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  #1  
Old 02-12-2012, 07:16 PM
stanger stanger is offline
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Blu-ray, DVD and Digital Copy

I see the movie "Suckerpunch" is available on (3)DVDs and its format is listed as "Blu-ray/DVD", and it also says its edition is "Extended Cut, includes Digital Copy".

As far as I know, all Blu-ray is marketed on DVDs, so does this description mean that there is a "Blu-ray" version on the discs AND a standard "DVD" version, or just the Blu-ray version?

Will this DVD (not the Digital Copy) play back on a standard DVD player or computer or only on a Blu-ray player?

I assume that the "Digital Copy" will play back on a computer? Is this usually in a quality that the standard DVD version would be in, or an HD version like the Blu-ray would be?
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  #2  
Old 02-12-2012, 07:25 PM
Sunspace Sunspace is offline
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Blu-ray (BD) discs are not the same as DVD discs; BDs have approximately five times the data-storage capacity as DVDs, and are read with a blue laser rather than a red laser. A BD cannot be read in a DVD player.

The product may include two separate movie discs, one in BD format and one in DVD format, plus a third disc that contains a copy of the movie as a single computer video file. Actual BD and DVD movie discs contain many files in a specified format.

Last edited by Sunspace; 02-12-2012 at 07:28 PM..
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2012, 03:27 AM
BeaMyra BeaMyra is offline
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Some of the digital copies can not only be played on a computer but can be put on your iPod or similar devices
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  #4  
Old 02-13-2012, 07:56 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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IME with other movies, it will contain a blu-ray disk and a DVD disk (playable in a standard DVD player) of the movie. It may or may not contain a 3rd disk with a digital copy that you can load to your PC/MAC, and then move to an ipod or other device.

I say may or may not, because we've gotten some (Harry Potter movies I think) that only included a code & a website, which would download the movie to your PC. The ones that had a disk also had a code & website which you had to access before it would transfer the movie to your PC.
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  #5  
Old 03-12-2013, 02:25 PM
sambson sambson is offline
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Blu-ray * DVD * Digital Copy is BAIT & SWITCH!!

I am very upset. My wife went to the trouble of getting me this set for my birthday and it's adorned with intentionally misleading advertising all over it. In the blue banner at the top it says, "Blu-Ray * DVD * Digital Copy" with the separating dots clearly indicating that it is supposed to be read as 3 different formats. In addition there is a silver sticker which says "HBO Select * 3 Ways To Watch * Blu-Ray | DVD | Digital Copy" Which clearly erases any lame excuse that it wasn't saying there are 3 formats inclosed. Even though it clearly states that this will play in your DVD player - IT WILL NOT. This product is intentionally packaged in a misleading manner to encourage consumers to purchase it and then force them to go out and purchase a Blu-Ray player. It's called BAIT & SWITCH people, and it's against the law. I hope someone reams them out good. I for one am done with HBO.
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  #6  
Old 03-12-2013, 02:52 PM
Pitchmeister Pitchmeister is offline
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Originally Posted by sambson View Post
I am very upset. My wife went to the trouble of getting me this set for my birthday and it's adorned with intentionally misleading advertising all over it. In the blue banner at the top it says, "Blu-Ray * DVD * Digital Copy" with the separating dots clearly indicating that it is supposed to be read as 3 different formats. In addition there is a silver sticker which says "HBO Select * 3 Ways To Watch * Blu-Ray | DVD | Digital Copy" Which clearly erases any lame excuse that it wasn't saying there are 3 formats inclosed. Even though it clearly states that this will play in your DVD player - IT WILL NOT. This product is intentionally packaged in a misleading manner to encourage consumers to purchase it and then force them to go out and purchase a Blu-Ray player. It's called BAIT & SWITCH people, and it's against the law. I hope someone reams them out good. I for one am done with HBO.
Are you quite sure there isn't another disk in the box that will play on your DVD player? Maybe you got a faulty packaging? I once received a LOTR Two Towers Special Extended Edition without the movie discs - it had the two extras discs twice. Amazon exchanged it without a problem.
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  #7  
Old 03-12-2013, 04:16 PM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is offline
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Another possibility is that it's a two-sided disc, with DVD on one side and Blu-Ray on the other.
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  #8  
Old 03-12-2013, 04:45 PM
sambson sambson is offline
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I sincerely apologize

Earlier today I wrote a scathing review and have discovered I am at fault. Indeed, inside the 'Blu-ray * DVD * Digital Copy" version of GAME OF THRONES is a wafer thin envelope with 2 DVD discs. These WILL play on a standard DVD player. They are double-sided and contain all 10 episodes for Season 1. I would like to leave my original post up, as these newer formatting issues can be confusing. I will note that there is nothing but the episodes on these DVDs. If you want ANY special features, you must buy the 5 disc DVD version, which runs for about $5 less than the Blu-ray. Thank you for your patience and understanding. My apologies to HBO and anyone else I may have slighted in my furor.

