I want to homestead in Antarctica. Will I face any legal issues?

[robert_columbia]

(No, I don't really intend to, it's just a hypothetical.)

I'm your friendly neighborhood eccentric multi-billionaire. I want nothing more than to have fun plunging millions and millions into trying to homestead in the frozen continent, Antarctica, and run penguin races for my rich and eccentric friends.

There are plenty of threads on the SD and elsewhere about the state of criminal law in Antarctica. Suffice it to say, I will not be renouncing my US citizenship and am OK with at least some measure of US law still applying, such as requirements to file income tax returns.

What legal issues am I going to face just attempting to settle? Could I get put into Ice Jail for not having the right permits from who knows what country? If I homestead too close to a research base, are they going to be able to use the force of law to get me to move along?

[Senegoid]

Be sure you pay attention to the zoning and housing codes.
Don't let your lawn grow too long or get brown.

[jjimm]

I read this as "I want to be molested in Antarctica".

[srzss05]

Originally Posted by jjimm

I read this as "I want to be molested in Antarctica".

That's some strange type of dyslexia you've got there to mangle "homestead' into " be molested".

[jjimm]

Originally Posted by srzss05

That's some strange type of dyslexia you've got there to mangle "homestead' into " be molested".

It was the vertical proximity of the letters in "robert_columbia" that kinda jumbled it up when I scanned New Posts.

[Mangetout]

The Antarctic Treaty has very little to say on the matter.

[md2000]

Basically, each country is responsible for their assigned area of the continent, and except for limited scientific bases, they will allow no settlement or commercial development. So pick a zone that belongs to a country where you can afford to bribe the generalissimo enough that he can ignore the heat from almost every other country with an interest in the Antarctic, and most of the Greenpeace-like berg-huggers too.

[MrDibble]

Originally Posted by robert_columbia

What legal issues am I going to face just attempting to settle?

Unless you're there purely as a US-sanctioned researcher, and stick to the US territory, you won't be allowed to stay at all. So unless your "homestead" doubles as an official lab, you aren't going to be allowed to set up anywhere. The Antarctic Treaty reserves Antarctica for scientific purposes, and this is fairly closely monitored.

Could I get put into Ice Jail for not having the right permits from who knows what country?

Doing anything in Antarctica requires an EIA. Failure to do so is a violation of the Madrid Protocol and since it's in the interest of the various signatories to police each other, you won't be allowed to get away with not having done one, even if you stick to just US territory.

If I homestead too close to a research base, are they going to be able to use the force of law to get me to move along?

Yes. Remember, also, most of the bases have a substantial military staffing component - for *ahem* research purposes, of course.

[md2000]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tic_Region.png

[MrDibble]

Originally Posted by md2000

Basically, each country is responsible for their assigned area of the continent, and except for limited scientific bases, they will allow no settlement or commercial development. So pick a zone that belongs to a country where you can afford to bribe the generalissimo enough that he can ignore the heat from almost every other country with an interest in the Antarctic, and most of the Greenpeace-like berg-huggers too.

Antarctic treaty signatories have full access rights to each other's bases for compliance checking. There's no hiding.

[Darth Panda]

If you're that rich, just build a damn research station with attached grecian villa, bunny groto, and penguin racetrack.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by md2000

Basically, each country is responsible for their assigned area of the continent, and except for limited scientific bases, they will allow no settlement or commercial development. So pick a zone that belongs to a country where you can afford to bribe the generalissimo enough that he can ignore the heat from almost every other country with an interest in the Antarctic, and most of the Greenpeace-like berg-huggers too.

Or pick a zone that hasn't (yet) been claimed. The map you yourself posted shows many areas without any claim.

[MrDibble]

Originally Posted by psychonaut

Or pick a zone that hasn't (yet) been claimed. The map you yourself posted shows many areas without any claim.

As a (presumably) U.S. citizen, claiming virgin Antarctic territory's going to cause a diplomatic incident of note. America claims no territory and doesn't recognise other territorial claims (as it should be, IMO)

"No new claim, or enlargement of an existing claim, to territorial sovereignty shall be asserted while the present Treaty is in force"

[md2000]

Not only will other countries not allow you to be there, there is the problem of supply. With the big boys leaning on them, very few countries in the neigbourhood or even in the rest of the wrold will allow you to load up a ship and sail south. I hope you brought a lot of supplies; and enough firepower to repel the military police of several countries acting jointly. If Argentian does not want Chile or Britain starting a colony (and vice versa) for example, none of the above will allow some generic Joe Schmoe to set up his own base anywhere, especially outside the claimed zones.

Nobody's going to just ignore him.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by MrDibble

As a (presumably) U.S. citizen, claiming virgin Antarctic territory's going to cause a diplomatic incident of note.

I think a diplomatic incident may arise regardless of the citizenship of the homesteader. You think no one is going to complain to his government just because his country isn't a signatory to the treaty?

[TruCelt]

I'd say your best bet is to fund one of the labs, then make a lot of "Quality Assurance" visits.

