Was Metta World Peace's elbow to Harden's head accidental or deliberate?

[astro]

Here's the video.

It's so over the top flagrant you have to wonder if it really was just an accident.

Accident or deliberate?

Video here

During Sunday afternoon's Lakers home game against the Oklahoma City Thunder, we saw a side of MWP that we haven't encountered in quite some time. With the Lakers down three points in the final minutes of the first half, World Peace executed a really quite excellent Euro step and left-handed dunk in transition. In his excitement, he began celebrating on his way back up the court and bumped into OKC guard (and likely Sixth Man of the Year) James Harden. As Harden moved past him, World Peace elbowed him hard in the side of the head. Harden went to the ground immediately, and Metta was immediately and rightfully ejected from the game.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Deliberate.

[Marley23]

It happened fast, but yeah, it's hard to believe he didn't know Harden was there since they bumped before he threw the elbow. It's disappointing since he's generally improved his behavior over the last couple of years and tried to get his craziness under control, but he deserves the suspension.

[Hamlet]

Seems pretty hard to argue that it was anything but deliberate. How Ron ... Ummmm Metta couldn't know Harden was there when Harden was rubbing up against him is beyond me..

[DCnDC]

Deliberate.

I had actually just turned that game on when he was dunking the ball just prior to the elbow. They must have replayed it at least 2 dozen times in a row. There was clearly a windup and follow-through. He knew exactly what he was doing.

[hajario]

I don't know that he was deliberately aiming for his head but he definitely swung hard towards where he knew Harden was. I am a long time Laker fan and I think that he should be out for the rest of the season and the first playoff series at least.

[Marley23]

He's been suspended for seven games. That'll be the last game of the regular season and up to the first six of the playoffs- or the first games of next season if the Lakers crash and burn.

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Marley23

He's been suspended for seven games. That'll be the last game of the regular season and up to the first six of the playoffs- or the first games of next season if the Lakers crash and burn.

Thanks. I wasn't aware that a decision was made. It looks like he got pretty much the minimum of what I thought he deserved.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by hajario

Thanks. I wasn't aware that a decision was made. It looks like he got pretty much the minimum of what I thought he deserved.

It seems like a reasonable amount to me, but I didn't have a firm opinion on what he deserved. Here's the ESPN story about the suspension. It was announced just this evening.

[Wheelz]

Definitely hit him on purpose; I suppose it's possible he didn't mean to hit him quite so hard, but that's no excuse.

Originally Posted by astro

It's so over the top flagrant you have to wonder if it really was just an accident.

This is such a brilliant defense, I'd love to see Artest appeal with this strategy. "Mr. Commissioner, the hit was so obviously deliberate that it couldn't possibly have been deliberate! Chewbacca lives on Endor!"

[The_Peyote_Coyote]

Deliberate. I've never seen a foul so flagrant. I'm glad he got suspended.

[brickbacon]

His suspension should be from now until 7 games AFTER Harden comes back to play. The victim here may end up missing as much time as MWP, which seems pretty unfair.

[astorian]

It was definitely deliberate.

It was NOT an accident.

James Harden did NOT provoke it.

This was just Ron Artest being Ron Artest. He probably didn't intend to cause a serious injury, but he did. He deserved a longer suspension than he got. As it is, he'll only miss the first playoff series against a weak opponent that the Lakers will clobber anyway.

[phungi]

Try raising your arm up and swinging your elbow at that level... it is uncomfortable, unorthodox, and irregular... the only defense I could imagine would be "I sensed he was there so I raised my elbow at the last second to avoid hitting him, and ended up hitting him in the head instead"... however, this would only be accurate and valid had he actually seemed to care at the time... I would think that Artest had to feel his elbow hitting something hard (e.g., not body tissue, but bone) but he continued down the court doing whatever he was doing/displaying/celebrating... were it an accident, I would think he would have been immediately surprised that he contacted bone/skull, stopped whatever he was doing, showed some compassion, and actually turned around to see of Harden was ok.

In short: deliberate.

[NoClueBoy]

deliberate

Artest is a creep. Always has been.