Last edited by sambson; 03-12-2013 at 04:45 PM..
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2013, 09:44 PM
Munch Munch is offline
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I'll tell Peter Dinklage that everything is kosher.
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2013, 11:07 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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While BluRay and DVD are physically distinct formats and can't be combined on a single disc, I have seen single discs that contain both the DVD and digital copies of a movie.
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  #11  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:13 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is online now
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I once bought a copy of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1 on BluRay, but it actually had Part 2 on the disc (All art, on the case and on the disc, says Part 1). I also frequently get a BluRay that includes the DVD version, and because of the inconsistent way they arrange them in a case will accidentally play the DVD disc. I usually don't even notice, which just proves how unnecessary HD really is.

Anyway, my point is that the packaging of these absurd multi-disc collections can be as confusing and misleading as sambson says, and I can empathise.
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:39 AM
Pitchmeister Pitchmeister is offline
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To be honest, I don't really see the point in selling a DVD and a Blu-Ray together. If you have a Blu-Ray player, why would you want a DVD on top? Maybe so you can play it in your bedroom. Maybe it's for people on the fence, about to buy a Blu-Ray player? These sets are usually fairly expensive, much more than the Blu-Ray version by itself, so there must be a point, I guess.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2013, 08:28 AM
Munch Munch is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitchmeister View Post
To be honest, I don't really see the point in selling a DVD and a Blu-Ray together. If you have a Blu-Ray player, why would you want a DVD on top? Maybe so you can play it in your bedroom.
For exactly that reason. Plus playing it in the car, playing it in the basement, etc. Parents with kids likely find all manner of reasons to have multiple formats handy.
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:31 AM
Max Torque Max Torque is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitchmeister View Post
These sets are usually fairly expensive, much more than the Blu-Ray version by itself, so there must be a point, I guess.
And there's your point right there. Including the extra disc costs 'em maybe 50 cents, but they can charge $5-10 more for the sale. And collectors won't buy anything but the top o' the line set, which means the most expensive one. So, might as well ratchet up the price.
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  #15  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:42 AM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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The typical excuse is that most in-car players are DVD only. (Anyone heard of in-car BluRay player?) this is why Disney typically produces the BR+DVD versions for movies that back seat passengers want to watch.

If you have a Blu-Ray player, odds are it does upconvert on a DVD - more than just playing a 480i signal, it recodes and tries to enhance the picture to 1080p. Plus, as mentioned, often the DVD has only the movie so it does not have to be as heavily compressed to fit extras on the same disk. If so, it will have more information meaning the upconvert will be good.

(I'd love to see a comparison between a DVD-only version and a DVD-which-was-included-with-BluRay movie files size.)

the digital copy - usually means you download a file using the code provided in the box. I assume it embeds this code in the movie so they could track it if it got into the "wild"; but it will play on many diverse digital devices like PCs and iPads.

Last edited by md2000; 03-13-2013 at 09:42 AM..
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  #16  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:47 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
I once bought a copy of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1 on BluRay, but it actually had Part 2 on the disc (All art, on the case and on the disc, says Part 1). I also frequently get a BluRay that includes the DVD version, and because of the inconsistent way they arrange them in a case will accidentally play the DVD disc. I usually don't even notice, which just proves how unnecessary HD really is.
Or it proves you need to see the optometrist I've done the same, and have always noticed something was wrong in the first 5 minutes - the 480p-1080p upconversion introduces artifacts that you never see on a blu-ray of a recent movie.

And I buy the Blu-ray/DVD combos for the exact reasons stated above - so I can watch them on the laptop, or the bedroom, or the kids can watch them in the car. Most new releases only come out in a combo anyway - it's generally older movies that get released as a solo blu-ray disk.

