Mainstream Christians and Jews: Be honest, what do you think of Mormons?

Great Debates
1

I have never (knowingly) been around many Mormons, never knew much about them, never thought much about them. I think most Americans are in the same boat, or at least they were until Romney’s candidacy got a lot of conversations started about Mormonism.

But the more I learn about the Mormon church, the nuttier it seems. From its dubious origins with the “hefty” golden tablets, to its bizarre accounts of early American history, to the politically convenient changes of doctrine regarding polygamy and race, to the weird beliefs about getting your own planet to rule, to the weird practices like baptizing Anne Frank, or whomever, posthumously, etc.

Of course I don’t question their right to believe what they want, and to practice their faith to the extent that it doesn’t hurt innocent people.

But does it make me a bad person, or a bad American, to think that there is something wrong with the mental processes of people who buy this stuff? It’s obviously not a lack of intelligence or education, but is it wrong to think that adult Mormons may have an excess of gullibility, or susceptibility to indoctrination, or a lack of critical thinking? And is it wrong for me to vote accordingly?

I guess I’m most interested in answers from American Catholics, Protestants, and Jews. To atheists or agnostics, I concede that all religions might seem equally silly to you, but I’d rather not discuss that in this thread. Thank you.

2

You can believe almost anything if you’re raised to believe it from infancy. Mainstream Christianity itself proclaims some things that an intelligent pagan might consider dubious. I’ll say that individual Mormons seem like nice people, but I would not want to be a non-Mormon minority in a country where Mormons were the supermajority.

3

Catholic here.

I used to be more critical but realize that everyone’s religion sounds kooky to someone of a different faith. Catholics also believe in some kooky stuff: the Virgin Birth, Jesus walks on water, there’s that whole resurrection thing . . . We’ve just had 2000 years of time to get used to it.

So yes, I think a ton of things that Mormons believe are wacky. I now try to focus on the actions of people rather than the beliefs – “making the world a better place vs. a worse place” is the criterion I try to follow these days when I form an opinion of someone.

After all, faith is believing without proof, right?

4

I mainly care about how people act towards me, not what they believe. As stated above, all religions have some goofy stuff in them. The only real distinguishing feature of the LDS is that it’s recent enough that you can assign blame to a single person.

5

Catholic.
From the religious standpoint their beliefs put them outside Trinitarian Christianity.

John and Suzie McMormon are regular people that don’t drink coffee. Unless you constantly discuss theology with coworkers or other people you come in contact with.

6

(Emphasis added to quote: )

But Lumpy, all you would have to do is convert.

(Emphasis added to quote: )
Heh.

To get serious now:

Having an opinion on someone else’s dogmatic religion is part and parcel of having a dogmatic religious position yourself. The problem I see is attributing that opinion directly to the question of elections. (In most cases) In a “Tommy Tomorrow” cartoon the author pointed out, through his penguin avatar, that putative U.S. Presidents are supposed to be the most promising candidates as effective problem-solvers, not the most likely candidates for Messiahs from heaven. (Some rewording of the original here.)

The only exception, IMHO, is when a candidate for POTUS shows indication of advancing a particular religious agenda.

This is what JFK was careful to settle (in the negative, of course) prior to his election.

7

Presbyterian Deacon here (just to establish my bonafides for this here witnessing…)

Religion: There are a few aspects of Mormon worship that I do not agree with (mainly their sexism). I question some of their source documents as well. Adding another book to the Bible and treating with the level of, well, reverence that they hold is bit much for me as well. Then again, I am happy at times that thanks to sands of time my own core religious texts (yes, I know the Mormons use the Bible) do not have the same level of review.

Community: The Mormons help their own. The Mormons are HUGE supporters of the Boy Scouts, which I appreciate. I have never had a bad experience with a Mormon.

Politics: I am very against their heavy support of Prop 8 in California. They swing the same stick in the Boy Scouts as well on the subject of gays and lesbians. That, however, is their right.

8

Lapsed Catholic.

Theologically, I think they’re wacky, and Joseph Smith was (to me) an obvious huckster.

But I’ve never met a Mormon I didn’t like.

9

Liberal Christian here. My personal experience with LDS members is positive. Particularly dealing with them at times other than my front door, during which they are very uncomfortable (as are the JWs) because it is an unpleasant duty of theirs’.

In day to day activity Mormons are very clean cut, pleasant and honorable. Straight to the point of being comical. No dirty jokes or taking the name in vain. I like that.

