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  #51  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:10 PM
Sierra Indigo Sierra Indigo is offline
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His employer pays for half of his internet cost. So how on EARTH can it be cheaper to have cable and internet than just internet alone, when 50% of the internet cost is eaten by his bosses?
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  #52  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:17 PM
armedmonkey armedmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher View Post
Any monies from Dopers that go unused will be returned, any other monies from Dopers can be repaid toward the end of next month.
As I said in the other thread, you can finance it! Heating and cooling systems. 18 months, no interest. You shouldn't take a single dollar from other dopers. You shouldn't even take the 2 tenths of a penny that the OP is offering.

Fucking A, you are a piece of shit.
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  #53  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:23 PM
LavenderBlue LavenderBlue is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
I'm sorry-"one of my retirement plans"?
One of them is for the bunny.
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  #54  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:24 PM
The Man With The Golden Gun The Man With The Golden Gun is offline
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I think all of the active members of the SDMB should donate to Lute.

Namely, two tenths of a cent.

With 7,175 active members, that works out to *opens calculator app* a whopping $14.35.

You could still buy a fan from Wal-Mart for less than that, though. But I don't think this guy deserves that much, so let's not.
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  #55  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:30 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher View Post
This is all I'm saying here on the subject:
Good. That means we don't have to hear really stupid excuses from you.

Why would you beg for money from us before waiting to hear back from your sister? Is the heat in your condo that bad that you couldn't have just waited a few hours before passing the hat around here? I'd like to think that you would have come forward about your sister's assistance whether or not you had caught any flak, but I'm not sure. There's nothing about refunding donations in the OP. And I'm not even sure why anyone should trust that they will be one of the lucky ones who receive a refund.

I wouldn't have donated to you anyway, so maybe I have no right to comment. But you've put people in an awkward position. By not disclosing certain information (and then later revealing it like it's no big deal), you're putting generous people in a situation where they will feel compelled to give to someone only because they gave their word and don't want to spaz on a promise. Those people should maybe grow a pair, but generous people often think more with their hearts than with their "pairs". This is the kind of shit that makes giving to others hard to do.
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  #56  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:41 PM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancia View Post
I rarely post in the Pit, but this dude has me royally pissed off.

I, too am mystified as to just how in hell the mods allowed Lute Skywatcher to post that thread.

Lute,, listen up. Iím a husband and father of two. I work part time as a hospice worker, my wife works part time as a preschool teacher. Both of us are full-time college students.

So, between us we make less than an one 40/wk job earning minimum wage, which in Oregon is $8.80/hr. Between school and work we are away from home approx. 60 hrs a week each.

Despite this, we: A) pay our bills on time, B) have no debt except some small medical bills, and manage to do this C) without accepting handouts from friends/family/strangers/charity. How? We have no cable TV. We have no internet connection (use public or school library or public wifi). We have basic cellular phone service and do not have a landline. We have not seen the inside of real restaurant in several years. For that matter we havenít seen the inside of a cheap fast food joint in several years. Its sandwiches and cold cereal or you donít eat. Beans and rice, cooked at home. Lotsa veggies which are cheap and healthy to boot. We do not have car payments and pay for bare-bones insurance. Like most poor families, our daycare needs are met by generous family members (I guess you could call that family charity) or a local YMCA-type nonprofit childcare center.

In fact, I started a thread here some time ago asking car-savvy dopers if I should junk my old POS car or replace. Two pages of replies said overwhelmingly that I needed a new car. Well, that old POS is still in the driveway. See, I donít have money for a new car, despite the fact that it would be exponentially safer for my two boys, age 5 and 8, to ride in a much newer vehicle. What little I had saved had to go to a doctorís bill. Did I mention I have to drive them approx. 20 miles to school each day? Yeah. But guess what? I never came here asking for money for a new car so my kids would be safe. But youíre here asking for a shitload of money for goddamn central air so your fluffy little bunnies can stay cool. $3000 would get my boys into a nice, safe car. Give me fucking break. (Not that Iím against fluffy bunnies. But perhaps [not perhaps. Almost certainly] they need to be living with someone who does not need to panhandle to be able to take care of them.)