And don't even get me started on 3D/Blu-ray/DVD/Digital copy.
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  #17  
Old 03-13-2013, 11:42 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitchmeister View Post
To be honest, I don't really see the point in selling a DVD and a Blu-Ray together. If you have a Blu-Ray player, why would you want a DVD on top? Maybe so you can play it in your bedroom. Maybe it's for people on the fence, about to buy a Blu-Ray player? These sets are usually fairly expensive, much more than the Blu-Ray version by itself, so there must be a point, I guess.
I'd have no problem with them giving people the option of buying a combo pack but they often make it the only available format. So it's just greed - forcing customers to buy something they don't want in order to get something they do.

The only advantage is that you often see these movies getting dumped at pawn shops and flea markets. People sell the format they don't want and you can pick up a cheap used copy that's never been watched.
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  #18  
Old 03-13-2013, 12:58 PM
Nametag Nametag is online now
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While BluRay and DVD are physically distinct formats and can't be combined on a single disc...
That's not true; while they are different formats read with different lasers, it is possible to put both on what's called a "flipper disc"; these were introduced by Universal in 2009. I don't know if they've kept on with it, though. (I have seen it asserted that this format is really a DVD glued to the back of a Blu Ray disc, but I've never seen a flipper disc, and I have a hard time believing that such a thing would work)
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  #19  
Old 03-13-2013, 08:51 PM
Hail Ants Hail Ants is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitchmeister View Post
To be honest, I don't really see the point in selling a DVD and a Blu-Ray together. If you have a Blu-Ray player, why would you want a DVD on top? Maybe so you can play it in your bedroom. Maybe it's for people on the fence, about to buy a Blu-Ray player? These sets are usually fairly expensive, much more than the Blu-Ray version by itself, so there must be a point, I guess.
To expand on what others have said: DVD players & discs essentially replaced VCRs and VHS tapes. They achieved the same ubiquitous universal market penetration that VCRs did (only a lot faster). They almost overnight went from being a high-end, premium videophile component to an essentially disposable mass-produced commodity.

Blu-ray on the other hand hasn't reached this level (and won't). It's not because of any deficiencies in Blu-ray technology, but simply because streaming, on-demand HD video via high speed internet connections and cable/satellite boxes (usually also with built-in DVRs) became a viable competing 'format' not long after Blu-ray came out (because of this Blu-ray will be the last physical video format made). Consequently Blu-ray players & discs have retained some of that 'premium' component aspect. While most people will have a DVD player for every room/TV in the house most will only have one Blu-ray player connected to their biggest flat screen in their living room. So anyone willing to spend the money to own a physical HD disc does have a practical use for the lesser SD DVD disc too (as said, playing in cars, laptops, other rooms etc.)
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  #20  
Old 03-13-2013, 11:25 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by Hail Ants View Post
To expand on what others have said: DVD players & discs essentially replaced VCRs and VHS tapes. They achieved the same ubiquitous universal market penetration that VCRs did (only a lot faster). They almost overnight went from being a high-end, premium videophile component to an essentially disposable mass-produced commodity.
I think it's also a factor that VHS was essentially breaking new ground. Previous formats like Laserdisc never became common place. VHS was the format that made watching movies at home a common experience. So all DVD had to do was take over that existing market.
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While most people will have a DVD player for every room/TV in the house most will only have one Blu-ray player connected to their biggest flat screen in their living room. So anyone willing to spend the money to own a physical HD disc does have a practical use for the lesser SD DVD disc too (as said, playing in cars, laptops, other rooms etc.)
You'll never convince it's anything other than greed.

It's like a publisher only selling a book in a "combo" edition where you have to buy both the hardcover and paperback - and claiming it's for the convenience of readers so they can read the hardcover at home and carry the paperback around with them.

There probably are some people who do that. So sell both paperbacks and hardcovers and let the people who want both, buy both. But don't force that choice on them. BluRays and DVD's should be sold separately and the people who happen to want both can buy them that way - and the rest of us don't.
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  #21  
Old 03-14-2013, 05:01 AM
AaronX AaronX is offline
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And don't even get me started on 3D/Blu-ray/DVD/Digital copy.
I can't believe 3D Blu-Ray discs can't be played as 2D discs. Is there a reason for this, or do they just want to make more money?