[voltaire]

First of all, I agree that it was deliberate and he probably deserves even harsher punishment.

Originally Posted by astro

It's so over the top flagrant you have to wonder if it really was just an accident.

I think the best way to describe what you're trying to say is that it was physically deliberate, but it was mentally unintentional. And an even better way of describing that, is that he simply has some self-control issues.

[Typo Negative]

When I first saw the clip, I thought it could be accidental. When I saw it in slow motion, it sure looked deliberate.

[Gangster Octopus]

Deliberate, especially since he didn't even react like "Oh crap, my bad" after he had done it.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by voltaire

And an even better way of describing that, is that he simply has some self-control issues.

That's putting it mildly. After some more thought, I'd say the elbow was definitely intentional but it's possible he didn't intend to hit Harden in the head. I don't think that matters in determining the suspension, though.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by brickbacon

His suspension should be from now until 7 games AFTER Harden comes back to play. The victim here may end up missing as much time as MWP, which seems pretty unfair.

I agree. Flagrant and deliberate.

[Procrustus]

How could it be deliberate?

His publicist, Courtney Barnes, said that World Peace chose Metta as his first name because it is a traditional Buddhist word that means loving kindness and friendliness towards all

From Wikipeadia

[Jas09]

If you can't trust a man named World Peace then who can you trust?

[Jack Batty]

Seven game suspension? He should have got seven months in jail. He could have killed that dude with a flying elbow like that.

[DCnDC]

Originally Posted by Jas09

If you can't trust a man named World Peace then who can you trust?

On the contrary, you never trust a man named "World Peace"! Also known as the "Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard Effect".

[shiftless]

Deliberate. Nobody would play ball with a guy who just happened to threw elbows around like that.

Although, when World Peace elbows you to the head, you have to have been doing something terribly wrong.

[Gangster Octopus]

Originally Posted by Jack Batty

Seven game suspension? He should have got seven months in jail. He could have killed that dude with a flying elbow like that.

You over-estimate David Stern's power.

[Omniscient]

It was clearly deliberate, but I'm willing to concede a caveat. I don't know that Artest was trying to ring Harden's bell. I think he was caught up in his celebration and noticed Harden coming into his space to check him and he swung the elbow to clear him out, as if he were corralling a rebound. There was a complete absence of thought. Of course wildly throwing elbows to clear people out is wrong, and not being aware of what you are doing on a court is wrong, but perhaps those are somewhat less malicious than sizing a guy up and planting your elbow in his temple.

All that said, he absolutely should have been suspended for the rest of the season. Harden was hurt and may be out a while, head injury is a serious issue these days and shots to the head need to be treated more severely and you simply cannot have a worse "prior offense" than the Melee. If anyone should be on a zero-tolerance policy it's Artest.

In the back of my head I was thinking the Thunder should have cleared the bench and come out swinging. Sure, they'd all have been suspended and fined but it would have clearly been defended in the media and the fines and suspensions on Artest would have to be much higher if he'd started a second brawl. Stern would have absolutely panicked if a big fight broke out over Artest's actions again. Tactically, making it so Artest started a brawl would have been the best possible outcome for the Thunder when it comes to ousting the Lakers from the playoffs.

[Xema]

Metta World Peace's motto: Think globally, act out locally.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

In the back of my head I was thinking the Thunder should have cleared the bench and come out swinging.

Fortunately, the NBA got serious about punishing that kind of thing years ago and it doesn't happen much anymore.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Fortunately, the NBA got serious about punishing that kind of thing years ago and it doesn't happen much anymore.

Yeah, but in this one rare case with Artest I think it'd have been worth the hit. Artest would get all the heat and blame.

[Peremensoe]

Originally Posted by Gangster Octopus

You over-estimate David Stern's power.

I believe it would have been within Stern's power and province to simply announce, along with the suspension, that the NBA was providing the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office with all relevant video. While I doubt any actual prosecution would have followed, the implication of the possibility would have been a strong message.

