Should I date a devoté?

[umkay]

Originally Posted by umkay

UPDATE: Mr. Devotee just called and asked me to dinner like, now. I intend to get some questions answered. I'll let you all know how it gooooeees...

All right, y'all, here's the scoop!

Mr. D came to my place and picked me up this evening. I was actually a little nervous to see him, since I hadn't heard from him since his little confession. We hung out at my place for a bit and just chatted before leaving for dinner. It actually felt really comfortable to talk to him, not awkward like I had assumed it would be.

He drove my van to dinner, which he seemed totally cool with. Once we arrived, I opened up the topic I assumed was on both of our minds pretty quickly. If it was going to get weird, I wanted it to happen before we ordered and I didn't want him feeding me if I discerned he was a freak and was going to go in his pants over it or something. (I wasn't worried about my physical safety or anything--this is a guy who has worked with my brother and been friends with him for some time now...and my brother knew I was out with him).

Right away, he told me he felt really bad dropping that info on me while he was buzzed. He spent the last few days feeling like a tool and assumed I thought he was one, too. I told him I wouldn't be out with him if I thought he was a tool, but I was really curious about what he had told me. He told me I could ask him anything, so I did.

The first thing I asked him was how he felt about us ordering and him helping me eat. I've always given dates a heads-up before we're actually out that they're going to have to help me eat, just in case they didn't think it through and assumed I'd have a robot along with us to lend a hand or something. In his case, I was pretty sure he'd already gone there in his head. He said that would be fine, and he didn't get all hot and sweaty about it, so I figured this was a step in the right direction.

Then I asked him what, precisely, attracted him about my disability. He didn't have a concrete answer right away, but I let him have room to stammer around and eventually we landed on this: He's always really liked the idea of taking care of someone who can't take care of herself. Hm. Interesting.

Fact is, he's always been interested in people with disabilities, though it didn't became a romantic/sexual attraction to specifically high quadriplegic women until he was in high school. As he told me before, he's only briefly met a few girls in chairs in his whole life and has never dated any of them. So of course I asked him why he considers himself a devotee if he doesn't date or even interact with girls in chairs, ever.

And here's the strange/hilarious thing he told me: When he's with an AB girl, sexually, he has a hard time getting in the mood unless he imagines her paralyzed.Whaaa?? To be clear, he has no demented intention of harming her and he doesn't necessarily want that particular girl to have a tragic accident or anything. It just turns him on to think about whatever woman he's having sex with being paralyzed. Which I find hysterical, because I'm pretty sure most men I've slept with have been fantasizing that I wasn't paralyzed.

Naturally, I pushed the issue further and wanted to know why the idea of a paralyzed woman was so hottt to him. Did he get off on the power dynamic? Did he want to dominate her? Did he have fantasies of humiliating or hurting her, and her not being able to fight back? At this, he was truly horrified. Really, he looked like he was going to vomit. NO, he said. If anything, the thing that turned him on was the thought of being the person she depended on most for help, comfort, safety. He gets off on the idea of being a guardian. What a freak, right? And yeah, he admitted there's a major sexual aspect to the thrill. But he doesn't know why, or how to describe it any better than that.

So I asked him if it was sexually thrilling to have "helped" me with my dinner. Um, yeah, he shyly admitted. Okay. I don't think I get it, but I gotta say--it didn't really bother me. It bothered me before, when I imagined a fat, hairy, socially inept devotee, living in his mother's basement, trolling the internet for pretty little disabled girls to use as human masturbatory aids. But, when I sat across the table from this cute banker who blushed when he told me he got a sexual thrill from helping people, I dunno--it just didn't disgust me.

So, I needed to know, was there anything besides the fact that I'm paralyzed that he was attracted to? Or was one girl in a chair pretty much the same as the next to him? He actually laughed at this and told me, of course there were other things he was attracted to. Like my looks.

