Ok, I'll do it (Twickster thread closing thread closed)

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Yes, I edited out his real life name. Which is routine here.

FWIW, I appreciate your kindness in looking after Quasi, to the extent that you can. I doubt anyone would disagree that, given both his history with the boards and his health issues, Quasi deserves the best that can be done for him. And I am glad you and the other mods are ready to give it.

Now back to the regularly scheduled kvetching.

Regards,
Shodan

[Loach]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

As to whether Quasi puts his real name in stuff elsewhere, I don't know. There's a gazillion posts a day and I do not see them all.

I do know we remove real life information and we discourage people from posting real life info.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=650726

I for one think you handled the Quasi issue perfectly. Not an easy issue to deal with. Removing the personal information is also the right call. But never edit another's post without making a note about why unless you want a shitstorm. When thread titles are changed I have always seen a note about it from a mod.

And I agree, that is some creepy shit.

Originally Posted by Enola Gay

1. I can't be the only one who's disappointed that this thread wasn't titled "Why was the "Why was the Twickster ATMB thread closed?" closed?"

2. I also think that there is no way to please everyone given the current rules. Being a mod here is kind of like being potus (without the secret service protection). No matter what you do or say, there will be a vocal minority who says "Wtf!! You should have done B instead of A, you moron!!!"; another vocal minority will defend the choice of A instead of B. And a silent majority who don't think it's that big of a deal or don't care.

3. I recall recently getting a mod note for calling someone a motherfucker in the pit (shit happens in the heat of the moment some times). Anyway I got the old "don't do this again"....which is exactly what Twickster did to herself for her transgression in the thread in question. Certainly, there are other cases where people have been issued official warnings for such language. Is it fair that some get warned, some get mere notes and some get completely overlooked? Nope, and neither is life. Get used to it.

4. AFAIK the rule against pitting mods was not made by mods, they are merely enforcing it. That said, I think it would solve the problem (and add to the entertainment value of this site as well). But I don't think that's their call to make.

5. All that said, it is obvious that I am not nearly as emotionally invested in this site as many others, so I'll STFU now.

1. Should be edited.

2. Certainly everyone will not be happy with a decision. But it seems that at least for the last few years whenever someone has a valid concern, big or small, it has been the policy to let the customers rant without answering their concerns in the hopes it will run out of steam and forget it. Not a good policy in my opinion.

3. Whether it be a note or a warning doen't concern me. Its the idea that a mod can mod herself does. The mod hat on and off thing can be tricky but it is usually handled pretty well. In this case another mod or admin should have jumped in. Since it didn't happen a quick note in any of these threads saying it should have happened and will in the future would have been enough for probably almost all who feel as I do. The first thread would have died a quick death and no drama.

4. I agreed with the rule. Any concerns about a mod can be brought up here. There is no need to call them names or spew venom. But the concerns should be addressed and not ignored in the hopes it will go away.

5. I am not emotionally invested either. The original Twat post stood out to me when I saw it. The response also did. I was not angry but it was clear to me that it was handled wrong. It was also such a clear violation of the rules that I can't explain why she didn't know better.

One reason why I felt comfortable here has been the moderation. For the most part fair and even handed. If things were different I would leave. But every now and then somethings should be addressed.

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by Shodan

FWIW, I appreciate your kindness in looking after Quasi, to the extent that you can. I doubt anyone would disagree that, given both his history with the boards and his health issues, Quasi deserves the best that can be done for him. And I am glad you and the other mods are ready to give it.

I actually totally agree with this.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

I actually totally agree with this.

I agree too.

It also indicates that a professional, rational, and considered approach to dealing with board-related issues is actually possible. Unfortunately, that approach seems only to be applied selectively.

[voltaire]

Originally Posted by Enola Gay

Being a mod here is kind of like being potus (without the secret service protection). No matter what you do or say, there will be a vocal minority who says "Wtf!! You should have done B instead of A, you moron!!!"; another vocal minority will defend the choice of A instead of B. And a silent majority who don't think it's that big of a deal or don't care.

It's much more akin to a condo board meeting, if you've ever been to one.