Their beliefs are very strange to me. I think they are weirder than protestant Christian beliefs, but let’s face it, protestant Christian beliefs in resurrection and communion, etc. can be pretty out there too. Christianity is important to me because of it raises to divine commandment the imprecation to love everyone (including one’s enemy) even as you should love yourself and to be forgiving.

10

Nonspecifically Christian over here. I’ve had relatively little contact with Mormons. My impression is that they generally seem to be decent people who value family and community and try to practice what they believe. (There are bad apples in every barrel, of course.) If I were going to a party and were told that most of the other attendees would be Mormons, I’d assume that growing up in conservative religions means we’ll have a lot in common and will probably get along well. Mormonism does seem to lend itself to the formation of cults better than some other offshoots of Christianity, which is worrying, but I don’t hold the entire religion responsible for it.

Joseph Smith and his writings ring all my scam artist warning bells, though. I wouldn’t insult a Mormon to their face, but I have very little respect for their extra-Biblical founding documents.

11

But that’s sort of my point. I couldn’t care less whether Mitt Romney is from heaven, or goes to heaven, or even goes to church. All I care about is how well his brain works when he’s in the Oval Office. And truly, I consider his devout Mormonism (as opposed to the kind of inertial, nominal Christianity that most Americans have just from their upbringing) to be objective evidence that there is something wrong with his brain. I would feel the same way about Tom Cruise with his Dianetics, but not a mainstream Christian, Jew, Muslim, or atheist (although I doubt the latter two would get very far in the current political scene).

So I guess I’m admitting I’m not completely rational about this. I’m just wondering how much company I have.

12

Protestant checking in.

I think Mormonism is not a Christian sect, or denomination, or whatever you wanna call it. However I truly do believe that some Mormons are indeed Christians - however I think it’s despite their Mormonism.

As the people themselves go, I’ve only known 1 Mormon that was an asshole. The rest have been genuinely nice folks, friendly, family-oriented, etc.

Morals wise, I don’t have a problem with 'em for the most part. As far as the whole Moroni/Joseph Smith/Book of Mormon thing goes, they’re full of shit. “Another Testament of Jesus Christ?” The Bible didn’t need improving upon.

WRT Romney, I don’t like him (I lean conservative) but it doesn’t have anything to do with his Mormonism. If a Mormon candidate were on the same page as me politically I’d have no trouble voting for them.

13

Well, Mitt’s LDS identity is inherited. I might be more worried about a born-again evangelical. There are some really scary pre-millennialists out there.

(Raised evangelical, unaffiliated agnostic.)

14

OK, older white male, raised Presbyterian and practiced it most of my life until a few years ago when I defected to Friends over style of worship. The Bible gives little details to the joyful noise we are supposed to raise. My feeling on music is that the churches should choose a style their members will enjoy doing well. I prefer well done traditional music. Much of the way traditional music is done fails the joyful test.

The Presbyterian church holds to the doctrine of cessation. The Bible was God’s final revelation to man. Thus the Book of Mormons is invalid. Also any commands to shoot an abortion doctor, drag a homosexual behind a truck, Jim Jones, etc. are not from God. The Friends do listen for the word of God. I am still working at thrashing out the different doctrines. Nobody should join an organization or take leadership positions unless they are comfortable with the bulk of the policies. I doubt anybody is 100% in line with their church doctrine. So the Friends can’t reject anything new out of hand. But God won’t ask us to do things contrary to the Bible.

I do reject The Book of the Mormons. Note, it is interesting, that the Bible does limit church leaders to one wife.

Although mislead, I think the Mormons, since they gave up polygamy, are good people, solid family values, hard workers, honest, etc. similar to my own values.

The real question is letting ones beliefs or lack of beliefs influence policies. Many of the areas of concern are areas I would like to see the government stay out of. I am opposed to both abortion and homosexuality. I feel both should be legal, but not supported by the state. If the federal government stayed out of the curriculum, Rick Perry’s views on creation would be moot.

15

Ethnic Jew, cultural atheist here. Mormons seem pleasant and harmless enough - their particular flavour of mystical belief is no sillier than any other faith’s.

16

I’ve never met a Mormon who wasn’t a complete sweetheart, but I can say the same thing about Mennonites or Catholics or Pentecostals or any other religious group that is in the minority around here.

I do have a problem with them, though, and it’s specifically in one thing: when they start getting deceptive on how close they are to mainstream Christianity. I realize it’s probably good for recruitment to play up the similarities more than the differences. That’s fine. Just don’t pretend the beliefs that set you apart are actually not a part of your religion.