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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
There probably are some people who do that. So sell both paperbacks and hardcovers and let the people who want both, buy both. But don't force that choice on them. BluRays and DVD's should be sold separately and the people who happen to want both can buy them that way - and the rest of us don't.
I don't get it, you mean they don't sell them separately? Since people are saying they cost more than BD, they must be selling BD separately.
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2013, 05:30 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is online now
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Some BluRays are sold individually, especially less popular movies or after a couple of years since initial release, but most are a combo pack, with all or some versions included in one box, and occasionally that's the only version you can get.
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:18 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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I can't believe 3D Blu-Ray discs can't be played as 2D discs. Is there a reason for this, or do they just want to make more money?
That may be possible - ISTR some of my 3D blu-rays say they're also 2D. I'll check tonight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
Some BluRays are sold individually, especially less popular movies or after a couple of years since initial release, but most are a combo pack, with all or some versions included in one box, and occasionally that's the only version you can get.
The division seems to be that new releases are usually in a combo pack, there's no way to get just the blu-ray. While re-releases of movies made before blu-ray existed are usually blu-ray only.
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:27 AM
Pitchmeister Pitchmeister is offline
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The division seems to be that new releases are usually in a combo pack, there's no way to get just the blu-ray. While re-releases of movies made before blu-ray existed are usually blu-ray only.
I have bought about 10 Blu-Rays of very recent releases. Not a single one didn't have the option of just buying the Blu-Ray (which is what I did).
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  #25  
Old 03-14-2013, 09:39 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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I don't get it, you mean they don't sell them separately? Since people are saying they cost more than BD, they must be selling BD separately.
Obviously, you can't do a direct comparison. But you can figure out and compare the average cost of a bluray-only release and the average cost of a combo release.
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  #26  
Old 03-14-2013, 04:52 PM
Hail Ants Hail Ants is offline
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You'll never convince it's anything other than greed.

It's like a publisher only selling a book in a "combo" edition where you have to buy both the hardcover and paperback - and claiming it's for the convenience of readers so they can read the hardcover at home and carry the paperback around with them.

There probably are some people who do that. So sell both paperbacks and hardcovers and let the people who want both, buy both. But don't force that choice on them. BluRays and DVD's should be sold separately and the people who happen to want both can buy them that way - and the rest of us don't.
Well, one man's greed is another's capitalist practicality! Blu-ray sales, while not in decline, are not experiencing the same explosive growth rate that previous, newly 'default' media formats (CDs, VHS, DVDs etc.) have always shown. Like I said, because of the whole 'cloud' thing Blu-rays are kind of in the same boat as CD are, owning the physical medium is becoming irrelevant now that just the content can be sold independently (and at a lower cost!)

Point is, Blu-rays have to have a slightly higher profit margin to remain viable against downloadable content. So they'd be more expensive whether they contained a bonus DVD or not. And since it only costs the studios a few extra cents to include one, they do. Unfortunately, the target market for Blu-ray disc sales is becoming the same as for those 'special edition', extras-packed, multi-DVD sets, videophiles willing to pay a premium to own a physical copy of the high-def version with the case, booklet, and extras etc.

I personally learned way back with store-bought VHS copies that me 'owning' them was kind of pointless because I'd never, ever watch them more than once! It's that 'anything possible - nothing necessary' concept. Since I can literally watch any or all of it at any time as often as I want, I don't ever want to! I'd surf to it playing on HBO and watch the whole thing, even though a had a copy sitting right on my shelf! And because they're random access I found it was doubly true for DVDs!
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  #27  
Old 03-14-2013, 06:26 PM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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I can't believe 3D Blu-Ray discs can't be played as 2D discs. Is there a reason for this, or do they just want to make more money?
I just checked my dozen or so 3D blu-rays. All of them came with regular blu-ray and DVD. 2 of them, Avatar & Conan, have a single 3D/2D blu-ray, the rest have separate disks for 2D & 3D. I've never tried putting a "3D ONLY!" disk in a regular blu-ray player.

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Originally Posted by Pitchmeister View Post
I have bought about 10 Blu-Rays of very recent releases. Not a single one didn't have the option of just buying the Blu-Ray (which is what I did).
Yeah, you're completely right. I was mixing up blu-ray & 3D mentally. 3D always comes packaged with plain blu-ray and DVD, and usually digital copy.