The biggest takeaway from this is that pitting moderation/moderators should be allowed. Then the mods in question can choose whether or not to participate in that, and the users get an appropriate place to vent, ad nauseam.

In general, ATMB threads should be a place where a person can always get an official response to an administrative question, and the threads should generally be as short and to the point as possible in order to keep a high signal/noise ratio.

This may sound harsh, but if a mod can't stand the heat of being pitted by the disgruntled, they should just get out of the kitchen. Haters gonna hate, whether it's in ATMB or elsewhere. Better it be in the Pit where it's most appropriate and won't get in the way of serious discussions.

[Enola Gay]

Never been to a condo board meeting, but the Quasi issue is a perfect example of why uneven, unfair, not following the rules to the letter, modding can be seen as perfect or terrible, depending on one’s perspective. Some have weighed in that they think Quasi should have been officially warned, extenuating circumstances or not. Others think it was handled “perfectly” by doing nothing.

These are judgment calls and as such are subject to the judge’s perspective on the circumstances at hand, the judge’s mood at the time, and many other variables. E.g. if you call me a motherfucker and Marley happens along (and he is in a piss poor mood because he just got a speeding ticket and notice of an IRS audit, not to mention you annoyed him in another thread with your veiled racist remarks) you might well get an official warning. If however, you call me a motherfucker right after Marley got a stellar blow job and is happily smoking a cigarette (and additionally he knows you’re in the midst of a nasty divorce), he might let you off easy. With humans involved on both sides, things can't (and shouldn't) always be treated in a black & white manner—it’s just the nature of the beast.

I guess I sympathize with the mods because I have school age children, so I am constantly hearing “How come I’m getting in trouble for X, when she did X yesterday and you didn’t say a thing! It isn’t fair!!!”

I am happy to modify my reply and allow the mods to use it “When you’re a moderator, you can be unfair”. In turn, I’m going to try their stonewalling tactic and see if works.

All that said, I do think if you have issues you need to express, then have at it (& feel free to unleash the “you're a brown-noser” replies). Not my intent is not to suck up nor to tell anyone they don't have the right to express their frustrations.... just trying to offer another perspective.

ETA: I am no way comparing people who complain about mod action to school children. The intent was to show that it is often impossible, unreasonable to expect rules to be applied exactly the same every time. Circumstances and human nature come in to play.

[Zeriel]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

I just looked for his name and removed it.

Last night I was trying to finish a piece of work and was not overly concerned with the board. That happens sometimes.

I. You are here now, and not addressing the situation at hand--even to deliver a "we are discussing it in the background and will inform you when there is consensus".

II. You are neither the only administrator nor the only moderator, so your limited availability is insufficient to explain the poor handling of this issue by the mod team.

[Zeriel]

Originally Posted by Enola Gay

I guess I sympathize with the mods because I have school age children, so I am constantly hearing “How come I’m getting in trouble for X, when she did X yesterday and you didn’t say a thing! It isn’t fair!!!”

Your children are children. Dopers, almost by definition (given the no-under-13 rule) and practically in the main, are not.

Also, if your children are able to point out examples of unfairness in your parenting that you are unable to reasonably explain, then perhaps it's not their complaints that are the real problem.

The issue in this situation is that a subset of dopers have given reasonable explanations for why they believe that A) mods should be held to a higher standard and B) twickster's actions are actionable and shouldn't be swept under the rug. When an adult to whom you are trying to sell a product and/or service offers you a reasonable, calm complaint, the absolute least you can do is make an attempt at a logical/reasonable explanation of the differences in the situation as you see them.

[TubaDiva]

It says right on the front page:

For all questions, comments, and complaints about the SDMB.

So this is the place.

We don't always respond to the complaints so readily. The reasons are varied, including not seeing the thread or the individual post.

Sometimes people just want to vent and we try to allow that. Posts that look like rants are best left alone. Nothing any of us can say to some of those posts would be suitable and would just open the door to more complaining. This includes postings that might usually draw a note or a warning -- in the heat of anger people say things they don't always mean and we try to give house room to that too.

If you have a grievance with a moderator this is the place to air that grievance. You'll have a much better chance of getting a response if you come in and speak in a civil manner. If you come iin all hot and pissy we're most likely to give you and the situation time to cool down.

