Two new elements named

[ultrafilter]

It's official: 114 is Flerovium, and 116 is Livermorium.

IUPAC has officially approved the name flerovium, with symbol Fl, for the element of atomic number 114 and the name livermorium, with symbol Lv, for the element of atomic number 116. Priority for the discovery of these elements was assigned, in accordance with the agreed criteria, to the collaboration between the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research (Dubna, Russia) and the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (Livermore, California, USA). The collaborating team has proposed the names flerovium and livermorium which have now been formally approved by IUPAC.

Not that any of us will ever see the stuff, but it's still kinda cool. Anyone know what's up with 115?

[tdn]

Great, that's just more shit that I have to dust.

[CalMeacham]

Quoth the IUPAC ...........Livermore!

[bup]

Originally Posted by ultrafilter

Not that any of us will ever see the stuff, but it's still kinda cool. Anyone know what's up with 115?

It looks like 115 was first synthesized a few years after either 114 or 116, so I guess its official naming is a few years off.

[Sunspace]

Has it gotten to the point where the IUPAC is now stealing symbols from Adobe?

[Ludovic]

Who discovered Flerovium? Professor Frink?

[njtt]

Is there any scientific point in making these new elements any more? So far as I can tell, we have got way past the stage where any of these elements are of any conceivable use, and also past the point where making them tells us anything new of any significance about physics or any other aspect of the natural world. It seems like money (and expertise) down the drain, just to stoke egos and a passion for stamp collecting. Mundane and pointless indeed.

[TriPolar]

Couldn't we just start naming elements before they're created? The next thing in line could be called Waitforitium, or just honor some guys for other things they've done with Newtonium and Farnsworthium. You could sell atomic names the way people sell star names, you can have an element called Johmsmithium. Or just add cultural media names like Unobtanium and Upsidaisium.

[Sicks Ate]

This might seem like a silly questions, but what's the significance of the -ium in element names? Is it latin?

[chrisk]

Originally Posted by njtt

Is there any scientific point in making these new elements any more? So far as I can tell, we have got way past the stage where any of these elements are of any conceivable use, and also past the point where making them tells us anything new of any significance about physics or any other aspect of the natural world. It seems like money (and expertise) down the drain, just to stoke egos and a passion for stamp collecting. Mundane and pointless indeed.

Well, I think there might be a scientific and practical point in finding an island of stability - a string of elements in the periodic table that are more long-lived than the ones we're making now.

[Lightray]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Couldn't we just start naming elements before they're created? The next thing in line could be called Waitforitium, or just honor some guys for other things they've done with Newtonium and Farnsworthium. You could sell atomic names the way people sell star names, you can have an element called Johmsmithium. Or just add cultural media names like Unobtanium and Upsidaisium.

They do. We had unnilpentium (dubnium), unnilhexium (seaborgium), unnilseptium (bohrium), and unniloctium (hassium).

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Lightray

They do. We had unnilpentium (dubnium), unnilhexium (seaborgium), unnilseptium (bohrium), and unniloctium (hassium).

Not exactly. Those are temporary names and they're the equivalent of 105ium, 106ium, 107ium and so on.

[freckafree]

For lots of elementary goodness, I highly recommend reading The Disappearing Spoon.

[Spoons]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

Who discovered Flerovium? Professor Frink?

If Frink discovered anything, wouldn't it have to be called Glavinium?

[Taomist]

Oh great, more to memorize.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Taomist

Oh great, more to memorize.

And more work for Tom Lehrer.

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

This might seem like a silly questions, but what's the significance of the -ium in element names? Is it latin?

No really, I mean it. Fight my ignorance, g.d. it!

[Marley23]

Yes, it's Latin. It comes from the names of metals and I think it just became tradition at some point.

[california jobcase]

Here ya go-
http://wordinfo.info/units/index/I/page:6

Info says it's a metallic element suffix, but it's also in Helium (from Helios, meaning sun) which of course isn't a metal, tellurium, and germanium, which are metalloids. Sites I looked at say selenium's a nonmetal with borderline metalloid properties.

With the preceding exceptions, all elements ending in -ium are metals.

[CalMeacham]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

This might seem like a silly questions, but what's the significance of the -ium in element names? Is it latin?

Not all of them, of course. Americans call the light metal aluminum, but the British, with an (arguably) foolish love of consistency, call this aluminium. If you want to annoy them, ask them why they don't say platinium.



Besides, there are plenty of elements that end in neither -ium or -um -- Nickel, Cobalt, Gold....

[njtt]

Originally Posted by chrisk

Well, I think there might be a scientific and practical point in finding an island of stability - a string of elements in the periodic table that are more long-lived than the ones we're making now.

Yes I have heard of the predicted "island of stability," but, of course, it is only stability relative to the elements leading up to it. The elements there will still be extremely short lived. Now, tell me what the practical or scientific significance of actually synthesizing any of them might be? What ramifications is it likely to have for the rest of science? Precious few, so far as I can see.

