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  #251  
Old 04-02-2012, 09:35 AM
DearestDane DearestDane is offline
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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
And don't get me started about how stupid was to have Italy to switch sides 4 times during the conflict!
They tried to attract those millions of soccer fans who are convinced that Italians are a bunch of cheats.
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  #252  
Old 04-02-2012, 10:11 AM
saoirse saoirse is offline
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Originally Posted by Malacandra View Post
Yeah, they dragged them into the Pacific story too. It's not enough that we've seen them in France, in Norway, at Dunkirk, in the Battle of Britain, the Battle of the Atlantic, the Blitz, their own night bombing campaign (and a right old tear-jerker that was - seems like every single mission they were coming back with one plane in ten shot down, and that was the routine ones), Greece, Crete and North Africa - now we've got to see them all over again in Singapore, Burma, and a bunch of other places, not forgetting the Japanese prison camps like Changi and the slave labour on the railway. Someone clearly liked writing for stiff-upper-lip types with this weird master/servant dynamic between the officers and other ranks. Fairly solid rumour has it they nearly got written into the Winter War too. I mean...
I suspect that Burma subplot was some sort of veiled political commentary. I mean that Aung San character, the Japanese quisling who switches sides right before the end of the war? That name doesn't sound familiar?
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  #253  
Old 04-02-2012, 10:14 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is online now
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Originally Posted by Nava View Post
James Stewart is a colonel in the series; general in later sequels although he didn't get much screen time in these.
I'm also reminded of the stunt casting of Ted Williams as a fighter pilot. It seems like a cynical ploy to bring in Red Sox fans. Evidently, though, it worked, since they did the exact same thing in the Korea sequel and even paired him with the eventual star of The Space Program.

There were also some annoying pandering in the "Home Front" sequences. A one-armed baseball player? That breaks any suspension of disbelief.
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  #254  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:43 AM
kunilou kunilou is online now
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Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
A one-armed baseball player? That breaks any suspension of disbelief.
Not entirely unbelievable. In real life there's Jim Abbott. Not only did he only have one hand, BUT he came to the major leagues never having pitched in the minors AND he threw a no-hitter.

The one-arm baseball player character isn't nearly as improbable as the baseball player-spy character. Or, for that matter, the actress and composer who turn out to be inventors or the eccentric millionaire who builds the world's larget airplane out of plywood.

One sports-related flaw I didn't like, though. Remember how they decided to premier the Day of Infamy story right in the middle of a football game? Football wasn't nearly as big a sport back then as baseball. I would have launched it a few weeks earlier, and used the World Series as the platform. That would also have made the Bob Feller cameo more meaningful.
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  #255  
Old 04-02-2012, 04:46 PM
LAV25 LAV25 is offline
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Or how about how they tried to press the reset button on the whole French colonies thing? That played so poorly with test audiences in Asia that they had to launch several more spinoff series just to write their way out!
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  #256  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:13 PM
Polycarp Polycarp is offline
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Originally Posted by Koxinga View Post
For your first point, though, one of the most pathetic examples was Chiang Kai-shek, whom they wrote out of the main series but gave him his own show as sort of a consolation prize, titled Ihla Formosa (My Beautiful Island) . Sad, as he kept on plotting his comeback and never got it through his head he was no longer a big star. The latter show never amounted to much during his run, but there was a revival of interest and some fresh storylines once Chiang's character was finally killed off.
Just to nominate this as a major contender for Dopername/content juxtapositrion of the decade!
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  #257  
Old 04-03-2012, 02:54 AM
Koxinga Koxinga is offline
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Thanks! Two acknowledgments in one thread, I'm honored!
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  #258  
Old 04-03-2012, 10:21 AM
Attack from the 3rd dimension Attack from the 3rd dimension is offline
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On the other hand, look at the stuff they considered putting into the series but cut or de-empahsized as being too preposterous. If they had included giant aircraft carriers built of ice and sawdust battling it out in the arctic with cruise missiles and jet aircraft while Hitler thrust the Spear of Destiny at the sky, it would have been just too over the top.

Overall it was a pretty good show, really
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  #259  
Old 04-03-2012, 12:28 PM
Malacandra Malacandra is offline
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They slipped the odd one in, though. This giant rocket-propelled wheel-bomb made a brief appearance in an episode or two, but it really belonged in a TV comedy.
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  #260  
Old 04-04-2012, 11:03 AM
straight man straight man is offline
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Originally Posted by Koxinga View Post
What if the story of WWII had been placed in the hands of a competent writer?
....What would it look like?