Just because you have a perceived grievance does not mean that you can call up a moderator for a beating and they are obliged to show up for it. That's not how this works.

Moderation is a human job, done by humans who have to look at the entire situation and make the best call they can based on what they see. I think mostly we get it in the sweet spot. Sometimes we're off the mark. Occasionally we totally blow it. "Don't shoot the piano player; he is doing his best."

[TubaDiva]

Originally Posted by Zeriel

I. You are here now, and not addressing the situation at hand--even to deliver a "we are discussing it in the background and will inform you when there is consensus".

II. You are neither the only administrator nor the only moderator, so your limited availability is insufficient to explain the poor handling of this issue by the mod team.

Actually I'm here intermittently because I have an actual active messy real life and I'm also trying to earn a living. I'm not on this board 24/7 or anywheres near it.

I have no clue as to what the other staffers on this board were doing. We don't work assigned shifts. Like myself they have the same real life obligations that must be met as well as being here.

I'm sorry you feel we're not sufficient to your needs.

[Sierra Indigo]

Why is a moderator allowed to break the rules and then get out of it by moderating themself?

If long-term posters are held to a higher standard because they "should know better" then moderators should be held to a higher standard again, shouldn't they?

This question has been asked somewhere around a dozen times now, mostly in a calm manner, by a number of different people. Why is it being ignored?

[The Man With The Golden Gun]

While the moderation here isn't perfect, it is certainly a few miles ahead of every other message board I've ever been on. Seriously, go over to Something Awful and try complaining about the mods there. You'll be lucky if getting ignored is all that happens to you.

I know saying "It could be worse" isn't an excuse for the moderators here not being perfect, but I think it is an excuse that while they aren't perfect, they're doing as well as can be reasonably expected for an Internet message board. Are some mods here better than others? Hell yeah. This isn't ideal, but it's about as close to it as we can get. There is room for improvement even with the mods here, but I'd say most of the things I've read about in ATMB are pretty insignificant.

The moderators here are human, they will drop the ball sometimes, even fairly often, but that's going to happen no matter what board you're on.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

It says right on the front page:



So this is the place.

We don't always respond to the complaints so readily. The reasons are varied, including not seeing the thread or the individual post.

Sometimes people just want to vent and we try to allow that. Posts that look like rants are best left alone. Nothing any of us can say to some of those posts would be suitable and would just open the door to more complaining. This includes postings that might usually draw a note or a warning -- in the heat of anger people say things they don't always mean and we try to give house room to that too.

If you have a grievance with a moderator this is the place to air that grievance. You'll have a much better chance of getting a response if you come in and speak in a civil manner. If you come iin all hot and pissy we're most likely to give you and the situation time to cool down.

Just because you have a perceived grievance does not mean that you can call up a moderator for a beating and they are obliged to show up for it. That's not how this works.

Moderation is a human job, done by humans who have to look at the entire situation and make the best call they can based on what they see. I think mostly we get it in the sweet spot. Sometimes we're off the mark. Occasionally we totally blow it. "Don't shoot the piano player; he is doing his best."

So, if "this is the place", would you care to dive into the actual subject we're here to discuss instead of continually offering your vagueness?

For the third (or fourth, or fifth) time? Please?

[Munch]

So, still not willing to even address the issue that started 5 days ago? Is that the take away here?

I think mostly we get it in the sweet spot. Sometimes we're off the mark.

I would suggest that twickster is holding the bat upside down.

[MsWhatsit]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

I'm sorry you feel we're not sufficient to your needs.

Any apology that starts with "I'm sorry you feel" or "I'm sorry if" is worse than no apology at all. Really. I tell my kids this.

It seems to me that a lot of this entire mess could have been avoided with some early responses from the moderation team here, rather than radio silence for pages and days, followed by a non-apology and continued failure to actually respond to the questions being asked.

I think most of the mods here do a generally decent job, but stuff like this is just frankly bewildering.

[Munch]

Originally Posted by Garfield226

So, if "this is the place", <snip>

No, see - this is the place for "questions". It doesn't say anything about "answers".

