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  #151  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:32 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunky Smurf View Post
bolding mine.

I fucked a tree once. I thought I'd go the safe route and do a maple tree because I thought the maple syrup would act like lube but it really didn't.
Other species are more poplar.
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  #152  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:42 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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I just want to post to say that I don't think that Broomstick overreacted. My first thought on reading the OP was to ponder ways to hide a tack in the sole of a shoe such that it wouldn't poke through until the wearer put his full weight on it. On realizing the impracticality of this, my second thought was that she should have called the police. It was perfectly correct and reasonable for her to feel threatened by this creep, and it's quite appropriate to call the police about someone who's making you feel threatened like that.
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  #153  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:44 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
I just want to post to say that I don't think that Broomstick overreacted. My first thought on reading the OP was to ponder ways to hide a tack in the sole of a shoe such that it wouldn't poke through until the wearer put his full weight on it.
I considered suggesting something of that nature as well, but a moment's reflection made me realize that the creep would just use that as an excuse to return to the store.
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  #154  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:03 PM
even sven even sven is offline
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Le'ts do this systematically. I'm leaving quotes whole, so I don't get accused of cherry picking.

Standard responses to a person who has been sexually harassed or assulated:
1. It didn't happen
2. You are probably misinterpreting what happened, he's probably just a socially awkward guy trying to be friendly
3. You are overreacting
4. You must have done something to invite that. Thus, this is your fault.
5. You did not do a good enough job stopping it, you should have done XYZ. Thus, this is your fault
6. Anyway, you should just suck it up. This is what you get for doing your job/dressing like that/being female in public
7. It's not women who have the problem, it's men who have the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malacandra View Post
Want some cheese with that?
3. You are overreacting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
I don't know if the Pit is the best choice for a posting that expects supporting and comforting responses.

And while I'm here, all joking aside, I guess I'm a little confused about why this upset you so much. Yes, it's clear the man has no social skills and no real sense of propriety. And I understand that those are danger signs that you'd be foolish to simply forget.

But at the same time, what I hear you relating is not, as I think about it, fearsome or threatening contact. It's simply boorish and rude.

I know that as a man, I'm not a target of this kind of attention as a general rule. But I am honestly not seeing the justification for the literal naseous reaction you had.
3. You are overreacting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Except that's not what Broomstick said in the OP.

There's a whole range of possible responses that can be described that way, anything from skeevy but mild to genuinely threatening.

I'll admit I interpreted it as a more mild attempt to continue flirting, which is still not cool, but not on the level of yelling or berating.
2. You are probably misinterpreting what happened, he's probably just a socially awkward guy trying to be friendly
3. You are overreacting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
It could easily be tone-deaf..
2. You are probably misinterpreting what happened, he's probably just a socially awkward guy trying to be friendly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ducca View Post
2. You are probably misinterpreting what happened, he's probably just a socially awkward guy trying to be friendly
3. You are overreacting

Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkerInNJ View Post
Is this your first time working with the public? If so, accept that a certain percentage of the public is anywhere from clueless to outright mentally ill and don't get yourself worked up about it. He was a total ass, but by this stage of his life, nothing is going to rectify that.

Hand the jerk his shoes, say thanks for using Cobblers Inc. and be deaf and mute as far as he is concerned from that instant on. No need to respond further to him or his inappropriate demands.
4. You must have done something to invite that. Thus, this is your fault.
5. You did not do a good enough job stopping it, you should have done XYZ. Thus, this is your fault
6. Anyway, you should just suck it up. This is what you get for doing your job/dressing like that/being female in public

(Of course, LurkerInNJ is a for model- how could I forget- so her words have extra weight to them)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YogSosoth View Post
The only way the guy's 2nd visit would have some creepiness mitigated is if he just happened to be in the same mall and decided to drop by on a lark.
2. You are probably misinterpreting what happened, he's probably just a socially awkward guy trying to be friendly
3. You are overreacting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hartwick View Post
I understand that sexual harassment is a bad thing.

I also understand people taking Broomstick's posts with a grain or more of salt.
1. It didn't happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
Needing to take a multitude of showers because someone hit on her is fucking nuts.
3. You are overreacting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Princhester View Post
I understand that having the misfortune to run across someone like this is bad, but really your title reads as if this particular type of guy is common or at least some sort of noteworthy minority. He sounds to me though like a nutter, not a wannabe smoothie. Anyone who gets turned down and comes back the next morning to ask why you haven't called isn't just your regular insensitive pickup artist. He's a fruitcake.

I worked in retail a long time ago. Retail is a magnet for lonely slightly mentally ill people who have discovered that sales assistants etc can be talked at and can't run away and have to maintain a facade of politeness. I don't mean this as criticism but as a simple statement of fact that if you get nauseous and can't sleep from anger after an encounter with someone like this, rather than being able to blow him off as a random irrelevancy, you are going to have a tough time in retail.
6. Anyway, you should just suck it up. This is what you get for doing your job/dressing like that/being female in public

Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkerInNJ View Post
If it was threatening then why did you give him your attention and tell him about your marital status and listen to him while he talked? You could have have stared over his shoulder with a disinterested look and cut him off with a quick "I need to get back to work. Have you made a decision about your sandals?" If he keeps going on, you walk away. There is no need to engage these people in a discussion, and their talking AT you is their idea of a conversation.

