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  #1451  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:36 PM
Gadarene Gadarene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHaye View Post
That took a while, and I still need to read from 1101 again.

My votecount has Astral at 6 votes, Gadarene, Normal Phase, and Weedy at 2, Choie, Believerer, myself, Scathach and Suburban Plankton at 1.

Weedy's vote remains on me, in case anyone's wondering.
I'll remind you that there is not only a triple voter, but also two separate secret-voting players. If they all gang up, they could push Gad or I (say) - anyone with two votes - into the lynch lead.

[color=blue]Vote Astral Rejection[/c].

That's one part self-preservation, two parts suspicion from Yesterday, one part "who did that triple vote actually save, Gad or AR?" and one part Normal's critique of that farewell post found in post 1037.
Pretty sure I have the same stupid three votes on me that I've had most of the day.
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  #1452  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:37 PM
Gadarene Gadarene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton View Post
I never once claimed that you were lying about your correspondent. I said you were lying about knowing fubbleskag's Special Third Party Win Condition.

"Lynch the Loud" came from the fact that you're voting for me, in part, because "you're around and they're not".

And how can you not see your point (3) as snuggling?



I really wish we had something else to talk about Today, but it seems most of the Town are content to listen to us squabble...at least I'm enjoying myself with it; I hope you are too.
Can you even read?

I'm not voting you because you're around and they're not. I'm complaining to you about your vote being on me because you're around and they're not.

Stop misrepresenting what I'm saying, please...or at least take the sentences a little slower so you don't miss their meaning.
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  #1453  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:41 PM
MHaye MHaye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
Pretty sure I have the same stupid three votes on me that I've had most of the day.
I'm sure it's 2.

What I have for you.
Suburban Plankton : +813
Visorslash : +824 -1,194
fubbleskag : +967
Visorslash : +1,200 -1,203
Mhaye : +1,281 -1,284
Who have I missed?

Last edited by MHaye; 04-16-2012 at 03:41 PM..
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  #1454  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:44 PM
Suburban Plankton Suburban Plankton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHaye View Post

That's one part self-preservation, two parts suspicion from Yesterday, one part "who did that triple vote actually save, Gad or AR?" and one part Normal's critique of that farewell post found in post 1037.
First choie said it, and now you've repeated it: that the triple vote yesterday might have been meant to save Astral. How is that?

The 'final' vote count (before the triple-vote and the two hidden votes) had Gadarene as the lynch, one vote ahead of Astral.

The only way the triple vote could have been to save Astral would have been if the triple voter a) knew that there were two hidden votes, and b) thought they were both going to be placed on Astral. That would have put Astral in the lead by a single vote, and he would have required 'rescuing'. Of course, neither of the hidden votes was placed on Astral, so he was never actually in any last-minute danger at all.

If I'm missing something, someone please point it out.
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  #1455  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:45 PM
Gadarene Gadarene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHaye View Post
I'm sure it's 2.

What I have for you.
Suburban Plankton : +813
Visorslash : +824 -1,194
fubbleskag : +967
Visorslash : +1,200 -1,203
Mhaye : +1,281 -1,284
Who have I missed?
PetW is voting me, as far as I know.
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  #1456  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:49 PM
Suburban Plankton Suburban Plankton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
Can you even read?

I'm not voting you because you're around and they're not. I'm complaining to you about your vote being on me because you're around and they're not.

Stop misrepresenting what I'm saying, please...or at least take the sentences a little slower so you don't miss their meaning.
My apologies. I did conflate "why do you think my vote on you is so bad" (which I did ask) with "why are you voting for me" (which I did not ask).

Although, I suspect the two are pretty heavily tied together, are they not?

In fact, what have I done that makes you think I'm Scum other than 'not move my vote off of you'?
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  #1457  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:50 PM
Weedy Weedy is offline
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unvote
unvote

Vote Astral Rejection

Forgot to do this before I went to bed last night. I know people will hate the last minute vote change, but I've been asleep for the last 7 hours.
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  #1458  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:51 PM
MHaye MHaye is offline
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Let's be paranoid.

