accusations very well. So I won't take your bet.

[Steve MB]

Originally Posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut

While Sandusky is obviously a sick, sick individual, the fact that he allowed himself to get caught and appears to have been blatant in so many ways suggests that he may have wanted to get caught.

Or that he (correctly) believed that the people in a position to do something about his behavior were too chickenshit to do so.

[Steve MB]

Originally Posted by Starving Artist

What would you have him do

Tell his superiors, "You call the police, or I will", and then do the latter when the former failed to occur. Duh.

[StusBlues]

Originally Posted by Kolga

English professors don't bring in multi-million dollar contracts, TV coverage, and elite athletes.

We can argue about the meaning of college sports and the negative or positive effects of the existence of the college sports machine elsewhere, but there is a financial reason why those two scenarios would receive differential treatment.

Even more reason to report it, really. If an English professor gets convicted of child molestation, that's pretty much the end of the story. He's a pariah to everyone he knows, and the department moves on. When a nationally-known defensive coordinator gets busted for having sex with a prepubescent boy in the locker room, that could be the end of the program. Who the hell is ever going to send their kid to Penn State to play football after this? If they'd called the cops immediately and shipped this guy off to hell, people would have been inclined to say "bad deal, but at least they took care of it." Now, Penn State may be looking at going the SMU route in the foreseeable future. This is orders of magnitude worse than Ohio State or Miami football or UNLV basketball. There may be no NCAA sanctions, but they're going to get killed in the court of public opinion.

Being a lifelong Nebraska boy, I never thought I'd say that I felt honestly sorry for Penn State fans. I'm saying that now. Sorry, Jacknifed Juggernaut. This cannot be easy.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moto

Frankly, universities don't handle run of the mill sexual assault accusations very well. So I won't take your bet.

This whole thing may be the one point we actually agree on. Universities (including Penn State) don't handle sexual assault/rape accusations (especially on-campus incidents) well at all. This kind of thing is why I tend to call Campus Security the place where crimes embarrassing to the admin go to die.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by StusBlues

Being a lifelong Nebraska boy, I never thought I'd say that I felt honestly sorry for Penn State fans. I'm saying that now. Sorry, Jacknifed Juggernaut. This cannot be easy.

I've been pissing off several of my Facebook friends (people who I would NEVER expect to excuse this kind of thing) because I'm not "waiting for all the facts to come in". All the facts ARE in, as far as Paterno's knowledge goes...the indictment has McQueary's testimony. The eyewitness contradicts what the secondhand reporters (Paterno, Curley, etc) have testified to. But any acknowledgement of that, to certain Penn State fans, is just hearsay and couldn't possibly have happened in any way that JoePa has any culpability. I'm fairly certain that I'm likely to get unfriended by several people over it.

[BobLibDem]

As a lifelong Big Ten fan, I remember being pleased when PSU joined the conference. Now, it might be time to show PSU the door.

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by StusBlues

Being a lifelong Nebraska boy

Speaking of schools with sexual assault issues...

But Penn State was supposed to be clean, dammit! Between this and whoring themselves out on the hydrofracking issue, PSU has not been endearing itself to me as of late.

[StusBlues]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

Speaking of schools with sexual assault issues...

Not sure I'm following you. Are you referring to the mid-1990s crap with Christian Peter and Lawrence Phillips? Or am I spacing something more recent?

[Barkis is Willin']

I've always thought Paterno was an asshole, but I never would have guessed he'd let something like this continue on his watch. To say he didn't know the details is horseshit. As many others have said, Paterno is Penn State. That someone came to him with serious allegations and he didn't bother to dig for details before taking it to the AD is too absurd to believe.

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

As a lifelong Big Ten fan, I remember being pleased when PSU joined the conference. Now, it might be time to show PSU the door.

Or, to borrow a thought from John Kincaid, at least kick them out of the Leaders division because they are clearly devoid of any kind of leadership.