[Taomist]

Enh, discover for discovery's sake isn't a bad thing. Labelling it, same. It just creates a structure, which I assume will forever be changing, within which to experiment.

[freckafree]

Originally Posted by CalMeacham

Not all of them, of course. Americans call the light metal aluminum, but the British, with an (arguably) foolish love of consistency, call this aluminium. If you want to annoy them, ask them why they don't say platinium.

There is an interesting anecdote in the aforementioned Disappearing Spoon about aluminum vs. aluminium. Apparently the pronunciation was changed in the US to make it sound more like platinum, because before an economical method for smelting aluminum was developed, it was scarce and was being marketed as a luxury metal.

[Taomist]

Originally Posted by freckafree

There is an interesting anecdote in the aforementioned Disappearing Spoon about aluminum vs. aluminium. Apparently the pronunciation was changed in the US to make it sound more like platinum, because before an economical method for smelting aluminum was developed, it was scarce and was being marketed as a luxury metal.

Did not know that!
See, I love this place; you really DO learn something new every day!

[ElvisL1ves]

Originally Posted by Spoons

If Frink discovered anything, wouldn't it have to be called Glavinium?

I would have thought "Freunlavium".

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by njtt

Yes I have heard of the predicted "island of stability," but, of course, it is only stability relative to the elements leading up to it. The elements there will still be extremely short lived. Now, tell me what the practical or scientific significance of actually synthesizing any of them might be? What ramifications is it likely to have for the rest of science? Precious few, so far as I can see.

We won't know if we don't look. And according to the Wiki article some might have half lives in the order of millions of years.

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Yes, it's Latin. It comes from the names of metals and I think it just became tradition at some point.

Originally Posted by california jobcase

Here ya go-
http://wordinfo.info/units/index/I/page:6

Info says it's a metallic element suffix, but it's also in Helium (from Helios, meaning sun) which of course isn't a metal, tellurium, and germanium, which are metalloids. Sites I looked at say selenium's a nonmetal with borderline metalloid properties.

With the preceding exceptions, all elements ending in -ium are metals.

Originally Posted by CalMeacham

Not all of them, of course. Americans call the light metal aluminum, but the British, with an (arguably) foolish love of consistency, call this aluminium. If you want to annoy them, ask them why they don't say platinium.

Besides, there are plenty of elements that end in neither -ium or -um -- Nickel, Cobalt, Gold....

Originally Posted by freckafree

There is an interesting anecdote in the aforementioned Disappearing Spoon about aluminum vs. aluminium. Apparently the pronunciation was changed in the US to make it sound more like platinum, because before an economical method for smelting aluminum was developed, it was scarce and was being marketed as a luxury metal.

Now THAT'S what I love. Thanks!

[Napier]

Originally Posted by njtt

Yes I have heard of the predicted "island of stability," but, of course, it is only stability relative to the elements leading up to it. The elements there will still be extremely short lived. Now, tell me what the practical or scientific significance of actually synthesizing any of them might be? What ramifications is it likely to have for the rest of science? Precious few, so far as I can see.

What good is a baby?

Faraday said this to somebody who asked your question about a foolish and obscure thing he was experimenting with -- electricity. It's hard to know, is the problem, and our species has thrived by trying stuff,

[Chimera]

Hasselhofnium
Burtonium

Could work...

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Marley23

And more work for Tom Lehrer.

And there may be many others, but they haven't been discahvered.

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by njtt

Yes I have heard of the predicted "island of stability," but, of course, it is only stability relative to the elements leading up to it. The elements there will still be extremely short lived. Now, tell me what the practical or scientific significance of actually synthesizing any of them might be? What ramifications is it likely to have for the rest of science? Precious few, so far as I can see.

It would definitely be of value to be able to synthesize elements up through the proposed island of stability, enough to observe their properties. It would either confirm the theory about this island, or refute it. Either would be very important for nuclear physicists.

[Typo Knig]

Originally Posted by CalMeacham

Not all of them, of course. Americans call the light metal aluminum, but the British, with an (arguably) foolish love of consistency, call this aluminium. If you want to annoy them, ask them why they don't say platinium.



Besides, there are plenty of elements that end in neither -ium or -um -- Nickel, Cobalt, Gold....

As I recall Helium was discovered in the optical absorption lines in the Sun's visible spectrum before it was isolated on Earth. Naming an element discovered that way as "Sun Metal", from Helios & ium, is not so crazy. For consistency with the other Noble Gasses Helium should be renamed Helion. But who's going to change all the textbooks? Some hellion, I suppose ...

Several metallic elements were common enough in ancient times to have, and keep, their common names: iron, cobalt, copper, silver, gold, zinc, mercury. I'd have to look up how Tungsten ended up with a non "ium" name, but work calls.