You said you worked. Good. Take some time, work some overtime, and save up the money you need. Or, dip into your savings, then use your next three months of overtime to replace those lost funds. Quit yer fuckiní begging on the streetcorner, especially since youíve made it clear that you have the financial means at your disposal to repair your AC.
Just wanted to quote this again and say that you're awesome.
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  #57  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:50 PM
Cat Whisperer Cat Whisperer is offline
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Originally Posted by ntucker View Post
I've suddenly realized that I should be very angry at my brother.
I'm angry at your brother too! That jerk!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroboy14 View Post
I got nailed hard with taxes this year... my options are:

1)take all friggin' year paying them off.
2)sell my car and walk to work (about 23 miles one way).
3)get someone online to send me a whole whack of money...

So anyone wanna send me a check? :P
I have to pay a whole whack of money to pay for my cat's teeth fixin' - who wants to send me money? We can afford it - I just don't want to pay for it.
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  #58  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:52 PM
Who_me? Who_me? is offline
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I'm sorry to be the dissenting voice here, but I don't think it's that big a deal. Many of us know first hand how it feels to unexpectantly feel the crush of (what to your mind is) a serious financial emergency, I know I have. You rack your brain and consider many things you never thought you'd ever be considering. You just want the crisis to be over and almost every option is on the table.

I came this ---> <--- close to selling my grandfather's railroad watch that is the only thing I have to remember him by. Luckily other options came through and I got through it. If my financial situation was more stable, I would have probably sent Lute a check, not because it was a life or death situation, but just because it would be a nice thing to do for someone whose posts I've read for years. If I got paid back, great... if not, oh well. I've done the same in the past and have never come to regret it. Sometimes I get paid back, sometimes not. I never send any more than I can afford to lose.

I do understand that many people got upset by it, I'm just not one of them. I would never have posted the request for money myself as I'm not one of the board regulars but Lute is. I'm glad he got what he needed and that his crisis has been averted. Just because his situation didn't seem a crisis to you doesn't mean that it didn't seem that way to him.

Last edited by Who_me?; 05-15-2012 at 07:56 PM.. Reason: Sometimes I hate posting from my phone
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  #59  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:00 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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The thing is that board solicitations are a rarity, and when we see them we usually assume that it's an actual crisis. Not a "oh crap, I'm gonna have to invest in some box fans this summer!" kind of crisis. But a "I'm gonna have to sleep on a park bench with my five-year-old child who's dying of a terminal illness...which I have too" kind of crisis.

If people start begging for charity for their about first world problems, their wails will drown out those who are really in need.
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  #60  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:02 PM
coolbyrne coolbyrne is offline
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Originally Posted by Who_me? View Post
I'm sorry to be the dissenting voice here, but I don't think it's that big a deal. Many of us know first hand how it feels to unexpectantly feel the crush of (what to your mind is) a serious financial emergency, I know I have. You rack your brain and consider many things you never thought you'd ever be considering. You just want the crisis to be over and almost every option is on the table.

I came this ---> <--- close to selling my grandfather's railroad watch that is the only thing I have to remember him by. Luckily other options came through and I got through it. If my financial situation was more stable, I would have probably sent Lute a check, not because it was a life or death situation, but just because it would be a nice thing to do for someone whose posts I've read for years. If I got paid back, great... if not, oh well. I've done the same in the past and have never come to regret it. Sometimes I get paid back, sometimes not. I never send any more than I can afford to lose.