He told me that initially, maybe over a year ago, when my brother randomly mentioned that his sister used a wheelchair, he was interested but not insanely so. Then, I guess my brother put a family picture up on his FB (I didn't know--I'm one of those weirdos who isn't on FB for many reasons, like not wanting to deal with the kind of weirdos Ambivalid has met on there), and he saw it and freaked out. He said he couldn't concentrate for a couple days, because I was basically his exact physical type AND in a wheelchair. And it made him feel all weird.

Classic devotee, he has had a lot of guilt over the years about preferring women be in wheelchairs, when that's almost certainly not what they'd prefer. Plus, he is an attractive guy and he wasn't attracted to just any girl in a wheelchair. So he'd pretty much abandoned the idea of ever even being in the same room with a woman who fit both his criteria, physically. And he thought that might be a good thing, a healthy thing, for him. And then my brother brought me to a March Madness party at Mr. D's house and he decided to hell with the healthy thing.

So where did we end up at night's end? I told him I was no prude, and I do like him, but I needed time to process this stuff, so I wanted to take it slowly. He was totally cool with that. No kiss, but a really nice hug, the promise of another date on Friday night, and a wisp of sexy cologne that's still lingering in my hair...

Last thing: I do have to say, it was really nice to spend the evening with someone who sees my chair as a positive. Even if I still think that's bizarre, it was nice to be able to just be myself instead of trying to be the-awesome-girl-you-don't-want-to-miss-out-on-just-because-of-a-little-thing-like-total-body-paralysis. You know?

And hey--thanks for reading this. I can't even imagine who in my RL I'd be able to share this with, so it's nice to be able to process it so thoroughly with such savvy people. [FTR, no, my carer didn't help me write this--it feels a little too personal. Which is why it has taken me 2.5 hours to get it all out and edit it. Yeesh.].

[Tabby_Cat]

Hanging. On. Every. Word.

That sounded like a really positive date! I can just imaging getting quizzed about my fetish first off the bat - I'm surprised he was so candid with you, but hey!

Good luck!

[Pitchmeister]

You wrote this completely on your own? Wow! That leaves me a bit speechless...

Heavy stuff, for sure, but this could really be something, for him and for you. He probably felt like a million bucks after you didn't spit in his face for being such a huge pervert. I really hope for the both of you that this goes somewhere good.

Thank you so much again for this thread and your "Ask the...", it's opened my eyes in so many ways, and as R. P. McMurphy said over there, this is the very definition of fighting ignorance.

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by umkay

It actually felt really comfortable to talk to him, not awkward like I had assumed it would be.

A good start - I'm assuming you have decent instincts about people.

Then I asked him what, precisely, attracted him about my disability. He didn't have a concrete answer right away, but I let him have room to stammer around and eventually we landed on this: He's always really liked the idea of taking care of someone who can't take care of herself. Hm. Interesting.

NO, he said. If anything, the thing that turned him on was the thought of being the person she depended on most for help, comfort, safety. He gets off on the idea of being a guardian.

You found a guy who gets off on helping people? That's amazing.

From the rest of what you related it sounds like it's not just the chair, if he's had relationships/sex with AB women. And he didn't pursue you just because he heard you were in a chair, apparently it was chair + other qualities he saw when you were both at the March Madness party. Not my call, of course, but that sounds like a fairly normal guy with unusual features rather than that "socially inept devotee, living in his mother's basement, trolling the internet for pretty little disabled girls to use as human masturbatory aids" you feared he might be.

Last thing: I do have to say, it was really nice to spend the evening with someone who sees my chair as a positive. Even if I still think that's bizarre, it was nice to be able to just be myself instead of trying to be the-awesome-girl-you-don't-want-to-miss-out-on-just-because-of-a-little-thing-like-total-body-paralysis. You know?

