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  #1  
Old 11-09-2011, 05:53 PM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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Putting in new tile, new vanity, new toilet in a bathroom: in what order should it be done?

I have a bathroom with a linoleum floor, an older toilet, a vanity (sink+cabinet combo). Suppose I want to replace all three: the linoleum floor with a ceramic tile floor, and the toilet/vanity with a new toilet/vanity. What order should this be done in? Will the tile go under the toilet and the vanity? If the tile does not go under the toilet and the vanity, does this mean that the toilet and the vanity must be put in first?

I wanted to put in the new tile, and replace the toilet and vanity later. But if I replace the toilet and vanity later, how do I know that there won't be any gaps between the tile and the bottom of the toilet or the vanity?

Assume the vanity would look something like this.

Foremost Naples 30 in. Vanity Cabinet
(from Home Depot)
Model # NACA3021D Internet # 100508056 Store SKU # 477965 Store SO SKU # 122803

It probably won't be that one, but the vanity will look more or less like it, i.e. it will be a box resting on the floor.
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:00 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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The tile definitely goes under the toilet. It will be a real pain to cut curves in the tile to go around the bottom of the toilet. You could go either way with the vanity. Personally I would tile the floor first.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:02 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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I think that the usual way to tile the floor would be under the vanity as well as the toilet. So the old vanity and toilet have to be removed while you're installing the tile. Given that, why not replace them at the same time, instead of reinstalling the old ones and then replacing them later?
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:04 PM
jasg jasg is offline
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I would remove them all. Then put down new floor to cover the entire room, install the new toilet and the put in the vanity. I would not like to fit the tile around the toilet and vanity, far easier to put a full floor in than cut around everything.

The only possible hitch would be with the wax toilet seal since the tile will take the floor up a bit higher and perhaps too far above the flange on the drain. Check with a plumber about that.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:07 PM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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I was going to pay a guy to tile the bathroom floor. If I do all three at once, that means needing to find another guy to do the toilet and vanity, because I imagine that the tile guy wouldn't install toilets and vanities. And if I have a second guy doing the toilet and vanity, he'd have to do it right away as soon as the tile guy is done, I don't want to have the bathroom sitting there with no sink and no toilet.

ETA: That was in answer to post 2.

Last edited by Arnold Winkelried; 11-09-2011 at 06:08 PM..
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  #6  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:30 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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I'll bet that the tile guy can install the vanity and toilet, since he'll need to remove them to install the tile in the first place. Ask him if he'll do so for a few dollars more.
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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I'll ask him. But the vanities I saw at Home Depot include sinks and faucets. Does this mean that the tile guy is also a plumber ?!?

Last edited by Arnold Winkelried; 11-09-2011 at 06:33 PM..
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:57 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Winkelried View Post
I'll ask him. But the vanities I saw at Home Depot include sinks and faucets. Does this mean that the tile guy is also a plumber ?!?
If the toilet and vanity are going in the same place as the old vanity and toilet there is no real plumbing work. Just attaching hoses. If they are being moved then you need a plumber.
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2011, 07:07 PM
Sudden Kestrel Sudden Kestrel is offline
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What you need there is a handyman rather than a "tile guy," so he or she can tile the floor and install your vanity and toilet for you. You want the vanity and toilet on top of the tile since there is an optimal height for both components, and this is measured from the floor, not the subfloor. I suppose you could just have those areas tiled when you decide to have the toilet and vanity installed, but be sure you buy the tile and grout all at the same time so it all matches.
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:53 PM
bump bump is offline
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Well, you don't tile right up to your flange; usually you leave a little space for the wax ring, but still tile well under the toilet's footprint.
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  #11  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:35 PM
FluffyBob FluffyBob is online now
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I do this for a living. To do this properly you are going to be without a bathroom for a few days. There are lots of contractors that specialize in bathrooms and will do the whole thing for you, they may still bring in a tiler for the floor.

Tile requires 1 inch of floor. The tiler can either rip out the old linoleum and underlay and lay down proper tile backing, or lay tile directly over the old linoleum after some prep work if it is in suitable condition.

Baseboard will have to be pulled for the tiling and either replaced or substituted with tile base. The drywall is usually touched up where necessary and the room should be painted before the vanity and toilet go in.