[coremelt]

See the big portion in the bottom left of this image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tic_Region.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land

That's Marie Byrd Land which is the most remote region of Antartica and not claimed by anyone (according to the Antarctic treaty). If an eccentric billionaire setup a home there I think the reality is no one knows what would happen.

[TruCelt]

But where is the USA on that map? I thought we had the biggest chunk?

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by coremelt

See the big portion in the bottom left of this image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tic_Region.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land

That's Marie Byrd Land which is the most remote region of Antartica and not claimed by anyone (according to the Antarctic treaty). If an eccentric billionaire setup a home there I think the reality is no one knows what would happen.

I doubt that, bringing all the building supplies, workmen, food, space heaters, rentboys, and cat food (for my genetically engineered cats) to such a remote region will go unnoticed.

[MikeS]

Originally Posted by TruCelt

But where is the USA on that map? I thought we had the biggest chunk?

If you believe Wiki, the U.S. and Russia reserve the right to make a claim, but have not (yet) done so.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by TruCelt

But where is the USA on that map? I thought we had the biggest chunk?

What makes you think that?

[Elendil's Heir]

Just watch out for the weird giant penguins and the shoggoths.

[The Great Sun Jester]

Seems like you could set up a colony, possibly even with some grant money, to examine the logistics and practical application of numerous solutions to establishing colonies in harsh temperature environments. Just in case we identify a similar target planet and the means to get there. So what if the research project becomes your life's work and includes a significant number of resident 'scientists'? As long as you're producing results, and there's no reason to assume you wouldn't if your colony didn't die out, you continue to legitemize your presence there. And when you've burrowed deeply enough and have established defensible and self-sustaining habitats you start charging for your data, ultimately declaring your independence.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by psychonaut

I think a diplomatic incident may arise regardless of the citizenship of the homesteader. You think no one is going to complain to his government just because his country isn't a signatory to the treaty?

Presumably you could overcome this by becoming stateless first, but that might cause its own set of problems.

[ruh-roh]

Build your Villia in some remote place, and then when you are discovered claim you are the last living being of an indigenous local tribe that has lived there since Pangea went walk-about. You can keep your claim tied up in the courts for decades.
But good luck getting much business in your casino.

Oh - and despite their claims of a love for the sport and the excitement of the competition, anybody who goes to a penquin race really just goes there hoping to see a penquin crash.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

Presumably you could overcome this by becoming stateless first, but that might cause its own set of problems.

Even if you're stateless you've still got to get to the continent somehow. Unless you plan on swimming there with all your supplies you'll probably be taking a ship registered with a sovereign state, against which diplomatic protests will undoubtedly be lodged for abetting your settlement. In the interest of maintaining friendly international relations that government may well then decide to consider itself responsible for your forcible removal.

[Gymnopithys]

I want to homestead in Antarctica. Will I face any legal issues?

It'll be hard for you to convince a medic to come along.

Anyway, you'll be barred. The US government will stop you for safety reasons.

[electronbee]

Hrmmm... I think the OP is referring to if his homeland would prevent him. I would have to say, yes, in the general interest of any treaties. However, if he were to go self-funded, and, have the resources to pull this off, and he went to Marie Byrd Land... maybe not?

I am reminded of Sealand where a guy took over a old gun mount and made his own "country" and all. He is and was a citizen of the UK.

The real issue here is that a claim is a claim. Unless the country that has the claim enforces it, the claim means nothing. Would your country allow you to do it? No.

If you were to sell the farm and just go for it... I dunno what any country would do. they could ignore it the way the UK did with Sealand or they could send in a force and wipe you out. I think they'd just ignore you like Sealand and wait for you and your heirs to die. As in all reality, what can you do other than make a claim?

Nothing

[MrDibble]

Sealand isn't a potentially internationally contentious location, though, it's much more just a UK problem. Rockall would be a better analogy.

[coremelt]

If you actually wanted to do this you'd jump through the hoops required to become a citizen of a country that doesn't yet have an Antarctic base. Since you're an eccentric multi-billionaire is just a matter of investing the right amount of money and maybe waiting five years. Then you fund the "Republic of Cavendish Antarctic Research Institute" and name yourself the director. Get official government backing, Hire a couple of legit scientists to come with you and go set up a homestead / / / / "research base".

No one could stop you, and you wouldn't even have to use Marie Byrd Land. Take a look at a map, lots of countries have bases in other countries claims.

[qazwart]

Officially, the U.S. recognizes no Antarctica claims. In fact, all Antarctica treaty participants have officially put their claims on hold. They can do nothing to exploit their claims, and they can't prevent any nation from setting up a science station on their claims. They reserve the right to their claims, but can do nothing to express sovereignty over the land.

However, if you're going to do this, I suggest you try to do it in the area claimed by Britain, Chile, and Argentina. This way, if one nation, say Britain claims you have no right to be there, you can tell them that you talked to Chile and they said it was okay. You could probably live there for quite a long time before those three countries get together and figure out exactly what's going on.

Then again, your best best is to move to a place of true terra nulls. I hear that the Bir Tawil is very beautiful this time of year. Maybe a tetch warm for penguins races, though.