Want to hear something else strange? Anyone at the restaurant looking at the two of you probably assumed you were the strong, brave one for soldiering on in your chair (you know the usual stereotype) when in fact he was the one being brave here, having 'fessed up to his "perversion" and leaving himself vulnerable to your judgement. It sounds like he's been keeping this secret for some time and you might be the first person he's ever talked to about this.

Do you enjoy defying convention, what with your skydiving and being in control all the time?

You made him sound like a sweet guy. I hope it works out, if that's what you want to happen.

And hey--thanks for reading this. I can't even imagine who in my RL I'd be able to share this with, so it's nice to be able to process it so thoroughly with such savvy people.

Sometimes, the quasi-anonymity of the internet can be soooooo helpful.

[FTR, no, my carer didn't help me write this--it feels a little too personal. Which is why it has taken me 2.5 hours to get it all out and edit it. Yeesh.].

Could be worse, I suppose - the poster blinkie I think has to type by twitching his eyebrows or something. Doesn't post often, I suspect the length of time it takes him to write things out has something to do with that.

[Bricker]

Like any first date -- you discover things about each other, and if it's a good first date, what you discover is that you both have qualities the other is attracted to.

Congrats on a great first date!

[Septima]

Congrats on a good date. He sounds like such a sweet guy. Good on you for giving him a chance.

[iiandyiiii]

I really enjoyed reading this thread, and your other thread (the "Ask the..." thread), Umkay, and I'm glad the date went well.

Something to keep in mind, perhaps- if this relationship goes anywhere, you might want to tell him about this thread, just on the off chance he comes across it himself. If he's cool, he'll probably find it a fascinating insight into his girlfriend's mind.

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Pitchmeister

You wrote this completely on your own? Wow! That leaves me a bit speechless...

Perhaps I've given you all the wrong impression of my voice software. I don't mind dictating to a carer when I'm trying to do a bunch of things at once or, as in the case of this and my other thread, I'm trying to post replies to questions as quickly as possible. For that, nothing beats a pair of hands.

However, the computer has always been a high quad's best friend. And with my specialized hardware and software, I can literally do anything on my computer that you can do on yours, once someone helps me get set up.

My voice software is especially good (made by Dragon, the same people behind Apple's Siri); it's so good, a lot of AB people use it. Here's an AB blogger who demonstrates how easy, accurate, and helpful the software is for him. The Dragon software can literally control your entire computer, but I find a lot of the voice commands cumbersome. So I use it only for creating content. [If you want to fool around with some Dragon stuff, I recommend their free iPhone app, Dragon Dictate].

Simply writing a long post (like the one you commented on) is not what takes me so long. It's the editing. I'm pretty anal about grammar, punctuation, and the "flow" of my writing, so once I've gotten my thoughts down on the screen, I use a chin-operated mouse and my mouthstick to correct wrongly heard words (homonyms are my bane), add emoticons, and move paragraphs or sentences around. All of this would be much faster with a pair of hands, which is why lengthy posts take me longer than the average AB person. But I can do them just as well as an AB person if I have the time and energy.

Originally Posted by Pitchmeister

this is the very definition of fighting ignorance.

Huh. Is it funny that I didn't see it that way until just now? Funny, it's right there on the top left hand corner of my screen, I've read it a thousand times, and yet I hadn't made that connection. But cool.

[happycamper*5]

Originally Posted by umkay

But, when I sat across the table from this cute banker who blushed when he told me he got a sexual thrill from helping people, I dunno--it just didn't disgust me.

And when you think about it, is this really that different from 'the norm?' I know when I'm able to help my wife in some way - from just being a shoulder to doing something that she literally cannot - it makes her happy, it makes me happy and two happy people have all kinds of good things goin' on. Sure, he takes that idea to a place that the average person doesn't, but in this case, it sounds like a pro that could potentially lead to good things goin' on for the two of you.

[delphica]

Aaaaaand when you told him about how you vetted the date by hundreds of total strangers on the internet, did he say "And you think I'm the one with a weird fetish?"

Signed,
One of the internet strangers who was really hopeful you would have a good date.

