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  #101  
Old 11-17-2011, 05:58 PM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by kayaker View Post
I know. Kinda a jah/yeah thing.

ETA: We Jammin!
See, I thought Jah was pronounced with a Y, but Marley23 insists its the J sound.
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  #102  
Old 11-17-2011, 07:14 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird
So following all that, my take is 1: God wanted to state His case to The Other Waldo Pepper and/or others here and 2: God used me for this, and also 3: God used the Mod to start a new thread on it which this is (regardless of the Marley23 intentions for posting).

So any other explanations that can possibly explain this?
Yes.

God, working through Marley23, wished to demonstrate that He is tired of kanicbird invoking Him to support kanicbird's personal agenda. God, working through other posters in this thread is attempting to convince kanicbird that it is wrong and blasphemous to claim Him as the inspiration for kanicbird's fallacious thinking and ludicrous beliefs.

If this holy mission succeeds, it would be powerful evidence to convince doubters. Alas, such a miracle is almost certainly beyond even the Almighty's greatest powers.
  #103  
Old 11-17-2011, 08:04 PM
kayaker kayaker is online now
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Originally Posted by David42 View Post
See, I thought Jah was pronounced with a Y, but Marley23 insists its the J sound.
The blessing of the herb makes it matter less. Mon.
  #104  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:02 PM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
No it doesn't, but the term itself it doesn't have to be through Paul, what I believe is the religion Christianity came from a combining of the Lord and the flesh of Paul, which would be through the teachings of Paul and the place where that occurred.
Might be getting into what some call 'Paulianity.'

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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
This goes back to the OP, the term came from God, through someone, Paul, Peter, Luke, Bubba, Mary-Sue. I don't know, but does it matter who the term came through.
I can imagine scenarios where it might.

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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
I think this new term at a time after Jesus' accession has the question why now attached to it.
Why might be answered by questioning who it was that might have given the Antioch christians the name. It could have first been in a derogatory fashion. It could have represented a schism in the church.

But it could have meant otherwise. Luke did not seem to attach any derogatory significance to it.

I'm sure the Jerusalem church lasted until A.D. 70 but what happened to individuals after that I'd like to know. The roman church claims Peter came to Rome and founded their church. The scripture last has Peter at Jerusalem.

Given early Roman persecution of christians, this might make sense. I dunno.

It's a shame that Jerusalem was destroyed or we'd have better answers to questions such as exactly what the extent of the schism was.
  #105  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:06 PM
Sitnam Sitnam is offline
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I love the presumption in the title of this thread. This is a work of (my) god, can you prove its not?
  #106  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:09 PM
David42 David42 is offline
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The blessing of the herb makes it matter less. Mon.
Not so sure that I'd call that good theology but I'll think it over.

never heard of a blessing come from a plant in the scripture, but there is some indication of healing from a plant, the tree of the nations. That could be a blessing but I get the feeling I'm stretching it.

Matter less? Well, some do not agree with others about the name of Yahweh. But, in the midst of people who insist on one thing, well I don't make much of an issue about it.
  #107  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:14 PM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sitnam View Post
I love the presumption in the title of this thread. This is a work of (my) god, can you prove its not?
It could be a better OP but I thought he kind of implied the OP to make that presumption that Yah works through people to reach other people.

Kind of not a great debate, but up for the question of discussion I kinda figured was whether Yah had used kanicbird to spread his message.

It's been fun talking about Rastafarians and other stuff too, though.
  #108  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:23 PM
OpalCat OpalCat is offline
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I love the presumption in the title of this thread. This is a work of (my) god, can you prove its not?
It kind of reminds me of that kid a few weeks back who thought there was some deep meaning behind the coincidences he was experiencing.
  #109  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:03 AM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by OpalCat View Post
It kind of reminds me of that kid a few weeks back who thought there was some deep meaning behind the coincidences he was experiencing.
There could be a similarity. I remember posting in the thread; or one like it anyway. As to whether Yah was working through any of them, I'd answer such a question firstly by looking to whether what that person was consistent with other prophets.