[Morgenstern]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

It says right on the front page:

. . .
Just because you have a perceived grievance does not mean that you can call up a moderator for a beating and they are obliged to show up for it. That's not how this works.

. . .

I think if you took a minute to appreciate the view from the bottom floor you'd see the situation differently. When a mod is allowed to hide from a thread, even sheltered from it, we see a double standard. No one has asked for a ritual seppuku here. A simple claim of ownership and an apology might have put this fire out three threads ago.

[Enola Gay]

Originally Posted by Zeriel

Also, if your children are able to point out examples of unfairness in your parenting that you are unable to reasonably explain, then perhaps it's not their complaints that are the real problem.

Jimmy, is that you?? I already told you that when your sister ate the cookie before dinner and there were no consequences, I had just gotten a great (and I mean Grrrrrrrreat) pounding from Dad, so it didn't bother me much. I was in a good mood, sue me. But when you ate the cookie, I was PMSing and had just gotten off the phone with my that deranged Grandmother of yours . Besides, your room was mess, so the 'no dessert' thing was justified imo. And btw, when you're a mother, you can be mean.

In fairness, you may have missed my edit: ETA: I am no way comparing people who complain about mod action to school children. The intent was to show that it is often impossible, unreasonable to expect rules to be applied exactly the same every time. Circumstances and human nature come in to play.

[TubaDiva]

The first thread was closed because I thought the situation was resolved and the OP was done with it.

The second thread was closed because it had degenerated into uncivil behavior and nothing more.

[TubaDiva]

Originally Posted by Morgenstern

I think if you took a minute to appreciate the view from the bottom floor you'd see the situation differently. When a mod is allowed to hide from a thread, even sheltered from it, we see a double standard. No one has asked for a ritual seppuku here. A simple claim of ownership and an apology might have put this fire out three threads ago.

Who is hiding from what? I'm answering your questions.

[Sierra Indigo]

I don't think it's impossible or unreasonable to ask that moderators have their actions overseen as the rest of us do, and that they not be able to get away with breaking the rules with impunity if it's shortly followed up by a "Oh dear, I was so naughty, wasn't I. Don't do that again me" post, when other posters have been explicitly told they're being warned or modded because they're long-term posters and should know better.

[Sierra Indigo]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Who is hiding from what? I'm answering your questions.

No, you're not. You're still ignoring the question that lead, even indirectly, to this situation in the first place.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

The second thread was closed because it had degenerated into uncivil behavior and nothing more.

Since you didn't address my question the first time:

Do you think that when this sort of thing happens again in the future, you could, you know, moderate the discussion so that it doesn't "degenerate into uncivil behavior" and those of us who actually want to discuss things reasonably can do that? Is that a reasonable request?

I reported one of Quasi's posts. I don't, necessarily, think he needs to be warned or banned, but that sort of behavior isn't acceptable no matter who it's coming from or why. It derails the discussion and unless you rein it in, your only recourse is to close the thread. So, given that the purpose of a message board is for discussion, how about you take the action that promotes discussion rather than shuts it down?

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Who is hiding from what? I'm answering your questions.

Is it acceptable for a moderator to officially moderate his/her own posts?

[PlainJain]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

We don't always respond to the complaints so readily. The reasons are varied, including not seeing the thread or the individual post.

Sometimes people just want to vent and we try to allow that.

These threads have moved far afield of the original issue - Twix' behavior. I didn't agree that she should continue to act with distain towards posters nor be able to wave it away when she does.

That said, since I was one of the posters in the original thread I'd like to go on record as saying I do believe the board is moderated well overall and don't believe the administration is a joke. Even though I have occasionally grumbled, I have started a mod appreciation thread too. I have nothing against the other mods and Tuba has always been fair and courteous to me.

[Munch]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

The first thread was closed because I thought the situation was resolved and the OP was done with it.

That assumption was erroneous. Let's back up and address the first thread's OP. You may find that this whole matter will dissolve once you do that.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Who is hiding from what? I'm answering your questions.

For that matter, who closed the second thread?

Why was there no explanation of why the second thread was closed when it was closed?

[Zeriel]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Actually I'm here intermittently because I have an actual active messy real life and I'm also trying to earn a living. I'm not on this board 24/7 or anywheres near it.