[Autolycus]

Awww, what a great turn-of-events. Can't wait for the second date!

[Vlad/Igor]

Originally Posted by umkay

...The first thing I asked him was how he felt about us ordering and him helping me eat...Then I asked him what, precisely, attracted him about my disability....So I asked him if it was sexually thrilling to have "helped" me with my dinner....

Your future husband is definitely not going to be able to get away with lying to you.

In a way, you remind me of a woman I dated for a short while. She had been molested by her step-father well before we dated, and when I saw her again many years later she said something that blew me away. She said what happened to her was part of her past, but did not define who she had become. She said not many people could understand or accept that; they could only see her as a victim.

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

You found a guy who gets off on helping people? That's amazing.

Right?? Course, he could just be a huge liar and telling me what he thinks I'd want to hear. I guess I'll find out!

Originally Posted by Broomstick

Do you enjoy defying convention, what with your skydiving and being in control all the time?

You may have already picked this up, but I'm kind of B.A.

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by umkay

Right?? Course, he could just be a huge liar and telling me what he thinks I'd want to hear. I guess I'll find out!

That's a risk you run with any guy, whether you're in a chair or AB.

I like you, kid. When I figure out how to afford an airplane again let's go flying. If we can't figure out how to get you into the co-pilot's seat we'll duct-tape you to a strut and you can add wing-walking to your resume. How about it?

[Rigamarole]

I don't mean to be too forward/crass and break the lovey-dovey romantic vibe in this thread, but I am deathly curious: can you... have sex? Or rather, could he have sex with you? I suppose you could give oral sex - would you? Have you (not to him but to anyone)?

ETA: I just saw the part in your last update about having had sex in the past with men... what is it like for you? Do the parts still function (i.e. lubricate on its own)?

[fifty-six]

How did he measure up on his feeding skills? Did you order spaghetti to challenge him? Burgers seems hard.

Oh! Btw, sounds like a great first date. I know it is not the first date you have had but it sounded fun. Lots of stuff out of the way right off. Good vibes. I hope the second goes as good.

[umkay]

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii

Something to keep in mind, perhaps- if this relationship goes anywhere, you might want to tell him about this thread, just on the off chance he comes across it himself. If he's cool, he'll probably find it a fascinating insight into his girlfriend's mind.

Oh, sh*t. I hadn't thought of that...

[umkay]

Originally Posted by happycamper*5

And when you think about it, is this really that different from 'the norm?' I know when I'm able to help my wife in some way - from just being a shoulder to doing something that she literally cannot - it makes her happy, it makes me happy and two happy people have all kinds of good things goin' on. Sure, he takes that idea to a place that the average person doesn't, but in this case, it sounds like a pro that could potentially lead to good things goin' on for the two of you.

Okay, this is sooo sweet.

So maybe he has a weird brain thing that makes the good feelings he gets when he helps someone go straight to his crotch. Enter the girl who needs help with everything. It's almost too good to be true.

[umkay]

Originally Posted by delphica

Aaaaaand when you told him about how you vetted the date by hundreds of total strangers on the internet, did he say "And you think I'm the one with a weird fetish?"

Ahahahaha! I hope he never finds out my naughty little secret! Shhh!

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Vlad/Igor

Your future husband is definitely not going to be able to get away with lying to you.

Okay, so I'm not usually that forward. But there were extenuating circumstances!

Originally Posted by Vlad/Igor

She said what happened to her was part of her past, but did not define who she had become. She said not many people could understand or accept that; they could only see her as a victim.

LOVE that.

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

I like you, kid. When I figure out how to afford an airplane again let's go flying. If we can't figure out how to get you into the co-pilot's seat we'll duct-tape you to a strut and you can add wing-walking to your resume. How about it?

I'm in! And I'm secretly hoping that we won't figure out a way to get me into the co-pilot's seat.

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Rigamarole

]can you... have sex? Or rather, could he have sex with you?