[CalMeacham]

Originally Posted by Typo Knig

As I recall Helium was discovered in the optical absorption lines in the Sun's visible spectrum before it was isolated on Earth. Naming an element discovered that way as "Sun Metal", from Helios & ium, is not so crazy. For consistency with the other Noble Gasses Helium should be renamed Helion. But who's going to change all the textbooks? Some hellion, I suppose ...

Several metallic elements were common enough in ancient times to have, and keep, their common names: iron, cobalt, copper, silver, gold, zinc, mercury. I'd have to look up how Tungsten ended up with a non "ium" name, but work calls.

Tungsten is a great example, because it has an alternate name, Wolfram, wehich is even weirder. It's the German name, for the metal, as well, and it explains the element's abbreviation, W.

[Count Blucher]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

And there may be many others, but they haven't been discahvered.

Too much science & not enough piano...?

[Digital is the new Analog]

Originally Posted by CalMeacham

Besides, there are plenty of elements that end in neither -ium or -um -- Nickel, Cobalt, Gold....

Great. Now I'm allergic to this thread. Twice.
Stupid contact dermatitis.


-D/a

[Senegoid]

Originally Posted by njtt

Yes I have heard of the predicted "island of stability," but, of course, it is only stability relative to the elements leading up to it. The elements there will still be extremely short lived. Now, tell me what the practical or scientific significance of actually synthesizing any of them might be? What ramifications is it likely to have for the rest of science? Precious few, so far as I can see.

The scientists at Livermore would be interested in developing new materials with which to build longer-lasting lightbulbs.

[chrisk]

Originally Posted by suranyi

It would definitely be of value to be able to synthesize elements up through the proposed island of stability, enough to observe their properties. It would either confirm the theory about this island, or refute it. Either would be very important for nuclear physicists.

Yes, and if it does exist, being able to measure just how stable they are or aren't would help us refine our picture of nuclear structure and nuclear binding forces.

Not to mention being able to measure the physical characteristics (ie density, color, binding to other elements) if we make enough. Still on the 'what good is a newborn baby' level in that we can't come up with specific practical benefits, but I figure that enough physics 'newborn babies' have grown up to do really great things that we can give these ones some slack.

[pullin]

I think it's cool the way humans work. We like square, symmetrical things. We put together the periodic table but the existing elements left it lopsided. So we just started making the missing stuff to complete our table.

(I know there are other reasons, but I like that one. Go Scientists!)

[Typo Knig]

Making up missing stuff is the big success of Mendeleev's first periodic table: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mende...icted_elements

One could have asked at the time "What good are these predicted elements?" Gallium is used in compound semiconductors for the lasers in CD/DVD/Blu Ray players, for LED lights, and for the lasers used in fiberoptic communications all over rhe world.

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by california jobcase

Here ya go-
http://wordinfo.info/units/index/I/page:6

Info says it's a metallic element suffix, but it's also in Helium (from Helios, meaning sun) which of course isn't a metal, tellurium, and germanium, which are metalloids. Sites I looked at say selenium's a nonmetal with borderline metalloid properties.

With the preceding exceptions, all elements ending in -ium are metals.

Oh yeah? What about Geranium?

[Hari Seldon]

I had heard a totally different story (something about a botched trademark application) on "aluminum" vs. "aluminium" and the story above was new to me. So I googled it and immediately found: http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm. To summarize, Davy first chose "aluminum" and then changed. Both were used in the US until inexpensive refinement methods were found and after that the use of "aluminium" in the US declined and gradually disappeared until the ACS settled on "aluminum" in 1925. So it had nothing to do with "platinum" and nothing to do with a botched trademark application.

[Boyo Jim]

Until we fund a new, stable and non-toxic element for Tony Stark's power supply, the search must continue.

[freckafree]

Originally Posted by Hari Seldon

So it had nothing to do with "platinum" and nothing to do with a botched trademark application.

Here's the relevant passage from The Disappearing Spoon:

"When Charles Hall [who invented the process using electrical current to separate pure aluminum from compounds] applied for patents, he used the extra i, too. However, when advertising his shiny metal, Hall was looser with the spelling. There's debate about whether cutting the i was intentional or a fortuitous mistake, but when Hall saw 'aluminum,' he thought it was a brilliant coinage. He dropped the vowel permanently, and with it a syllable, which aligned his product with classy platinum."

The author notes that the Washington Monument was capped with aluminum in 1884 because, at that time, it was the most expensive metal in the world.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by njtt

Yes I have heard of the predicted "island of stability," but, of course, it is only stability relative to the elements leading up to it. The elements there will still be extremely short lived. Now, tell me what the practical or scientific significance of actually synthesizing any of them might be? What ramifications is it likely to have for the rest of science? Precious few, so far as I can see.

Well, for one thing, flerovium is going to be used a lot by beginning chemist students. Unfortunately, they'll be using it as a simple halogen.