He came back? A simple flat "We're done here Sir" with no face or eye contact the second he opens his mouth and walk away.
4. You must have done something to invite that. Thus, this is your fault.
5. You did not do a good enough job stopping it, you should have done XYZ. Thus, this is your fault
6. Anyway, you should just suck it up. This is what you get for doing your job/dressing like that/being female in public

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindboyard View Post
I would have just assumed he was a Freemason.

I'm still not seeing the threat. Fine, he's bigger than you and acting like an idiot, but he also left when asked. Only if you're just assuming that all men are an imminent threat because they're bigger than you does this seem threatening.

Don't worry so much about your safety. Women are victims of only a minority of violent crime, no matter how tiny they might perceive themselves to be.
3. You are overreacting
7. It's not women who have the problem, it's men who have the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by palacheck View Post
This thread is certainly sexist. Against men.

By the way, it's usually wiser to wait for some actual overt sexism on the part of the male dopers before the usual crew of *crusaders* begin waging war.
7. It's not women who have the problem, it's men who have the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
The "shit that happened" is that someone talked to you.

Claiming it is anything more is fucking offensive to people who have actually been sexually abused, to people who have seen the damage to their loved ones caused by sexual abuse, and by the vast majority of men you are tarring with the same brush as rapists and abusers.

Sure, he shouldn't have made you feel uncomfortable, and he was an arsehole for doing it. There's nothing in your story that rises to the level of threatening for any reasonable person, though, especially as you've now said that he wasn't propositioning you the second day.

3. You are overreacting
6. Anyway, you should just suck it up. This is what you get for doing your job/dressing like that/being female in public
7. It's not women who have the problem, it's men who have the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
Interesting how you've not actually responded to anything I said.

It certainly doesn't prove anything, but if your mischaracterisation of and overreaction to my post are anything to go by, that guy may well have done nothing wrong.
1. It didn't happen

It wouldn't be such a big deal if this was a one-off rection to a one-off story. But it's part of a pattern that happens whenever any female doper posts a similar story. It's also, coincidentally, the exact same bullshit that people give to rape victims and other women who have had been threatened or hurt in a sexual way. People will jump hoops trying to twist the scenario to find some possible way to interpret the guy as not being creepy.

I'm going to blame the Nice Guy syndrome. I think what we are seeing is guys who are resentful that women have preferences in their sexual partners, and may want to be with attractive, charming, outgoing men more than a weird socially awkward guy.
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  #155  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:10 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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You left out

8. OP didn't tell the whole fucking story and the most important part of it from the get go.

Last edited by billfish678; 05-01-2012 at 03:11 PM..
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  #156  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:14 PM
YogSosoth YogSosoth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Femm View Post
It is a well-known sub-rosa sexual signal for gay interest, from the days when most gays were in the closet. If some customer did that to me I would jerk my hand away and ask him what the hell he thought he was doing (not that it's likely at my age). (When I say well-known, I mean well-known among gay men of a certain age, so maybe not to the poster who brought it up).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post
Am I the only one that thinks this signal is well-known for "I'm gay, are you?" I learned this in, like, 6th grade on the playground. Was my elementary class just an odd exception?
This is the first time I've heard about this. Guess I know now.
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  #157  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:15 PM
Heart of Dorkness Heart of Dorkness is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish678 View Post
8. OP didn't tell the whole fucking story and the most important part of it from the get go.
Which is what, exactly?
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  #158  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:19 PM
even sven even sven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish678 View Post
You left out

8. OP didn't tell the whole fucking story and the most important part of it from the get go.
I'm guess the OP figured that what she included was enough to convey why she was upset, without necessarily having to do a minute by minute blow by blow to be gone over with a fine toothed comb by the nitpick squad looking for any way at all to incorporate excuses 1-7 into their reaction. Indeed, the majority of people in this thread got her point and were immediately sympathetic.

Schoolyard bullies are good at saying just the right thing to get people on the defensive, knowing that once they on the defensive they will never win but will be fun to toy around with and will probably give the desired emotional reaction. Unfortunately, this happened with Broomstick and she played right into their hands trying to explain herself with explanations that would never live up to their demands.
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  #159  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:21 PM
AqualungBats5th AqualungBats5th is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
Oh shut up, you pious twit. You're as stupid as you seem if you believe this, and if you don't believe it but just wanted to launch into yet another boring "me! me! me!" diatribe, then stop flapping your yap here, and get a blog.

