Obama "Most Divisive" Figure in US Politics

[fumster]

Mark Rubio has called Obama the most divisive figure in US politics. Where do conservatives get this stuff? It's as though there is no such thing as reality anymore. Hell, it's hard to think of a president who has acted less divisively. His big crime is promoting a health care bill that was similar to one the Republican's themselves advocated not long ago, and almost identical to what was signed into law by the presumptive nominee of the Republicans.

Nixon, the guy that called Obama a liar, and Sara "Death Panel" Palin are divisive. I can see how the blunt Barney Frank and some other Democrats can be seen as divisive, but Obama?

Regardless of political philosophy, I don't see how anyone with a modicum of intelligence could remain connected to the Republicans when they just make stuff up. How can democracy work in this environment?

[gamerunknown]

Well, he is black.

[fumster]

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

Well, he is black.

Hell, even there he compromised and had a white mother.

[John Mace]

He's divisive if you're a real American. If you don't find him divisive, then you're not a real American.

[Farmer Jane]

Originally Posted by fumster

Hell, even there he compromised and had a white mother.

Plus, if he had a son, he'd come out wearing a hoodie.

[Simplicio]

He actually called him the most divisive figure in "modern American history"!

Apparently calling for a partial return to Clinton era tax rates makes you more divisive then Malcolm X, Newt Gingrich, Oliver North, Nixon, LBJ, George Wallace, etc.

[foolsguinea]

Originally Posted by Simplicio

He actually called him the most divisive figure in "modern American history"!

Apparently calling for a partial return to Clinton era tax rates makes you more divisive then Malcolm X, Newt Gingrich, Oliver North, Nixon, LBJ, George Wallace, etc.

Rubio doesn't remember those people, so they're not his "modern American history." You don't understand how right-wing history works. There are four periods, in order:

THE BIBLE
MY IDYLLIC CHILDHOOD
THE USSR (which is identified with both Orwell's 1984 and all Maoist movements everywhere)
WHAT I LIVED THROUGH AS AN ADULT

Everything else is trivia and didn't happen.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Quite the contrary: Obama is a uniter, not a divider.

The Right hates him for being a hardcore tax-and-spend liberal with an old-school socialist agenda who wants to soak the rich to benefit the layabout poor, muzzle Wall Street, gut the military, weaken our position on the world stage, negotiate with our enemies, disengage from Israel, and outlaw the private ownership of firearms. The Left hates him because none of that is true.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

Quite the contrary: Obama is a uniter, not a divider.

The Right hates him for being a hardcore tax-and-spend liberal with an old-school socialist agenda who wants to soak the rich to benefit the layabout poor, muzzle Wall Street, gut the military, weaken our position on the world stage, negotiate with our enemies, disengage from Israel, and outlaw the private ownership of firearms. The Left hates him because none of that is true.

Wow, you nailed it.

[jtgain]

I think that with the evolution of online media and blogs, EVERY NEXT PRESIDENT will be the most divisive figure ever. When Nixon was in office he didn't have the Occupy Movement, and Carter didn't have the Tea Party, both groups able to spew their nonsense on a hundred web pages.

[SenorBeef]

They're sort of right. Not that Obama has done anything to justify it, or acts in a divisive manner - but if half the country decides that he is the guy who is most responsible for all that is wrong in the world, and they absolutely hate him at their core, and they spend 10 hours a day passing around e-mails about his evil socialist plans and posting yahoo news comments about the end of America, he's a divisive figure.

It's just ironic because he's amongst the most concilliatory, and quite frankly, borderline spineless politicians we've seen - he's far more inclusive and nice to them than they deserve.

This is probably the biggest gap between actual divisive behavior, and perceived divisiveness that we may ever see. I don't see how it could be any larger. The right wing echo chamber has been amazingly successful in working up everyone who chooses to be in it into a frothing rage over absolutely nothing. In 50 years, with some historical perspective, this could be taught in history classes as a new type/level of propoganda success.

[Spoke]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

Quite the contrary: Obama is a uniter, not a divider.