Unvote


Vote Astral Rejection.

Just in case OGGH decides not to count my vote because it's in a quote box.
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  #1459  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:51 PM
Gadarene Gadarene is offline
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Unvote Suburban Plankton

[color]Vote Weedy[/color]

This is not your village game so far.
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  #1460  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:52 PM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Well, at least we came to a consensus.
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  #1461  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:52 PM
Gadarene Gadarene is offline
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Vote Weedy

sigh
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  #1462  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:53 PM
Suburban Plankton Suburban Plankton is offline
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Does anyone recall the tiebreaker rules for this game? I could have sworn they were the standard "first person to reach the tied number of votes is lynched", but I can't seem to find that in the rules now.

Also, I wonder how the 'hidden votes' are counted. Assuming they are the result of players with a 'double-voting' ability, would they take effect for vote-counting purposes at the End of Day, or as of the post in which the person publicly voted?

Pizza, in case you see this in the next 7 minutes, can you answer the question posed in the paragraph above?
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  #1463  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:54 PM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Remember:

1) Normal Phase
2) MHaye
3) realitytrip & lilflower
4) LightFoot

Those are my scum reads in order from strongest to weakest. My feel on LightFoot is just a gut feeling.
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  #1464  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:56 PM
Gadarene Gadarene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton View Post
My apologies. I did conflate "why do you think my vote on you is so bad" (which I did ask) with "why are you voting for me" (which I did not ask).

Although, I suspect the two are pretty heavily tied together, are they not?

In fact, what have I done that makes you think I'm Scum other than 'not move my vote off of you'?
Utterly fail to give a credible explanation of why your vote is still on me, for one. I also commented on your overall participation and engagement level earlier; it doesn't at all seem reminiscent of the games I've played with you when you've been Town.
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  #1465  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:56 PM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHaye View Post
OGGH decides not to count my vote because it's in a quote box.
Our Grand Game Host?

By the way: Pizza, can you please confirm receipt of my PM to you? I sent it twice.
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  #1466  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:57 PM
Weedy Weedy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
Unvote Suburban Plankton

[color]Vote Weedy[/color]

This is not your village game so far.
It's not a very good village game, I agree, but I'm a villager, so it must be my village game :P.
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  #1467  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:57 PM
Gadarene Gadarene is offline
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realitytrip and lilflower deserve more scrutiny toMorrow

as does Believerer

as does storyteller

as does NAF1138
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  #1468  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:59 PM
MHaye MHaye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton View Post
First choie said it, and now you've repeated it: that the triple vote yesterday might have been meant to save Astral. How is that?

The 'final' vote count (before the triple-vote and the two hidden votes) had Gadarene as the lynch, one vote ahead of Astral.

The only way the triple vote could have been to save Astral would have been if the triple voter a) knew that there were two hidden votes, and b) thought they were both going to be placed on Astral. That would have put Astral in the lead by a single vote, and he would have required 'rescuing'. Of course, neither of the hidden votes was placed on Astral, so he was never actually in any last-minute danger at all.

If I'm missing something, someone please point it out.
How do you know when the order to place those votes was PMd to ATPG, exactly?

The player who instructed the votes may have been hedging against a collapse of Gadarene's vote, while not wanting to pile on Astral.

Mafia do some funny things sometimes. They're capable of overthinking issues and making horrible mistakes. Look up Fluiddruid's "Mob is Recruiting" game, in which the Mafia player killed instead of recruiting Night 1, because he thought confusing everyone was better. Then gave himself away at Dusk on Day 2 - by gloating.
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  #1469  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:59 PM
GuiriEnEspaña GuiriEnEspaña is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal Phase View Post
@ Gadarene -- yes, Astral DOES defend himself very strongly when mafia. He was mafia in his very first game here and impressed the hell out of a lot of people.
QFT

:Bites nails...
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  #1470  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:00 PM
MHaye MHaye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral Rejection View Post
Our Grand Game Host?

By the way: Pizza, can you please confirm receipt of my PM to you? I sent it twice.
Our Glorious Game Host.