Since your post suggests that you have some sort of congenital brain defect, allow me to explain in teeny-tiny words: To whatever degree my post was funny, it's funny because it's a Simpsons quote and because Broomstick's initial reaction (in post 8) to purely supportive posts was so over-the-top freaky bizarre. If you don't want the guy who stalked you mocked (which is what she was reacting to in posts 2-7) and only want {{{{{huggles}}}}}, don't fucking post in the Pit, post in MPSIMS where you'll get people {{{hugging}}} you and posting ASCII art of kittens and flowers. Hell, even Broomstick seems to understand the miscommunication when she says "So, sorry if I offended someone who was trying to by sympathetic or came across as rude but I am fucking pissed as hell about this as well as scared and it doesn't bring out the best in me. "--and I can understand the "I was freaked out and it doesn't bring out the best in me" feeling perfectly.

But I'll bet you DO you know this but you just want to lecture someone about your own shallow, boring opinions in your standard condescending tone.

I know you have a snarkboner for her and all, but don't you already have a dumbfuck board to spooge this shit onto, you fucking simpleton?

Your joke wasn't funny for exactly the reason she said. But it was also a poorly executed Simpsons reference. This board is already littered with that enough.

Also, how the fuck are doper jokes "purely supportive"? You think:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithCommaJohn View Post
Hey there. What time do you get off work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
Huh. Cobbler is still a profession?
Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish678 View Post
Maybe he thought you were a gobbler, not a cobbler? And you got handshake raped? And a word of advice. In this bad ecconomy the better you service your customers the better you'll be able to weather this economic storm.
was supportive? Seriously? And sven is the idiot that needs to be spoken down to? That is the joke.
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  #160  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:23 PM
Bob Ducca Bob Ducca is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by even sven View Post
2. You are probably misinterpreting what happened, he's probably just a socially awkward guy trying to be friendly
3. You are overreacting
Not surprisingly, you're way off on your characterizations of my post. Probably the others as well.
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  #161  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:24 PM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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NM--double post

Last edited by Fenris; 05-01-2012 at 03:26 PM..
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  #162  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:26 PM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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Originally Posted by even sven View Post
I'm going to blame the Nice Guy syndrome. I think what we are seeing is guys who are resentful that women have preferences in their sexual partners, and may want to be with attractive, charming, outgoing men more than a weird socially awkward guy.
My dear old fish, go and boil your head.
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  #163  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:26 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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nm

Last edited by Procrustus; 05-01-2012 at 03:28 PM..
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  #164  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:28 PM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AqualungBats5th View Post
I know you have a snarkboner for her and all, but don't you already have a dumbfuck board to spooge this shit onto, you fucking simpleton?
Awww....someone needs a hug {{{AquaBat}}}

Quote:
And sven is the idiot that needs to be spoken down to?
Yes. Glad I could answer that for you.
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  #165  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:29 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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Originally Posted by Heart of Dorkness View Post
Which is what, exactly?
That she wasn't just pissed. She was scared for her life, very emotionally upset, and so on and so on.

Its like me posting about some asshole that cuts me off in traffic and I damaged my car. Damn asshole! I am so mad!

Then some posters come in say thats too bad, yeah what a jerk! but also make jokes of varying degrees of funny and or politically correct/ incorrectness.

Then I come back about how all these joke are not funny and how can you guys not get it?! You are all so fucking mean and judgemental! Don't you know my wife can't work, we have two kids, my father was killed in a car accident, and I might not be able to afford to fix it. We have not friends or family in town and if I don't have a car I'll loose my job and in this economy we will end up in streets and blah blah blah.

Fuck the two part story shit. Or at the very least don't get bent and angry at posters that can't fucking read your mind.

Of course I guess we are talking women here who expect that ability of pretty much everyone.

At first I felt kinda bad about joking about something she LATER revealed really upset her in a serious way. But then when she jumped everybodies shit and could not tell the difference between intent and content I thought again and said fuck it, it's her fault her thread went down the shitter. Of course the fact Even Stevens autocrusade subroutine automatically kicked in for no good reason didn't help anything.

Last edited by billfish678; 05-01-2012 at 03:34 PM..
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  #166  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:30 PM
RedFury RedFury is offline
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Man flirts, woman rejects, man persists.

Ooooh! World's coming to an end. Specially when the reverse is not uncommon to happen.

PS -- Remind me. Where do babies come from? Marriage only? Or date rape alone? Or does persistence -- from either sex -- have anything to do with it?

Last edited by RedFury; 05-01-2012 at 03:33 PM..
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  #167  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is online now
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Originally Posted by RedFury View Post
Man flirts, woman rejects, man persists.

Ooooh! World's coming to an end. Specially when the reverse is not uncommon to happen.

PS -- Remind me. Where do babies come from? Marriage only? Or date rape alone? Or does persistence -- from either sex -- have anything to do with it?
Speaking of lecherous creeps with foreign accents...
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  #168  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Ludovic Ludovic is online now
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Originally Posted by RedFury View Post
Man flirts, woman rejects, man persists.

Ooooh! World's coming to an end. Specially when the reverse is not uncommon to happen.
Unlike some in this thread, you don't really have an excuse of not knowing the full extent of the creepiness. Coming back to demand reasons for rejection is more than run of the mill flirtation.