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by StusBlues

Not sure I'm following you. Are you referring to the mid-1990s crap with Christian Peter and Lawrence Phillips? Or am I spacing something more recent?

The mid-90s crap, which is when I was living in Lincoln. I'm just ribbing you.

[StusBlues]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

The mid-90s crap, which is when I was living in Lincoln. I'm just ribbing you.

Well that was plenty bad, and I know you're just needling me, but most of that crap happened in bars and what not, and was perpetrated by college students. It doesn't compare to a coach in his mid-50s sodomizing a boy in the Penn State locker room. This is so far beyond anything I can imagine (outside the RCC scandals) that I don't even know how to react. Tom Corbett (or the regents, or whoever) may have to use the nuclear option here and gut substantial swaths of the PSU administration, especially if it becomes apparent that Spanier knew. (I'm not arguing that this is going to happen, but I would not be surprised.)

ETA: Spanier was Chancellor at Nebraska in their dirtiest period as well. Funny that.

[Huerta88]

Originally Posted by Martin Hyde

I don't think a single person in this thread has said we shouldn't give Sandusky a trial, and a trial is where all of his constitutional protections will apply fully.

Well, I might have when I called for his "summary execution." But seriously -- he totally did that shit. There are times when lynch law is not the worst thing in the world.

Okay, okay, fine, crucify me, and I was just kidding (sort of). What I'm going to say for real is no more Christian, or particularly ethical. But . . . am I the only one who thinks that a Rommel endgame is the least-worst outcome here? Not that this guy has half the honor Rommel did, but . . . .

[Duke]

Now the Penn State administration, in its ongoing efforts to be completely open about what's going on, canceled JoePa's weekly press conference, allegedly without his knowledge. According to Sports Illustrated it was Spanier's personal decision. Whether this was "this is our best way to keep embarrassing questions from being asked" or "we can't stop our 84-year-old coach from being a loose cannon about everything" remains to be seen.

[Jackknifed Juggernaut]

Originally Posted by StusBlues

....Sorry, Jacknifed Juggernaut. This cannot be easy.

It's not, but it certainly puts football into perspective.

Obviously, the young boys who were harmed deserve the lion's share of our sympathy.

But I also feel bad for all the great players that came out of the program, who may have even proclaimed that they'd step in front of a bus for Paterno, have Nittany Lion tattoos on their chests and arms, who are so proud to have played for PSU. I feel terrible for the current players as well as the other student athletes. The PSU women's volleyball team is a perennial national championship contender. Good luck getting the best recruits to go there in the future.

How about all the students and graduates of Penn State that now have to cringe every time they're asked about their alma mater?

On Sunday night, November 20th, the New York Giants will play the Philadelphia Eagles in the NBC night game. Kareem McKenzie is the starting right tackle for the Giants. If you follow the NFL, you know that at the beginning of each NBC game, the starters for both teams are introduced via a short video in which they state the college that they attended. I wonder if McKenzie will say "Penn State", or resort to stating his high school instead.

[Wilson]

Maybe I'm going overboard here, but I'm now starting to wonder - does Saturday's football game get cancelled / postponed? Penn State seems such a mess right now, I can almost imagine it happening.

[villa]

Why is there talk that Paterno shoud resign? PSU should fire him, make it public, and dependent on the outcome of any investigation use any morals clause in the contract to avoid him getting another penny and hopefully go after him for past earnings.

The absolute best case scenario for him, even assuming he knew nothing, is that he ran a program where a man felt safe he could anally rape a child with impunity.

And I wonder if SA would be so quick to defend Joe had he been a campaigner for Obama not the Bushes?

[kevja]

Originally Posted by Wilson

Maybe I'm going overboard here, but I'm now starting to wonder - does Saturday's football game get cancelled / postponed? Penn State seems such a mess right now, I can almost imagine it happening.

I think they play the game and by the end of the week Joe Paterno will retire or say he will step aside for the rest of the season.

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by Wilson

Maybe I'm going overboard here, but I'm now starting to wonder - does Saturday's football game get cancelled / postponed? Penn State seems such a mess right now, I can almost imagine it happening.