Close enough.
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  #1471  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:02 PM
Suburban Plankton Suburban Plankton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
Utterly fail to give a credible explanation of why your vote is still on me, for one. I also commented on your overall participation and engagement level earlier; it doesn't at all seem reminiscent of the games I've played with you when you've been Town.
I think we have a fundamental disagreement about the 'credibility' of my vote on you; one which I fear will not be settled any time soon.

As for my participation, it has been a bit less than 'normal' for me. I'm pretty sure 'light participation' is not in fact a Scum tell for me; I tend to stick my foot in my mouth just as often no matter which side I'm on. But perhaps I'm not the best judge of that. I guess we'll find out, wont we?

And with that, I do believe Night has fallen...
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  #1472  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:03 PM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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I'm currently Schrodinger's Mafia player, neither alive nor dead!
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  #1473  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:06 PM
Gadarene Gadarene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuiriEnEspaña View Post
QFT

:Bites nails...
Hey, Guiri: who are your top Town leans?
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  #1474  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:09 PM
choie choie is offline
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The suckiest part is that IIRC the five extra votes were placed invisibly, and were only seen by us when pizzaguy wrote his Dusk narrative post. So really, we have no real idea what the scores are. Those five unaccounted-for votes could easily push anyone ahead of Astral.

Sorry, I know this is probably obvious and has already been stated, I'm just thinking as I type out of nervousness. Also because I unfortunately have been distracted for the past two hours by an annoying real life mystery involving a gift basket and a disappearing flower shop.
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  #1475  
Old 04-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Hey, board is back up! Let's see if I'm dead.
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  #1476  
Old 04-16-2012, 10:03 PM
BobArrgh BobArrgh is offline
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Wow, the Board was down for quite a while.
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  #1477  
Old 04-16-2012, 10:40 PM
Suburban Plankton Suburban Plankton is offline
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I had all of the following composed and ready to post when the board took its dive earlier this afternoon...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MHaye View Post
How do you know when the order to place those votes was PMd to ATPG, exactly?

The player who instructed the votes may have been hedging against a collapse of Gadarene's vote, while not wanting to pile on Astral.

Mafia do some funny things sometimes. They're capable of overthinking issues and making horrible mistakes. Look up Fluiddruid's "Mob is Recruiting" game, in which the Mafia player killed instead of recruiting Night 1, because he thought confusing everyone was better. Then gave himself away at Dusk on Day 2 - by gloating.
I don't know when the order to place those votes was sent, though I assume that it was "just before the end of the Day". I base this assumption on the fact that Today it seems the votes were posted to the thread "as they happened". If they had been sent earlier in the Day, then I expect they would have appeared earlier in the Day.

Again, this is what I believe now, based upon the way Today's triple-votes appeared in the game thread. Last Night when they first showed up, I thought they were 'extra votes' that were added on at end of Day.

Another factor that indicated the votes were sent in at the last minute is this from Pizza:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
The order to place the following votes was done before the 5pm deadline, for the record.
He explicitly stated that the votes were done "before the deadline". If they were simply 'extra votes' as a result of a Power, then I don't think there would have been any need to tell us that, just as he didn't tell us anything about the 'extra' votes on Mosier and Gadarene.

I think it's clear that whoever placed those three votes did it at the last minute, which implies it was not done as an effort to save Astral, since he was in no danger at that time.


On preview, having typed all of the above, I do notice that Astral and Gad were tied up until Post 352, which was only 10 minutes before EoD. Since we don't know whether or not Pizza was online at or near EoD, it is possible that the triple vote came in at, say, 15 minutes before EoD, in which case it could have been intended to save Astral...but in that case, why Mosier and why not Gadarene?
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  #1478  
Old 04-16-2012, 10:55 PM
choie choie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton View Post
On preview, having typed all of the above, I do notice that Astral and Gad were tied up until Post 352, which was only 10 minutes before EoD. Since we don't know whether or not Pizza was online at or near EoD, it is possible that the triple vote came in at, say, 15 minutes before EoD, in which case it could have been intended to save Astral...but in that case, why Mosier and why not Gadarene?
You know, in all my guesses about the possible motives of this triple-voter, one didn't occur to me until you just wrote this.