If this happened with reverse genders, the man would still be inadvised to try out a relationship due to the dick/crazy rule. It does cut both ways in this instance.
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  #169  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:47 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is online now
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Originally Posted by YogSosoth View Post
This is the first time I've heard about this. Guess I know now.
Two points:

1) I'm skeptical that this is a well-known signal for gay men (or, hilariously, Masons--I love the idea of the Secret Leaders of the Free World molesting one another's palms). If you already know someone is gay/Masonic, then you may not need a signal to check in with them. If you don't, then doing this signal to the wrong person is going to get you clocked. It might work if you're certain they're a gay Mason but they don't know you are, but otherwise it's a risky move.
2) The reason I'm suggesting you try it on someone else is because I have. Only on friends, mind you, and only as part of this story; when I get to the part about the handshake, I'll ask them to shake my hand. Invariably the person who shakes my hand leaps back as if I'd put a wasp in my hand and gives me this look of "Ima kill you!" before they start to laugh in disgusted outrage. Sometimes people will wipe their hand frantically against their pants as if trying to clean filth off of it.

This is not a gesture that's prone to misinterpretation. It's molestation-by-lie: when you reach out to shake someone's hand, unless you're ZPG (who I imagine is throwing up in the bushes after reading this post), you're expecting a handshake to be a friendly, nonsexual gesture. When the person takes advantage of your expectation to turn it into an intimate caress of a sensitive area of skin--go ahead, caress your own palm now, see how it feels--it's really oogy and awful.

But if you haven't experienced it, you may not understand just how nasty it is. Same thing if you haven't experienced other examples of people larger than you, in positions of mild power over you (e..g, customer treating employee), treating you sexually under inappropriate circumstances.
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  #170  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:49 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is online now
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Originally Posted by RedFury View Post
PS -- Remind me. Where do babies come from? Marriage only? Or date rape alone? Or does persistence -- from either sex -- have anything to do with it?
Who gives a crap where babies come from? If you think this is a good dating strategy, stay away from my family, please, and by family I mean species.

"Maybe some other time" might mean "Ask again later." But "I'm not interested" does not mean "Come back the next day and demand to know why you didn't call me." The first might be a positive kind of persistence. The second is creepy awful loserness.
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  #171  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:51 PM
fluiddruid fluiddruid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFury View Post
Man flirts, woman rejects, man persists.

Ooooh! World's coming to an end. Specially when the reverse is not uncommon to happen.

PS -- Remind me. Where do babies come from? Marriage only? Or date rape alone? Or does persistence -- from either sex -- have anything to do with it?
You know, perhaps I'm naive, but I'm gonna go out in right field here and say I'm pretty sure that badgering retail workers who have given a clear and definitive "no, I'm not interested and am also married" response isn't really how our species is populating itself.

Let's not pretend that this is a case of poor men being oppressed by unfair women who can't handle any romantic attraction from men they don't care for. No, it's not the end of the world, and it's possible to overreact to, but uncomfortable and persistent romantic demands to a woman, especially a married woman, and especially in her workplace, is clear creeper territory. It'd be just as creepy with the genders reversed, though the physical size/strength discrepancy doesn't exist in this case.

Last edited by fluiddruid; 05-01-2012 at 03:51 PM..
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  #172  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:51 PM
RedFury RedFury is offline
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Missing the point. From my perspective -- I guess that makes me, oh so special! 'cept I doubt it -- there are more than plenty of women with a creep factor close to 9/10.

Point being, that while I don't doubt they are at least in the 1 to 2 ratio, they are out there -- worked retail management for over a decade and met aplenty of them -- and as long it's just an annoying experience, would that was the worst that happened to me dealing with costumers.

--

Just for Vinny:

"Corinthian Leather."
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  #173  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:54 PM
Bosstone Bosstone is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Ducca View Post
Not surprisingly, you're way off on your characterizations of my post. Probably the others as well.
Yep, mine as well.

I wasn't saying Broomstick was overreacting. I was saying the other posters who were assuming the worst from an ambiguous retelling might have been overreacting, especially when yelling at those of us who were assuming a more mild confrontation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
The very next morning he comes to the shop and wants to know why I didn't call him!
Posters make jokes.

Other posters: "How dare you make light of this situation! That creeper came back and berated/yelled at her!"

Me: "...Buh? The OP didn't say that, why are you assuming it?"

sven: "Oh, blaming the victim now?"

"...Buh?"

The OP was very much written as a "Can you believe this guy? " kind of thing, not "This was horrible and I feel unclean! " And by the time Broomstick clarified, she'd already gotten her melodrama on.

Last edited by Bosstone; 05-01-2012 at 03:55 PM..
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  #174  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:02 PM
Bob Ducca Bob Ducca is online now
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
Speaking of lecherous creeps with foreign accents...
[Belushi]"How much for the women?" [/Belushi]
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  #175  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:03 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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I'm surprised that a libertarian hasn't yet come in here to say that so long as she didn't negotiate a contractual right not to have this type of thing happen, it's all fair play.
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  #176  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:05 PM
RedFury RedFury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Yep, mine as well.

