Game of Thrones Season 2 - OPEN SPOILERS Discussion Thread

[Raygun99]

Originally Posted by Reverse

Yes, it's an original addition. There were plenty of those in season one as well.

My guess is that everyone in the cast has asked to be able to slap him.

[Snarky_Kong]

Episode 2 is available online in the usual places (Salador San would know where to get it) and it's fantastic.

[drastic_quench]

Speaking of the bastards, was anyone else disappointing at what a non-factor Gendry turns out to be? The series is all about bloodlines and destiny, and here we have a son who apparently is the best of the once powerful king without any of his personal failings like whoring and drunkenness, he's an armorer, a tank of a boy, and does nothing of note for five books!

Does he even have his awesome bull helmet at this point? Last I remember one of the many dangerous men they come across took it. And he falls in with... someone. This season he and Arya will be fighting and sneaking for their lives, but I hope it's not as spineless and helpless as the books. Hot Pie can't die soon enough.

Seriously, will it be another five books before Martin has Gendry pick up a hammer and cave a knight's chest in?

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by drastic_quench

Speaking of the bastards, was anyone else disappointing at what a non-factor Gendry turns out to be? The series is all about bloodlines and destiny, and here we have a son who apparently is the best of the once powerful king without any of his personal failings like whoring and drunkenness, he's an armorer, a tank of a boy, and does nothing of note for five books!

Does he even have his awesome bull helmet at this point? Last I remember one of the many dangerous men they come across took it. And he falls in with... someone. This season he and Arya will be fighting and sneaking for their lives, but I hope it's not as spineless and helpless as the books. Hot Pie can't die soon enough.

Seriously, will it be another five books before Martin has Gendry pick up a hammer and cave a knight's chest in?

Nope, not at all. This is Asoiaf, and Martin subverts 5 fantasy tropes before breakfast. That nothing comes (or has come yet) of Gendry is great.

He's armoring for the Brotherhood Without Banners last we saw him, btw.

[drastic_quench]

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

Nope, not at all. This is Asoiaf, and Martin subverts 5 fantasy tropes before breakfast. That nothing comes (or has come yet) of Gendry is great.

He's armoring for the Brotherhood Without Banners last we saw him, btw.

Sure, but I don't count it as subverting when one is set up, and then just left to rot. Kill him? Sure. Have him fail, or turn traitorous, or anything. Just do something. Otherwise there's no point.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by drastic_quench

Sure, but I don't count it as subverting when one is set up, and then just left to rot. Kill him? Sure. Have him fail, or turn traitorous, or anything. Just do something. Otherwise there's no point.

Ok, so he sets it up so that you feel like he's following the standard genre formula, then he doesn't, and that's not subverting it? Well, ok.

[drastic_quench]

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

Ok, so he sets it up so that you feel like he's following the standard genre formula, then he doesn't, and that's not subverting it? Well, ok.

No, come on. I'm cool with killing Ned and every other dodge and subversion, but that's because something happens with each. Plot twists, with the emphasis on plot.

Here's a graph of Gendry's character and story arc:


------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing happens. All I ask is that something happen. I don't care what.

[Snarky_Kong]

He kills Biter. Does that count?

[TruCelt]

My prediction for Gendry is that he finds the secret to making Valyrian steel (and that it involves combining it with volcanic glass under the extreme heat of dragon fire.). I'm part way through DwD, so there may be more info I don't have yet. But I'm betting he finds the way, and it's integral to human survival of the coming Winter.

[Annie]

Dragon fire forging? That can't be easy: "Here Drogon, that's a good boy, now just snort over this ore-VMWOOMP!" Blacksmith flambe.

[Mr. Excellent]

One thing I'm not looking forward to seeing in the HBO series: Arya's further kills. One of the great things Martin did in the first book, and that the series did, was to make you genuinely *like* Arya. She's a neat, goofy little kid - and your heart kind of breaks every time you read her praying for deaths or contemplating a stabbing or actually killing some poor bastard.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

One thing I'm not looking forward to seeing in the HBO series: Arya's further kills. One of the great things Martin did in the first book, and that the series did, was to make you genuinely *like* Arya. She's a neat, goofy little kid - and your heart kind of breaks every time you read her praying for deaths or contemplating a stabbing or actually killing some poor bastard.

Is there gold in the village?

[Mr. Excellent]

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

Is there gold in the village?

Damnit, man, you just sprayed some dust in my eye.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

Damnit, man, you just sprayed some dust in my eye.

Everything I've heard would point to that scene being in season 4, so you've got a while. The Tickler has been cast though.

Has anyone else watched the second episode yet?

[DigitalC]

No way am i going 2 weeks without a new episode. I tried that last season when HBO released an episode early and it sucked balls.