Last edited by muldoonthief; 03-14-2013 at 06:27 PM..
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  #28  
Old 03-14-2013, 06:57 PM
TBG TBG is offline
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I can't believe 3D Blu-Ray discs can't be played as 2D discs. Is there a reason for this, or do they just want to make more money?
I can believe it. A 3D movie is going to take roughly twice as much room on a disc as a 2D movie (roughly because the audio portion won't double in size) and in most cases probably wouldn't leave enough room for the 2D version (at least not in the bitrate people would find acceptable for image quality).

You may ask "can't they just show one of the two images (just the left or just the right) when showing 2D" and while I don't know if that's technologically possible on existing blurays and players, it certainly wouldn't be quite the same as showing an actual 2D cut of the movie. At least some stuff you would normally be seeing would be off to the side in the image you're not seeing and would wind up missing. For some movies this might turn out okay for others it might be worse than the old pan and scan problem.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:02 PM
JayRx1981 JayRx1981 is offline
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I just checked my dozen or so 3D blu-rays. All of them came with regular blu-ray and DVD. 2 of them, Avatar & Conan, have a single 3D/2D blu-ray, the rest have separate disks for 2D & 3D. I've never tried putting a "3D ONLY!" disk in a regular blu-ray player.
In theory, they should actually still play in a 2D only player. Standards-meeting 3D Blu-rays don't actually encode both the left and the right frames sequentially in the video file(s) on the disc. Instead, only one eye's perspective is encoded into the disc's main video file. The other eye gets recreated using information in delta files in a sub-directory known as the SSIF directory and those frames are then inserted into the movie playback on the fly by a 3D capable player. A 2D player should just ignore the SSIF sub-directory altogether and playback the one eye's perspective, which is likely indistinguishable from the 2D Blu-ray's video file.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:18 PM
AaronX AaronX is offline
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I can believe it. A 3D movie is going to take roughly twice as much room on a disc as a 2D movie (roughly because the audio portion won't double in size) and in most cases probably wouldn't leave enough room for the 2D version (at least not in the bitrate people would find acceptable for image quality).
Is that true? For stereo audio compression I know it's not. They encode 1 track and the differences, not 2 tracks.

I know playing only 1 stream from 3D may not be as good as a real 2D video, but to not have that option seems ridiculous. From what I've heard, 2D players can't play 3D discs. I hope that's wrong.
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  #31  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:07 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is online now
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From what I've heard, 2D players can't play 3D discs. I hope that's wrong.
I just watched Dredd, and it had the "3D or 2D" option in the menu. I don't have a 3D player so I'm not sure what would've happened if I picked the 3D one. My TV is 3D compatible though.
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  #32  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:45 AM
AaronX AaronX is offline
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There's conflicting information when I search. It seems to depend on the individual discs, some studios disable 2D mode on their 3D discs.
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  #33  
Old 03-15-2013, 09:41 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by Hail Ants View Post
Well, one man's greed is another's capitalist practicality! Blu-ray sales, while not in decline, are not experiencing the same explosive growth rate that previous, newly 'default' media formats (CDs, VHS, DVDs etc.) have always shown. Like I said, because of the whole 'cloud' thing Blu-rays are kind of in the same boat as CD are, owning the physical medium is becoming irrelevant now that just the content can be sold independently (and at a lower cost!)
Perhaps. Or maybe you've got the tail wagging the dog.

You note that other media were sold as a single format and sold better than BluRays are. You suggest poor sales is the reason BluRays have to be sold as a combined format. I'd suggest that being sold as a combined format might be the reason why BluRays have poor sales.
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  #34  
Old 03-15-2013, 09:54 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitchmeister View Post
I have bought about 10 Blu-Rays of very recent releases. Not a single one didn't have the option of just buying the Blu-Ray (which is what I did).
Recent or upcoming releases that are not available in a single BluRay edition:

Argo
Breaking Dawn
Cloud Atlas
Django Unchained
Flight
Frankenweenie
Hansel & Gretel
Hitchcock
The Hobbit
Hotel Transylvania
Jack Reacher
Killing Them Softly
Les Miserables
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Red Dawn
Rise of the Guardians
Silver Linings Playbook
Skyfall
This Is 40
Wreck-It Ralph
Zero Dark Thirty
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  #35  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:55 PM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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I suppose the problem is just that - some movies are sold as DVD, some a BluRay. The market is in transition. while some movies may be visually spectacular and SHOULD be watched on BluRay (Avatar, for example), for many others, who cares? Do you need "Meet the Fokkers" in hi-def to truly enjoy it? (Assuming that's possible) If not, why would you pay a premium when DVD is cheaper?

