Is Venice doomed?

[Mr. Kobayashi]

I love Venice. Who doesn't? But Aqua Altae levels are rising and new controversial technologies are being thought up to stop the city sinking. But will it be enough? How long does the city have? Is it destined to sink below the murky waters of the Adriatic to become a modern day Atlantis? Or is the subsistence actually slowing and technology able to save the city?

[Philster]

I suggest you warm up with at least a good read:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/venice/

The sinking has slowed since artesian wells were banned, but it hardly eliminates the issue. Everything is 'doomed', so you want to get more specific. Earth is doomed... so no one can chime in to say that Venice is not doomed.

[Gagundathar]

OK, Philster, I agree. The entirety of the known Universe is bounded by time.
Nothing lasts forever.

But, I suppose the term 'doomed' in this context means 'Will Venice disappear into the Adriatic Sea in the next few decades or so?'
Or perhaps, 'Will the proposed technological fixes postpone the inevitable submersion of Venice?'

If Humanity lasts long enough, it is entirely possible that we could reverse the flooding and leave Venice in a stable state.

[Bear_Nenno]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kobayashi

I love Venice. Who doesn't?

Many people! It's filthy; covered in algae and dog feces the local pet owners can't be bothered to pick up. Speaking of locals, they are spiteful, rude and unappreciative of the visitors who actually sustain their existance. I can't stand Venice. No one who has ever spent any amount of time in that city actually likes it. "Huge dissapointment" is a common description.

I won't miss it.

[Askance]

Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno

Many people! It's filthy; covered in algae and dog faeces the local pet owners can't be bothered to pick up. Speaking of locals, they are spiteful, rude and unappreciative of the visitors who actually sustain their existence. I can't stand Venice. No one who has ever spent any amount of time in that city actually likes it. "Huge disappointment" is a common description.

The bolded part is factually incorrect, as I love it. I think it is the tourist city that copes with its overwhelming influx of visitors the best of anywhere.

BTW I do not recall a single deposit of dog poo in the entire time I lived there. Seagull maybe.

I won't miss it.

It, and those who love it, won't miss you even a little bit. Do allow the door to smack you on the way out.

[No Wikipedia Cites]

Originally Posted by Askance

The bolded part is factually incorrect, as I love it. I think it is the tourist city that copes with its overwhelming influx of visitors the best of anywhere.

BTW I do not recall a single deposit of dog poo in the entire time I lived there. Seagull maybe.

It, and those who love it, won't miss you even a little bit. Do allow the door to smack you on the way out.

Hahha, he is probably a native Venetian and is trying to convince you Americans to stay away . . .

[MLS]

I didn't care for it a whole lot, either. The canals are open sewers.

[Colophon]

Originally Posted by MLS

I didn't care for it a whole lot, either. The canals are open sewers.

MLS
Charter Member

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,169

The irony! It burns!

[MLS]

Because? Because NJ beaches are cleaner than California ones? NJ has been good enough for the likes of Jackie Onassis and Malcolm Forbes.

[MLS]

BTW, we drink the water that comes out of the well on our own property -- try to do that in Venice!

[gazpacho]

Originally Posted by No Wikipedia Cites

Hahha, he is probably a native Venetian and is trying to convince you Americans to stay away . . .

The native Venetians are getting fewer and fewer. The population is down by half from what it was in 1966 when there was a bad flood. It is an expensive inconvenient place to live. Most of the people that work in Venice commute in from the mainland. I love Venice and had a wonderful poop free time there. But it is a strange place that is turning into a theme park rather than a place where people live.

[Lukeinva]

Originally Posted by Colophon

MLS
Charter Member

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,169

The irony! It burns!

lol

[Bear_Nenno]

Originally Posted by Askance

The bolded part is factually incorrect, as I love it.
... in the entire time I lived there.

Well if you lived there, then it doesn't really apply to you does it?

[Bear_Nenno]

Originally Posted by Askance

It, and those who love it, won't miss you even a little bit.

Trust me, I don't need an Australian to tell me how much Italians hate my presence in their country.

[Mr. Kobayashi]

Yeah, I know in the long run we're all doomed, sun rise sun set and all the rest of it. But more specifically, I'm interested in how long the place will remain inhabitable (some house floors already being unsuitable). Decades? Centuries?

Did I hear someone doesn't appreciate magnificent architecture and culture?! Them's fightin' words!