Not that I want to get into a big discussion of what that entails. This thread has long gone astray from the OP, and wilfully by the author of the OP, and contributed to by a Mod, so I'm kinda figuring it's become a grab bag of different ideas about religion.


Directly to the OP, and by means of Occam's razor as I lack any real evidence, to answer the question as stated in the OP, I'm voting for OpalCat's point for
BEST ANSWER in the thread, even though someone else I think said this before, more or less.

But we've talked about some sideline stuff here that might make interesting threads.

Tell the truth, I'd like to see a thread about the proper application of logical fallacy arguments, ha ha.

Last edited by David42; 11-18-2011 at 12:04 AM..
  #110  
Old 11-18-2011, 02:55 AM
Princhester Princhester is offline
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Originally Posted by David42 View Post
This is not a No True Scotsman; I never changed the definition to prove myself right.
I think Jack Batty wasn't correct to characterise the fallacy he describes as, strictly, a "no true scotsman". Though the parallels between that fallacy and the Scotsman fallacy are pretty obvious.

In a no true scotsman one redefines the proposition to suit the evidence. In the fallacy Jack sets out, one redefines the evidence to suit the proposition.

I think it goes like this:

The proposition is that there is a a god which is good and would do good things.

The evidence is that events happen. These events fall into two categories:

1/ Good events: when these events happen I attribute it to this god (because he is good) and use them to imply this god's existence;

2/ Bad events: when these events happen I attribute it to something other than this god (because he is good) so they have no implications regarding this god's existence.

Between 1/ and 2/ one is redefining the implications of the evidence based solely on whether it suits the proposition.
  #111  
Old 11-18-2011, 03:04 AM
cmyk cmyk is online now
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Coincidence + Post Hoc = Miracle!

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  #112  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:40 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
God working on the SDMB who would have thought of such a thing. There have been miracle witnessing reporting threads, and this is along those lines.

Sometimes in the morning I will read scriptures, I have been in Psalms for quite some time, reading them in order. One morning I felt I should just open up the book 'randomly' but in the NT. I have had leading to open the book at 'random' before, but they don't happen often. When I did and opened directly to John 19, which is Jesus sentenced to be crucified.

Then opening the SDMB I see a response to my post in Atheists in foxholes thread by The Other Waldo Pepper stating:



Which I responded with John 19 which shows to me that Jesus was found 'not guilty' and only executed to please the crowd.

Also that the Mod requested to take such things to a new thread.

So following all that, my take is 1: God wanted to state His case to The Other Waldo Pepper and/or others here and 2: God used me for this, and also 3: God used the Mod to start a new thread on it which this is (regardless of the Marley23 intentions for posting).

So any other explanations that can possibly explain this?
You believe it was God, the words you have read were written by a human being and you choose to believe it was God speaking, God seems to tell other people it is not of his doing but what is in one's belief system, and that is as much of God speaking as anything or anyone else's beliefs. The same psalmist says" You are Gods" and Jesus backed this psalmist up, so it is a matter of one's belief and that is their or your right to believe but, it is proven to be written by a human. So in fact you believe the human that wrote it, that is a choice you can make but it doesn't mean it is a fact!
  #113  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:46 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by monavis View Post
You believe it was God, the words you have read were written by a human being and you choose to believe it was God speaking, God seems to tell other people it is not of his doing but what is in one's belief system, and that is as much of God speaking as anything or anyone else's beliefs. The same psalmist says" You are Gods" and Jesus backed this psalmist up, so it is a matter of one's belief and that is their or your right to believe but, it is proven to be written by a human. So in fact you believe the human that wrote it, that is a choice you can make but it doesn't mean it is a fact!
What basis do you claim that it was written by humans? Who wrote it? What was his or her name?
  #114  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:48 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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Originally Posted by Jack Batty View Post
Just now! I was talking to a co-worker who was a bit chilly and she whipped out her pashmina. Yesterday, I watched a re-run of Friends where Rachel's sister bought a ... you guessed it ... pashmina!

Do you know how often I've even heard the word pashmina in the last decade? Twice. Yesterday and today.