LOL. Yes, I can have sex. They didn't sew me up down there or something when I broke my neck!

And, just to be clear, what is the difference between me "having sex" and him "having sex with me?" I can't move my body, but that doesn't mean guys "do sex to" me or something. I'm an active participant, I assure you.

Originally Posted by Rigamarole

]I suppose you could give oral sex - would you? Have you (not to him but to anyone)?

I can do oral, quite well actually (or so I'm told). And I'm the dream girl who doesn't mind it, because it's one of the few things I can actively do during sex, and I like to show off. I can also receive oral. I can't feel it, but if the dude is into it, I don't mind watching.

Originally Posted by Rigamarole

]ETA: I just saw the part in your last update about having had sex in the past with men... what is it like for you? Do the parts still function (i.e. lubricate on its own)?

I also have a thread going called "Ask the Girl in the Wheelchair," and I go into quite a bit of detail about sex for me and how I (yes, occasionally) orgasm. But, Cliff's Notes: I've had sex many times, starting when I was 19, and I enjoy it very much. I don't lubricate well, but that's what AstroGlide is for. I've learned that sex for me needs to include a lot of talking. Not only for the guy's sake, so he knows I'm into it even though I can't show it by arching my back off the bed or wrapping my legs around his waist, but also so I know what he's doing to me anyplace I can't see.

[umkay]

Originally Posted by fifty-six

How did he measure up on his feeding skills? Did you order spaghetti to challenge him? Burgers seems hard.

He was really sweet, really gentle. No problems there, though I had to keep reminding him to feed himself, too. And though I was tempted to order the barbecue chicken or split pea soup just to be devilish, I went with a chicken Caesar salad instead.

[Odesio]

Originally Posted by umkay

While most communities of disabled people share a certain camaraderie, I've never heard of or seen one like the deaf community.

The biggest thing that separates the deaf from society at large is our (deaf and hearing) inability to communicate with one another effectively. Most deaf people cannot read lips and most people just don't know how to sign. You can jot notes down with a deaf person but it's tedious for all parties involved and a tough way to get to know someone.

So why do deaf people think being deaf is awesome, and I don't think being paralyzed is awesome?

Because there's a deaf culture that says it's not a disability. A culture that has it's own language, arts, etiquette, etc., etc. that sets them apart from mainstream society. Nothing like that exists for most other people with disabilities so far as I'm aware.

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by umkay

I'm in! And I'm secretly hoping that we won't figure out a way to get me into the co-pilot's seat.

She's a skydiver, why would she want to be inside the airplane...?

Actually, getting out of the airplane is frequently more difficult than getting in. My spouse once got himself into a small airplane but wound up needing 2 people to get him out of it again.

::: goes off to purchase duct tape :::

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Odesio

The biggest thing that separates the deaf from society at large is our (deaf and hearing) inability to communicate with one another effectively. Most deaf people cannot read lips and most people just don't know how to sign. You can jot notes down with a deaf person but it's tedious for all parties involved and a tough way to get to know someone.

And I can tell you, it's made tougher if you can't gesture with your hands and you have to write with a pen in your mouth. When I met my twin brother's in-laws, it was really nice to have my SIL there to interpret for us.

Originally Posted by Odesio

Because there's a deaf culture that says it's not a disability. A culture that has it's own language, arts, etiquette, etc., etc. that sets them apart from mainstream society. Nothing like that exists for most other people with disabilities so far as I'm aware.

And I kind of think deaf people are B.A. for this attitude. "We didn't want to be a part of your stupid hearing community anyway!" My brother has been learning sign over the past couple years, and I'm jealous I can't be a part of that. Plus, I've met at least two hot deaf guys through my SIL, but I think it's a lost cause...