We've been ascribing negative motives for this upset vote. But -- as fond as we all are of assuming the worst about our fellow players, Gadarene does correctly make the point that most of us are Town. (Um, presumably. Again, I know there's no accounting for what may happen in this game -- forget it, Jake; it's PizzaTown.) But what if for once someone's motives were relatively pure, and this triple voter genuinely thought Mosier scummier than Astral or Gadarene? They were wrong, obviously, but that doesn't make them scummy by default. Most of us have voted incorrectly at some point.

Is this crazy talk? We're all paranoid but maybe Occam's Razor is at work here: maybe, like most of us Townies, the triple-voter just placed his/her votes on the person they thought was scum.

It's kind of an idealistic way to look at it, but why not contemplate the most innocent reason for the vote for a little while?
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  #1479  
Old 04-16-2012, 10:58 PM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Be honest, guys. How much is killing you to still not know if you were right or wrong about me?
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  #1480  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:46 PM
choie choie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral Rejection View Post
Be honest, guys. How much is killing you to still not know if you were right or wrong about me?
Dang, Astral. I didn't even vote for you but you're sounding scummier in this limbo / purgatorial state than you ever did in the game proper!

I seem to recall it took about five hours for pizzaguy to tally everything. Considering we were down for about five hours and assuming he was only just able to start when the board returned... I'd say this is gonna be a long night.
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  #1481  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:48 PM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Originally Posted by choie View Post
Dang, Astral. I didn't even vote for you but you're sounding scummier in this limbo / purgatorial state than you ever did in the game proper!
Meh. I'm allowed to have fun when I'm (going to be) dead. That question was meant entirely earnestly, and was a play on the boards being down.

You folks read entirely too much into jokes.
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  #1482  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:52 PM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is online now
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Jokes, hell. We read too much into words. Ask one of the oldtimers to tell you the story of the debacle Debacle.
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  #1483  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:55 PM
choie choie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral Rejection View Post
You folks read entirely too much into jokes.
Right back atcha!
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  #1484  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:02 AM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
Jokes, hell. We read too much into words. Ask one of the oldtimers to tell you the story of the debacle Debacle.
Hey Inner, would you tell me about the debacle Debacle?
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  #1485  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:03 AM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Originally Posted by choie View Post
Right back atcha!
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  #1486  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:13 AM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral Rejection View Post
Hey Inner, would you tell me about the debacle Debacle?
Hardy har har. It was before my time and the mafia wiki is down so I can't refresh my memory. IIRC correctly dotchan used the word debacle to describe the results of a lynch and got mislynched for it.
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  #1487  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:14 AM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
Hardy har har. It was before my time and the mafia wiki is down so I can't refresh my memory. IIRC correctly dotchan used the word debacle to describe the results of a lynch and got mislynched for it.
I imagine "scum gloating" got bandied about?
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  #1488  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:34 AM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is online now
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Something to that effect.
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  #1489  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:34 AM
Askthepizzaguy Askthepizzaguy is offline
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Well, that was a nasty outage.

It took so long to bring the site back up that I took an involuntary nap.

My schedule's a bit thrown off because I need to access the site in order to do my host-related duties of reading instructions and carrying them out, tallying and whatnot.

Long story short, sit tight, this isn't going to be ready until morning sometime.
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  #1490  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:35 AM
Askthepizzaguy Askthepizzaguy is offline
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That said, we're not in a rush because both day and night are being stretched so we can get onto a Monday-Thursday Day schedule and a Friday-Sunday Night schedule.
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  #1491  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:36 AM
Astral Rejection Astral Rejection is offline
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Did you get my PM?
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  #1492  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:39 AM
Askthepizzaguy Askthepizzaguy is offline
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Yes, Astral.
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  #1493  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:17 AM
Silver Jan Silver Jan is offline
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It's a good thing I did go to bed last night, I could have been sitting here with match sticks holding my eyelids open instead of being nicely refreshed and wide awake and still no results.
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  #1494  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:59 AM
septimus septimus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral Rejection View Post
I'm currently Schrodinger's Mafia player, neither alive nor dead!
There's a current SDMB thread about "Quantum Immortality" in the many-worlds interpretation of modern physics. You're living in some worlds, dead in others but ... cheer up! ... You're only aware of the worlds wherein you survived.