I wasn't saying Broomstick was overreacting. I was saying the other posters who were assuming the worst from an ambiguous retelling might have been overreacting, especially when yelling at those of us who were assuming a more mild confrontation.



Posters make jokes.

Other posters: "How dare you make light of this situation! That creeper came back and berated/yelled at her!"

Me: "...Buh? The OP didn't say that, why are you assuming it?"

sven: "Oh, blaming the victim now?"

"...Buh?"

The OP was very much written as a "Can you believe this guy? " kind of thing, not "This was horrible and I feel unclean! " And by the time Broomstick clarified, she'd already gotten her melodrama on.

Thank you. Didn't bother to read the rest of the indignant "men are horny irrespectful assholes thread" but that was pretty much my impression from reading the OP. Of course, not even BD deserved that treatment in her prime -- nor did Sean Connery.

But shit happens. We are human and as long as that's the end of it -- a Pit rant, it's all good for Bo & Sean. Much better than working in a Somalia mall I bet....

Last edited by RedFury; 05-01-2012 at 04:08 PM..
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  #177  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:10 PM
Malacandra Malacandra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by even sven View Post
Le'ts do this systematically. I'm leaving quotes whole, so I don't get accused of cherry picking.

Standard responses to a person who has been sexually harassed or assulated:
1. It didn't happen
2. You are probably misinterpreting what happened, he's probably just a socially awkward guy trying to be friendly
3. You are overreacting
4. You must have done something to invite that. Thus, this is your fault.
5. You did not do a good enough job stopping it, you should have done XYZ. Thus, this is your fault
6. Anyway, you should just suck it up. This is what you get for doing your job/dressing like that/being female in public
7. It's not women who have the problem, it's men who have the problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by Malacandra
Want some cheese with that?
3. You are overreacting
The crack about wanting cheese was in response to Broomstick throwing her toys out of the pram because a small minority of posters in the thread seemed not to be 100% overwhelming in their sympathy - not in response to her account of the original incident.
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  #178  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:17 PM
Heart of Dorkness Heart of Dorkness is online now
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Originally Posted by billfish678 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart of Dorkness View Post
Which is what, exactly?
That she wasn't just pissed. She was scared for her life, very emotionally upset, and so on and so on.
My apologies. It sounded like you were being an asshole and saying that there was nothing in the OP for her to be upset about, rather than that she wasn't clear how threatening the situation was, and how upset she was. I agree; it sounded more like (thoroughly justified) garden-variety venting at first, and I didn't get why she was unhappy with the responses she got, especially Diosa's. Sorry for the wrong assumption.

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Originally Posted by billfish678 View Post
Of course I guess we are talking women here who expect that ability of pretty much everyone.
Oh, no wait - still an asshole.
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  #179  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:19 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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Originally Posted by Heart of Dorkness View Post
Oh, no wait - still an asshole.
Well, if this trains gonna wreck, might as well put the throttle on high right? And even assholes can be right about something sometimes right?

Last edited by billfish678; 05-01-2012 at 04:20 PM..
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  #180  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:45 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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Originally Posted by Heart of Dorkness View Post
My apologies. It sounded like you were being an asshole and saying that there was nothing in the OP for her to be upset about, rather than that she wasn't clear how threatening the situation was, and how upset she was. I agree; it sounded more like (thoroughly justified) garden-variety venting at first, and I didn't get why she was unhappy with the responses she got, especially Diosa's. Sorry for the wrong assumption.
Oops, forgot to say thanks for that. But don't tell anyone I said so or they will take away my asshole union card.
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  #181  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:49 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by even sven View Post
3. You are overreacting
6. Anyway, you should just suck it up. This is what you get for doing your job/dressing like that/being female in public
7. It's not women who have the problem, it's men who have the problem
Yes, she was overreacting. Yes, she will have people talk to her when she's doing her job in public, sometimes more than once, and there's a perfectly good way to get rid of someone who's being inappropriate - that is to tell them to leave, or get someone with the authority to do that, and the police if they refuse. Not continuing to be nice to them, then going home and feeling "unclean".

Also, don't mischaracterise my post with that last one. Plenty of women have had problems with rape and sexual abuse. Fortunately for her, Broomstick is not one of them, at least in this instance, and for her to compare herself to them is fucking offensive.

For that matter, for her to compare a man hitting on her to a potential rapist is also fucking offensive.
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  #182  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:54 PM
Dave Hartwick Dave Hartwick is offline
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I'll just add "hysterical", "formatting abuser", and "blind" to the list of reasons why I think Broomstick is a weirdo.

But I'm still of the opinion that sexual harassment is bad. Maybe I could save time by making that my signature.