I do understand that many people got upset by it, I'm just not one of them. I would never have posted the request for money myself as I'm not one of the board regulars but Lute is. I'm glad he got what he needed and that his crisis has been averted. Just because his situation didn't seem a crisis to you doesn't mean that it didn't seem that way to him.
The difference is, Lute already had options on the table; he was just adding begging on the SDMB to his options. That's what is upsetting a lot of people.
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  #61  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:07 PM
armedmonkey armedmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by Who_me? View Post
Just because his situation didn't seem a crisis to you doesn't mean that it didn't seem that way to him.
What I think most people are pissed at is not that he was overestimating the "crisis", but that he has the financial ability to pay for it,, knows that, and yet is still asking for money. Consider: he's employed, a homeowner, has multiple retirement accounts, has an unnamed asset that he hasn't touched in 18 years, and vendor based financing for a new air conditioner is available. He's got far more financial options than most people do, but the guy isn't even trying to pay for it himself. That's what people are pissed about.
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  #62  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:07 PM
Who_me? Who_me? is offline
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Originally Posted by coolbyrne View Post
The difference is, Lute already had options on the table; he was just adding begging on the SDMB to his options. That's what is upsetting a lot of people.
I understand all that and I'm not saying that the people who are upset are in the wrong to be upset, just that I'm not and posted my view of it.
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  #63  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:26 PM
Spud Spud is offline
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You guys just don't get it... don't you understand, he has bunnies and birds and they can't possible survive temperatures over 90 degrees. That is exactly why you never see any rabbits or birds outside in the summer... oh... um... sorry.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who went WTF!?! when I read the OP.
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  #64  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:26 PM
Astroboy14 Astroboy14 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer View Post
I have to pay a whole whack of money to pay for my cat's teeth fixin' - who wants to send me money? We can afford it - I just don't want to pay for it.
If someone sends me a large enough whack o' money, I can pay off my taxes, send you some cash for the kitty's tooths... and maybe some left over for hookers and blow!!

Won't someone think of Astroboy?
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  #65  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:30 PM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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Originally Posted by Astroboy14 View Post
If someone sends me a large enough whack o' money, I can pay off my taxes, send you some cash for the kitty's tooths... and maybe some left over for hookers and blow!!

Won't someone think of Astroboy?
You, sir, have your priorities exactly backwards.
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  #66  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:36 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is online now
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How soon until your membership lapses? Let that go.
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  #67  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:38 PM
not what you'd expect not what you'd expect is offline
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I too like to help when there is a need. I didn't have time to donate anything this morning because I had to leave for work a little early. I hate to say it, but I'm glad it worked out that way. I'd be feeling quite duped right now.

I just had to dip into my retirement funds. I hate that it is going to cost me a 10% penalty, but that's just the breaks. I would never have come here and asked you guys to give me money so I wouldn't have to touch my own. I'm just flabbergasted.
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  #68  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:54 PM
Enola Gay Enola Gay is offline
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I'm starting to regret sending Fenris that $900 check for his new 64 gig iPad 3. I mean not having an iPad 3 may not seem like a crisis to some of you, but it is certainly a crisis for Fenris and I didn't want him to have to dip into his inheritance or one of his many trust funds.

I do , however, hope that he appreciates the generosity of dopers and that any monies that go unused will be returned by the end of next month and won't be applied to that Diamond Encrusted Bluetooth Headset he's had his eye on.
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  #69  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:56 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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One of them is for the bunny.
It's a 401b.
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  #70  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:01 PM
that_darn_cat that_darn_cat is offline
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Thassa big bunny, mister.

Last edited by that_darn_cat; 05-15-2012 at 09:01 PM..
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  #71  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:11 PM
Faruiza Faruiza is offline
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Anybody who thinks they can argue that this bullshit is an emergency is an absolute pussy. Begging for money from a community (that WILL give it just based on your inclusion in that community) just so you don't have to spend your own is the lowest, most classless, selfish, entitled, heinous act I've witnessed here. People say horrible, crazy things here all the time...DOING something this depraved, well, that's just beyond.