So, between the people who haven't upgraded yet, and the people who don't see the extra value for that movie, the ones who think upconverted is just fine, the people who get their movies from Netflix or otherwise online, and the people who would like it on BluRay but need a copy for the minivan DVD player... No surprise BR-only sales are not taking off.

Plus, people probably see the value of paying more when the package includes an extra disk... even though that disk probably cost less than a dollar. So I think it's a chicken and egg scenario - people are more likely to spend extra if it includes 2 disks; if they don't get DVD also, they probably find DVD-only more practical and cheaper... 2 options are simpler and easier to stock in-store than 3 options.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:09 PM
Revtim Revtim is offline
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When they say "digital copy" do they mean an Ultraviolet code, or is the digital copy playable on a PC actually included on one of the disks? If so, what format is it?
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  #37  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:32 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
I suppose the problem is just that - some movies are sold as DVD, some a BluRay. The market is in transition. while some movies may be visually spectacular and SHOULD be watched on BluRay (Avatar, for example), for many others, who cares? Do you need "Meet the Fokkers" in hi-def to truly enjoy it? (Assuming that's possible) If not, why would you pay a premium when DVD is cheaper?

So, between the people who haven't upgraded yet, and the people who don't see the extra value for that movie, the ones who think upconverted is just fine, the people who get their movies from Netflix or otherwise online, and the people who would like it on BluRay but need a copy for the minivan DVD player... No surprise BR-only sales are not taking off.

Plus, people probably see the value of paying more when the package includes an extra disk... even though that disk probably cost less than a dollar. So I think it's a chicken and egg scenario - people are more likely to spend extra if it includes 2 disks; if they don't get DVD also, they probably find DVD-only more practical and cheaper... 2 options are simpler and easier to stock in-store than 3 options.
Do you really believe that? Do you think DVD sales would have been as good if DVD's had been sold in "combo packs" with the videotape version of the movie?

And do you really feel that BluRay is the third option? I think it's pretty obviously the second option. DVD is first; BluRay is second; and DVD/BluRay combo is third. And if an option has to be tossed out, you get rid of the combo packs.
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  #38  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:54 PM
Hail Ants Hail Ants is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Perhaps. Or maybe you've got the tail wagging the dog.

You note that other media were sold as a single format and sold better than BluRays are. You suggest poor sales is the reason BluRays have to be sold as a combined format. I'd suggest that being sold as a combined format might be the reason why BluRays have poor sales.
Well, I seriously doubt that the studios would be so stupid as to 'price themselves out of the market'. Like I said, Blu-ray sales' growth is slowing because all people ever wanted to own was the 'content', and now technology has finally reached a tipping point where that's just as easy or easier and cheap or cheaper without having to go out to a store and purchase a physical medium. So the market for Blu-ray discs has had to adapt and offer more than just an HD copy of the film.
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  #39  
Old 03-18-2013, 07:18 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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Originally Posted by Revtim View Post
When they say "digital copy" do they mean an Ultraviolet code, or is the digital copy playable on a PC actually included on one of the disks? If so, what format is it?
Either, or both. Sometimes it's an Ultraviolet code, sometimes it's a separate disk (which still has a code which needs to be validated on a website), sometimes it's an iTunes or Android code for downloading the movie.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:01 AM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Do you really believe that? Do you think DVD sales would have been as good if DVD's had been sold in "combo packs" with the videotape version of the movie?

And do you really feel that BluRay is the third option? I think it's pretty obviously the second option. DVD is first; BluRay is second; and DVD/BluRay combo is third. And if an option has to be tossed out, you get rid of the combo packs.
The difference is the difference. There's no comparison between DVD and VHS. (Until DVD I never understood the logic of letterbox movies - a VHS movie looked barely good enough in full screen.)

DVD was a quantum leap up in picture quality, convenience, and durability. As a result, it was the fastest media conversion ever, and VHS pretty much disappeared - especially once DVRs were available. Blu-Ray is a victim of DVD's success. As another comment says, some people can't tell the difference. Some movies, who cares about the extra quality. WIth up-converting, the quality difference is even harder to spot. BR is not the same quantum leap. I would pay $10 more to own a DVD vs. VHS. I would not pay $5 more to own BR vs. DVD unless the movie was a visual spectacular. Nobody wanted to rush out and buy a BR replacement for a DVD player back when they were $400 vs. $39.95.