But frankly, I still think my link in the set-up thread to Tease and Denial is more apropos.
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  #1495  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:59 AM
Askthepizzaguy Askthepizzaguy is offline
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Also confirming that Bright House is having massive problems locally in my area. Estimate until 6am local time for the problem to be resolved.

Haven't been able to load more than a page or two for the past couple hours.

Sorry folks. Technical issues.
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  #1496  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:07 AM
Silver Jan Silver Jan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
Also confirming that Bright House is having massive problems locally in my area. Estimate until 6am local time for the problem to be resolved.

Haven't been able to load more than a page or two for the past couple hours.

Sorry folks. Technical issues.

Doesn't Bright House realise that this is a matter of life or death
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  #1497  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:12 AM
Askthepizzaguy Askthepizzaguy is offline
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I know! I totally can't access my much-needed elf-on-dwarf porn. *sobs uncontrollably*
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  #1498  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:23 AM
GuiriEnEspaña GuiriEnEspaña is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuiriEnEspaña View Post
:Bites nails...
Lucky I stopped...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
Hey, Guiri: who are your top Town leans?
I'd rather not say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
I know! I totally can't access my much-needed elf-on-dwarf porn. *sobs uncontrollably*
Can't you get that on HBO? New season started recently.
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  #1499  
Old 04-17-2012, 07:28 AM
Normal Phase Normal Phase is offline
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I have the sudden uncomfortable feeling that I have a target on my butt. Amazing how easy it is to forget about that in the heat of battle.
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  #1500  
Old 04-17-2012, 07:31 AM
Weedy Weedy is offline
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Normal was worried about the PetW wagon and I don't know why, so I went and had a look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetW View Post
So far the scum have managed to kill 3 of us, and we haven't lynched a single person yet. We have a 0% chance of finding scum if we continue this way. I propose the following strategy:
1. Vote as normal.
2. Tally votes by the beginning of the last (lowercase) dayparking before nightfall.
3. Agree as a group to place all of our votes on the leader, regardless of personal belief, to create a strong enough majority to ensure a real lynch and prevent a repeat of Day 1.
We need to get organized.

Vote Gadarene : I wasn't on this bandwagon until I saw his "go get 'ema Town" goodbye. Now he claims to notthe be vanilla, coyly brags about this secret information he has from unnamed sources, yet scum didn't bother targetting him. My #1last scum suspect for now.

Fubbleskag is my #2, and that's purely because I think anyone whose primary (and secondary and tertiary, apparently) goals are greed, must not be up to any good. I'm afraid of what he may be rewarded with when he acquires too much wealth. To simply have some merchant-type class who simply wins by collecting X amount of gold seems a little pointless and trite to me. I have a feeling Askthepizzaguy has a twist in there somewhere.

Visorslash is now my #3. I realize it's in his character to be boastful and abrasive, but I think the degree to which he's done so is scummy. Also, as I mentioned earlier, his tone seemed to turn in the sign up threads right around the time PMs came out.
This is the post that Normal Phase hated so much.

I think there is a ton of terrible logic in this post, as Normal points out later. It doesn't really ping me as Scummy, because terrible logic is not solely a Scum trait. Sometimes Scum try to weasel their way into or out of a vote, and you get bad logic then, but there is nothing weaselly about this. It's very direct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal Phase View Post
Excuse me while I say "BAH".

unvote, vote PetW

I may switch back to MHaye or even elsewhere, but this deserves formal recognition. On my way out, back in a bit.
First vote on PetW

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetW View Post
Speaking of which, care to elaborate on your vote, and my proposed strategy?
PetW not fazed at all.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal Phase View Post
OK, this post.