So I guess that puts Jennifer Aniston, or possibly David Schwimmer, on the short list for potential Gods now.

Anybody else got any interesting coincidence ... oops, I mean miracles ... to share?
I could list a lot I will give two examples.(1) I was driving in my car and Patti Page as singing Cross Over The Bridge, then I did come to a bridge in a few minuets,(2) Then she was singing Detour, and In a few minuets more There was indeed a detour. But there was no muddy road ahead! I don't think Patti Page was looking out for me! The frame of one's mind has a lot to do with how they see a miracle or a coincidence.
  #115  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:51 AM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is online now
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So God can open a book on a specific page for you but he can't stop priests fiddling with kids? Or doesn't want to?? or took his time about it??? Help me out here!
Yeah, I've always wondered why G-d's miracles are so.... small.
  #116  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:59 AM
stpauler stpauler is offline
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What basis do you claim that it was written by humans? Who wrote it? What was his or her name?
Occam's Razor. Your claim is the one which needs proof. Unfortunately, all you have is circular proof.
  #117  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:00 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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So God can open a book on a specific page for you but he can't stop priests fiddling with kids? Or doesn't want to?? or took his time about it??? Help me out here!
What makes even less sense to me, is why God is telling Kbird,such mundane things for the benifit of one person and doesn't give him the answer to get all people to see things the same way, so they can have facts to rely on, and not just have them believe. Facts do more than beliefs. Perhaps Kbird should have God tell the world how they can get along, without killing each other. And help the terrorists see that what they are doing is also self distructive! And why he allows an evil being to exist, but punishes some people who use the mind he is said to have given them, and can only use Kanicbird,(and very few can think like him)!
  #118  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:03 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by David42 View Post
Might be getting into what some call 'Paulianity.'
I never heard that term, but I think I would like to hear it more often if it is indeed a more accurate term for modern day Christianity.


Quote:
Why might be answered by questioning who it was that might have given the Antioch christians the name. It could have first been in a derogatory fashion. It could have represented a schism in the church.
In may have had something to do with the stoning of Stephen, which seems related to this church. At this time we have the Pharisees (and Paul/Saul) seeing one thing and Stephen seeing something totally different. This is pretty much the duality that I see when reading Paul's letters.

Quote:
But it could have meant otherwise. Luke did not seem to attach any derogatory significance to it.
The term Yankee used to be derogatory, now unless your at a Met's game it's not anymore. Meanings change over time.

Quote:
I'm sure the Jerusalem church lasted until A.D. 70 but what happened to individuals after that I'd like to know. The roman church claims Peter came to Rome and founded their church. The scripture last has Peter at Jerusalem.

Given early Roman persecution of christians, this might make sense. I dunno.

It's a shame that Jerusalem was destroyed or we'd have better answers to questions such as exactly what the extent of the schism was.
[/QUOTE]

It's been my experience that you can know just ask God and He will show you. It is His promise in scriptures. Now how He does it is up to Him, He may even give you scientific proof, I don't know.
  #119  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:08 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
Why is He doing this for me? The reason to me has been made fairly clear (which i will get to below). For everyone there is a reason, the reason for me is different then the reason for you or anyone here. It is for our learning, what each of us need to know. Also if we all learn something we all benefit and the glory goes to God, not us. This is the iron sharpens iron that is in OT scriptures and the edifying (building up) each other in the NT scriptures.

I used to believe that God doesn't work much in our world, and saw those who would state otherwise as fools, or interpreting coincidences way to much, so in some ways it is hard for me to post this thread, to stand up in such way that appears foolish. I have to say it does hurt when I read what some posters comment about me in this and other threads. But really I need to be true to God and what He has shown me, and not remain silent when I see His work. I believe my part was to state how I see the work of God in this. It's the stating that I believe He wants me to learn.
Did you ever hear of thoughts Of grandeur? This sounds like that to me.
  #120  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:10 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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What makes even less sense to me, is why God is telling Kbird,such mundane things for the benifit of one person and doesn't give him the answer to get all people to see things the same way, so they can have facts to rely on,
Because God does not want us to depend on facts, but the relationship between God and man.