And, yes, like the Pentecostals and Mennonites, there is some misogyny, but it’s less than both of those. And it’s even less than some Southern Baptist churches I know (the largest denomination around here).

17

I have no problem with Mormons unless they’re baptising our dead. Then they can fuck right off.

18

I first discovered Mormonism at the 1964 World’s Fair (they had their own pavilion). Shortly after that, I picked up a copy of the Book of Mormon at a local county fair. It seemed extremely weird and “uncorroborated” – there wasn’t a large LDS community near me, and I never heard about these people in the news or anything. It’s as if I had somehow gone through a portal to a Parallel World to see the exhibit and pick up the book. It certainly had as much impact o n my life as if the Mormons were a fictitious group someone made up.
And like fictitious groups that only appear in giction, they were engagingly odd and interesting.

It wasn’t until I got to grad school that I encountered a.) living, breathing Mormons and b.) Mormon historical sites. I shared an office with an LDS for several years, and was eventually Best Man at his wedding (no Temples near us – it was simply a wedding in the Bishop’s house, not a Sealing in a Temple). Plus I visited the Joseph Smith household, the Sacred Grove, the Martin Harris house, and went to the Hill Cumorah pageant.
Then I moved out to Salt Lake City, and got the full-bore LDS experience.

My feelings? They parallel those of Sir Richard Burton (who visited Salt Lake to compare Mormon polygamy to Muslim polygamy, anf met with Brigham Young), who essentially felt that Mormonism was no more absurd than any other religion. I think I’[m more forgiving about LDS architecture than he was. (He thought LDS polygamy too puritanical, BTW.)It’s still a “parallel world” thing in that I could easily have lived my life without knowing about it, and it would have about as much effect, As far as I can see, Mormons are Christians, although definitely a granch apart from Catholicism, mainstream Protestantism, and most other branches. As far as LDS culture goes, they’re mainstream if right-of-center American, very family-centered, and community-driven.

They also have an intense desire to regulate your life. In Utah, they close down “adult” industries on any grounds possible, heavily regulate the sale of alcohol, try to prevent the showing of R-rated movies (even on cable), and, when I lived out there, actually tried to prosecute someone for fornication. Utah is the ultimate Nanny State, and there seems to be severe cognitave dissonance between this tendency and the heavily Republican population decrying Democrats as being “nanny staters”. This restriction is the main reason that folks I knew wished to leave the state after getting their degrees, and I know that I felt an intense feeling of relief when I left Utah for California, and could simply order a glass of wine with a meal. Rosanne Barr (who worked at the Chuck Wagon all-you-can-eat restaurant a block from my apartmrent at one time) had a line in one of her routines about a family who emigrated to the US from Eastern Europe where they had “no freedom of religion, no freedom of expression, and regulation of their lives”, so they moved them to Utah so they wouldn’t suffer culture shock. I heard her deliver this line on The Tonight Show, and the studio audience was pretty quiet, but in my apartment, I was laughing my head off.

I love SLC and the folks there, but you perpetually have the feeling that they’re not letting you be an adult.

19

As a matter of practical daily living I’m atheistic, but philosophically rather a deist (with Roman Catholic sympathies). I’ll add to the refrain that I’ve never encountered behavior on the part of Mormons that I found the slightest bit objectionable. They seem like perfectly fine people on the whole; their focus on strong family ties and community-level subsidiarity is worthy of great approbation. Nevertheless LDS theology is bizarre (even from a religious perspective) and its origins seem manifestly, obviously fraudulent to me.

So unlike Stan I won’t be a dick about it, but when asked point blank … yeah, Joseph Smith was clearly a conman; his story has more holes than a wire mesh colander; and for a religion purporting to be Christian it settles very poorly in that tradition. Masonic handshakes? Secret rituals? Special underwear? I don’t want to sound mocking — it just feels more like some esoteric/gnostic society than a religion of the kind westerners are used to.

Well, that depends. IMO “faith” as “belief without any reason” is a rather modern (and dangerous) invention. On my interpretation of the traditional Catholic understanding, faith is more like trust: one believes what seems impossible/improbable because one trusts authority, specifically the Church, who claims both divine revelation and a history stretching back to the origins of the religion. I don’t feel that Joseph Smith and his immediate followers stand up to scrutiny sufficient to be worth that trust (and they don’t have the obfuscatory veil of history to fall back on).

20

Or alcohol. Unless they’re young people doing their missionary service, in which case they may take the opportunity to sow some wild oats before settling down.