The first ping is this bit. It's wee-wee disease. Simultaneous criticism of how badly "we" are doing, with rah-rah about what "we" should do. I'm not sure how to put this in terms that anyone else would understand. It's Pizza-original scum-hunting and it resonates with me, but I've never been able to explain it well. All I can say is that that top bit pings like hell.



"Come on town, we gotta get with it!" combination cheerleading and criticizing again. Argh. Anyway, I'd rather see the same goal (large lynch majority) aimed at in a less organized way. That way information can be obtained also by who's participating and who is not, and when, and how. I flat out DO NOT BELIEVE that Pizza would make it all but impossible for the town to lynch its preferred candidate without taking extreme measures, every single day of the game. (Now watch me be proven wrong. But right now I don't believe it.) So therefore I'm not all that enthused about awkward arrangements like this.



Why on earth would scum target him? They had Inner, who seemed roundly to be believed as probable town and who was also already damaged. And/or they had glee, about whom Bob was implying all sorts of interesting stuff. Hey Bob, by the way, care to shed any more light on that now? And gadarene was looking like lynch bait and/or vig target all night.

You've already seen my opinion about the "secret information" stuff.

Anyway, reasonable suspect, but very bad reasoning IMO, and this is a scum tell to me.



No doubt he does, but third parties and suspected third parties are always happy targets for scum, so this doesn't improve my opinion much.



I don't think I've ever seen Visorslash as scum, but the one time I saw him as a semi-malicious third party he was transparent as a pane of glass. Though he might be capable of better, at this point I don't particularly think he's scum, and this vote is just such a reach in terms of reasoning. You really think he's going to get a scum PM and then immediately lay in the "I'm going to kill you all" stuff? Why? For the lulz? I guess, but why on earth you should think that's actually what he's doing is beyond me.

You have three super-easy candidates as your three top choices; your reasoning on them is suspect; your helpful suggestion is IMO probably unnecessary and not really much of a negative for scum even if it isn't; and you have that weird cheer-leading/criticizing/"come on guys "we" need to do better" tone that always gets to me.

Hence the vote.
Pretty solid vote from Normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
Vote PetW

Oh my God, he sucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post


(But I do like Normal's case, and I've been expressing my dislike for PetW's reasoning for a while now.)
Kind of a ' me, too' + OMGUS vote, but I have a bit of a Town lean on Gad, and I can see him making this vote as Town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie View Post
assuming the three kills were by scum because the Demon Lord killed them all or PIS slip? let's put more pressure.

Vote: PetW
I already said that I hate this vote. He gives a perfectly logical reason why someone would think all the kills were from Scum, and then goes for a PIS accusation. After I said that charlie spazzed at me in a way I saw him do before as Town, so I'm holding neutral on this now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetW View Post
I'm assuming they were scum because 1. Only Town were killed and 2. A townie was killed in a fashion that still keeps the top 2 lynch candidates under suspicion.
If the top 2 lynch candidates are spared and a relatively innocuous townie is killed, that seems pretty indicative of scum. It is possible, of course, that the extra votes were townie, but I doubt it.
Guiri says over-confident. Hmm, maybe. I don't think so though, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Jan View Post
This post doesn't sit well with me at all. What a fantastic way for scum to slip by unnoticed. No, I do not like this idea one little bit. If the vote leader is only leading by one vote and then everyone changes their vote that particular person, what info do we get the next Day. All the excuses would be "well we agreed to do it".

Vote PetW

I could never vote for anyone I thought was Town, it just goes against the grain.
Silver Jan with a villagery sounding vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal Phase View Post
That's a lot of votes on PetW for this early in the day and I don't want MHaye to think I don't like him anymore.

unvote, vote MHaye
Normal Phase doesn't like the speed at which the wagon took off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Skeezix View Post
I don't like this post. It just screams scum to me. Lets all do the same thing, lets all vote for the same person, lets all attack the mod. Also, its too easy a switch to direct attack on Gadarene.

vote: petw
This looks like it was posted while Red was catching up (it refers to a Night post), and he probably didn't know about the wagon. Not sure what about it screams Scum exactly, but a lot of people hated that post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Skeezix View Post
Probably sounds odd since I was responding to this: "At this point I'm doubtful it would be likely to get something that way. Why would a scum player lie?"