The OT system is based on rules and regulations, the Law etc. But we were meant and designed not to follow the Law, but to try new things without bounds, to learn and explore, to ever experience new and wonderful things. To God we are but infants learning how to crawl. What is impossible for us now will not forever be, but hard laws and what we think are facts limit us hinder our growth and prevent us from seeing outside the box we have crawled into. It comes from all things are possible with God, though He has to take us there when we are ready.

Quote:
and not just have them believe. Facts do more than beliefs. Perhaps Kbird should have God tell the world how they can get along, without killing each other. And help the terrorists see that what they are doing is also self distructive! And why he allows an evil being to exist, but punishes some people who use the mind he is said to have given them, and can only use Kanicbird,(and very few can think like him)!
The way was made clear by Jesus.
  #121  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:12 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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I am a Christian myself and I, in fact, do believe that the method in which God "acts" is through the sort of thing that kanicbird describes in the OP. The problem is, however, that these sorts of things are only really meaningful to those directly involved, just as with any other personal anecdote. To those who believe it, it is clearly an act of God, and to those who don't, they will see mere coincidence, subconscious action, confirmation bias, or some other phenomenon or, even if they can't reasonably explain it, will resolve that there must be a naturalistic explanation. The thing is, these sorts of circumstances are inevitably filtered through our own experiences and our own beliefs and so can't possibly act as any sort of meaningful proof for or against either view.

But here's my question to you, kanicbird. If God has put these series of events before you, what do you feel is his purpose it so doing, not for someone else's benefit, but specifically for you? By this, I mean, when we interpret these sorts of things as though there is no coincidence, then we have to consider other possibilities of how such things may be accomplished. If, for instance, God only wanted TOWP to read it that verse, we could probably come up with dozens of different ways he may have read it without your involvement. Thus, on these assumptions, there is as much a lesson for you to be learned, as for anyone else and, as such, there are lessons for everyone else involved too. Further, what you may believe the lessons may be for others may or may not be what they actually are.

However, for those who do believe certain things are coincidence, they may not even search for any particular lesson and may not find it, or the lesson may be a from a series of events, of which that particular event is only one. Or, if we decide there is no lesson for some individual involved, then we must accept that sometimes events simply are coincidence. Either way, I ask the question above because I think that though we should act on things as we believe we should, we can only ever actually effect those lessons into ourselves.
Kancbird says he isn't Christian, but uses the Christian Bible as his religion. At least that is how it appears to me. So in a sense, God is telling him that Christianity is not (God's) religion!
  #122  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:12 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Did you ever hear of thoughts Of grandeur? This sounds like that to me.
From my last post right above this, it would seem like you are trying to place me in that spot, yet I give that to Jesus.

So though I do appreciate the offer, it is not for me, but Him.

thanks
  #123  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:13 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Kancbird says he isn't Christian, but uses the Christian Bible as his religion. At least that is how it appears to me. So in a sense, God is telling him that Christianity is not (God's) religion!
God doesn't have a religion, but a relationship. I follow and serve Lord Jesus and that is how I would define myself.
  #124  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:18 AM
marshmallow marshmallow is online now
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Could God create an argument so circular even he couldn't believe it?
  #125  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:20 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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Part of it came from a very interesting set of verses in one of Paul's letters that I believe shows the split between the flesh of Paul and the Spirit of God at war with each other


Here in verse 12, where the Lord actually said I don't stand with Paul on this, this is not Me. Likewise Verse 10 is the Lord with Paul saying it's not Paul.

So the Lord and Paul did not stand together on this.

Paul also talks about the war inside him, saying/doing things he doesn't want to do and the other way around. There was a large war inside Paul. When Paul speaks of being a prisoner of Lord Jesus, I believe that was when Jesus was able to confine the flesh of Paul, greatly limiting it's ability. This ends with the death of Paul in Rome and the eternal life of Jesus inside Paul as I have taken Paul's letters.