[coremelt]

The other angle is that, all you have to do to be a legit research station is have a weather box recording meteorological data. With that a a governments backing, could anyone actually stop you?

Tonga, Kiribati and Nauru are known to be particularly good at giving passports to investors very easily. "Antarctic Research Institute of Kiribati" has a nice ring to it, and when you get sick of your penguin races you can fly off to a beach villa for some down time.

[GiantRat]

Originally Posted by md2000

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tic_Region.png

From this graphic, it appears that the Aussies have the French surrounded. Surrender is imminent.

[Aleph]

Originally Posted by electronbee

I am reminded of Sealand where a guy took over a old gun mount and made his own "country" and all. He is and was a citizen of the UK.

If you were to sell the farm and just go for it... I dunno what any country would do. they could ignore it the way the UK did with Sealand or they could send in a force and wipe you out. I think they'd just ignore you like Sealand and wait for you and your heirs to die. As in all reality, what can you do other than make a claim?

Nothing

Did you forget the part where that Sealand was attacked by German mercenaries who took the king's son prisoner? The German lawyer who hired them still claims to be the Rebel Sealand Government even after UK military friends of Roy Bates retook the area. What makes you think the same thing wouldn't happen to an independent Antarctic outpost?

[Aleph]

Originally Posted by coremelt

If you actually wanted to do this you'd jump through the hoops required to become a citizen of a country that doesn't yet have an Antarctic base. Since you're an eccentric multi-billionaire is just a matter of investing the right amount of money and maybe waiting five years. Then you fund the "Republic of Cavendish Antarctic Research Institute" and name yourself the director. Get official government backing, Hire a couple of legit scientists to come with you and go set up a homestead / / / / "research base".

No one could stop you, and you wouldn't even have to use Marie Byrd Land. Take a look at a map, lots of countries have bases in other countries claims.

Take another look at that map. Lots of those countries don't ship their supplies directly from their bases. They all use the same supply networks. Unless it's headed to the Antarctica Peninsula, supplies come through McMurdo - the biggest base on the ice. Antarctica has the most extreme weather on the planet, worse than the Arctic, which makes redundancy a life-saver. There's always a fire, mechanical breakdown, plane crash, or trucks swallowed by crevasses which is also why other bases help each out. They wouldn't need to use force if they can just jam your communications and wait for you to starve because your planes can't find their place to land.

Read something like http://www.bigdeadplace.com to see how the society down on the ice is strangely different from more temperate climes.

It will take more than just a few scientists. If the power ever goes out, you'll likely freeze to death overnight.

Why would any government bother to support you? Money? Yeah, right. Ever read how heated the fights get over who gets the support contract for Antarctic bases? Even if you could find a politician to turn a blind eye, every corporation that is currently running support operations would see an independent billionaire as competition looking to take their budgets away. Raytheon Corp is already that eccentric billionaire and "there can only be one" in true Highlander style.

[Aleph]

Originally Posted by qazwart

However, if you're going to do this, I suggest you try to do it in the area claimed by Britain, Chile, and Argentina. This way, if one nation, say Britain claims you have no right to be there, you can tell them that you talked to Chile and they said it was okay. You could probably live there for quite a long time before those three countries get together and figure out exactly what's going on.

Then again, your best best is to move to a place of true terra nulls. I hear that the Bir Tawil is very beautiful this time of year. Maybe a tetch warm for penguins races, though.

The locals would figure that out very quickly. Living on the ice is like living in a small town where everyone knows everyone else's business because everyone is confined there running out of things to talk about. Radio folk are a especially talkative bunch. Especially if some new group refused to attend their parties that were offered to them.

[Aleph]

Originally Posted by md2000

Basically, each country is responsible for their assigned area of the continent, and except for limited scientific bases, they will allow no settlement or commercial development. So pick a zone that belongs to a country where you can afford to bribe the generalissimo enough that he can ignore the heat from almost every other country with an interest in the Antarctic, and most of the Greenpeace-like berg-huggers too.

Why would any generalissimo bother with what is a huge money sink with nothing flashy to show when that money could be better spent on building another presidential palace or new toys for their army?

[md2000]

Originally Posted by Aleph

Why would any generalissimo bother with what is a huge money sink with nothing flashy to show when that money could be better spent on building another presidential palace or new toys for their army?

No, the idea is to pay him off so you can settle under the name of his country. Then he takes the heat. Or takes yur money and leaves you flapping in the blizzard.

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Seems like you could set up a colony, possibly even with some grant money, to examine the logistics and practical application of numerous solutions to establishing colonies in harsh temperature environments. Just in case we identify a similar target planet and the means to get there. So what if the research project becomes your life's work and includes a significant number of resident 'scientists'? As long as you're producing results, and there's no reason to assume you wouldn't if your colony didn't die out, you continue to legitemize your presence there. And when you've burrowed deeply enough and have established defensible and self-sustaining habitats you start charging for your data, ultimately declaring your independence.

They may be politicians, but they're not that stupid. Anything that looks like a permanent settlement will draw howls from other countries' governments; they will all collaborate to ensure it disappears ASAP.