The Right hates him for being a hardcore tax-and-spend liberal with an old-school socialist agenda who wants to soak the rich to benefit the layabout poor, muzzle Wall Street, gut the military, weaken our position on the world stage, negotiate with our enemies, disengage from Israel, and outlaw the private ownership of firearms. The Left hates him because none of that is true.

...Oh, I may have to steal that.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by jtgain

I think that with the evolution of online media and blogs, EVERY NEXT PRESIDENT will be the most divisive figure ever. When Nixon was in office he didn't have the Occupy Movement, and Carter didn't have the Tea Party, both groups able to spew their nonsense on a hundred web pages.

But this isn't from some wild eyed TPer. It's from a Senator who is on everyone's short list for the VP slot. If Romney is elected, do you think we'll hear that from a similar Democraic Senator in 2016?

[elucidator]

Originally Posted by Spoke

...Oh, I may have to steal that.

Too late! Mine! Back off!

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by elucidator

Too late! Mine! Back off!

Nonsense; we can all have some; just send in the clones.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by fumster

Mark Rubio has called Obama the most divisive figure in US politics. Where do conservatives get this stuff?

In this case, from angling for the Veep slot, I should think.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

Quite the contrary: Obama is a uniter, not a divider.

And what America needs right now is a divider, not a uniter. Obama just doesn't get that. He seems to take the right seriously.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by jtgain

I think that with the evolution of online media and blogs, EVERY NEXT PRESIDENT will be the most divisive figure ever.

Well, that kind of thing is older than the telegraph (though not much older, since modern democracy is not much older). It is always in a candidate's interest to convince the voters, or at least his base, that the next election is the most important make-or-break event in their lives to date, that's how you fire 'em up.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by John Mace

But this isn't from some wild eyed TPer. It's from a Senator who is on everyone's short list for the VP slot. If Romney is elected, do you think we'll hear that from a similar Democraic Senator in 2016?

I hope so, and I expect in that case it would be justified.

[drewtwo99]

To me, he's about as divisive as George Bush was through most of his presidency (I admit that at the end he went from being divisive to mostly reviled and avoided even by many in his own party). The left ABSOLUTELY hated him, the right generally liked him and supported him. You can make the argument that he was rightfully divisive for starting the Iraq war where Obama hasn't made many truly divisive actions, but I'm not seeing a huge difference between the two in how much hate and vitriol there is spewed at them on a daily basis.

About half the country supports Obama and thinks he's doing a decent job. I don't know anyone who is absolutely crazy about him. This is pretty much how Bush was for a long time.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by drewtwo99

To me, he's about as divisive as George Bush was through most of his presidency (I admit that at the end he went from being divisive to mostly reviled and avoided even by many in his own party). The left ABSOLUTELY hated him, the right generally liked him and supported him. You can make the argument that he was rightfully divisive for starting the Iraq war where Obama hasn't made many truly divisive actions, but I'm not seeing a huge difference between the two in how much hate and vitriol there is spewed at them on a daily basis.

Did you live through the W years?! Yeah, there was plenty of vitriol spewed at him (and/or Cheney), I spewed a lot of it myself. But compared to what Obama gets . . . well, there's no comparison. Nobody ever called W a "Manchurian Candidate."

Clinton, now, he got something of the same kind of vitriol Obama gets (not from the Lewinsky scandal, I mean from Day One -- I recall a bumper-sticker from his first year, "Clinton for Change," each "C" rendered as a hammer-and-sickle); but now it's cranked to eleven.

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by jtgain

I think that with the evolution of online media and blogs, EVERY NEXT PRESIDENT will be the most divisive figure ever.

Yeah, like if the old schtick about every donkey president being the Most Liberal Ever were remotely true we'd be literally communist by now.

[septimus]

Originally Posted by fumster

Hell, even there he compromised and had a white mother.

This self-confusion by Obama about his own race shows lack of integrity as shown in a Rolling Stone interview of right-thinking voters (though I can find only the Alternet republication):

... Ron says his problem with Obama is the integrity thing. "He exaggerates too much," Ron says. "He's not honest."

"OK," I say. "What does he exaggerate about?"

"Well, like that time he was saying he had a white mother and a white grandmother," he says.