[B]Ernest Hemingway

<snipped>

With apologies to Fingolfin.
Competent writer, my ass. They let him help write the Italian part of World War One, and look at what a plotless, depressing, pointless snafu that became. I will never figure out how they managed to convince the producers to greenlight a sequel!
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  #261  
Old 04-04-2012, 11:37 AM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
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I see WWII as more of an epic bloody Marx Brothers film, with the Keystone Cops thrown in.
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  #262  
Old 04-04-2012, 11:46 AM
Gedd Gedd is offline
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Originally Posted by straight man View Post
Competent writer, my ass. They let him help write the Italian part of World War One, and look at what a plotless, depressing, pointless snafu that became. I will never figure out how they managed to convince the producers to greenlight a sequel!
I think I just realized why there is such a wide spectrum in the quality of the various plots, stories, and writing styles. There were a huge number of writers! (I should have known). They must have employed a large number of authors and let them each have a small part to write. They got a large amount of material, and then could pick and choose the parts they wanted.

It's obvious in hindsight. Some stories are comedies (see the previously mentioned Polish bear); some are dramas, some suspense, some action, etc. There are hundreds of characters, settings, and plots; most of which don't connect. They simply say it's a "global" (more so than WWI) conflict to explain it away.

Brilliant!
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  #263  
Old 04-04-2012, 11:53 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Well, I liked the series, all in all. It was actually pretty compelling at times. But there really are just waaaay too many cliches, coincidences and hackneyed bits.

So America goes from the Maine to the Lusitania to the Arizona? Enough with the dramatic ship losses pissing the public off enough to bring the U.S. into a war, OK?

So the Hitler dude has one of the best paratrooper forces in the world and he blows it all in capturing a single island? Please.

The Japanese and Germans were just too unbelievably evil. Beheading prisoners, working them to death, and encouraging civilians on Pacific islands to jump to their own deaths rather than be captured? Or building concentration camps and killing Jews on an industrial scale even though it hurt your war effort? Please. And why wouldn't the Allies have bombed the rail lines leading to the concentration camps? C'mon, it'd be win-win!

Then the top German scientists go off to work for the Americans at the end. The top rocket guy, who probably knew about Nazi slave labor, even builds the spacecraft for the handsome PT-boat naval hero's Moon program 20 years later! Yeah, sure.

And that wheelchair President guy is elected FOUR times?!?!?!? Yeah, like that's gonna happen.

Germany and Japan go from planned-economy military dictatorships who are the Americans' mortal enemies, to healthy market-economy democracies and trusted allies in, what, less than a decade? Yeesh. Some disbelief just can't be suspended, guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
And, of course, the leader of the blond Aryan race had dark hair. Why would anyone follow him if he didn't match the image?
Heh. One of my buddies joked, "For all that Nazi genetics crap, it seems to me most of the German actors are as blond as Hitler, as tall as Goebbels, and as thin as Goering!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus View Post
Did they actually think people would buy boarding parties in the 20th Century? The very idea that a modern naval commander would order "Away all boarders!" is insane. USS Pillsbury? Nice product placement, guys. Real subtle.
And then to have the leader of the Pillsbury boarding party die of a heart attack before he could get his Medal of Honor? And for the captured sub to end up in CHICAGO, of all places? Sheesh. Gimme a break.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_David
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-505

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levolor the Blind View Post
...Anyway, I remember reading some spin-off novels back in the seventies (the titles escape me). One was about an invisible American destroyer and the other about Germans going to the moon. Sci-fi, obviously, and very cheesey. Were these ever canon?....
Oh, man, there's been a lot of fanfic about this, if you look hard enough at garage sales and used-book stores. Writers seem especially drawn to the bad guys, for some reason, but none of it's canon, of course. Still, some of my favorites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-GB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_the_needle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eagle_Has_Landed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malden Capell View Post
I thought it was pretty tiresome during the London Blitz episode that the Germans miraculously never hit St. Paul's Cathedral, a big effing target in the middle of London and apparently a symbol of eventual victory for the Brits, despite dozens of opportunities. Surely they'd be able to zero in eventually?

Such a trope.
I know! And to have the King and the Queen refuse to leave the bombing zone? C'mon, man, you gotta protect your head of state! No way would the Brits let them stay in danger like that, esp. with two cute little princesses in the picture.