Free standing all-in-one vanities from home improvement stores are fairly easy to install. Built-in cabinet vanities require a little more skill and tools to be installed properly. The plumbing for both toilet and vanity are nothing special but should still be done by someone who knows what they are doing.

I see (and rip out) a lot of poor work, so buyer beware.
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2011, 02:37 AM
Dereknocue67 Dereknocue67 is offline
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I agree all the fixtures should be removed before the floor is installed.

Since you're installing ceramic on the floor, this will raise the floor height by about an inch or so leaving a gap between the toilet bottom and toilet drain. Some plumbers try a quick fix for this gap by installing two stacked wax seals but this can be problematic and may leak in the future. This issue is better corrected by installing a toilet flange extender on the drain once the old toilet is removed allowing the new toilet to mate to the drain using a single wax seal and sit on top of the new floor.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2011, 02:04 PM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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Thank you for all the good advice. The "tile guy" (i.e. the manage of a tile/carpet/hardwood floor store) had told my wife that usually, he puts tile around the cabinet but not under it, and that sounded funny to me, hence my question. (I think that when he said "usually" he meant that people do it that way because it's cheaper, and he likes to do that better because it's easier. )

When he comes to look at the house to measure I will use the information in this thread to get better answers out of him. Like mentioning that a toilet flange extender is a better option than two stacked wax seals! It sounds like we shouldn't do all the bathrooms at once because the whole process might not be done in one day. (There are three bathrooms.)
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2011, 03:41 PM
Quercus Quercus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Winkelried View Post
It sounds like we shouldn't do all the bathrooms at once because the whole process might not be done in one day. (There are three bathrooms.)
I think that not relying on all three being done in one day is a very, very, very good idea.

But it might be possible to do all three at about the same time, while juggling things (and maybe temporarily re-installing a toilet) to ensure that there's always a working toilet; this might be the cheapest option, assuming your contractor agrees.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2011, 03:43 PM
corkboard corkboard is offline
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I wouldn't use your tile guy. Stacked wax seals? Tile around the toilet and vanity? That sounds ludicrous.

Last edited by corkboard; 11-10-2011 at 03:44 PM..
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2011, 03:47 PM
Munch Munch is offline
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Originally Posted by Dereknocue67 View Post
Some plumbers try a quick fix for this gap by installing two stacked wax seals but this can be problematic and may leak in the future.
Can I ask why it's problematic? I've seen them use two wax seals all the time on the shows (TOH, etc.). I think they do it on normal jobs, not where they'd need an extension. As such, that's what I did when I had to take my toilet out to paint behind it. Should I not have done that?
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:08 PM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corkboard View Post
I wouldn't use your tile guy. Stacked wax seals? Tile around the toilet and vanity? That sounds ludicrous.
To be clear: stacked wax seals was never something he said, it was mentioned in this thread. Until this thread I never thought about what to do if the toilet is an inch higher because of the ceramic tile. I don't know what his plan was going to be when replacing the toilet.

He also said he was going to lift the toilet and put tile underneath it, he was not going to tile around it.

What the tile guy did say was that he would tile around the cabinet but not underneath it. Armed with the information in this thread, I will be telling him that renowned experts FluffyBob, Dewey Finn, jasg, Sudden Kestrel, bump, Dereknocue67 et al. (sorry if I forgot anyone) have told me that he needs to also put tile under the vanity.

Last edited by Arnold Winkelried; 11-10-2011 at 05:11 PM..
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:15 PM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quercus View Post
I think that not relying on all three being done in one day is a very, very, very good idea.

But it might be possible to do all three at about the same time, while juggling things (and maybe temporarily re-installing a toilet) to ensure that there's always a working toilet; this might be the cheapest option, assuming your contractor agrees.
Or we could use chamber pots, like in the good old days. I just don't know where I would empty the chamber pots. I suppose it would be uncouth to do it in the storm drain in the street.
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2011, 06:42 PM
FlyByNight512 FlyByNight512 is offline
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Originally Posted by Arnold Winkelried View Post
Or we could use chamber pots, like in the good old days. I just don't know where I would empty the chamber pots. I suppose it would be uncouth to do it in the storm drain in the street.
Uncouth indeed - who ever heard of carrying your personal waste outside for all and sundry to see? Just throw it out the window.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:50 AM
Colophon Colophon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Winkelried View Post
What the tile guy did say was that he would tile around the cabinet but not underneath it. Armed with the information in this thread, I will be telling him that renowned experts FluffyBob, Dewey Finn, jasg, Sudden Kestrel, bump, Dereknocue67 et al. (sorry if I forgot anyone) have told me that he needs to also put tile under the vanity.
I think it's totally a matter of choice. When we had our bathroom done, the guy fitted the vanity unit first, then the tiler tiled up to it. It's a totally fitted unit that takes up the whole of one wall and goes right down to floor level, so there seemed no reason to tile under it. Similarly the tiles only extend up to the feet of the bath rather than right under it.