[gladtobeblazed]

Yeah, I watched the second episode and kind of wish I hadn't. I couldn't help myself though, now I have to wait again. I did like the second ep more than the premier, the pacing was better.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by gladtobeblazed

Yeah, I watched the second episode and kind of wish I hadn't. I couldn't help myself though, now I have to wait again. I did like the second ep more than the premier, the pacing was better.

It's in my top 2 or 3 so far.

[DrDeth]

What's funny is that this thread is actually pretty damn spoiler-free. Oh sure, there's some hints and stuff, but the few dudes who have not read the books but only watch the show will find almost nothing here to actually ruin it for them.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

What's funny is that this thread is actually pretty damn spoiler-free. Oh sure, there's some hints and stuff, but the few dudes who have not read the books but only watch the show will find almost nothing here to actually ruin it for them.

I'm avoiding mentioning what happens in the second episode. Trying to guess what's coming up is fun.

What's everyone most looking forward to this season?

Me? Fucking shadow babies and Weasel soup. I'm trying not to get hyped about Blackwater since it's impossible to do the book justice there. I'm pretty sure they're going to end the season on the Fist of the First Men, which has potential to be epic.

[gladtobeblazed]

I'm looking forward to the sack of Winterfell. That should be good double-crossing fun. I hope they don't delay it until the third season, but since they haven't cast either the Reeds or the Bastard, I'm not sure if it's going to be included.

[Drain Bead]

I'm really curious to see how they handle the House of the Undying.

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by Drain Bead

I'm really curious to see how they handle the House of the Undying.

Well, since to me it looks like in about 1/3 the scenes they just turn off the lights anyway, to save on film, it should be easy.

[Minnie Luna]

I am looking forward to seeing Theon Greyjoy's storyline.

[Cowboy8467]

Originally Posted by Minnie Luna

I am looking forward to seeing Theon Greyjoy's storyline.

People are going to start hating him really soon.

[drastic_quench]

I think Yara was miss-cast. She should be bigger and tougher. She looks tougher than Sansa, and that's about it. I was also disappointed that the Iron Islanders' aesthetic is closer to pirate than Viking.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by Cowboy8467

People are going to start hating him really soon.

And then, if we get that far, feel very sorry for him. Theon was the best part of Dance.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

And then, if we get that far, feel very sorry for him. Theon was the best part of Dance.

This is where I am now, in the book. I don't remember much of Theon from the earlier books, but whatever he did, he doesn't deserve this. Damn.

[drastic_quench]

Did the show write out Stannis's greyscale-stricken daughter and her fool? Melisandra's speech would have me believe so. Good riddance.

[Hellestal]

Originally Posted by drastic_quench

Did the show write out Stannis's greyscale-stricken daughter and her fool? Melisandra's speech would have me believe so. Good riddance.

I don't know, I don't know
Oh, oh, oh

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by drastic_quench

Did the show write out Stannis's greyscale-stricken daughter and her fool? Melisandra's speech would have me believe so. Good riddance.

Did this confirm or change your opinion on Stannis and Melisandre's relationship? I've heard some nerd rage akin to what we heard after Loras-Renly.

[Mr. Excellent]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

This is where I am now, in the book. I don't remember much of Theon from the earlier books, but whatever he did, he doesn't deserve this. Damn.

Just starts on A Feast of Crows, so perhaps I'll agree with you after I finish Dance - but right now, that would require a pretty horrible end for Theon. I mean, it's not like his seizure of Winterfell was exactly bloodless, you know? He killed a lot of innocent people he grew up with.

[Mr. Excellent]

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

Did this confirm or change your opinion on Stannis and Melisandre's relationship? I've heard some nerd rage akin to what we heard after Loras-Renly.

I thought it was pretty much explicit that Stannis and Melisandre had slept together at least a few times? I mean, that's how one makes shadow-babies - and we know that because Mel (can we call her Mel) wanted Stannis to sleep with her so that she could make more, and feared that doing this with Stannis might kill him. I guess it's ambiguous whether there's actually an ongoing romantic relationship, but they've clearly made the dragon with two backs.

[drastic_quench]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

I thought it was pretty much explicit that Stannis and Melisandre had slept together at least a few times? I mean, that's how one makes shadow-babies - and we know that because Mel (can we call her Mel) wanted Stannis to sleep with her so that she could make more, and feared that doing this with Stannis might kill him. I guess it's ambiguous whether there's actually an ongoing romantic relationship, but they've clearly made the dragon with two backs.

Yeah. Plus the TV way makes for a better story. This makes more sense than the book where Stannis's wife is one the take with the religion and he just sort of acquiesces. Plus no damnable fool.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

but right now, that would require a pretty horrible end for Theon.