Last edited by Elendil's Heir; 04-04-2012 at 11:54 AM..
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  #264  
Old 04-09-2012, 07:40 PM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is online now
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Ok now I found evidence that George Lucas can time travel.

Remember how he put Boba Fett in Episode IV when he was not originally there?

I watched the fine BBC documentary on the making of WWI and darn it if they did not add the best villains of WWII in the prequel.

In the episode dealing with the battle of Verdun the Germans began to use tactics that finally worked against the trenches, special advance troops were trained to use new portable mortars, flame throwers, to zig zag among the trenches and not just go over the top and walk in line, the name the Germans gave to those specially trained soldiers that almost took Verdun like in a blitz?

Stormtroopers ..

Really George, who are you kidding?

Last edited by GIGObuster; 04-09-2012 at 07:42 PM..
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  #265  
Old 04-09-2012, 07:56 PM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
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And just like Woody Allen in Zellig, they inserted the actor who played Hitler into some of the old WWI trench scenes, and in the sequel Street Fighters of Weimar.
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  #266  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:10 AM
Love Rhombus Love Rhombus is offline
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And France? Everyone knows France is a pushover, but expecting us to believe that Germany just took them out of the game that quickly? I can see they tried to repair the plot hole by including the French "Resistance," but you can't have it both ways, writers!
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  #267  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:08 PM
nevadaexile nevadaexile is offline
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Some thoughts:

SUPER MAJOR PLOT HOLE

A nation, which disenfranchises a sizable portion of its own population by token of the fact that they are of a certain race, which isolates citizens in camps based solely upon the fact that they are of a certain ancestry and which generally treats its non-White citizens very shabbily, manages to frame the conflict as one of "good vs. evil."

Note: This nation is supposed to be the "good guy."

SUPER MAJOR PLOT HOLE

A nation which has a larger army, air force and a navy which isn't restricted by geography and that gets a SIX MONTH head start to prevent its own invasion, drops the ball and surrenders after six weeks of fighting. Worse, it does so with 500k worth of soldiers still in the southern part of its country and 600 aircraft which are completely undamaged. Worse yet, it makes it NO EFFORT to evacuate these soldiers and those airplanes to its nearby Northern African colonies to continue the war from there even it has means to do so.

Completely unbelievable: The majority of its naval fleet is never captured by the enemy and could have been to blockade, harass and otherwise take the fight to the nation which conquered their homeland…and yet does not even attempt this. This nation then has the temerity to complain when that naval fleet is severely damaged by an ally who grows tired of waiting for it to "sack up" and start fighting the war.

SUPER MAJOR PLOT HOLE

An island nation, which has few natural resources and which starts a war against a large nation never creates a viable anti-submarine warfare program even after it's made abundantly clear that its enemy is going to starve it out using unrestricted submarine warfare.

Bonus points:This same nation squanders its naval advantage on a useless series of engagements which it has no possible hope of winning.

Minor Plot Hole

Despite receiving significant military and economic aid which helps him win his own country's civil war prior to WWII, a national leader later stymies those same nations which helped achieve that victory. So much so in fact that those allies are forced to fight conflicts on their southern flanks which sap resources which could have been used elsewhere.

Bonus points: Although this same leader espouses many of the same political,social and racial views as the enemy nations which are defeated goes on to reign over his country ruthlessly for 30 years after the end of the war. And is later declared to be an ally by nations which despised and fought so determinedly against nations which held his views.

If you wrote this and tried to sell it, no one would believe it.
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  #268  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:56 PM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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I just want to know how that loathsome sequel The Korean War lasted three seasons.

And don't even get me started on TKW's "Gritty Reboot" The Vietnam War. That was even more unbelievable! The sheeple who watched that show for so long should be ashamed.
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  #269  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:09 PM
Ferret Herder Ferret Herder is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
And don't even get me started on TKW's "Gritty Reboot" The Vietnam War. That was even more unbelievable! The sheeple who watched that show for so long should be ashamed.
And what kind of ending was that, anyway? Sheesh.
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  #270  
Old 02-11-2014, 05:29 PM
Boulter's Canary Boulter's Canary is offline
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Originally Posted by Gedd View Post
And what's with that character who fought with a bow, arrows, and broadsword? Seriously? They might as well have had another using a phaser!
And that scene with the destroyer attacking a heavy cruiser? Implausible enough but then doing it again with an under-armed converted liner going up against two of them was completely over the top.
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