And another thing, if you have looked at this thread and can't figure out what we're on about, and you don't feel the sting of shame at showing your ass to a stadium full of spectators, you are even worse off than I can imagine.
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  #72  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:21 PM
SpaceDog SpaceDog is offline
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What amazes me is that he had the balls to tell the truth (about the reason, the other options and the backup plan). Presuming he is telling the whole truth it, at least, doesn't seem like he's out to scam people. He was open and honest about wanting money, and the reasons why -- he just has unreasonable expectations.

A scam would have been to post moaning about his lack of AC, his lack of funds and his boiling bunny and wait for the donations to roll in.

So yeah, it was completely inappropriate to do that, but I think you might be being a bit harsh on the guy. He just has his priorities fucked up, or has less of an issue begging for money than some other people.
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  #73  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:22 PM
Sierra Indigo Sierra Indigo is offline
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Oh look at that, the OP requested the thread be closed. Perhaps you should have finished begging your family before trying to rort other posters you lying son of a bitch.
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  #74  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:25 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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FTR, I am a little fucked in the head and the thread was going to be closed anyway. Got the notice four hours earlier.
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  #75  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:26 PM
jsgoddess jsgoddess is online now
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Originally Posted by Sierra Indigo View Post
Oh look at that, the OP requested the thread be closed. Perhaps you should have finished begging your family before trying to rort other posters you lying son of a bitch.
It's extremely rare for me to report a post, but I also reported the thread and asked that it be closed. I was afraid someone might donate without reading the whole thread.
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  #76  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:31 PM
Sierra Indigo Sierra Indigo is offline
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The mod note said it was closed for 2 reasons, one because the OP had asked for it to be and 2 because the request for money should have been more seriously considered before being granted apparently.

According to the mod notes, other posters reporting it didn't get a look-in.
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  #77  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:38 PM
Idle Thoughts Idle Thoughts is offline
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Moderator Note

Just for the record and to make it clear (in case it isn't): The topic would have been closed at the time it was (or even earlier had I been on) even without the OP requesting it.
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  #78  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:39 PM
GrandWino GrandWino is online now
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It's extremely rare for me to report a post, but I also reported the thread and asked that it be closed. I was afraid someone might donate without reading the whole thread.
I did as well, suggesting it was approved without full disclosure to the mods.
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  #79  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:42 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is online now
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Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher View Post
FTR, I am a little fucked in the head and the thread was going to be closed anyway. Got the notice four hours earlier.
Huh. Sounds like you realize it was a bad idea, and more power to you for realizing that.

Rather than let us know that by making an excuse for your bad idea, though, you might be better off saying something like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginary Lute
Okay, guys. Sometimes I have a bout of the crazy, and it looks like this was one of those times. When I was posting, things seemed huge and out of control and I couldn't imagine how to deal with life, and asking for help just seemed like the right thing to do. But I've read what y'all have written, and you're right: it wasn't a reasonable request.

So, folks who have donated money, I'm sending it back, with an apology. Folks who read my post and were outraged at it, given their own circumstances, I'm sorry; I was in the wrong. Folks engaging in recreational outrage can kiss my ass.
Something along those lines might be good.
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  #80  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:45 PM
jsgoddess jsgoddess is online now
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Recreational outrage would be complaining here about someone mooching on SomethingAwful.
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  #81  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:46 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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So now it will be more difficult for someone in actual need to ask for help. Congrats Lute.
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  #82  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:56 PM
Myrnalene Myrnalene is offline
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Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher View Post
FTR, I am a little fucked in the head and the thread was going to be closed anyway. Got the notice four hours earlier.
I am sorry to hear about your mental illness and I sincerely hope you feel better soon.