Alignment is often good enough.
I'm less forgiving of poor logic from an experienced player. Scum don't lie for no reason, as if being randed Scum turns someone into a compulsive liar all of a sudden.

There is a discussion through here between Normal Phase and Skeezix about whether or not it's a good idea to randomly attack people in the hope of working out their element. It seems obvious to me that this is not a good idea (because it will weaken Townies, and knowing people's elements is hardly crucial info). Scum points to Skeezix for pushing it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Skeezix View Post
Bite me.

Baseless accusations. I'm only scum about 80% of the time.

Also, the amount of times I've been scum in previous games has no bearing on whether or not I'm scum now. By your own admission, you have never played with me as town (no idea if this is true or not), so you lack a reference point. Why go down that road?

unvote: Petw
vote: Weedy
Red changes his vote, but is still suspicious of PetW. I think he is also not caught up, because he is responding to older posts. I'd be interested to see what he makes of PetW's later posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie View Post
okay, your post feels honest.

Unvote PetW.
Gnarly said he wanted to put pressure on PetW to see his reaction. I guess he liked it. That makes sense to me, because I liked it to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Jan View Post
Unvote PetW

On reading that this is only his second game I think he might just have been trying to be helpful and not really trying to boss Town around.

I want to have a good look at Astral, I have a FOS on him already but I want to have a more solid argument either for or against him.
This is the worst of the unvotes, to me. Like, everyone else did, so now I will too. But he didn't really address her concerns, so I think Jan could have left her vote there if she was Scum looking to park her vote.

That leaves Gadarene, who never really specifies that he changed his mind (I think he still has PetW as a scum lean, actually), but did some vote hopping around to try to start a second wagon.

The wagon seems fair to me, both in the way it formed, and the way it dissolved, so I'm still not sure why Normal is unhappy about it.


Some other things that stuck out to me when I was reading.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal Phase View Post
Bob, I believe it's possible to change your elemental alignment. Please look into the details -- assuming you can do it today with no negative side-effects it should protect you from a targeted attack on that basis.

Even though I think every one of your assumptions is likely to be incorrect, your explanation does ring true to me.
I believe that not everyone can change their elemental alignment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post
Hey everyone, just posting to say that I am right in the middle of preping my second final project for the semester and will be too busy to play for...probably the rest of the Day. I promise that I will be here for Day 3 and that I will be caught up and ready to play for a little while at least.

In the absence of a quality vote to put down I will vote to

abstain

I haven't read the thread at all since my last posting, and I am not going to put my name to a vote I don't have a feel for.
Gadarene, do you think an abstain vote is more Scummy than no vote at all? I kind of think you think it is, but I don't understand why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realitytrip View Post
Hmmm...a lot to think about here. At least for me. I know it's early in the day, but there has been a lot of focus on the items, which may or may not be valuable to most players (obviously if there is a 3rd party with the winning condition to have the most items, that is a different story to them). For my part, I am more than willing to give my vote(s) away to the people that lean town the most to me.

But I am concerned about the night actions, most of all. There was a lot going on. Visorslash and PetW were attacked by other players. PetW deflected his attack. So he was somehow protected....PetW, do you have a special item or do you think someone may have protected you?

Either way, that is at least two players with night attacks.

And then the two kills. One was in battle, which would seem to me to be like a normal scum night kill. The other was slain by magic. Could it be a vig kill, where the vig gains "control" of the demon lord for a night kill? Or a possible one shot extra kill? Town? PFK?

Thoughts? It would be nice as a collective town to come up with an idea of some of the powers floating around...
This might be nitty, but I think this is bad. As in, could be power role hunting, and even if it isn't meant that way, it could help Scum find them. Please don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
I don't understand the Weedy wagon.
Lol, that you went from here to voting for me. What makes you think this isn't my villager game?


And apparently I misunderstood something choie wrote, and red is indeed the proper color for unvotes. Though if BobArrgh can get that vote-counter working, it would be better to have them in blue.
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