I suppose they could forfeit, but I expect the 'show must go on' attitude will prevail. Even if the Penn State administration finally clues up and puts Paterno on administrative leave, I expect the players will still take the field, and they'd probably temporarily promote the offensive or defensive coordinator to act as head coach.

[Huerta88]

N.Y. Times is reporting that JP's exit is inevitable and currently under negotiation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...t.html?_r=1&hp

[madmonk28]

If I see a child being raped, I am calling 911 right then. If you tell me that you saw a child being raped, I am calling 911 right then. Another reaction is bullshit.

[Crotalus]

I think that the game will be played, but that Paterno will not be there. I think he will resign or be fired before Saturday.

[ladyfoxfyre]

I'm still confused by the fact that Schultz and Curley have both been indicted for what they knew and didn't report to police, which was reported to them by Paterno, but somehow we "still don't know if Paterno actually knew anything or not". Doesn't the fact that the AD and VP are being indicted based on knowledge they were provided by Paterno pretty much eliminate the argument that Paterno didn't know anything?

[BobLibDem]

His retirement/firing is apparently imminent.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by villa

Why is there talk that Paterno shoud resign? PSU should fire him, make it public, and dependent on the outcome of any investigation use any morals clause in the contract to avoid him getting another penny and hopefully go after him for past earnings.

The prevailing wisdom in and around Penn State is that the president (Spanier) has wanted him to retire for over a decade now, but JoePa refuses. Spanier and JoePa have been butting heads ever since Spanier got there, mainly because Spanier thinks he should be numero uno on campus but everyone listens to JoePa instead of him. JoePa, from what I understand, just thinks Spanier should mind his own business.

All this time, of course, there was nothing actually stopping Spanier from firing JoePa. It's just that, well, there was no way he could do it without looking like the bad guy. And even now he can't do that. Spanier's administration looks just as dirty as the athletics department in this scandal: it was his VP for finance, after all, who also didn't notify authorities when he allegedly heard of felony child abuse on his campus. If Spanier fires JoePa now, all that does is make JoePa look like a scapegoat for Spanier. And, to be honest, there are not a lot of people in and around Penn State who have a lot of love for Spanier in the first place. That, of course, will be the end of Spanier; though he might be hanging by a thread now, at least now he can wait for the Trustees to decide that. If he cans JoePa the Trustees will be meeting that day to fire him.

As for morals clauses, back wages, etc.: you've got to be kidding. Everyone who knows Penn State knows that JoePa has been literally writing his own contracts for at least the last two decades. He decides how long he wants to coach, then he tells the AD to write a standard contract. It's been understood even when I was a student (to 1994) that JoePa would decide when he left.

Honestly, I think the only way he will go is to resign. We all thought he was going to die still coaching the team, because he always pointed at Bear Bryant (who died a few months after he retired) as an example for his life. I still think the only two options are resign or die.

[Mr. Moto]

Originally Posted by villa

And I wonder if SA would be so quick to defend Joe had he been a campaigner for Obama not the Bushes?

Can't speak for SA, nor do I want to. I will note that I am a conservative Republican and I haven't spared Paterno much sympathy in this thread.

In the interest of full disclosure, I will note that I am a Pitt grad and a fan of their sports programs. That only goes so far, obviously. When newly appointed Pitt football coach Michael Haywood got arrested for domestic violence and lost his job, I didn't defend him at all.

[villa]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moto

Can't speak for SA, nor do I want to. I will note that I am a conservative Republican and I haven't spared Paterno much sympathy in this thread.

In the interest of full disclosure, I will note that I am a Pitt grad and a fan of their sports programs. That only goes so far, obviously. When newly appointed Pitt football coach Michael Haywood got arrested for domestic violence and lost his job, I didn't defend him at all.

It wasn't my intent to suggest conservatives as a rule would. Just that SA is so staggeringly blinkered he'd honestly believe it impossible for an older right wing man to have moral failings.