This makes me smile.

I mean, it's not like his seizure of Winterfell was exactly bloodless, you know? He killed a lot of innocent people he grew up with.

I think a lot of this can be explained away. I mean, he was a hostage, and it's war. There's a lot of emotional attachment to the Starks that taints that view. That being said, he either kills or orders the death of two children. I think there was a rape too... Ok, so yeah that's pretty bad. Nevermind.

[drastic_quench]

There's a rumor that the Reeds won't be in the show either. Can't say they'll be missed. The girl, Meera, was fine but I had to skim every time Jojen spouted his boring lines.

[DigitalC]

It makes more sense than the wilding (osha is gonna replace them apparently) would be the one leading them past the wall i guess, the Reeds were a connection to Howland Reed and all the tower of joy stuff was dropped already so they seem to be completely unnecessary.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by DigitalC

It makes more sense than the wilding (osha is gonna replace them apparently) would be the one leading them past the wall i guess, the Reeds were a connection to Howland Reed and all the tower of joy stuff was dropped already so they seem to be completely unnecessary.

I guess that depends on what they're going to do with Rickon. If something big happens with him/Davos on Skagos, then they're going to need someone to take him there while Osha goes north of the Wall.

[Reverse]

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

I guess that depends on what they're going to do with Rickon. If something big happens with him/Davos on Skagos, then they're going to need someone to take him there while Osha goes north of the Wall.

Rumor is that Maester Luwin might survive the sacking of Winterfell and go with Rickon.

[DigitalC]

That... would kinda suck. That everyone at Winterfall died was a pretty important part of the books i thought, nobody is supposed to know what really happened there besides Theon and Ramsay.

[Reverse]

Originally Posted by DigitalC

That... would kinda suck. That everyone at Winterfall died was a pretty important part of the books i thought, nobody is supposed to know what really happened there besides Theon and Ramsay.

Well, the survivors know.

[TruCelt]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

Just starts on A Feast of Crows, so perhaps I'll agree with you after I finish Dance - but right now, that would require a pretty horrible end for Theon. I mean, it's not like his seizure of Winterfell was exactly bloodless, you know? He killed a lot of innocent people he grew up with.

I guarantee you will look back on this post with horror. You will come back to assure us that Jebus Cripeney, you didn't mean all that.

[drastic_quench]

You guys are in agreement that Martin directly implied that Theon's dick was either cut off or flayed, right? I was on another message board that was very ambivalent on the subject.

Fucking Boltons... and I thought Michael was as bad as they come.

I do hope the show portrays Theon's gradual descent into being both a captive of his own troops and his slide into betrayal. It was VERY reminiscent of Jake Spoon from Lonesome Dove.

[DigitalC]

It was certainly hinted at but i am not 100% confident it was true.

[TruCelt]

Originally Posted by drastic_quench

You guys are in agreement that Martin directly implied that Theon's dick was either cut off or flayed, right? I was on another message board that was very ambivalent on the subject.

. . .

I just read that early this morning. Yeah, I can't imagine what else it could refer to. I'ma girl and I stil crossed my legs when I read it.

I'll spoiler this - don't look if you're not there yet.

SPOILER:

"Lord Ramsay treats his captives honorably so long as they keep faith with him" He has only taken toes and fingers and that other thing, when he might have had my tongue, or peeled the skin off my legs from heel to thigh. "Yield up your swords to him and you will live."

I'd be interested to hear what other explanations people have? Is it like, the metaphysical "self" ?

[DigitalC]

It wasn't just that, the wedding night scene also implied it.

[AuntiePam]

I'm in a Reek chapter now too. Loss of "the other thing" might explain why he refuses a bath, when Roose Bolton rescues him (at least I'm hoping it's a rescue, even if it's only temporary). Man's still got some pride, whether or not he realizes it.

[DigitalC]

Davos an atheist? not quite sure i like that.

[drastic_quench]

Isn't "Stannis is my god' from the books? It felt like it was from the books, regardless.

Salladohor Saan, when he said "Salladohor Saan is good name for songs," reminded me of Samir Nagheenanajar from Office Space. Same delivery.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by drastic_quench

Isn't "Stannis is my god' from the books? It felt like it was from the books, regardless.

Salladohor Saan, when he said "Salladohor Saan is good name for songs," reminded me of Samir Nagheenanajar from Office Space. Same delivery.

It's from the books, but Davos says it to Salladhor. Speaking of Salladhor, I thought he was great.

This episode is getting extra nerdrage that I don't really understand.

[DigitalC]

It is from the books, but Davos was also a devout follower of the seven.