It's the same as the debate about whether tiles should go under kitchen cabinets or not. You can read arguments either way. (We tiled right underneath in our kitchen.)

Anyone that tiles around a toilet is a cowboy, though.

Edit: I will also add this - if you are replacing linoleum with tile, make sure the tiler lays down proper, thick, waterproof board, fitted securely, that will not flex at all. Any flexing in the backer board will quickly lead to tiles coming loose and/or cracking. Flexible grout is also wise.

Last edited by Colophon; 11-11-2011 at 10:52 AM..
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  #21  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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One reason to tile under the vanity is because you might want to replace it at some point. I know that over twenty years or so, my mother had the same tile in the bathroom but changed the vanity at least once (including going from a wall-mounted sink to a vanity at one point).
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  #22  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:34 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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As for tile and the vanity, you can do it either way. On a custom home, the cabinets are usually put in before the floor. It's a cleaner look. But if you're buying your vanity from HD, then it probably is meant to be put on top of tile. You usually want a 4" high toe kick, so you lose an inch if you tile after. Check your vanity to see.

The only real issue with tiling before, is that you are putting wood (vanity) across grout lines, so it won't be as clean looking as when you tile up to the toe kick.
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  #23  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:10 PM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colophon View Post
If you are replacing linoleum with tile, make sure the tiler lays down proper, thick, waterproof board, fitted securely, that will not flex at all. Any flexing in the backer board will quickly lead to tiles coming loose and/or cracking. Flexible grout is also wise.
Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to ask about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Colophon View Post
I think it's totally a matter of choice. When we had our bathroom done, the guy fitted the vanity unit first, then the tiler tiled up to it. It's a totally fitted unit that takes up the whole of one wall and goes right down to floor level, so there seemed no reason to tile under it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
As for tile and the vanity, you can do it either way. On a custom home, the cabinets are usually put in before the floor. It's a cleaner look. But if you're buying your vanity from HD, then it probably is meant to be put on top of tile. You usually want a 4" high toe kick, so you lose an inch if you tile after. Check your vanity to see.

The only real issue with tiling before, is that you are putting wood (vanity) across grout lines, so it won't be as clean looking as when you tile up to the toe kick.
This is a good point. If I'm tiling under the vanity, then to get a cleaner look, I should probably choose a vanity that has four legs, something like this
St. Paul Classic 30 in. Vanity in Antique White with Stone Effects Top in Avalon
Model # CL3018P2COM-AW
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  #24  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:24 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Originally Posted by Arnold Winkelried View Post
This is a good point. If I'm tiling under the vanity, then to get a cleaner look, I should probably choose a vanity that has four legs, something like this
St. Paul Classic 30 in. Vanity in Antique White with Stone Effects Top in Avalon
Model # CL3018P2COM-AW
A lot of people seem to like the "furniture" look of that type of vanity. Keep in mind that it's probably going to wobble a little unless your floor is perfectly flat, so you might have to fiddle with the bottom a bit to make sure it sits squarely on the floor.
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  #25  
Old 11-11-2011, 04:08 PM
FluffyBob FluffyBob is online now
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Any cabinet should be shimmed level then fastened securely to the wall with three inch screws into studs. It should not be wobbling or moving in any way. Cabinets with legs should have adjustable feet.

There is really nothing wrong with not tiling under the vanity if there is toe kick. Unless you are installing a temporary vanity it is unlikely to be replaced in a future renovation without the floor being done also. I think

Whether to use extra thick wax seals, a flange riser or to unbolt and raise the flange when reflooring is often dependent on the particular situation. Doubling up wax rings is not as reliable but the extra thick ones work fine.
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