It shows to what length God will go to save someone, and how we must share each others burdens. Paul I believe was so steeped in Jewish OT law that even today, what we considered Christianity is us bearing some of Paul's burden 2000 years later.
Paul also said,"It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me".
  #126  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:22 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Could God create an argument so circular even he couldn't believe it?
I believe your beliefs are a example of this. I also believe He will show you that in His time.
  #127  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:28 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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What basis do you claim that it was written by humans? Who wrote it? What was his or her name?
It is in a human book, and in the 300's the Bishops of the church were called to gather by Constantine to decide what books were inspired and what were not, then they disgarded any that they didn't want in their scriptures, and you are the only person who thinks humans didn't write all that is written, even when Jesus was said to have written in the sand, he was said to be human.Then ask your God why Jesus only wrote in sand and not a book himself. You must prove that God wrote or said anything and since you can't it seems you like to pass the buck!
  #128  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:30 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Paul also said,"It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me".
Galatians I believe historically came after the explicitly stated conflict between God and Paul in 1 Cor 7:12

So it is possible that Paul no longer lives between those 2 times, but if Paul died then why in Philemon (far later) did Paul identify himself as a prisoner of Christ Jesus?

Jesus did not achieve glory after His death, but after His Resurrection. So even if Paul died does not mean that's the end of that flesh, but the final refinement.

Last edited by kanicbird; 11-18-2011 at 08:30 AM..
  #129  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:32 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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Because God does not want us to depend on facts, but the relationship between God and man.

The OT system is based on rules and regulations, the Law etc. But we were meant and designed not to follow the Law, but to try new things without bounds, to learn and explore, to ever experience new and wonderful things. To God we are but infants learning how to crawl. What is impossible for us now will not forever be, but hard laws and what we think are facts limit us hinder our growth and prevent us from seeing outside the box we have crawled into. It comes from all things are possible with God, though He has to take us there when we are ready.



The way was made clear by Jesus.
That is your own personal belief and religion, it has no appeal for me. It doesn't make sense, and thinking you are a chosen person of God also sounds more like egotism and that could sound like Satan has a hold of you and tries to get you to lead people away from the truth. Beware of false prophets!!
  #130  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:33 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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It is in a human book, and in the 300's the Bishops of the church were called to gather by Constantine to decide what books were inspired and what were not, then they disgarded any that they didn't want in their scriptures, and you are the only person who thinks humans didn't write all that is written, even when Jesus was said to have written in the sand, he was said to be human.Then ask your God why Jesus only wrote in sand and not a book himself. You must prove that God wrote or said anything and since you can't it seems you like to pass the buck!
It is your burden to prove your assertions or state outright the assumptions you are using, not mine.

You statement stands unsupported. And in this post you make another unsupported assertion.
  #131  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:38 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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That is your own personal belief and religion, it has no appeal for me. It doesn't make sense, and thinking you are a chosen person of God also sounds more like egotism and that could sound like Satan has a hold of you and tries to get you to lead people away from the truth. Beware of false prophets!!
This is what they accused Jesus of.

I have often found people that accuse are normally guilt of that very thing they accuse others of.

If it has no appeal for you why do you post as you do. You obviously put lots of energy into it, so there is some appeal.
  #132  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:01 AM
jjimm jjimm is offline
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I have often found people that accuse are normally guilt of that very thing they accuse others of.
This explains why so many of the judiciary are serial killers.

kanicbird you solicited opinions about this "work of God". Here's mine: a minor coincidence occurred and you think it's not only significant but supernatural.

This is because you view the world through the lens of obsessive scrutiny of a single, ultimately flawed work, with the erroneous impression that it is the ultimate truth rather than a haphazard collection of human stories and fables.

When you post you sound like religious zealots of any denomination you may care choose, and you don't convince me that you are any more correct than would a Hindu, Muslim, Zoroastrian or Jew who proselytizes in the way you do.

It remains a minor coincidence.
  #133  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:20 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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This explains why so many of the judiciary are serial killers.
Ever hear of the death penalty, or perhaps a lesser form of taking someone's life, a sentence of life behind bars, or the life taking shorter sentences? Are you aware that the US has one of the greatest %'age of imprisoned members of the population? I believe Russia had the greatest %, then the US surpasses it, though that was quite a while ago.
  #134  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:20 AM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Princhester View Post
I think Jack Batty wasn't correct to characterise the fallacy he describes as, strictly, a "no true scotsman". Though the parallels between that fallacy and the Scotsman fallacy are pretty obvious.