As a result, the conversion to BR is much slower, and may not even be complete before the next version comes along. It did not help that the HD had its own VHS-vs-Beta battle for the first few years.

With slow conversion, and a lot of key legacy devices, sales are going to be split. It's a vicious cycle. If the downstairs player is BR but upstairs in the kids room is DVD, what format do you buy? If the car is DVD and you want to keep the kids occupied, what format do you buy?

DVD from VHS was a quantum leap. CD from vinyl was a quantum leap. Cassette from reel-to-reel was a quantum leap. MP3 (and AVI) are a quantum leap in portability and convenience (and price...).

All these were a victim of their own success. Once the output and convenience are "good enough" what can you do to improve upon it? The follow-on techs all flopped to some extent because the original was much "good enough".

Another issue is the moeny from library replacement. If I had Monty Python or Casablanca or Star Wars on VHS, I ran out and re-bought it on DVD. (As I did with vinyl to CD). DVD and CD benefited from this phenomenon and misread it for on-going market size. Very few people run out and replace their Meet the Fokkers DVD with Blu-Ray.

Last edited by md2000; 03-18-2013 at 08:02 AM..
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  #41  
Old 03-18-2013, 09:38 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by Hail Ants View Post
Well, I seriously doubt that the studios would be so stupid as to 'price themselves out of the market'.
They're obviously not doing that. They raised the price and people pay it.

It's like when CD's were competing with albums. CD's are actually cheaper to produce than albums. But companies found out that because of the higher quality sound, people expected to pay a higher price for them. And the companies were happy to act on that expectation.
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  #42  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:50 AM
BigT BigT is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
While BluRay and DVD are physically distinct formats and can't be combined on a single disc, I have seen single discs that contain both the DVD and digital copies of a movie.
I'm pretty sure it can be physically done, as dual layer DVD/CDs exist. But it would likely be rather more expensive than just having two disks.

And I have yet to see a movie that did not have a DVD release of some kind, even if only available bundled with a Blu-ray. (My sister gets a lot of her movies from people giving her the DVD copy. Her TV's small enough and far enough away that she can't notice the difference.)
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  #43  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:28 AM
Hail Ants Hail Ants is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
They're obviously not doing that. They raised the price and people pay it.

It's like when CD's were competing with albums. CD's are actually cheaper to produce than albums. But companies found out that because of the higher quality sound, people expected to pay a higher price for them. And the companies were happy to act on that expectation.
Yeah, but even though for the most part record companies are greedy, money-grubbing scum there was the initial retooling from manufacturing vinyl to making compact discs that had to be paid for. And the technology to manufacture CDs is an order of magnitude more expensive to build & maintain than for vinyl. All told they had to have spent billions for the conversion and they certainly passed the expense on. But, as an audiophile, I find it hard to argue with those facts. Just as most manufactured goods have gotten significantly better compared to 30+ years ago, I felt that CDs and CD players were most certainly worth the (continued) extra expense.
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  #44  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:36 AM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
And do you really feel that BluRay is the third option? I think it's pretty obviously the second option. DVD is first; BluRay is second; and DVD/BluRay combo is third. And if an option has to be tossed out, you get rid of the combo packs.
The question is - with a price difference of what, a dollar or three, is the sweet spot?
I look on Amazon, and the list price for Les Miserables (the 2012 movie) and the list is $29.95 for DVD, $34.95 for BR+DVD(plus digital).

So the question is - how would you price a BR-only copy to outsell a combo pack? How much lower would it have to be before some people say "BR only is worth it" and yet you don't turn off the people who still need the DVD also?

I admit it could be a bit of a chicken-and-egg; sell only the combo, and combo sales outstrip BR-only. Maybe it's a pure money-grab. Maybe people actually want it. If people were turned off by the only choice being "five bucks and we throw in the DVD" then sales would be down.

you'll know BR has really arrived when the DVD becomes the specialty item and that the only way to get a DVD is the combo pack.

Assuming it ever arrives. The latest CES was pushing quad-resolution (4 times the pixels of HD). Of course, BR did not allow for that format, and the question for the next few years is how to deliver content. The trouble is that sharp upconverted DVD is probably good enough for 90% of video conent.
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