Sexual harassment is bad,

Dave
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  #183  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:56 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
Yes, she will have people talk to her when she's doing her job in public, sometimes more than once
You still feel comfortable characterizing the situation this way?
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  #184  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:03 PM
Sierra Indigo Sierra Indigo is offline
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So, Broomstick - are you going to apologise to sandra_nz for being an absolute raging bitch-cow to her, or are you going to continue to cherry-pick the "mean" responses and completely ignore people who have been giving you sympathy like you asked for?
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  #185  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:10 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
You still feel comfortable characterizing the situation this way?
Yes, and in the part of the post you cut I stated exactly what should be done if the talking became inappropriate.
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  #186  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:11 PM
Chessic Sense Chessic Sense is offline
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Originally Posted by RedFury View Post
Man flirts, woman rejects, man persists.

Ooooh! World's coming to an end.
Ok, NOW you're justified, even sven. Now that's a legitimate "You're overreacting." The other stuff you quoted is...mischaracterized.

Separately, can someone tell me why every time someone says "Here's how you can deal with that situation," someone else has to come in and go "Ahhh, blaming the victim, I see. Dick!" Since when is advice on how to cope with adverse situations blaming anybody, much less victims?

When I pitted the thief who has my GPS, and someone said something like "You shouldn't ever leave it in your car," did I come back with "Oh, so this is all my fault?" No. You know why? Because that would be stupid.
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  #187  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:21 PM
Library Boy Library Boy is offline
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Originally Posted by even sven View Post
Hahaha. It's funny, you see, because lechers never attack. Rape and stalking never happen. So women have no reason to fear for their personal safety when people are acting unpredictably towards them.

The thing about horrible people is that they've had their whole lives to be horrible, and they get good at it with practice. People who commit horrible acts for psychological gratification (as opposed to for money or whatever) generally don't run out of the shadows and grab people. They test their victims. They see how far they can push things, getting a handle on what kind of victim you'll be. Then, when they feel like it's a good setup, they do what they are there to do.

And there are all kinds of psychological tricks that work on pretty much anyone. For example, murderers and rapists will often solicit a small favor from a target. This creates some cognitive dissonance, so that the victim feels invested in this interaction and is more willing to go on to the next step. Often times the baddie will set a tone of mild disapproval, which subtly encourages the victim to win his favor by "performing well." These are all real things that work in other situations- for example, pick up artists use the "neg" to pick up women, and soliciting small favors at work is actually a really good way to cement relationships with coworkers.

Baddies are pretty good at getting you halfway down a bad road before you know you are there. They start with an innocuous line of conversation, and they try to get you deeper and deeper into it before they start turning on the weird. Then they see how you react to the weird, and use that to judge if you'd be a good target. But they are really good at all of this, and it's not reasonable to expect to see it coming.

So.....we have much to learn from them?
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  #188  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:28 PM
secretsmile36 secretsmile36 is offline
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Just admit you were flattered.
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  #189  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:31 PM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
Yes, she was overreacting. Yes, she will have people talk to her when she's doing her job in public, sometimes more than once, and there's a perfectly good way to get rid of someone who's being inappropriate - that is to tell them to leave, or get someone with the authority to do that, and the police if they refuse. Not continuing to be nice to them, then going home and feeling "unclean".
Excuse me? How the fuck did you get the idea I "continued to be nice to him"? First day, when it became apparent he was serious about demanding I fuck him I told him to "leave. NOW." When he came back the next day I also told him to leave.

Why don't you just come out and accuse me directly of leading him on? Which I didn't, by the way. I stopped being nice to him and he still came back the next day.

Quote:
Also, don't mischaracterise my post with that last one. Plenty of women have had problems with rape and sexual abuse. Fortunately for her, Broomstick is not one of them, at least in this instance, and for her to compare herself to them is fucking offensive.
And just how do you know whether or not I've suffered sexual abuse and/or rape in the past?

Anyone who has experience past sexual abuse and/or rape (woman or man) who found my posts offensive is welcome to state so directly - they don't need you to make that call for them. Unless you are among their number. Are you?

Quote:
For that matter, for her to compare a man hitting on her to a potential rapist is also fucking offensive.
On the other hand, the man who many years ago grabbed me around the neck, hauled me into the bushes, and started ripping my clothes off did, in fact, start with "hitting on me" and when I continued to say no escalated up to force. Upon reflection, maybe that past incident is part of why this upset me so much, and why I felt so unclean.

To clarify - no, that didn't end in rape. It ended with my attacker curled up on the ground with a broken leg. That doesn't mean it didn't scare the shit out of me.
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  #190  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:05 PM
YogSosoth YogSosoth is offline
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Two points:

1) I'm skeptical that this is a well-known signal for gay men (or, hilariously, Masons--I love the idea of the Secret Leaders of the Free World molesting one another's palms). If you already know someone is gay/Masonic, then you may not need a signal to check in with them. If you don't, then doing this signal to the wrong person is going to get you clocked. It might work if you're certain they're a gay Mason but they don't know you are, but otherwise it's a risky move.
2) The reason I'm suggesting you try it on someone else is because I have. Only on friends, mind you, and only as part of this story; when I get to the part about the handshake, I'll ask them to shake my hand. Invariably the person who shakes my hand leaps back as if I'd put a wasp in my hand and gives me this look of "Ima kill you!" before they start to laugh in disgusted outrage. Sometimes people will wipe their hand frantically against their pants as if trying to clean filth off of it.