Tuba, you've had time to address multiple issues that AREN'T the initial issue that started this kerfluffle. It is therefore nigh-impossible to believe that you lack the time to do so.

[Myrnalene]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Who is hiding from what? I'm answering your questions.

This is so patently untrue as to be laughable. You have ignored the same questions, asked multiple times, and have only addressed tangential issues or responded to those posts that allow you to practice your martyr act.

Please see posts 30, 49, 61, 70, 71, 73, 74, and 77 for a start. I'm not even going to go back into the other two threads to look for other examples of questions that have been ignored, because that's your fucking job. If not yours, then someone's.

We understand that you and the other modemins may have real life or other issues that preclude a quick resolution to issues like this. However, if those issues don't preclude you coming in here and posting cryptic non-responses, then that excuse becomes a little implausible. Just say you don't give a fuck what the posters here think, fer crying out loud. It would still be crappy moderation but at least it would be honest.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Who is hiding from what? I'm answering your questions.

I'll give you credit: you're very good at hanging around and explaining why you don't have time to hang around and explain.

You're just not very good at addressing the actual issues people have raised about moderation on these boards.

[TubaDiva]

Originally Posted by Garfield226

Is it acceptable for a moderator to officially moderate his/her own posts?

Sure, sometimes, why not?

If it's some huge egregious thing, maybe not.

If it's some huge egregious thing that they did while acting as a moderator, probably not.

If it's some minor thing that they did while in a personal capacity, I would think so.

[TubaDiva]

Originally Posted by Garfield226

For that matter, who closed the second thread?

Why was there no explanation of why the second thread was closed when it was closed?

I closed the second thread.

As I had warned earlier, I would close the thread if people continued banging on one another.

[Myrnalene]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

As I had warned earlier, I would close the thread if people continued banging on one another.

Did it occur to you that maybe the thread wouldn't go on and on and on and devolve into people "banging on each other" if you actually addressed and answered the points that people were bringing up?

[Blank Slate]

Who's on first?

[Loach]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Sure, sometimes, why not?

Because it is impossible to be unbiased. For the same reason why you would only get glowing reports if you did your own evaluations at work. And you would always be found not guilty if you were on your own jury.

[MsWhatsit]

Since Tuba seems unsure ("maybe", "probably", "I would think") I will go ahead and say that it is not a good idea to let moderators moderate their own posts. And if there is a moderator whose posts need to be moderated on a more than extremely occasional basis, probably that person isn't the best choice for a moderator anyway.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally Posted by Sierra Indigo

Why is a moderator allowed to break the rules and then get out of it by moderating themself?

If long-term posters are held to a higher standard because they "should know better" then moderators should be held to a higher standard again, shouldn't they?

About two years ago I dropped both the 'F' and the 'C' bomb in MPSIMS.

In fact, I told another poster to go 'f' themselves and then called them an obnoxious 'c'. *

I think both of those things are probably worse than calling someone a twat. My particular situation was handled just about exactly the way this one has been handled - a mild slap on the wrist. My point is, I'm not sure this particular situation has really been handled all that differently than if it had been a long-time poster who made the gaff.

Really, all these threads seem like much ado about nothing. Well, they would have been but there was the whole internet stalking thing, f-bomb dropping thing, accusations of this that and the other thing, etc. So, this part could have probably been dealt with a bit better; however, the original 'offense' is so minor I'm a bit mystified by all the uproar in the first place.


*Most satisfying post I've ever made on here.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Sure, sometimes, why not?

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

As I had warned earlier, I would close the thread if people continued banging on one another.

This is not an answer to the question I asked.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland

My particular situation was handled just about exactly the way this one has been handled - a mild slap on the wrist.

So you slapped yourself on the wrist, then?

Oh, no? You mean it was another person who looked at your post and decided it broke the rules, and then let you know you broke the rules and asked you not to do it again?

Yeah, same thing.