In a no true scotsman one redefines the proposition to suit the evidence. In the fallacy Jack sets out, one redefines the evidence to suit the proposition.

I think it goes like this:

The proposition is that there is a a god which is good and would do good things.

The evidence is that events happen. These events fall into two categories:

1/ Good events: when these events happen I attribute it to this god (because he is good) and use them to imply this god's existence;

2/ Bad events: when these events happen I attribute it to something other than this god (because he is good) so they have no implications regarding this god's existence.

Between 1/ and 2/ one is redefining the implications of the evidence based solely on whether it suits the proposition.
This would make more sense if you showed that there aren't christians who attribute bad things to Yah. For people who read carefully, Yah takes credit for calamities and other evils. Some individuals may do this, but its not present in this thread.

I have never attributed all good to Yah and dismissed all evil as from some other source.
  #135  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:25 AM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by monavis View Post
What makes even less sense to me, is why God is telling Kbird,such mundane things for the benifit of one person and doesn't give him the answer to get all people to see things the same way, so they can have facts to rely on, and not just have them believe. Facts do more than beliefs. Perhaps Kbird should have God tell the world how they can get along, without killing each other. And help the terrorists see that what they are doing is also self distructive! And why he allows an evil being to exist, but punishes some people who use the mind he is said to have given them, and can only use Kanicbird,(and very few can think like him)!
I do not see where you get the presumption that if Yah worked through kanicbird for one person, that Yah must work through kanicbird to reach all persons.
  #136  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:34 AM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
What basis do you claim that it was written by humans? Who wrote it? What was his or her name?
I have never seen a serious claim that Yah wrote the scripture with his own hands made by theologians. The claim is that Yah inspired it.

Saying "supposedly God wrote the Bible," is a strawman that the deriders of religion build to mock the claims adherents.

Yeah there are some whackos who insist that men didn't write the bible and Yah was dictating every last word, but that's not what "inspire" means.

To illustrate: I am a songwriter. Occasionally someone inspires me to write a song. This means I got the spark of an idea from them. But did this person tell me every last word to write? No, they did not dictate the words of the song even though they gave me the idea.

In all of the bible there is one thing it claims Yah wrote--the ten commandments, with His finger, in stone.
  #137  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:40 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by David42 View Post
I have never seen a serious claim that Yah wrote the scripture with his own hands made by theologians. The claim is that Yah inspired it.

Saying "supposedly God wrote the Bible," is a strawman that the deriders of religion build to mock the claims adherents.

Yeah there are some whackos who insist that men didn't write the bible and Yah was dictating every last word, but that's not what "inspire" means.

To illustrate: I am a songwriter. Occasionally someone inspires me to write a song. This means I got the spark of an idea from them. But did this person tell me every last word to write? No, they did not dictate the words of the song even though they gave me the idea.
I think this thread demonstrates how God uses man, at least a theory of how that could happen. So it is God who is doing the communication through man, man is just copying and learning from the inspiration. This is how I take the scripture writings, actually every writing that has ever existed as all creation is from God, though God uses man for some of creation.

By my post is to challenge the unsupported assertions of Monavis that every writing was made by man (this is more a direct quote from another thread). I don't believe he can prove it without assumptions such as using Occam's razor, nor do I believe it to be accurate. If Monavis makes such assumptions he should state them.

Quote:
In all of the bible there is one thing it claims Yah wrote--the ten commandments, with His finger, in stone.
The handwriting on the wall in the book of Daniel did not seem to be written by humans.

Last edited by kanicbird; 11-18-2011 at 09:43 AM..
  #138  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:42 AM
jjimm jjimm is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
Ever hear of the death penalty, or perhaps a lesser form of taking someone's life, a sentence of life behind bars, or the life taking shorter sentences? Are you aware that the US has one of the greatest %'age of imprisoned members of the population? I believe Russia had the greatest %, then the US surpasses it, though that was quite a while ago.
1. You're equating putting people in jail with serial killing? Seriously?
2. Why are you telling me about the death penalty in the US? The death penalty is, for example, outlawed in heathen Europe.