I ask him how this is an exaggeration.

"Well, he was saying . . ." he begins. "As if that qualifies him to . . ."

Despite my repeated prodding, Ron seems unable or unwilling to say aloud exactly what he means. Finally, his friend Mary, a grave-looking blonde with fierce anger lines around her eyes, jumps in, points a finger and blurts out one of the all-time man-on-the-street quotes.

"Look, you either are or you aren't," she says.

"And he aren't," Ron says, nodding with relief.

[Qin Shi Huangdi]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Did you live through the W years?! Yeah, there was plenty of vitriol spewed at him (and/or Cheney), I spewed a lot of it myself. But compared to what Obama gets . . . well, there's no comparison. Nobody ever called W a "Manchurian Candidate."

Many people openly compared him to Hitler or thought he'd establish a theocracy like Nehemiah Scudder. And quite a few people were fighting for his impeachment which is exactly what the Birthers want with Obama.

[foolsguinea]

Well, Bush did LIE TO CONGRESS to START A WAR. He also KIDNAPPED suspects from OUTSIDE USA JURISDICTION to HOLD THEM WITHOUT TRIAL.

I left the GOP in those years. I can really say that while Bush was in some ways better than the House GOP, they all were a corrupt bunch who DROVE ME OUT of my party in dismay.

So, yeah. Bush had it coming. If it blows back on Obama and he gets impeached for continuing Bush's crimes, I'm really OK with that. Go ahead and scapegoat the mulatto, at least maybe the abuses can stop.

ETA: Impeaching him for possibly (not really) maybe (as if) not being born where and to whom he thinks he was is as daft as a half-eaten dead stalk of monkey grass, however.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by septimus

"Look, you either are or you aren't," she says.

"And he aren't," Ron says, nodding with relief.

Aren't white, or aren't black?

[Lamar Mundane]

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi

Many people openly compared him to Hitler or thought he'd establish a theocracy like Nehemiah Scudder. And quite a few people were fighting for his impeachment which is exactly what the Birthers want with Obama.

You're woefully mistaken. Only a person who gets their news from talk radio and right-wing blogs could believe that. Maybe you can find a few links to random bloggers who said these things, but with Obama, it is highly placed elected officials saying them.

Rep. Mike Coffman (R-Colorado) is backpedaling after our sister station KUSA 9NEWS reported on an audio recording of his comments at a recent fundraiser where he raised the issue of President Barack Obama's birthplace and said the president, "in his heart, he's not an American."

Colorado Congressman Mike Coffman: Obama in his heart is ''not an American''

Sticking your finger into the face of the President of the United States.

A North Carolina Representative Walter B. Jones Jr. Congressman has introduced a resolution calling for the impeachment of President Barack Obama if he sends US troops into Syria without Congressional approval.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...7#.T7moGUWJc_c

“So I think that’s the thought, because you’re never going to get something through the Senate. That doesn’t mean that at a certain point you just say enough, I don’t care enough about the Senate, duty calls us to just get up and just impeach this guy."

Missouri Rep. Todd Akin

There are dozens if not hundreds more, and I'm not even talking about the racist stuff.

[L. G. Butts, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi

Many people openly compared him to Hitler or thought he'd establish a theocracy like Nehemiah Scudder. And quite a few people were fighting for his impeachment which is exactly what the Birthers want with Obama.

Curtis, can you link to some of this? I don't remember anybody of note (politician, media talking head, etc...) taking the political discourse to this level. Thanks.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi

And quite a few people were fighting for his [Bush's] impeachment which is exactly what the Birthers want with Obama.

You do see the false equivalency here, don't you?

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by L. G. Butts, Ph.D.

Curtis, can you link to some of this? I don't remember anybody of note (politician, media talking head, etc...) taking the political discourse to this level. Thanks.

I posted this GD thread back in 2007; but I ain't nobody of note, it was just a buch of nerds shooting the shit on a messageboard like here and now; and it was, even in hindsight, a matter worthy of some serious discussion at that level.

[Ludovic]

Plus the equivalent now would be trying to impeach Obama for the health care bill. Which at least has a basis in political disagreements rather than being batpoop like birtherism.