[Idle Thoughts]

Here's my two cents as a mod regarding the situation that started all of this:

1. I would have given Twickster a note as well over her post. My decision to make anything a note or a warning has many different factors that contribute to it, one of the biggest ones being: Does this poster have a history of doing this type of thing and making these type of posts? Since in Twickster's case (insulting members outside of the Pit) this would have been a "no", I would have went with a note only, not a warning.

2. However, by the time I saw the post, the mod in question already had a note issued (by herself, no less). You may disagree with mods being able to do that, but it was still a note, nonetheless...so having another mod come in and make a note on top of that would have been--IMO--redundant.

3. Now you may disagree that the post in question merits more than just a note, but that's really a decision that comes down to the mod on at the time. Some may give you a warning..some may just give you a note. Seems to me like some posters who are more likely to find fault with mod decisions would call this "inconsistency", but I really don't see it. I think what it is, more, is the fact that the mods are all different people and are prone to having their own minds and making difference choices in different situations as another mod might.
Me (as I said in point 1), I would have just given her a note for that.
I would have given ANYONE (I.E. if it wasn't Twickster) a note for that post (again, as long as it wasn't something the poster did all the time--other factors may apply sometimes--and no, I'm not going to list them all).

As it is...the mod did get a note for it.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland

I think both of those things are probably worse than calling someone a twat. My particular situation was handled just about exactly the way this one has been handled - a mild slap on the wrist. My point is, I'm not sure this particular situation has really been handled all that differently than if it had been a long-time poster who made the gaff.

I think, as a matter of general principle, you're right. I've seen plenty of times when people have stepped over the line in non-Pit threads and simply been told to cool off. As you say, a mild slap on the wrist.

A while back, i made an inappropriate post in an MPSIMS thread because i was posting in multiple threads and forgot that this particular thread was not in the Pit. I realized my error, reported my post, and made an apology for my mistake, and everything was fine. Here's what i actually said once i realized what i had done:

Originally Posted by mhendo

Crap!

I've been jumping back and forth between forums, and i was sure this thread was in the Pit. I only realized that it was in MPSIMS after the edit window had closed, so i couldn't fix my post.

Apologies to the mods and to lindsaybluth. My argument stands, but i apologize for and retract the insults.

That's actually the thing that gets me most about this whole situation. I'm not arguing that twickster should get anything more than a slap on the wrist for this. What i'm arguing is that the whole thing was handled poorly from the start. Here's what twickster wrote when she realized that she had insulted someone outside the Pit:

Originally Posted by twickster

[mod]twickster, you know better than to call another poster a twat in an MPSIMS thread -- and, yes, saying that he or she is "coming across as a twat" amounts to saying he or she is a twat. Don't do this again.

No warning issued.[/mod]

This sort of self-admonition just comes across as disingenuous and insincere. What would have been far more appropriate is a simple and genuine apology for the fuck-up.

Here's what a reasonable moderator might have said under similar circumstances.

I just realized that i called someone a twat in an MPSIMS thread. I forgot what forum we were in, and posted an inappropriate insult.

I'm sorry to everyone for doing that; as a moderator, i should follow the rules. And i'm sorry to living_in_hell for insulting her.

If twickster had posted something like that, i would have shrugged, put it down to the sort of mistake that plenty of people have made in the past, and moved on. Simple, really.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

As it is...the mod did get a note for it.

But couldn't even muster up the integrity to offer a simple apology for breaking the very rules that she's charged with enforcing.

As i said, i think a note, under these circumstances, was perfectly appropriate. I was more annoyed by the shrug-it-off attitude that she evinced, and surely you see why giving oneself a note might be perceived as somehow inappropriate. Maybe i'll become a cop, and then let myself off with a warning every time i break the rules.

[Morgenstern]

Originally Posted by mhendo

But couldn't even muster up the integrity to offer a simple apology for breaking the very rules that she's charged with enforcing.

. . .

And that is the elephant in the room. This will really never go away, even if it dies down, the next time she's called out in ATMB, this will be brought up. The logical answer is for her to step up, own the situation, and set it straight.

[Rachellelogram]

What's wrong with a little goddamn transparency? Why, when asked a direct question, is it not answered? This is a message board, not a fucking missile silo or state secret. If what Twickster did is acceptable, and clearly it is because she's still a moderator, then just say so. The moderators here can't possibly damn themselves further with an answer than they've already done with their silence.