For symbolism, if nothing else, the suspension itself should have been calculated to preclude any possibility of MWP appearing in this year's playoffs, or in (at least) the first game of the next season.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Peremensoe

I believe it would have been within Stern's power and province to simply announce, along with the suspension, that the NBA was providing the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office with all relevant video.

No, trying to get a player prosecuted is a terrible idea and it probably would have provoked some serious labor unrest. I am sure the district attorney has ESPN and YouTube, and they can make their own decision about prosecuting the guy without grandstanding from David Stern.

[Jackknifed Juggernaut]

I might've given him the benefit of the doubt (due to his relatively angelic recent behavior) had this happened after a big shot at the end of the game. But with his team being down 10 points in the 2nd quarter? Nah. I do agree with others that he may not have been trying to hit Harden in the head. I don't think that he even knew that it was Harden there as opposed to another Thunder player. But to throw such a reckless elbow deserves a major suspension. He really could've killed someone if that elbow landed in another spot. I do think that Stern did give him a bit of break due to 2 factors:

1) He didn't go after Harden and could not have known that he was going to hit his head.
2) The Lakers would be severely handicapped in the Playoffs without MWP, and the NBA can't afford to lose the SoCal-based revenue.

[Peremensoe]

Originally Posted by Marley23

No, trying to get a player prosecuted is a terrible idea and it probably would have provoked some serious labor unrest. I am sure the district attorney has ESPN and YouTube, and they can make their own decision about prosecuting the guy without grandstanding from David Stern.

I didn't say he should try to get him prosecuted, just acknowledge, once, the fact that such events might, in some circumstances, be larger than his own jurisdiction.

I'd call that part of his job, not grandstanding.

[Rick]

I would just like to mention that when I heard the name change (I don't follow b-ball) and saw the video the following things happened:
The needle on my irony meter hit the WTF pin so hard it sheared the pin off.
The needle then spun around for several seconds at about 1500 RPM before flying off and breaking the glass covering it.
At this point smoke began to pour from the back of the unit, there was a large sprooong noise and what looks like a broken spring is dangling from the unit.
Guess I am in the market for a new irony meter. Do they make them with overload protection now?

[Jack Batty]

Jimmy Kimmel said something like, "he aimed a little high with the name change; maybe he should have gone with Metta Recycle Your Cans or something like that."

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Peremensoe

I didn't say he should try to get him prosecuted

That's what he'd be doing if he made a public announcement about sending game footage to the DA, and that is definitely how those actions would be viewed. Putting aside the question of whether or not World Peace deserves criminal charges - because I can understand the idea even though I'm skeptical - it would be a huge problem for Stern if the NBA players felt he was actually trying to bring the wrath of law enforcement down on a player. He's in charge of discipline for the NBA, not criminal investigations: his decisions about suspensions are independent of what a prosecutor does. There have been a few instances where sports leagues have cooperated with the prosecution of players for stuff they did on the field, but you don't see them trying to get the government to prosecute players for illegal hits. If someone wants to prosecute World Peace for that elbow, they'll get in touch with the Lakers and the NBA.

[voltaire]

Out of curiosity, other than criminal charges, would Harden or the Thunder have some civil recourse? Yes, I know anybody can sue anybody, but I wonder if the NBA has some sort of immunity to civil liability in their contracts.

[Marley23]

Harden has been cleared to play, by the way. He could have played Wednesday, but was held out because the game did not mean anything for the Thunder. He'll be on the court when the team begins its playoff series over the weekend.

[HookerChemical]

Deliberate. Probably not head hunting, but clearly intended to give a shot to somebody and clear them out. I wanted to believe MWP had turned over a new leaf, but it's clear he still has no impulse control.

I don't think the NBA could have justified anything longer than 7 games. Most flagrant elbows result in 1 or 2 game suspensions. Punches draw much longer suspensions.

[JRDelirious]

Originally Posted by Jack Batty

Jimmy Kimmel said something like, "he aimed a little high with the name change; maybe he should have gone with Metta Recycle Your Cans or something like that."

Or even just Uno-Cinco.

Really, dudes...