[Bear_Nenno]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kobayashi

Did I hear someone doesn't appreciate magnificent architecture and culture?! Them's fightin' words!

No, I appreciate both. I've been to hundreds of cities in 33 different countries. Of those 33, I've lived in 6. Venice is by far the most over rated city (next to Pisa) on the planet. Even if it wasn't over rated, it would still be in the bottom 10%. Other than Naples, I can't think of a place in Europe I like less.

Didn't want to continue the hijack, I just wanted to explain that I am not simply being xenophobic or anti-Europe or something. I just don't like Venice much. And I used to live 30 mins from there.

[Anchuldigs]

My cousin hates Venice too.

But he slipped into a canal ....... in his suit.

[foolsguinea]

They should accept that they have to build up another level of buildings, hardly for the first time. Some of the architecture can be moved up a level, but trying to keep the whole present "ground level" above water is probably going to do more harm than good. It's sinking like it always has, and closing off the lagoon will be worse than losing some floors beneath the waves.

[OpalCat]

Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno

No, I appreciate both. I've been to hundreds of cities in 33 different countries. Of those 33, I've lived in 6. Venice is by far the most over rated city (next to Pisa) on the planet. Even if it wasn't over rated, it would still be in the bottom 10%. Other than Naples, I can't think of a place in Europe I like less.

Didn't want to continue the hijack, I just wanted to explain that I am not simply being xenophobic or anti-Europe or something. I just don't like Venice much. And I used to live 30 mins from there.

[hijack]Ugh! Naples was one of the grosser cities I've seen. I'm sure it has nice areas, but we sure didn't see them.[/end hijack]

[Colophon]

Originally Posted by OpalCat

[hijack]Ugh! Naples was one of the grosser cities I've seen. I'm sure it has nice areas, but we sure didn't see them.[/end hijack]

Don't worry; it doesn't.

As for Venice, the Moses barrier is due to be completed next year, although quite where the money to finish it will come from, given Italy's current finances, I don't know. That combined with building up quaysides should help matters somewhat.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno

Many people! It's filthy; covered in algae and dog feces the local pet owners can't be bothered to pick up. Speaking of locals, they are spiteful, rude and unappreciative of the visitors who actually sustain their existance. I can't stand Venice. No one who has ever spent any amount of time in that city actually likes it. "Huge dissapointment" is a common description.

I won't miss it.

Seconded in all ways. Won't miss it a bit.

[md2000]

Originally Posted by Colophon

Don't worry; it doesn't.

As for Venice, the Moses barrier is due to be completed next year, although quite where the money to finish it will come from, given Italy's current finances, I don't know. That combined with building up quaysides should help matters somewhat.

The last time I saw aqua alta starting, almost a decade ago, the water was oozing out the drains in St. Marks square too. They need more than higher quays. Oddly, the water in the square was clear, even where it was over a foot deep. The canals are also a nice bright green, from algae I assume, and although I`ve heard comments about the smell, even in 30-degree heat (85C or more) I didn`t see it. There is floating garbage in some canals, since a lot of modern gabage, like plastic bottles and foam containers, floats. The only dog I saw was standing on the front of the owner`s kayak being paddled through the backstreet canals.

They do have the problem that it is a very trendy and in-demand tourist location. As a result, rich tourists are squeezing out locals. The population is aging rapidly as younger people seek other careers on the mainland; its expensive to raise a family. Rich foreigners and Hollywood stars own the most expensive properties and often leave them empty much of the time.

The biggest problem was land subsiding due to water being pumped out of the aquifer from the mainland. Since they banned this, the sinking has pretty much stopped. Whether it will rebound if or when the aquifer fills, and how fast, is anyone`s guess. The real question is whether global warning will raise sea levels enough to flood most waterfronts around the globe.

IIRC, Venice does not even experience significant tides, being in a lagoon at the end of a very narrow sea on the not-very-tidy mediterranean. Thus, unlike many atlantic ports, you do not have that 6-foot plus difference.

The barriers, when done, are supposed to only be raised when it is extreme tides - around full an new moon in the spring and fall. The rest of the time, the lagoon ecology is supposed to work as it always has. The problem is that misguided attempts to landfill parts of the lagoon by the shore may have disrupted the natural flow which flushes the lagoon regularly. Time will tell. Nobody expects Venice to be gone in short order.