[Maus Magill]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

Quite the contrary: Obama is a uniter, not a divider.

The Right hates him for being a hardcore tax-and-spend liberal with an old-school socialist agenda who wants to soak the rich to benefit the layabout poor, muzzle Wall Street, gut the military, weaken our position on the world stage, negotiate with our enemies, disengage from Israel, and outlaw the private ownership of firearms. The Left hates him because none of that is true.

Hey! Look over there!

{Maus runs off with the best summery ever.}

[Yllaria]

Originally Posted by Spoke

...Oh, I may have to steal that.

It is a thing of beauty, isn't it.

[Wesley Clark]

Originally Posted by drewtwo99

To me, he's about as divisive as George Bush was through most of his presidency (I admit that at the end he went from being divisive to mostly reviled and avoided even by many in his own party). The left ABSOLUTELY hated him, the right generally liked him and supported him. You can make the argument that he was rightfully divisive for starting the Iraq war where Obama hasn't made many truly divisive actions, but I'm not seeing a huge difference between the two in how much hate and vitriol there is spewed at them on a daily basis.

About half the country supports Obama and thinks he's doing a decent job. I don't know anyone who is absolutely crazy about him. This is pretty much how Bush was for a long time.

Bush's approval rating near the end of his term was 20-25%. He had no support from anyone other than his base. Not only that but he was governing during a relatively benign economic period (up until the end). So he didn't have the cloud of economic failure hanging over him until the last few months of his presidency that Obama has had his entire term.

I just don't see the similarity. Bush didn't care what his critics thought, although this mentality was better embodied by Cheney. Obama seems to go out of his way to be bipartisan for its own sake.

In fact that was one of the reasons to be pro Obama in the 2008 primary, this mentality that Clinton would be too divisive. Clinton seems downright milquetoast compared to Obama. Well maybe not (to my knowledge Obama hasn't been accused of killing his friends and making it look like suicide yet).

Obviously I and most people on this board will have a political bias. But a lot of the hate for Bush was based on things he actually did. A good deal of the hate for Obama is based on what his critics 'think' he did. Or based on what Obama did that his critics used to support until a few years ago.

Well again, maybe not (I love debating myself). The rendition program started under Clinton and Gore, I don't really hear Bush critics bring that aspect of the program up.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Wesley Clark

Bush didn't care what his critics thought, although this mentality was better embodied by Cheney.

His mentality was Cheney.

[JBGUSA]

Originally Posted by John Mace

He's divisive if you're a real American. If you don't find him divisive, then you're not a real American.

I tend to agree. But Nixon and Carter were more divisive.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by JBGUSA

I tend to agree. But Nixon and Carter were more divisive.

Carter was despised but never hated.

[gamerunknown]

wrong thread

[septimus]

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi

And quite a few people were fighting for his impeachment which is exactly what the Birthers want with Obama.

I think it's shameful to compare the impeachment attempts against Bush with those against Obama.

The most serious charge against Bush was the white lies he used to attack Iraq. But these were good lies, providing a trillion-dollar stimulus, and bringing peace and prosperity to the Iraqi people, now erecting a statue to Bush to replace the fallen one of Saddam.

The shameful Obama, OTOH, is accused of masterminding a secret flight to Kenya while still a fetus, to conduct a Satanic ritual just so that 50-odd years later, he could force our job creators to provide our female sluts with free birth control.

How liberals can dare compare the benign white lies of GWB with the Satanic Marxist designs of Hussein Obama is beyond my comprehension.

[Gangster Octopus]

Originally Posted by septimus

How liberals can dare compare the benign white lies of GWB with the Satanic Marxist designs of Hussein Obama is beyond my comprehension.

I know a few people who would write that seriously.

[JBGUSA]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Carter was despised but never hated.

And the difference being?

[JBGUSA]

Originally Posted by septimus

I think it's shameful to compare the impeachment attempts against Bush with those against Obama.
**********************
How liberals can dare compare the benign white lies of GWB with the Satanic Marxist designs of Hussein Obama is beyond my comprehension.