But fuck you for bringing it up in this thread to deflect criticism from your asking people for money for a luxury item so you don't have to tap into "one of" your retirement accounts.
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  #83  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:08 PM
keturah keturah is offline
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Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher View Post
FTR, I am a little fucked in the head and the thread was going to be closed anyway. Got the notice four hours earlier.
You should maybe revisit the whole "I don't need to be medicated" idea. Seriously.
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  #84  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:10 PM
The Man With The Golden Gun The Man With The Golden Gun is offline
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Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher View Post
FTR, I am a little fucked in the head and the thread was going to be closed anyway. Got the notice four hours earlier.
I'm sorry that you have that illness, I suffer from bipolar disorder pretty badly myself, so I think I'm every bit as qualified as you to say whether this was a good idea or not.

I've done two psych ward stays in the past month and half, I've been on meds for over a decade, I have had suicidal thoughts for a long time and I can't sure for certain that I've seen the last of them, and I have the manic insanity to boot. Not to mention that I am a good deal more strapped for cash right now than you are.

And you know something? I still wouldn't have ever dreamed in a million years of pulling something like this.

I'm not saying you're a scammer (if you were you'd be the most incompetent one I'd ever seen), and I don't think you're just a scumbag looking for a free handout. I do think, if what you posted there is true, that your mental problems are severely affecting your judgment and that you need to seek some serious psychiatric help for them. That would be an infinitely better use of your money than keeping your rabbit cool.

Last edited by The Man With The Golden Gun; 05-15-2012 at 10:11 PM..
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  #85  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:14 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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My dysthymia is outraged.
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  #86  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:16 PM
dnooman dnooman is offline
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My first reaction to the original thread was "This dude wants money, has a sob story, and is gonna get some cash from sympathetic Dopers". I thought the thread would drop like a rock due to the lack of any real hardship going on. That did not happen.

If I ever exhausted my own resources (savings, retirement, personal loans, piggy bank, stealing from children) and still had an overwhelming financial hurdle to overcome, I'd ask for advice or maybe compensated assistance, but not cash.

To quote Sierra Indigo "Begging for cash when you've got other resources is absolutely shameful and an abuse of the good nature of people who want to help."

That sums up my thoughts pretty well.

The guy does have a fucked up priority list when soliciting cash from an online group of caring individuals comes before buying a $10 fan to keep his pets alive. Perhaps sell something from "a few thousand dollars' worth of electronics, some of which are on loan from my employer."

You really Pariah'd yourself good.
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  #87  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:18 PM
I_Know_Nothing I_Know_Nothing is offline
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I started at like wtf

then I was like omfg I'm pissed is he for real

then I'm totally like lmfao at the replies

to now I'm like OK dudes let's just chill out.


Kind of dumb request...an apology would have most people back on your side I think. I'm sure linking to your mental illness was an attempt at an explanation, it just didn't come across that way. Give it another shot. Best of luck.
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  #88  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:22 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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I started at like wtf

then I was like omfg I'm pissed is he for real

then I'm totally like lmfao at the replies

to now I'm like OK dudes let's just chill out.


Kind of dumb request...an apology would have most people back on your side I think. I'm sure linking to your mental illness was an attempt at an explanation, it just didn't come across that way. Give it another shot. Best of luck.
ROTFLMAO

Lute, just relax and take it easy for the night. Everything will be better tomorrow. Few will remember any of this days from now. When I step in it real good, I just try to think of it as a lesson learned. We live and we learn, as an old boss of mine used to say.
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  #89  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:26 PM
Rachellelogram Rachellelogram is offline
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Recreational outrage would be complaining here about someone mooching on SomethingAwful.
If only we could buy Lute a big red custom title, after this bullshit. Hell, I'd pay at least $30 to ensure nobody ever forgot about it.
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  #90  
Old 05-15-2012, 11:04 PM
Farmer Jane Farmer Jane is offline
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I would've given, but then I saw how he maybe had money and didn't want to touch it. That made me feel like a dipshit. I have little in extra funds and I'd always do that first.