By any chance, are you deaf? (I'm not hitting on you lol)

[Odesio]

Originally Posted by umkay

By any chance, are you deaf? (I'm not hitting on you lol)

Nope. I just have a keen interest in learning about people who aren't like me. We had a neat thread in Great Debates a few years back about whether or not being deaf was a disability you might want to look for if the subject interests you. I came on the side of disability given a few experiences I've had with deaf people over the years.

[Sigmagirl]

Originally Posted by umkay

But I can do them just as well as an AB person if I have the time and energy.

You right you can.

Originally Posted by umkay

You may have already picked this up, but I'm kind of B.A.

What's that? Badass? 'cause, yeah.

[Sir T-Cups]

This thread has been just fascinating as all hell. A great open discussion about the human mind and psychology....and with a great first date to boot!

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Sir T-Cups

This thread has been just fascinating as all hell. A great open discussion about the human mind and psychology....and with a great first date to boot!

I'm so glad you like it!

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Sigmagirl

What's that? Badass? 'cause, yeah.

Ding ding ding!

[etv78]

Even though I'm a bagger, and bagger shouldn't be juicers, I'd RESENT the devotee! I want a woman to love ME, not my chair!

[Jimmy Chitwood]

I'm glad that you like the dude, and I think it's kind of cool that everyone's excited. Obviously I'm about to attempt to harsh everyone's buzz now that I've said that, but 1. you were there, so what the hell do I know and 2. I'm admittedly predisposed to seeing the worst in a dynamic like this one.

Anyway, in the spirit of the question you asked originally, I have to say that this:

And here's the strange/hilarious thing he told me: When he's with an AB girl, sexually, he has a hard time getting in the mood unless he imagines her paralyzed.Whaaa?? To be clear, he has no demented intention of harming her and he doesn't necessarily want that particular girl to have a tragic accident or anything. It just turns him on to think about whatever woman he's having sex with being paralyzed. Which I find hysterical, because I'm pretty sure most men I've slept with have been fantasizing that I wasn't paralyzed.

Naturally, I pushed the issue further and wanted to know why the idea of a paralyzed woman was so hottt to him. Did he get off on the power dynamic? Did he want to dominate her? Did he have fantasies of humiliating or hurting her, and her not being able to fight back? At this, he was truly horrified. Really, he looked like he was going to vomit. NO, he said. If anything, the thing that turned him on was the thought of being the person she depended on most for help, comfort, safety. He gets off on the idea of being a guardian. What a freak, right? And yeah, he admitted there's a major sexual aspect to the thrill. But he doesn't know why, or how to describe it any better than that.

is kind of exactly what I would expect an unhealthy sexual attraction to quadriplegic people to sound like. I mean, there are lots of ways I can imagine he'd sound worse, but I don't think it's normal to need a woman to be incapable of taking care of herself in order to perform sexually. I'm not sure how everyone else is reading that, but as horrified as he was that you suggested he'd get off on dominating her, it doesn't seem like very much of a stretch to imagine that if he needs her to be helpless to be stimulated (so much so that if she isn't, he'll imagine she is), he's not going to react very well to her asserting herself. There are different ways that a need to be controlling can manifest itself, and this really seems like one to me. It comes off like a hamhanded metaphor for itself. But maybe this is just me.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood

I'm glad that you like the dude, and I think it's kind of cool that everyone's excited. Obviously I'm about to attempt to harsh everyone's buzz now that I've said that, but 1. you were there, so what the hell do I know and 2. I'm admittedly predisposed to seeing the worst in a dynamic like this one.

Anyway, in the spirit of the question you asked originally, I have to say that this:


is kind of exactly what I would expect an unhealthy sexual attraction to quadriplegic people to sound like. I mean, there are lots of ways I can imagine he'd sound worse, but I don't think it's normal to need a woman to be incapable of taking care of herself in order to perform sexually. I'm not sure how everyone else is reading that, but as horrified as he was that you suggested he'd get off on dominating her, it doesn't seem like very much of a stretch to imagine that if he needs her to be helpless to be stimulated (so much so that if she isn't, he'll imagine she is), he's not going to react very well to her asserting herself. There are different ways that a need to be controlling can manifest itself, and this really seems like one to me. It comes off like a hamhanded metaphor for itself. But maybe this is just me.