I think in both cases impeachment efforts are efforts to move political disagreements into the impeachment/removal sphere. The U.S. was not set up as a parliamentary system. Our Presidents govern for fixed terms that are not limited by the confidence of Congress.

Thus, the only living President whose term ended prematurely was Richard Nixon. That was in the face of accusations of serious criminal misconduct. I happen to think that the "birthers" are off their rocker. But even if Obama was born in Kenya, the Constitution does not fix removal, or any other penalty, for failing eligibility but being elected anyway.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

They're sort of right. Not that Obama has done anything to justify it, or acts in a divisive manner - but if half the country decides that he is the guy who is most responsible for all that is wrong in the world, and they absolutely hate him at their core, and they spend 10 hours a day passing around e-mails about his evil socialist plans and posting yahoo news comments about the end of America, he's a divisive figure.

This. He is divisive, merely because he exists. The fact that it isn't his fault doesn't make it untrue.

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

Quite the contrary: Obama is a uniter, not a divider.

The Right hates him for being a hardcore tax-and-spend liberal with an old-school socialist agenda who wants to soak the rich to benefit the layabout poor, muzzle Wall Street, gut the military, weaken our position on the world stage, negotiate with our enemies, disengage from Israel, and outlaw the private ownership of firearms. The Left hates him because none of that is true.

I am stealing this, but I promise to credit you as a wise man.

[Chronos]

Thus, the only living President whose term ended prematurely was Richard Nixon.

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

As for Carter, the impression I get is that he was widely regarded as a nice guy who was just wrong for the job. Plenty of people wanted to (and did) vote him out of office, but very few wanted to walk up to him and punch him in the nose. I suspect that the punch-in-the-nose count is significantly higher for both Obama and W. Bush (and for Clinton, and H. W. Bush, and Reagan, for that matter).

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by JBGUSA

And the difference being?

The difference between hatred and contempt. E.g., traditional white American prejudice towards African-Americans regarded them as mentally inferior, and for that very reason was often rather affectionate towards them in a patronizing way, but not respectful; these people were all right to have around, but not to be taken seriously or given positions of responsibility. That's contempt. Hatred was manifested by the Klan and such. In Carter's case, everybody liked him, everybody recognized him as one of the good guys, but many despised him as incompetent at his job. Nixon was hated but not despised, he was obviously brilliant at his job. But W came in for both hatred and contempt, and deserved both. Obama deserves neither, but gets both anyway.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Death as we understand it has no power over him . . .

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by JBGUSA

Thus, the only living President whose term ended prematurely was Richard Nixon.

Originally Posted by Chronos

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Yeah, that was my bad, sorry.

Turns out a length of PVC covered with wood-grain printed contact paper doesn't really count as a stake.

[BigAppleBucky]

This comes from a GOPer whose leaders decided on day 1 (Jan 20, 2009) to oppose President Obama on every single issue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1452899.html

Karl Rove school of damned lies.

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by Spoke

...Oh, I may have to steal that.

Pffft, I've already filed a copyright application.

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Did you live through the W years?! Yeah, there was plenty of vitriol spewed at him (and/or Cheney), I spewed a lot of it myself. But compared to what Obama gets . . . well, there's no comparison. Nobody ever called W a "Manchurian Candidate."

Clinton, now, he got something of the same kind of vitriol Obama gets (not from the Lewinsky scandal, I mean from Day One -- I recall a bumper-sticker from his first year, "Clinton for Change," each "C" rendered as a hammer-and-sickle); but now it's cranked to eleven.

I remember a LOT fo people saying all sorts of shit about bush. the only difference you point out is that the stuff they're saying about Obama isn't remotely true.

Originally Posted by BigAppleBucky

This comes from a GOPer whose leaders decided on day 1 (Jan 20, 2009) to oppose President Obama on every single issue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1452899.html

Karl Rove school of damned lies.

Republcans put party before country. They are so convinced that they have a monopoly on good ideas that they are willing to see Rome burn so they can rebuild it in their image.

[Gangster Octopus]

The difference between the Bush vitriol and the Obama vitriol is the the Bush vitriol was never mainstreamed the way it is for Obama.