This is not a gesture that's prone to misinterpretation. It's molestation-by-lie: when you reach out to shake someone's hand, unless you're ZPG (who I imagine is throwing up in the bushes after reading this post), you're expecting a handshake to be a friendly, nonsexual gesture. When the person takes advantage of your expectation to turn it into an intimate caress of a sensitive area of skin--go ahead, caress your own palm now, see how it feels--it's really oogy and awful.

But if you haven't experienced it, you may not understand just how nasty it is. Same thing if you haven't experienced other examples of people larger than you, in positions of mild power over you (e..g, customer treating employee), treating you sexually under inappropriate circumstances.
Alright, I'm gonna try it on some friends. It just so happens a bunch of us are going out to see the Avengers next week. It'll be hard to get them to shake my hand, since we don't usually do that, but if I'm successful, I'll report it here
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  #191  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:11 PM
Jragon Jragon is offline
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Really, guys? I'm far from one of those "garsh, I'm sorry for having a penis" men, and I'm as socially awkward as they come, but that guy was skeevy as hell and I wouldn't blame anyone for being afraid, for their life or otherwise. That's the kind of person who is so out of touch, and so beyond inadequately socialized that you don't know what they're going to do or where they're going with anything. I know nobody is excusing his behavior, whatever his reasons for doing it, but the OP is pretty much in the right for being afraid. Hell, there's no guarantee calling the police is even the right thing to do, he hadn't done much other than skeeve her out, the chances of him getting off without being arrested are relatively high. They could remove him from the shop, but he knows where she works, there's a non-trivial chance that will just tip him to the breaking point of "full on stalking, rape her because she deserved it."

Okay, maybe "take three showers" thing is a little bit overreacting, but then, I've never understood the "taking a shower because I feel unclean" thing and always thought it was meant to be a joke. Either way, the emotional distress is in no way unwarranted. I'm sorry, Broomstick, nobody deserves that, it's especially bad when you're alone and a captive audience like that.

Last edited by Jragon; 05-01-2012 at 06:13 PM..
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  #192  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:14 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
Excuse me? How the fuck did you get the idea I "continued to be nice to him"? First day, when it became apparent he was serious about demanding I fuck him I told him to "leave. NOW." When he came back the next day I also told him to leave.
At which point he either left, or you called security, I hope.

Quote:
Why don't you just come out and accuse me directly of leading him on? Which I didn't, by the way. I stopped being nice to him and he still came back the next day.
Stop with the strawman arguments. You took his number, he took that as a sign you wanted further contact. Which is reasonable on his part.


Quote:
And just how do you know whether or not I've suffered sexual abuse and/or rape in the past?
I didn't, and nor did I claim to.

Quote:
Anyone who has experience past sexual abuse and/or rape (woman or man) who found my posts offensive is welcome to state so directly - they don't need you to make that call for them. Unless you are among their number. Are you?
I've seen the devastating effect it's had on friends and loved ones. That's close enough to me for me to state how offensive I find you claiming what happened to you here is equivalent to rape. If you don't like that, tough, frankly.


Quote:
On the other hand, the man who many years ago grabbed me around the neck, hauled me into the bushes, and started ripping my clothes off did, in fact, start with "hitting on me" and when I continued to say no escalated up to force. Upon reflection, maybe that past incident is part of why this upset me so much, and why I felt so unclean.

To clarify - no, that didn't end in rape. It ended with my attacker curled up on the ground with a broken leg. That doesn't mean it didn't scare the shit out of me.
I'm sorry to hear that, genuinely. I can see why that would be terrifying.

I can also see why what happened to you the other day would remind you of it. That doesn't mean that there was any actual threat from him, or that you didn't overreact. That the overreaction may be justified doesn't change my opinion of his behaviour - which is that he was an arsehole, not a potential rapist.
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  #193  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:28 PM
Catfood Purrito Catfood Purrito is offline
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Originally Posted by secretsmile36 View Post
Just admit you were flattered.
Really? This stanky bowel movement of a thought plopped out from between the asscheeks behind where you store your brain, and you took a good, long look at it and thought, "yes! I am going to type that up, click the "preview post" button, bask in its glory some more, and then I'm going to go ahead and post that on the internet in reply to someone who just had a rather upsetting experience. What a jolly good plan!" Regardless of whether or not Broomstick overreacted, this is vile, and you are a vapid twit.
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  #194  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:29 PM
DiosaBellissima DiosaBellissima is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post

I'm sorry to hear that, genuinely. I can see why that would be terrifying.

I can also see why what happened to you the other day would remind you of it. That doesn't mean that there was any actual threat from him, or that you didn't overreact. That the overreaction may be justified doesn't change my opinion of his behaviour - which is that he was an arsehole, not a potential rapist.
So, we're only allowed to be scared by someone if they actually follow through with raping us? At what point then? Let's run through some events:

1.Guy hits on her.
Guy gets rejected.
2.Guy hits on her.
Guy gets rejected.
3. Guy hits on her again.
More rejection.
4. Guy more aggressively hits on her- being more overt that his intentions are sexual.
More rejection.
5. Guy grabs her around the neck.
She fights-- sort of a physical rejection.
6. Guy starts ripping off her clothes.
She fights back and screams for help. More rejection.
7. Guy sticks his dick in her.
She screams and tries to get away.