Weak.
  #139  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:46 AM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by monavis View Post
What makes even less sense to me, is why God is telling Kbird,such mundane things for the benifit of one person and doesn't give him the answer to get all people to see things the same way, so they can have facts to rely on, and not just have them believe. Facts do more than beliefs. Perhaps Kbird should have God tell the world how they can get along, without killing each other. And help the terrorists see that what they are doing is also self distructive! And why he allows an evil being to exist, but punishes some people who use the mind he is said to have given them, and can only use Kanicbird,(and very few can think like him)!
I must have missed kanicbird's claim that it can only happen through him.

I am entirely willing to believe that Yah can and does work through people. But I think you might have missed kanicbird's message of love. He's posted about it several times. This is how the world can get along--"Love your neighbor as yourself." The world is too busy criticizing one another to take it seriously, One reason is because some people abuse this message for political gain. For instance, do I believe that Rick Perry loves me? Do I believe that he will treat me as he desires to be treated? It appears more likely that he is boasting of his christianity for his own purposes, namely, success in politics.

yes, we could all get along if we loved one another. why do you reject the message kanicbird has and then criticize him for not having a message the whole world can use?

Last edited by David42; 11-18-2011 at 09:46 AM..
  #140  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:48 AM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
I think this thread demonstrates how God uses man, at least a theory of how that could happen. So it is God who is doing the communication through man, man is just copying and learning from the inspiration. This is how I take the scripture writings, actually every writing that has ever existed as all creation is from God, though God uses man for some of creation.

By my post is to challenge the unsupported assertions of Monavis that every writing was made by man (this is more a direct quote from another thread). I don't believe he can prove it without assumptions such as using Occam's razor, nor do I believe it to be accurate. If Monavis makes such assumptions he should state them.



The handwriting on the wall in the book of Daniel did not seem to be written by humans.
Yes I stand corrected, the handwriting on the wall is another example of something Yah directly wrote.
  #141  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:56 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by jjimm View Post
1. You're equating putting people in jail with serial killing? Seriously?
2. Why are you telling me about the death penalty in the US? The death penalty is, for example, outlawed in heathen Europe.

Weak.
Y.E.S. I am equating them and for a very good reason. It's all about the world power structure. Those who have authority cause others to bear the burden of society. The strong tell the weak what to do and who they are. This goes to legal authority as well as social structures and family structures.

This is what Jesus came to set people free of this power system. From someone's parents telling them they are no good, from a homeless or minority person that no one will give a job to, to the criminal who believes crime is the only way for them.
  #142  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:57 AM
David42 David42 is offline
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Originally Posted by monavis View Post
Kancbird says he isn't Christian, but uses the Christian Bible as his religion. At least that is how it appears to me. So in a sense, God is telling him that Christianity is not (God's) religion!
Scripture predicts a false church that is very popular. I would tend to agree that mainstream christianity is NOT approved of by Yah. Now, there are a few elements in mainstream christianity that Yah would approve of, according to scripture, but so much is ignored and so much is added in, its a far cry from scripture indicates is pleasing to Him.

Yah can work with anything though, and so sometimes mainstream christianity is used to reach people.

In the end, most mainstream christians are more devoted to doing things their way than the bible way--for instance, try telling them they should lose the christmas trees, and point to what the prophet Jeremiah wrote, and they'll completely ignore it in favor of their invented doctrine that christmas trees honor christ. How can you honor a man with something contrary to his views? It's like naming an aircraft carrier after a pacifist who doesn't approve of aircraft carriers.
  #143  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:12 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is online now
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
Y.E.S. I am equating them and for a very good reason. It's all about the world power structure. Those who have authority cause others to bear the burden of society. The strong tell the weak what to do and who they are. This goes to legal authority as well as social structures and family structures.