I do know what it's like to not have a/c. Some people are more sensitive than others. I am. My a/c kept breaking last summer before they finally replaced it and there were times where it climbed to 90 degrees in here (with fans and etc) and our living room faces west. We would have to leave to the mall just so we wouldn't sweat and pant. I just hate the heat. I'm a baby. I admit it. My kid also has asthma and was miserable. Liveable, but really killed the summer. I was exhausted, felt sticky, couldn't stay cool, couldn't sleep well, didn't want to drink enough water. Ugh. <shudder>

So I was all ready to donate and now I know he doesn't need it (maybe never really did) and it makes me sad. Am I that easy of a target?
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  #91  
Old 05-15-2012, 11:39 PM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
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When they took my hamster's air conditioner away, I said nothing.

Then they took my rabbit's air conditioner away, and still I said nothing.

Oops, I didn't! I bitched and moaned about sweaty rodents.
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  #92  
Old 05-15-2012, 11:42 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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Rabbits aren't rodents.
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  #93  
Old 05-15-2012, 11:45 PM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Am I that easy of a target?
Don't, okay? A name change doesn't erase everyone's memory. Let's not even pretend you're a naive girl who doesn't know how the internet works. You know, it's been documented.

Also, don't take this moment of infamy from Lute. You had yours.
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  #94  
Old 05-15-2012, 11:51 PM
Farmer Jane Farmer Jane is offline
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Don't, okay? A name change doesn't erase everyone's memory. Let's not even pretend you're a naive girl who doesn't know how the internet works. You know, it's been documented.

Also, don't take this moment of infamy from Lute. You had yours.
I've never asked for money on the Dope, nor have I taken it when offered. It's been documented. If you think something's wrong with me because I'm generous, well, okay then.

Last edited by Farmer Jane; 05-15-2012 at 11:52 PM..
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  #95  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:00 AM
Astroboy14 Astroboy14 is offline
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So I've spent the past few hours squatting in the mud by the mailbox.

Did I receive any checks to relieve my lack of hookers and blow... err, I mean tax problems? I did not.

You pack of unspeakable bastards.
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  #96  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:03 AM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Jane View Post
I've never asked for money on the Dope, nor have I taken it when offered. It's been documented. If you think something's wrong with me because I'm generous, well, okay then.
I think there's plenty wrong with you, but don't think I'm labeling you generous. Reread what I wrote. Now, I'm done with you.

Last edited by Sleeps With Butterflies; 05-16-2012 at 12:03 AM..
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  #97  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:27 AM
florez florez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Jane View Post
I've never asked for money on the Dope, nor have I taken it when offered. It's been documented. If you think something's wrong with me because I'm generous, well, okay then.
O.....M.....G
O.....M.....G
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  #98  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:35 AM
The Man With The Golden Gun The Man With The Golden Gun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeps With Butterflies View Post
I think there's plenty wrong with you, but don't think I'm labeling you generous. Reread what I wrote. Now, I'm done with you.
Someone care to fill me in on what this whole Farmer Jane thing's about?

Last edited by The Man With The Golden Gun; 05-16-2012 at 12:36 AM..
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  #99  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:38 AM
armedmonkey armedmonkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroboy14 View Post
So I've spent the past few hours squatting in the mud by the mailbox.

Did I receive any checks to relieve my lack of hookers and blow... err, I mean tax problems? I did not.

You pack of unspeakable bastards.
I resent that. I will have you know that I am a very, very speakable bastard. People are constantly saying to me, "Monkey, I have to speak up. You're a bastard" or "We need to speak about you being a bastard", or "Jesus, monkey, every time you speak you become more and more of a bastard"

"Unspeakable" bastard? Sir, I think not.
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  #100  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:41 AM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2008
<pulls up lawnchair>

Anybody have popcorn?



(Astroboy14, I was going to head out to pop a check in the mail, but my car broke down. I need about 4 grand to fix it (and get some new speakers put in), so I'm hoping you can send me some of the extra cash you have lying around.)
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