Think of it as a relationship. If this is the direction the relationship between mods and pubbies is heading in, we deserve to know. We deserve to be informed so we can decide whether we want to accept you with all your lovable (if increasingly ridiculous) faults, or break up once and for all.

[cochrane]

Originally Posted by mhendo

That's actually the thing that gets me most about this whole situation. I'm not arguing that twickster should get anything more than a slap on the wrist for this. What i'm arguing is that the whole thing was handled poorly from the start. Here's what twickster wrote when she realized that she had insulted someone outside the Pit:

This sort of self-admonition just comes across as disingenuous and insincere. What would have been far more appropriate is a simple and genuine apology for the fuck-up.

Here's what a reasonable moderator might have said under similar circumstances.

If twickster had posted something like that, i would have shrugged, put it down to the sort of mistake that plenty of people have made in the past, and moved on. Simple, really.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, and usually don't have any complaints about the moderation, but I do agree that twickster's note on herself came across as insincere and snarky. If she had posted a genuine apology owning up to her error, either in the original thread, or in living_in_hell's ATMB thread instead of hiding or ignoring it, this entire three-thread shitstorm could have been avoided.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally Posted by mhendo

Here's what a reasonable moderator might have said under similar circumstances.If twickster had posted something like that, i would have shrugged, put it down to the sort of mistake that plenty of people have made in the past, and moved on. Simple, really.

I agree with this completely. I thought twickster was having a bit of fun; however, given that many do seem to take this stuff really seriously, an apology for breaking the rules would have been better.

FWIW, I came back and apologized - not to the poster I called a 'c' - but for breaking forum rules.

[Zeriel]

Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland

I agree with this completely. I thought twickster was having a bit of fun; however, given that many do seem to take this stuff really seriously, an apology for breaking the rules would have been better.

Especially coming from twickster. She should be aware that she has a reputation (right or wrong) for getting emotionally over-involved in a limited subset of topics and moderating/posting inappropriately, making "having a bit of fun" come across as anything but.

FWIW, I came back and apologized - not to the poster I called a 'c' - but for breaking forum rules.

This is exactly what I did when I was Warned for calling a poster an asshole in GD--and it's the minimum standard of behavior I'd expect for someone who's a moderator. As with the police in the real world, I absolutely expect that the enforcers of the rules are to be held to much higher standards than those who do not have that power.

[TubaDiva]

Originally Posted by mhendo

But couldn't even muster up the integrity to offer a simple apology for breaking the very rules that she's charged with enforcing.

As i said, i think a note, under these circumstances, was perfectly appropriate. I was more annoyed by the shrug-it-off attitude that she evinced, and surely you see why giving oneself a note might be perceived as somehow inappropriate. Maybe i'll become a cop, and then let myself off with a warning every time i break the rules.

She made an error.

She caught herself in it.

She got what anyone else would have gotten for it.

Should some other staffer have issued the rebuke? Yeah, probably. In hindsight, that would have been the better way to go. In future we will ask any staffer who transgresses to bring the issue to the mod loop for handling.

If this had happened between two posters -- and that sort of situation happens around here on a regular basis, it's not unusual -- it wouldn't even have registered. It was a statement made not as a moderator but as regular ol' poster. Moderators are entitled to be regular ol' posters sometimes, or should be. Moderators are people too, and have feelings, and react to things, and do sometimes good things and sometimes make mistakes.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

She made an error.

She caught herself in it.

She got what anyone else would have gotten for it.

Should some other staffer have issued the rebuke? Yeah, probably. In hindsight, that would have been the better way to go. In future we will ask any staffer who transgresses to bring the issue to the mod loop for handling.

If this had happened between two posters -- and that sort of situation happens around here on a regular basis, it's not unusual -- it wouldn't even have registered. It was a statement made not as a moderator but as regular ol' poster. Moderators are entitled to be regular ol' posters sometimes, or should be. Moderators are people too, and have feelings, and react to things, and do sometimes good things and sometimes make mistakes.

If you had made this post 2 threads ago I don't think there would have been a stink made about it. IMHO the bolded part is a good way of handling it.