This is what Jesus came to set people free of this power system.
I thought he came to tell weak people they should turn the other cheek and resist not evil, forgiving strong folks their trespasses in between rendering unto Caesar?
  #144  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:21 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by David42 View Post
Scripture predicts a false church that is very popular. I would tend to agree that mainstream christianity is NOT approved of by Yah. Now, there are a few elements in mainstream christianity that Yah would approve of, according to scripture, but so much is ignored and so much is added in, its a far cry from scripture indicates is pleasing to Him.

Yah can work with anything though, and so sometimes mainstream christianity is used to reach people.
Jesus does recognize the Pauline churches in Revelation and wants to work with them, so I would not say these are the false ones (though Thyatira was pretty much borderline). In my claim was these churches were Jesus + Paul together with Paul dieing out at which time the religion dies and there is just the relationship between God and man.

As such I dislike the Christianity is the false church take on it, but place it with the all things are working for the good.

Quote:
In the end, most mainstream christians are more devoted to doing things their way than the bible way--for instance, try telling them they should lose the christmas trees, and point to what the prophet Jeremiah wrote, and they'll completely ignore it in favor of their invented doctrine that christmas trees honor christ. How can you honor a man with something contrary to his views? It's like naming an aircraft carrier after a pacifist who doesn't approve of aircraft carriers.
I'd say it's what's in your heart. To me the Christmas tree is a vision of the beauty to come in nature.

I dislike the 'don't celebrate this event' line of thinking as believe God wants us to celebrate Him, His creation and Him in each of us, which allows all celebrations.
  #145  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:26 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
I thought he came to tell weak people they should turn the other cheek and resist not evil, forgiving strong folks their trespasses in between rendering unto Caesar?
Yes, it is trust in the authority in Heaven which is above all earthly authority to set injustices right. The OT states that many times, though there is usually a time delay which we don't like (see Habakku).
  #146  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:36 AM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
For clarity
1: I don't read it every day
2: I usually stick to the book I am in
3: Very rarely I believe I am lead to open it at 'random', in this case after reading that scripture I opened up the SD and read your post, the very next thing.
I was thinking of your OP and opened my bible randomly and got Deuteronomy 23:1

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."

So should I conclude that God thinks you're a eunuch?
  #147  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:37 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is online now
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I've lost track of how this relates to the original topic. I was going to say that before I saw Fenris' post.
  #148  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:39 AM
jjimm jjimm is offline
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Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
Y.E.S. I am equating them and for a very good reason. It's all about the world power structure. Those who have authority cause others to bear the burden of society. The strong tell the weak what to do and who they are. This goes to legal authority as well as social structures and family structures.
Now you just sound like a conspiracy theorist.

Re. the religious stuff, have you ever considered that to someone outside your religious worldview you sound the same as a zealot of any other religion? Listen to an Imam interpreting the world via Mohammed, Allah and the Koran, or a Hindu Guru seeing things as the will of Vishnu and Rama: that's what you sound like to me. What would those examples sound like to you?
  #149  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:42 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Originally Posted by hogarth View Post
Every time you read a line of scripture, it happens to someone you know?

For the love of God, DON'T READ 2 KINGS 2 AND THEN TAKE YOUR KIDS TO THE ZOO!!
I did that. It was horrible - a group of kids laughed at a she-bear and suddenly a couple of bald guys appeared and mauled them to death. Gruesome.

My favorite Bible passage is the one where Jesus feeds the thosuands with loaves of bread and plates of shrimp.
  #150  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:44 AM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by jjimm View Post
Now you just sound like a conspiracy theorist.

Re. the religious stuff, have you ever considered that to someone outside your religious worldview you sound the same as a zealot of any other religion? Listen to an Imam interpreting the world via Mohammed, Allah and the Koran, or a Hindu Guru seeing things as the will of Vishnu and Rama: that's what you sound like to me. What would those examples sound like to you?
Quite honestly, given the opportunity to listen to what they were saying, I would prayerfully consider if their message was born of Love or not.

I really don't care what word or name they use for the term Love.

Last edited by kanicbird; 11-18-2011 at 10:47 AM..
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