What do I need to play Magic the Gathering with my kid?

[Chronos]

Now the upcoming Miracle cards will be another story.

More info, please?

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Chronos

More info, please?

The first time you draw a card each turn, if it's a Miracle card you can cast it as you draw it for a cheaper cost. It can't go to your hand first or else your opponent won't be able to tell if you switched it for another card.

Edit: here's an example.

[Cliffy]

Originally Posted by markdash

It's not as much that interrupts became "obsolete" as they just function with the same timing rules as other instants now.

The cards didn't become obsolete; the card type certainly did. I collapsed the distinction for efficiency's sake. (Which obv. didn't work as it yielded two additional posts!)

Originally Posted by Grumman

I don't agree with that. The two spells/zero spells mechanic for changing form is fine, but the use of double faced cards is awful. It necessitates too many kludges for what it's worth.

NO WAY. DFC's are awesome.

I'm not really disagreeing with you -- I mean, we disagree, obv., but as MaRo is fond of saying, every player isn't meant to love every card as long as there's something in the set for you. From what I can tell, on the whole the casual crowd -- which represents the substantial majority of packs purchased and a tiny minority of online discussion -- loves 'em.

BTW, if the OP is still watching now that we're in the weeds, MHaye mentions that basic lands are hard to come by at first. That's a good point -- but once you're up and running and interested in getting into a deeper experience, the Deckbuilder's Toolkit has a land pack IIRC. (As do "fat packs," a box with nine boosters.) Either of those, in addition to the lands that come in the intro packs or duel decks you get, should provide plenty of land when you're ready to build your own decks.

--Cliffy

[Trepa Mayfield]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Oh, yeah, I wasn't actually disagreeing with that: They are a nuisance. You can also add to the list, by the way, that they don't really work right in any of the tabletop-simulator computer games: I was considering adding the new Garruk to a deck in one of those, but decided against it partly due to the inconvenience of the two card faces.

Originally Posted by Quimby

If you play Magic using OCTGN 3, it handles the double faced cards just fine. Now the upcoming Miracle cards will be another story. Seems made for online cheating.

If you play on the official Magic Online website, there aren't any problems with implementation. Of course, then you have to pay real money for virtual cards...(and it's kind of a cutthroat environment).

Originally Posted by Cliffy

BTW, if the OP is still watching now that we're in the weeds, MHaye mentions that basic lands are hard to come by at first. That's a good point -- but once you're up and running and interested in getting into a deeper experience, the Deckbuilder's Toolkit has a land pack IIRC. (As do "fat packs," a box with nine boosters.) Either of those, in addition to the lands that come in the intro packs or duel decks you get, should provide plenty of land when you're ready to build your own decks.

That, and if there's a dedicated gaming store nearby, they'll usually sell lands for like 5 cents apiece depending.

[Chronos]

If you play on the official Magic Online website, there aren't any problems with implementation. Of course, then you have to pay real money for virtual cards...(and it's kind of a cutthroat environment).

The cynical part of me thinks that they're deliberately creating mechanics that don't work with the tabletop simulator programs, to try to force players into using the program they get money from. But hey, the inventors of the original cardboard crack wouldn't do something like that, would they?

[MaxTheVool]

Originally Posted by Chronos

The cynical part of me thinks that they're deliberately creating mechanics that don't work with the tabletop simulator programs, to try to force players into using the program they get money from. But hey, the inventors of the original cardboard crack wouldn't do something like that, would they?

That seems fairly comically over-cynical. Occam's razor... did WOTC introduce a new mechanic that does something new and different because:
(a) new and different things are what keep the game fresh and keep people playing, or
(b) the existence of software that lets people play magic for free is cutting so deeply into WOTC's profit that they've issued a company-wide mandate to come up with ways to interfere with that market, and the best they've been able to come up with is... something that requires the software to track which card was drawn first by each player each turn

[Lynn Bodoni]

That, and if there's a dedicated gaming store nearby, they'll usually sell lands for like 5 cents apiece depending.

Back when I was playing, my local game store used to give away ordinary lands to regular customers. A nickel apiece doesn't seem outrageous, though, if you really need the lands.

[Gedd]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

Back when I was playing, my local game store used to give away ordinary lands to regular customers. A nickel apiece doesn't seem outrageous, though, if you really need the lands.

Local stores are golden for new people to the game. In 7th grade my friend and I walked into a store and told the guy we were looking for Magic cards. He went into the back and got us a bag full of commons he had. He said they weren't worth the trouble of trying to sell.

There is also the opportunity of finding other people (and decks) to play against, and they will probably be more understanding of new players than on-line people will.

[Quimby]

Originally Posted by Chronos

The cynical part of me thinks that they're deliberately creating mechanics that don't work with the tabletop simulator programs, to try to force players into using the program they get money from. But hey, the inventors of the original cardboard crack wouldn't do something like that, would they?

They don't really need to do that when they have every right to just issue a Cease and Desist. I believe they did it once already. The original version of OCTGN was called MTGPlay and had Magic specific terminology and imagery. From what I recall, WotC said something and it was changed to a generic card playing platform and technically the MTG game it can play is a separate plugin that the OCTGN creators have no official connection to.

I am kind of shocked they have allowed it to live as long as it has especially since MTGOnline exists.

BTW I hope the OP doesn't mind this has kind of turned into a generic MTG discussion thread...