At what point in that paradigm is a woman allowed to be reasonably scared of the guy or see him as a threat/potential threat? Genuine question. I'm curious how we're supposed to know exactly when it's fair to judge Mr. Creeper.

Because as a 26 year old woman, I've had steps one through four happen to me countless times in my life. I've had step 5 happen no less than 5 or 6 times since puberty (alright, if we're counting grabbing my neck/jack and trying to violently pull me in for a kiss). I've had step 6 start to happen no less than 3 times. Fortunately, I've never actually been raped, but I'm still hyper aware of overly aggressive men who don't understand the word no.

Last edited by DiosaBellissima; 05-01-2012 at 06:32 PM..
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  #195  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:30 PM
Myrnalene Myrnalene is offline
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Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post
Separately, can someone tell me why every time someone says "Here's how you can deal with that situation," someone else has to come in and go "Ahhh, blaming the victim, I see. Dick!" Since when is advice on how to cope with adverse situations blaming anybody, much less victims?
In these hypothetical situations, did the person relaying the incident ask for advice on "how to deal with the situation"? If not, then it's not, "hey, since you need a suggestion, here's what you could do". It's, "why didn't you do this? I would have done that." If your "advice" falls into the latter category, than heyo guess what, you are a dick and that is victim blaming.

Also, for future reference - most women don't need advice from most men on how do deal with creepy dudes, seeing as how we are unfortunately in the position of having more experience with this issue. And Monday morning quaterbacking is even more infuriating when it's coming from someone who's never held a football.
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  #196  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:34 PM
DiosaBellissima DiosaBellissima is offline
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Originally Posted by Myrnalene View Post
Also, for future reference - most women don't need advice from most men on how do deal with creepy dudes, seeing as how we are unfortunately in the position of having more experience with this issue. And Monday morning quaterbacking is even more infuriating when it's coming from someone who's never held a football.
Beautifully said.
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  #197  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:53 PM
CrazyCatLady CrazyCatLady is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
Yes, she was overreacting. Yes, she will have people talk to her when she's doing her job in public, sometimes more than once, and there's a perfectly good way to get rid of someone who's being inappropriate - that is to tell them to leave, or get someone with the authority to do that, and the police if they refuse. Not continuing to be nice to them, then going home and feeling "unclean".

Also, don't mischaracterise my post with that last one. Plenty of women have had problems with rape and sexual abuse. Fortunately for her, Broomstick is not one of them, at least in this instance, and for her to compare herself to them is fucking offensive.

For that matter, for her to compare a man hitting on her to a potential rapist is also fucking offensive.
Yes, she is one of those women, and that guy IS a potential rapist. This guy won't accept that no means no, and isn't that pretty much what a rapist is? Yeah, odds are good he would back down before things got to the point of holding her down and fucking her while she screams and cries and begs for him to stop...but then again, the odds that he wouldn't back down before that are also pretty decent. The more times a guy ignores your no, the more likely it is things would play out the second way, and this guy has ignored her no at least three times. Once when she generally told him she wasn't interested, again when she told him she was married, again when she told him to leave her shop NOW.

This guy is scary as shit, and the fact that you don't see how scary he is frankly makes you just as scary.
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  #198  
Old 05-01-2012, 07:08 PM
Astroboy14 Astroboy14 is online now
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Jesus, what a trainwreck!
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  #199  
Old 05-01-2012, 07:12 PM
hamwater hamwater is offline
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Originally Posted by DiosaBellissima View Post
Why are you being such a stuck up bitch? You aren't that good looking anyway, you ugly bitch. Fat ass, lesbian bitch.



Oh, sorry. Thought you wanted the stereotypical responses you get after turning down a guy who has been hounding you.
Heh. A guy asked me to dance at a bar one night and when I said "No thank you", he said "Why are you being so picky? I'm not!"
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  #200  
Old 05-01-2012, 07:16 PM
secretsmile36 secretsmile36 is offline
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Originally Posted by Catfood Purrito View Post
Really? This stanky bowel movement of a thought plopped out from between the asscheeks behind where you store your brain, and you took a good, long look at it and thought, "yes! I am going to type that up, click the "preview post" button, bask in its glory some more, and then I'm going to go ahead and post that on the internet in reply to someone who just had a rather upsetting experience. What a jolly good plan!" Regardless of whether or not Broomstick overreacted, this is vile, and you are a vapid twit.

Oh shut the hell up dumb ass. Give me a fucking break. So a sleazy man hit on her. It's not the end of the damn world and frankly she's overreacting. That's if the incident even happended in the first place.
You stupid waste of space.
She probably should have posted this in another subforum where people could tell her everything she wants to hear. She posted it in the pit.
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