Ding ding ding.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood

I'm glad that you like the dude, and I think it's kind of cool that everyone's excited. Obviously I'm about to attempt to harsh everyone's buzz now that I've said that, but 1. you were there, so what the hell do I know and 2. I'm admittedly predisposed to seeing the worst in a dynamic like this one.

Anyway, in the spirit of the question you asked originally, I have to say that this:


is kind of exactly what I would expect an unhealthy sexual attraction to quadriplegic people to sound like. I mean, there are lots of ways I can imagine he'd sound worse, but I don't think it's normal to need a woman to be incapable of taking care of herself in order to perform sexually. I'm not sure how everyone else is reading that, but as horrified as he was that you suggested he'd get off on dominating her, it doesn't seem like very much of a stretch to imagine that if he needs her to be helpless to be stimulated (so much so that if she isn't, he'll imagine she is), he's not going to react very well to her asserting herself. There are different ways that a need to be controlling can manifest itself, and this really seems like one to me. It comes off like a hamhanded metaphor for itself. But maybe this is just me.

http://sites.google.com/site/abasioinfo/Home/factitious

This is a study that looks at the shared psychological problem at the root of DPWs. I don't think devotees are necessarily bad, or dangerous, people; I just think that they suffer from psychological problems (probably sexual in nature as well as others) that will prevent them from being in healthy relationships. And of course, towards the extreme, they can be dangerous.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Ding ding ding.

I HONESTLY had no idea that Umkay posted this same thing earlier in the thread. This makes it look like I was mocking her post or something; I definitely wasn't. Just a coinky-dink.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

http://sites.google.com/site/abasioinfo/Home/factitious

This is a study that looks at the shared psychological problem at the root of DPWs. I don't think devotees are necessarily bad, or dangerous, people; I just think that they suffer from psychological problems (probably sexual in nature as well as others) that will prevent them from being in healthy relationships. And of course, towards the extreme, they can be dangerous.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...lkMy48kP_MrTMQ

This is a fairer look at devotees, IMO. One that takes a critical eye to the study in the above quoted link.

[Broomstick]

You know, if all Mr. D has done up until this point is fantasize about being in a relationship with a disabled woman he might find the reality isn't as wonderful as the fantasy.

The warnings about dominance, risk, and creepy boyfriends are appropriate to balance out the good cheer, but domineering men and risk of creeps is something ALL women have to face on the date-and-mate scene, able-bodied or disabled. As umkay is sexually experienced, educated, employed, and not dependent on keeping a relationship with a man in order to remain housed, fed, and cared for she is actually in a better position to avoid and/or extract herself from an abusive/skeevy relationship than some able-bodied women.

Yeah, Mr. D apparently has a kink. Is it a kink that requires his partner to remain dependent or helpless, or is part of the appeal helping someone do and accomplish things? If he makes love to a quad is it just about his orgasm or does he fantasize getting her off, too?

It just strikes me that human sexuality is complicated and varied. One can have a fetish without it being harmful to oneself or others. Or one can be fetish-free yet also a domineering and abusive partner. Sex can be all about the one particular kink or the kink can be an addition to "normal" sex.

Ultimately, the decision is up to umkay, of course, and the young man in question.

[Ambivalid]

I make my disability attractive; my disability doesn't make me attractive.

[etv78]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

I make my disability attractive; my disability doesn't make me attractive.

I'm sure you do Ambi! I endevour to do the same for myself!

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by umkay

I'm in! And I'm secretly hoping that we won't figure out a way to get me into the co-pilot's seat.

You really want to strut your stuff, then.

[Maastricht]

Mr Devote sounds.. well, not too good to be true, but almost there.