[MHaye]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

Back when I was playing, my local game store used to give away ordinary lands to regular customers. A nickel apiece doesn't seem outrageous, though, if you really need the lands.

Back when you were playing, stores probably didn't need the basic lands. Now, they probably get through thousands a year running limited format tournaments.

Limited formats are those where the entry fee buys a certtain number of boosters; players build their decks from the boosters, then add basic lands to taste. Thing is, the players probably don't have enough on them, so the TO organises a big pile for players to grab.

Time was that the shop could get the lands from opening starter decks or tournament packs. Not any more - they have to buy blocks from WotC to keep the supply up.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Back when you were playing, stores probably didn't need the basic lands. Now, they probably get through thousands a year running limited format tournaments.

Yeah, I don't think that those tournaments were running when I was playing. I know that there were SOME tournaments going, and I attended a few, but we had to bring our own cards. And we had to walk uphill both ways to get there.

I think that I quit playing when the Arabian Nights came out, might have been later. I know I bought a few booster packs after the Arabian Nights, just to see what was out there...but most of the people I'd played with had moved out of town.

Do players still use tapping stones?

[Chronos]

Local stores are golden for new people to the game. In 7th grade my friend and I walked into a store and told the guy we were looking for Magic cards. He went into the back and got us a bag full of commons he had. He said they weren't worth the trouble of trying to sell.

At first I read that as "a bag full of condoms".

But yeah, that makes a lot of sense as a business decision. Get someone into the hobby, and you've got a repeat customer, who will buy the things you make money on.

Oh, and the new mechanics don't have to be an either-or decision on WotC's part. Even if keeping the game interesting is their primary motive, I can't imagine that they view the disabling of a competing product as a bad side-effect.

[Yaxche]

Originally Posted by Gedd

In 7th grade my friend and I walked into a store and told the guy we were looking for Magic cards. He went into the back and got us a bag full of commons he had.

The first hit is always free....

[Chronos]

Actually, on that subject, some years back I was in Washington, and noticed that the hotel I was staying at was just down the block from WotC headquarters, and stopped in to take a look. They gave me free cards there, too.

[BlinkingDuck]

You'll need a thick skin cuz he will kick your ass!

YMMV

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by Gedd

I always found Takklemaggot to be a bit creepy. That could partly be because of all the text though . . .

This.


I swear, it's like Takklemaggot went after the Senior class superlative of "wordy" and then overkilled it worst than Red Burn.

[Trepa Mayfield]

I have been having so much fun cubing on Magic online it's not even funny.

"Cubing" is relevant to this thread in the sense that it's the exact opposite of the thing you should do if you're just starting playing.

[markdash]

Originally Posted by Trepa Mayfield

I have been having so much fun cubing on Magic online it's not even funny.

"Cubing" is relevant to this thread in the sense that it's the exact opposite of the thing you should do if you're just starting playing.

I've been watching a lot of cube video/streams and am enjoying it immensely. However, it's pretty significantly -EV which matters to someone like me. Given more time and financial resources, I would probably be cubing my brains out right now.

[Chronos]

"Cubing" is buying a big block of random cards all at once and then sifting through them for gems?

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Originally Posted by Chronos

"Cubing" is buying a big block of random cards all at once and then sifting through them for gems?

No. "Cubing" is assembling and playing with a collection of individual cards (usually by trading or buying single cards) that you think play together well, using them and them only (with basic lands, of course) to play limited games (as defined above by MHaye, except that there's no entry fee and instead of opening booster packs to get semi-randomized cards, you use the same number of cards from the cube).

I have a Cube of about 600 unique cards shuffled into more or less random order. It lets my friends and I play limited games in an environment whose power level and typical strategies are precisely controlled to be the kind that we like to play (e.g. with vs. without the most powerful of powerful cards; lots of fast, aggressive cards vs. lots of slow, powerful flashy cards; plenty of counterspells vs. very few.)

Magic Online has its own cube players can use, simulating an environment like the one most paper Magic cubes provide with lots of powerful cards from throughout the game's history.

I wouldn't recommend trying to build a cube to fairly new players or those without a fairly large group to play with as it can get expensive, (especially if you're trying to assembly very high power cards) requires a good deal of familiarity with cards from ever era of the game's history and is most fun if you have a lot of people to play with.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Forgive the double post; I missed the edit window.

Regarding the thread's original question, I'd recommend against Duel Decks if either player is pretty new to the game. They tend to have lots of cards with individual mechanics to learn as well of lots of different cards to learn. Just looking at the most recent (Venser vs. Koth) you'd have flash, scry, hybrid mana, shroud, landfall, reach, landcycling, equip and flashback (in addition to some of the more common ones like flying, haste and first strike) to learn. Most of them are explained on the cars that use them, but it's still a lot to read until you start to remember what each keyword means and will slow down early games and add confusion. If you get a couple of Intro Packs from the same set, you'll probably only have three or four new keywords to get familiar with as you learn. I personally like Core Set intro packs for teaching the game as the cards tend to be a little simpler with primarilly recurring mechanics (like the abovementioned flying) and the core sets tend to have a more classic fantasy feal to them (with more elves, dragons and merfolk and fewer nacatls, malignuses and vedalkens).

All that being said, Intro Packs from any set (or sets) are good for new (or newer) players and even Duel Decks can work with a little extra patience.