I wish both of them all the luck in the world, but a little blackhearted suspicious part of me fears that he knows about ummkay's dad being loaded and that he is in it for the money. And that he knows that umkay is not wary about a suitor being after her money because she is too busy being wary about a suitor having a controlling kink.

[umkay]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood

I'm glad that you like the dude, and I think it's kind of cool that everyone's excited. Obviously I'm about to attempt to harsh everyone's buzz now that I've said that, but 1. you were there, so what the hell do I know and 2. I'm admittedly predisposed to seeing the worst in a dynamic like this one.

Anyway, in the spirit of the question you asked originally, I have to say that this:

is kind of exactly what I would expect an unhealthy sexual attraction to quadriplegic people to sound like. I mean, there are lots of ways I can imagine he'd sound worse, but I don't think it's normal to need a woman to be incapable of taking care of herself in order to perform sexually. I'm not sure how everyone else is reading that, but as horrified as he was that you suggested he'd get off on dominating her, it doesn't seem like very much of a stretch to imagine that if he needs her to be helpless to be stimulated (so much so that if she isn't, he'll imagine she is), he's not going to react very well to her asserting herself. There are different ways that a need to be controlling can manifest itself, and this really seems like one to me. It comes off like a hamhanded metaphor for itself. But maybe this is just me.

Oh, fack. You have a decent point there.

But let me say this: If Mr. D is pursuing me because he thinks I'm helpless or that I'll be easy to control, well...

*chuckles*

...not all my boyfriends have broken up with me over the chair. Let's just say words like "ornery" and "stubborn" and "pain in the ass" have been mentioned.

Basically, I don't take anybody's sh*t. And I have an agenda for how I see my life going.

As for my physical safety or worries about him dominating me, I appreciate everyone's concerns. But keep in mind that I have four very able-bodied older brothers.

I don't know what I'm going to do long-term. But I think I will keep my date with him tomorrow night and just take it one date at a time. If he starts giving me the creeps, I won't hesitate to drop him like a bad habit.

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by umkay

I don't know what I'm going to do long-term. But I think I will keep my date with him tomorrow night and just take it one date at a time. If he starts giving me the creeps, I won't hesitate to drop him like a bad habit.

Sounds like a plan. Good luck!

[puddleglum]

If I could do a little armchair psychologizing. It seems that after the accident you reacting against the pity that people exhibited towards you by defining yourself as not as a victim but as an overcomer. You want to see yourself as someone who has transcended your handicap instead of being defined by it. You seem afraid that the fact he is attracted to your disability will cast you as the victim again and as a person to be cared for instead of admired. An outsider may see this as there being a lid for every pot and a lucky thing but to you it is a potential threat to your hard fought identity.
I think this is more common among women than men realize. I have heard big busted women say that want to be loved for themselves and they get tired of men not looking at them in the face. I even know a woman who will not wear lingerie because she wants her husband to be turned on by her and not the clothing.

[gaffa]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

You found a guy who gets off on helping people? That's amazing.

It sounds like he is just on a more extreme point of the scale. We all do things for the people we love that, strictly speaking, we don't get anything out of. I love performing oral sex on my wife, and am amazed and thrilled by the intensity of her orgasms. Doing this for her excites me. So maybe he just has that same impulse, only more so.

By the way umkay, if this relationship works out I think you have the makings of a really excellent book.

[gaffa]

Oh dear, did I kill this thread?

[drachillix]

Didn't read the whole thread, but just a .02 worth. I dated a woman for a few months who was wheelchair bound. I had zero problems with her, but the family were extremely hostile and seemed to operate under the assumption that anyone who was really "into" her was just looking exploit/abuse her in some way. Working around her disability was pretty easy, the parents unfortunately were a deal breaker.

[olivesmarch4th]

Man, that is some heavy conversation for a first date, amirite?

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by umkay

But I think I will keep my date with him tomorrow night and just take it one date at a time.

That was last night. Any updates?